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#3803 - 02/03/08 03:25 AM whats your opinion on the war?
markus Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 5
Loc: iraq (for now)
i was just curious to know what kind of opinion someone else might have on the war in iraq?
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#3805 - 02/03/08 09:02 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: markus]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I don't really have an opinion on it. Like it or not, we are at war. The history of warfare shows that wars end when one side wins. Iraq is not a war, it is just a battlefield in a much larger war. Leaving Iraq will not end the war.

All the same, what is your opinion? Given that you are serving there, I would think your opinion would be more relevant.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#3806 - 02/03/08 11:57 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
markus Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 5
Loc: iraq (for now)
My opinion is that you cant help people who cant help themselves, since that is what we are supposedly here to do its pointless.
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#3808 - 02/03/08 12:21 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: markus]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
My opinion is, that we went in there, either our government had false information about weapons of mass destruction, or they misled us, misinformation, making us believe that Sadam was a real threat.

When the government realized that it made a mistake, it attempted everything to try to justify us being there. “We are there to get a bad man.” Kind of attitude.

Well, we got the “bad man,” yet we are still there, because it would make us look bad, if we left that shit hole, without cleaning up the mess that we created.

So, now we are stuck in that shit hole of a country, attempting to bring order to a people, who either do not want demorcarcy, order, and civility, or as the general population goes, are too afraid to help themselves get it.

Either way, it’s a losing situation for us. We are getting thousands of our young people killed over there, while spending Billions of dollars.
Meanwhile, our own economy is turned to shit, people around the world have finally realized that our dollar is worth about five cents (which it costs to print it) and not much more, so other countries our opting for other investments.

It’s a good thing that our president has a direct line to god, who tells him what to do, or we would be really, really fucked.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#3810 - 02/03/08 01:12 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Asmedious]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
I believe that President Bush went to war in IRAQ to try to take control of the oil. Hes a man driven by oil but yet he wont admit it. They wanted the American people to think that Saddam had WMD's so he could go to war, they tried to say Iraq was the ones responsible for the 9/11 attacks when it was plain that Osama Bin Laden was.

They knew who it was but they didn't want to go after the real people because the ones that attacked us didn't have the oil Bush wanted to go after.

Bush thought he could go in and take over Iraq with hardly any effect due to his false claims that American armed forces are the strongest, but what he didn't count on was that Bin Laden was just as strong. So Bush's overnight war has turned into many years in IRAQ and many lives lost and Billions of dollars in debt.

Bush is and will be the worst President or any kind of leader for a very very long time. Id like to know what Jack Asses voted for Bush in the first place.

The Jerk off ran 2 oil companies that he was CEO of into Bankrupt, so what made these idiots who voted for him think that he could control the economy or OUR country?

Hopefully someone will come into office and take control of our own country, and our own people and stop worrying about the starving people in other countries and start feeding the starving ones in our own country.

Look at the homeless rate of the American people not considering all the ones that are losing there homes to foreclosures. The Government doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that we have starving people in our own backyard. Hell look how are Government treated the people in New Orleans. If that doesn't show you that the special interests are for foreigners then for the American people.

Look at how many illegals that come here from Mexico are taking care of, hell they get free health insurance,pay no taxes and our Government is wanting to give them legal citizenship with only a small fine. When the rest of us are paying out the ass in taxes and can never get ahead.

Theres just so much shit that went wrong after Bush took office and hes screwed it up so bad it will take 20 years to get it straightned out if were lucky.

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#3816 - 02/03/08 02:04 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: markus]
Sven Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
I think if we HAD to go to war Bush is probably the worst person to lead anyone into any war and now the cowboy obsessed president has created alot more problems for us then we started off.

Plus with this war we've gotten ourself involved in religious problems that has gone on for ages and you cannot be the "moderator" in religious wars, your either good or bad. I am interested to see which of our president hopefulls will actual try to pull us out of the war and how long it will take. As for the war right now we are in it and our "man of god" president's term is coming to a happy end. So Ammeracins have hope on the horizon. (I think that's how it would be spelled according Mr. Bush)


Yay, God bless us as we do his work killing thousands!

Its amazing what people will do, and let happen, for a so called "all loving god"


Edited by Sven (02/03/08 02:07 PM)
_________________________
A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
Marquis de Sade

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#3936 - 02/07/08 08:39 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
So where is this cache of oil everyone keeps claiming this war was really over? Why has the price of gas been going up month after month? Remember a few years ago when it was only $1.50? I ran nothing less than 93 octane in my mustang and it still cost me less then to fill it up than it does today to fill up my daily driver.

Bin Laden isn't a mighty force over there. It's the unknown enemy. You can't fight an enemy when you don't know how it is. Is that little girl on the corner with the backpack on her way to school, or is it packed with explosives waiting for our troops to approach and detonate? Wouldn't that make a great headline? "American troops kill 13 year old girl on way to school". It's the bombs on the side of the road being exploded remoted by cell phone as we pass. It's the "freedom fighters" from other countries being recruited and trained elsewhere coming in to make sure Iraq does not become influenced by the American swine.

The foreclosures are not a result of any government policy. They are the result of greedy bankers and CEOs looking to push their bottom line higher. They created the bogus and manipulative mortgages to qualify those that wouldn't otherwise qualify for a house. They lowered the income rate to put someone into a $500,000 house that was really only worth about $350,000 at best, knowing that that family could not afford it. It's was the American public that saw instant money. Knowing they could buy a house, do nothing to it but sit in it for a few months, and turn around and sell it within a week for a substantial profit. I was house shopping during the housing boom. I would be walking through a house and thinking about an offer, and it would have been already sold. Houses lasted a week on the market. I was smart and didn't buy some overpriced shithole with some wacky mortgage. I did it the right way, by being patient, researching, and insisting on a standard fixed rate mortgage. The way our parents did it.

"Bush is and will be the worst President or any kind of leader for a very very long time."

Recent history would suggest Nixon and Ford would hold claim to that title. That's a very broad brush you painted that statement with. I could name 20 leaders within the last 20 years whose record make Bush look like a saintly genius. If Hillary is elected President, wait and see what the next 10 years brings. I believe you will be dusting off some old "re-elect Bush" bumper stickers from 3 years ago.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#3953 - 02/08/08 10:14 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: fakepropht]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
The cache of Oil is still sitting over in Iraq being stock piled. Why do you think that this lame duck president wants to stay over in Iraq and help rebuild the place. It's because hes making a behind closed door deals with the Iraqi's with there oil.
Look how many times Bush said that the Iraqi Government was going to pay for the war for our troops to be over there helping them while at war? And I haven't seen any money toward the war at all.

Bush didn't go to war in Iraq to take on the taliban who was responsible for 9/11 but he did use the 9/11 tragedy to go after Saddam who didn't have anything to do with the war.

Bush has spent Trillions to fund the war in Iraq and is borrowing money each and every day from China to keep the war going...
America and China are the two biggest countries that relies on foreign oil and its odd that America has been there fighting and China is more then eager to lend U.S money. There both interested in keeping this war going and thats so they can claim all of the oil.
Bush is an oil tycoon and he was a CEO of two oil companies that he drove into bankrupt with mis management and over spending and that opened up the doors for more foreign oil to be brought in.

Bush and his goon squad have made billions themselves off of this war, Chaney had two of his companies over in IRAQ. Haliburton and Black water, And didn't have a contract bid to get the jobs they were hand picked to go over there by Bush & Chaney.

Look at how bad this war has been handled, not only the out of hand spending but the disappearance of billions in cash that the accountants cannot find anywhere and the Bush Admin will not answer on where the money is. They claimed money was spent on new equipment for the troops and we found out the troops had old ass equipment and trucks from the 1980's hell they even sent troops into battle with no armor because they didn't get the money that was sent over there for them.

Id like for you to tell me of another President who is as bad as this Prick is. What other president came into office with a surplus and within 2 years spent all that money and now is in the trillions in debt. Not only that but he is still going to be racking up the debt for 10 more months... Bush is planning on staying in Iraq for many years to come no matter what the cost is to the American people. Its already stated at this point in time every kid being born is coming into the world with over $30,000 in debt due to this president's over spending...
Nixon and Ford was saints compared to the turmoil Bush has brought to the table.
Bush has lied, he used illegal wire taps on the American people, hes stole money, he put all his buddies in office to save his own ass. He hand selected the new Supreme Court Lawyers so he could get away with all the bad things hes done. He gave his good friend scooter libby a free pass out of jail and a clean record for not ratting him out.

What other president was in office to where oil companies have made profits of over 40 billion??????????
Oil companies have made more profits since Bush has been in office then with all the other Presidents combined....



Well to the Housing question, the Government could step in and do something about all the greedy mortgage lenders but they were collecting a lot of tax revenue off of the Greedy brokers and they didn't want to do anything about it and that was to keep funding this ridiculous war. So in a big way they too are responsible for the housing market crash.

You don't see the people who got FHA or any other Government home loan that are going into foreclosures do you? Thats because they control they way the money is handled. What needs to happen is stop allowing private companies to step in and lend money and make such huge profits off of it.

The way the president has allowed big business to run has been like legalized extortion. I know when president Clinton was in office everyone had money in there pockets and business were all doing good and keeping jobs in America. Since Bush everything has went to hell in a handbag. Go around and look at how many jobs has left to go overseas. Look how many people lost there jobs to foreign workers. Don't sit on your ass and watch TV to see whats really going on, go on a road trip cross country and talk to the people thats been effected and see first hand how fucked up Bush has ruined this country.
I own 3 businesses and I see first hand how bad is got over the past several years. People just don't have the money they used to have thanks to Bush's heavy spending and allowing oil companies to make huge billions in profit. Bush has brought this country into a depression even though he won't admit it, but the people in the real world and not the ones on TV saying only what there told to say, knows that its been in a depression and the worst is yet to come.

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#3995 - 02/09/08 11:16 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Man, at his core, is a selfish opportunists. Never look for grand conspiracies when simple incompetence, fear, basic human nature, and self righteous do-gooderism can easily explain the situation. All parties involved are trying to advance their own agenda. The war is out of the control of any one person or group. It's like a riot where all of the looters are just trying to get their little cut before peace is restored. There is no 'good' side or 'bad' side. For better or for worse it is only 'us' and 'them' as it has always been in the entire history of armed conflict.

The nature of conflict is to force people to take sides. The only real question is 'are you with us or against us?'

When walking down the street in 130 degree heat wearing 80lbs of kit surrounded be people who would like to see you dead, I personally have no problem knowing who's side I am on and what I am doing there.

Maybe it's a matter of perspective?

Check your perspective and get back to me....
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#3997 - 02/09/08 11:45 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Well I for one would not be willing to go into war to fight for this President and I bet 99% of the troops doesn't like being there. The troops were sold on a false war, the were told that Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction and was going to try to use them on us. All of that information turned out to be B.S.

I have several friends who went to fight in IRAQ and none of them agrees with this war and there NOT allowed to express there real opinions about the war and about the President...

If they come out and say what they really think they will be court Marshalled. Hell most of the troops don't even know what there even fighting for. One of my friends told us the war was never in the U.S control and the way it's been going it never will be under control.

I don't think we should have went to war with IRAQ because there was no reason for it. IRAQ was never a threat to us except they had a huge amount of oil that greedy ass George Bush wants to get his hands on at any cost.
Hes cost a many troops there lives and so many are coming back home with missing arms,legs, and where the hell is our Government for them.

The Government is trying to squeeze there way out of not taking care of the troops, who wouldn't need to be taking care of if not sent to a false war in the first place. I have a friend who lost both legs in the war a couple years ago and his still fighting to get money from the Government to help take care of him since his lost his legs for this country over this war.

I say this to all who agree with the war, How about you take your asses over there and help do the fighting because "standing behind the troops" to show your support of the war isn't doing shit for the men and women who are dying and loosing there limbs everyday.

It will hit you then that you might give up your life fighting for a false cause and know that the Government is only behind you when your on the front line and when you get hurt they will throw you off to the side like a piece of meat.

The side that I'm on is to not let our men and women get killed for nothing.

Ask yourself if you would give up your life to make Bush and his buddies RICHER and then not have your family taking care of after your gone or worse, have your legs blown off and they ship you off to a moldy sewer of a shit hole Veterans Hospital and forget about you because that is the REAL LIFE of this war.............

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#4001 - 02/09/08 02:22 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Perhaps you don't know my resume?

I volunteered to go to Iraq. The Army had other ideas and sent me to the 'little war' in Afghanistan.

We have an all volunteer force. No one is forced to be here. At the end of your contract you are free to leave. This war has been going on for almost 7 years. Any new kid entering service has grown up with this war. I hope no one has any illusions. All the same, most soldiers in Iraq never fight anyone. Few leave the safety of the Green Zone. Their service, while necessary is really more like a civil service job than what most people think war must be like. The whole PTSD thing is wildly overblown by the media who is desirous to make every vet seem like he is messed up.

Our society is not set up to venerate warriors and does not understand how to deal with them. It is not the soldier who is sick, it is society. If I could do things my way we would have a warrior cult more like the Samurai or Knights Templar. A force of true warriors who live for war and disdain the idleness of peace.

And oh... if only we really were fighting this war the way it needs to be fought - think violence on biblical scale!

You see, Iraq is only a front on a larger war with Fundamentalist Islam. This war will look more like the Cold War. It will be a multi-generational war. What we really need is Final Solution to the Muslim Problem.

Now go back to your couch, open a bag of chips, turn on CNN and continue to be a spectator. Just get out of the way and let the adults save Western Civilization...
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#4002 - 02/09/08 02:36 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
From your resume I can see you never went to battle in IRAQ!!! I don't go by whats on TV or by what the Government tries to sell the American people about whats going on, because all they do is give false information about whats really going on.

I have went with my friend to the Veterans Hospital to where he goes for physical therapy and I have seen, heard and spoke to the young kids who had there legs,arms, and parts of there face blown off.

I don't need to go by whats reported on TV because I spent many hours with friends and people who were injured in the war to know what really went on and what they think about the war.

And if your so concerned about winning the war then why don't you sign up to go to war and not just "volunteer" then maybe you might get shipped to a real war instead sent to the safe haven over in Afghanistan were you sit and play cards all day while the real soldiers are getting mauled.

What right is it for the U.S. to be there fighting and trying to help the IRAQ people anyway? Why isn't any other country standing in line to send there troops over there to fight. China is willing to lend the U.S trillions of dollars but there not sending any of there troops over there to fight. It seems every other country knows this is a lost cause except George Bush and the RETARDS who follow him with his stay the course at all cost mentality.....

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#4003 - 02/09/08 02:42 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Don't worry about what you see on TV and how bad you think they blow it out of proportion. Go around to the Veteran's Hospitals and talk to the people who have the wounds to prove whats going on with the war. I can tell you TV isn't going to bring to light whats really going on because the Government puts a stop to the real shit thats going on.

They don't want everyone to know the truths and consequences of this false war.... They want it to look like we have control and we have the Taliban on the run. But if the U.S armed forces had things under control then we wouldn't be going into the 8th year of war that was said to be only a few months old.....

Why should kids who are now being born come into this world already $30,000 in debt???? What do you think this war has accomplished besides being trillions in debt and lost of lives to thousands?

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#4010 - 02/09/08 05:50 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Oh brother...

Ok, for the record, since you don't know, I joined the Army in 1988 and my first unit was the 82nd Airborne. I served in the first Gulf War in 91 (that was in Iraq by the way). I have served in a few other third world shit holes under Clinton, most notably, Hati and Bosnia. Believe it or not the Army sends you where they think they need you - not where you want to go. This ain't BK and you don't get it your way.

All the same, what do you know about Afghanistan? You must have access to better info than I do. Since I am near Ft. Meade maybe I can come visit you at the NSA? Even a simple search of Google News will show that things have not been going well in Afghanistan. 2006 (the year I was there) was the bloodiest year on record since the initial invasion. But of course you knew that. Sadly, most Americans are horribly misinformed and when Afghanistan and Pakistan really start to unravel it will seem like a bolt out of the blue.

If you are so worried about this war being in it's 8th year then why don't you and people like you get out of the way and let us win it. Don't question our methods. Don't be outraged. Attila the Hun had the place on lock down in 20 minutes plus commercials and the Huns ruled it for 200 years. Hell, this is the longest stable govt Afghanistan ever had. Of course, our, or should I say 'your' Judeo-Christian beliefs would not permit that sort of thing. And again, you are missing the point, Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and NYC are merely battle grounds in a larger war. We are at war with Fundamentalist Islam. Why is that so hard to understand?

Yes, no shit, you might face death or dismemberment in war. Well, golly gee when did this start happening? To the great credit of the American fighting man, the last thing he wants is to be a martyr on TV doing the 'poor pitiful me' shtick. In general we are Stoics and we know when we are getting played. The media has pretty much stopped interviewing vets because the vast majority of vets are not giving them the narrative that the media wants told. Most vets have an attitude of 'adapt and overcome' because your average vet is not a whinny quitter. Your average vet can't stand the 'Hajis' and has no tolerance for Islam and it's nonsense. The PC media does not want to an interview with a guy who will basically say "fuck 'em, shoot 'em in the face."

The worst thing we can do it to tell these guys that they are messed up. The more they hear that, the more likely they are to start believing it. Read "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. What these vets need are acceptance and admiration. Not some crap about how the 'govt messed you up, man' and 'you got sold out, man.' That was what fucked up the Viet Nam vets. So fuck you hippy!

Let me make it clear for you. It is ok to hate. It is ok to kill. In war, you are not fighting for God or country or apple pie or any of that other bullshit. You are fighting for the guy on the left and right of you and don't give them anything less.

Now, print this page, take to the VA hospital and ask some real vets of this current war what they think.

Now que the music....
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#4015 - 02/09/08 07:18 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Desert Storm was started by Bush Sr to try to take control of the oil flow from Saddam and that war was a failure and now Bush Jr is trying to follow in his dads footsteps and has messed up miserably and at the cost of trillions in debt.

And we still have people like you to stay the course, keep racking up the debt and why the hell not you won't be paying for it. The kids who are being born now will have that burden to carry.

The first Iraqi war wasn't as bad as this war mainly due to all the air strikes and chemical warfare. I had friends who fought in that war and a couple are back for the second IRAQ war. And they say they would prefer to be back fighting in Desert Storm because there was less likely of taking a hit.

This war there looking over there shoulder everywhere they go and worrying is the next person they encounter isn't strapped with a bomb. They say they were told this war was going to be an in and out mission and it should be under control in 3-6 months. Well its been almost 8 years later and it hasn't been under control yet.


If I printed this page and took it to the VETS they would want to bring it to you and shove it up your ass

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#4017 - 02/09/08 07:48 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
You must know a different group of vets than I do.

I am going to call bullshit.

Ask them this:

MOS, unit, FOB, what rotation with dates from - to.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#4018 - 02/09/08 08:52 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Judging from your responses, you know nothing about the military besides what you are told. I too am a veteran. A disabled veteran. I collect a monthly payment from the US Government. I am a member of the American Legion and Veterans of Foriegn Wars. I served during Desert Storm. If you printed this page and took to our local American Legion hall, 300 members would take you into a back room and beat you silly. To echo what Fist said, the military is an all volunteer force. If you go into it thinking you won't have to go to war, you are and idiot. While you may not personally support the reason behind the war, you took an oath to die for your country as a warrior. That is the number one reason of the military. It isn't to get an education, see different countries, or meet new people.

By the way, when is Bush going to release this "cache" of oil he is stockpiling? He only has 11 months left in office. Or is he secretly shipping it to China? Perhaps he is stockpiling here so the next president can release it? Not hardly, since that would make that president look pretty swell to the American public.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#4020 - 02/09/08 09:57 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: fakepropht]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Yes, really. I have a Dodge Magnum with Hemi that takes 89 octane and up. If only this were a war for oil. Now that is cause I can get behind! Fuck ideology, I want my cheap gas.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#4033 - 02/10/08 11:13 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Your right I'm going off what a disabled Vet who lost both legs in the IRAQ war and who has been in and out the VA hospital for over a year and has been fighting to get benefits for a YR. Who keeps getting the run around about his benefits. So your correct I am going off what people who have been injured in the war not just the ones who served in it.

My father served in the Korean war and was injured in that war after serving 2 years on the front line and having the purple heart for bravery. And he served this country and in return the Government gave him a whopping $800 dollars a month and when he died they sent us a check for $225 and a tombstone.... WhooHooo..

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#4035 - 02/10/08 11:35 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Plus I'm man enough to admit that I am going off of what friends who served told me, I don't know about the Military as well as both of you because I never served as you both have. If I got false information and your saying I'm wrong then I'm not going to get pissed off about it.

Whats going on with the war is out of mine and everyone else's control anyway. The oil and gas prices are out of my control, the huge deficit is way out of my control so I figure why waste my energy ranting about the issues anyway when no matter what I say it will never change the fact....

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#4047 - 02/10/08 04:46 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
Firstly, i am glad I am not being shot at
My drop is off since this disaster began.
we lost it in the boardrooms
armed conflict is an afterthought
and not a particularly good idea
big business likes Dubai
no taxes, free education and health care
The "good old days"
were never really that good, anyway.

My honest opinion?
If I was an arms dealer, I'd be ecstatic.
body armour is a big ticket item

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#4218 - 02/13/08 11:49 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: markus]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
War is necessary.

Unfortunately at the moment we're caught between a rock and a hard place. The situation overseas (especially Helmand, Mosul and Fallujah) has been increasing with hostility for quite some time now. My last vacation landed me in the thick of it, but things are slowly improving through the use of communication. Fatalities are down, violence levels have dropped dramatically, but the hostility is still there - and is increasing daily especially since the Israeli Strike Force Attacks on Gaza, and the recent assassination of Bhutto, as well as the recent killing of 2 senior Hezbollah Commanders.

The war isn't pointless; its intention was not an invasion of Iraq - it's a security and installation operation. Same with OP Catalyst and OP Slipper; both are there as part of the Reconstruction Forces (this is the ADF, by the way) however the United States Marine Corps is more in the 'glass-house' effect of the recent hostility increase. The objective is to unite the Government, train the Iraqi Army, eliminate and/or capture any and all potential threats that pose a national security threat to the new installation of the Iraqi Government and restore Law and Order.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4461 - 02/22/08 03:24 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: markus]
delusion Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 77
Loc: hawaii
 Quote:
What these vets need are acceptance and admiration.


I don't have a real opinion on this war. War is constant and is part of what it is to be human on some level or another. We are at war with ourselves, with each other and of course, fundamentalist Islam.. It’s all the same.

What I do have an opinion about is the way that the soldiers are almost totally ignored by our citizens. Aside from immediate family no one really gives a shit about the soldiers or their plight.

Did anyone get the Red Friday thing? Some guy in an airport shared a moving experience with some other travelers and decided to try to get everyone into red Fridays, i.e. wear red to support the troops.

Lasted for about a week...

It just seems like no one gives a shit about these guys and gals in green. What Fist said is true that once in the shit all you are really fighting for is the guy next to you. However in the beginning they make the decision (whether youthfully or not) to go out and fight and or die for this countries agenda but soon find that they are forgotten faster then some 90's rap song. Why is that?

Maybe because the soldiers reality is serious and painful to actually think about. Certainly more painful then putting your energy into forming an opinion about Brittany spears' decline. It is less painful to get enthralled by the new season of Grey's anatomy then it is to empathize with a soldier.

I think it is kind of sad that thousands of Americans know the names and stats of their favorite ball player(s) but have no clue the names or sacrifices of the enlisted men and women. After going through all of that it's like they almost don't exist in this society, even after all of that sacrifice.

Are sports figures the new warrior to be held above our shoulders and praised? That very well may be.

So to tie all of this together my thoughts on the war are that it is extremely interesting that these soldiers get no more admiration then a carpenter might, or a lawyer. The desensitized American public can barely muster then interest in these men and women to look up from their feet as they trod off to work.
Those unhappy with the current war take their poor understanding of it out on the soldier because they lack the balls or ability to voice their opinions to those who are truly directing this thing. Leaving only the soldier's family members to adore them for their efforts.

Like those adherents to "Satanism" I think America is a little confused about "who" it is and for that we all suffer. My feelings about the war are feelings of sadness that in the end the American soldier is just another channel to be flipped through on the way to less painful programming.

Click.

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#4465 - 02/22/08 05:13 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: delusion]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Don't cry for me Argentina...

The true warrior live for war - until there is only peace and death.

The empire is sustained by the flow of 'the spice' and the spice must flow.

Civilization is a system based on human specialization. Each of us does a specific job for another so that they can be free to do a specific job for us. For all of anyone's anti-war nonsense, I have yet to find the dirty-hippy-protester who is truly willing to disconnect from modern life and live with the Amish. Rather, they are quite happy to enjoy the fruits of this horrible society and simply complain about it's wickedness. All the while, they claim a halo for their dishonesty.

Clausewitz quite accurately points out that war is simply politics by other means. Others would say that war is the result of failed politics. Regardless, it is the politician that causes war. In our society politicians are elected by the people, ergo, it is the people themselves who are responsible for war. The fact of the matter is that people want to know no more about war, and the politics that lead us there, than they want to know about the inner workings of a slaughter house as they down their second bacon double cheeseburger.

It's your war kids! You bought it. We are just the guys working on the factory floor of the slaughter house.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#4548 - 02/26/08 05:53 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Crocell Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Mid-West
2 things.

Number 1: We're (The United States) in the Middle East from now on, or at least the next several generations. Our children's children and their grandchildren will be over there.

Let's make no mistake about that.

Number 2: The United States did a good thing over all by ridding the world of Saddam Hussein. Sure, some say The US put him in power, well...whatever. The fact of the matter is, is that when his neck went SNAP, that was a good thing.
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#4549 - 02/26/08 06:01 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Crocell]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: Crocell
2 things.

Number 1: We're (The United States) in the Middle East from now on, or at least the next several generations. Our children's children and their grandchildren will be over there.

Let's make no mistake about that.

Number 2: The United States did a good thing over all by ridding the world of Saddam Hussein. Sure, some say The US put him in power, well...whatever. The fact of the matter is, is that when his neck went SNAP, that was a good thing.


I'd like to know how the execution of Saddam Hussein was a good thing - all it did was increase the violence. There'll be another to take his place in the near future.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4555 - 02/26/08 01:10 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Jeseth Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 91
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: Fist
Regardless, it is the politician that causes war. In our society politicians are elected by the people, ergo, it is the people themselves who are responsible for war.

We could argue all day as to the legitimacy of modern elections in the United States though, don't you think?

My opinion on the war, is that it's pointless. "Live and let die." So lets let the Middle East die. I don't want a single damn cent of my tax money spent on anything there, unless it's dirty, smutty magazines and copies of The Satanic Bible that we can rain down from the sky to help corrupt the minds of their children. They were doing a damn fine job of killing each other before the United States stepped in. They'll continue to do a fine job of it when the United States steps out.
_________________________
"Life is of no value but as it brings us gratifications."
— Thomas Jefferson

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#4558 - 02/26/08 02:24 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Jeseth]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
My opinion on the war in Iraq? Absolutely pointless. Let the fuckers sort themselves out. They've become so used to living under a dictatorship that they don't know any different. They should have left well alone in the first place, but as we all know, Bush wanted his precious oil.

Since Saddam's been taken out though, they won't be able to send any nukes at us all, even if they had them in the first place.
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#4573 - 02/27/08 07:13 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
Im still not quite shure what the point of it is but even if its rediculas i think more time should have been spent on a stratagy.
The one thing i have strong views on are the opium farmers in iraq.There civilians and there only source of income are those feilds.Destroying them will make the farmers go to the taliban for support.Buying the crops from the farmers and using it for medical poropses,perhaps methadone treatments ect,will loosen the grip of the taliban in those areas and they will lose the support of the civilians making it much easier for American and British forces to keep control of the towns and rural areas.

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#4581 - 02/27/08 01:02 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Rossums]
delusion Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 77
Loc: hawaii
That is an interesting perspective that i had not thought of. what I like about that thought process is that its roots are based on a semi positive way to lessen the pull toward picking up a gun. Rather then the very generic point of view "Kill them all!"

I wonder what the military's point of view is on all of the heroin over there?

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#4582 - 02/27/08 01:16 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: delusion]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
i think the military's point of view will be lagging to say the least as there train of thought will have to smash through a vail of opiates moahaha.I likes that joke i made just then
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#4586 - 02/27/08 02:25 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Rossums]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
 Originally Posted By: Rossums
Im still not quite shure what the point of it is but even if its rediculas i think more time should have been spent on a stratagy.
The one thing i have strong views on are the opium farmers in iraq.There civilians and there only source of income are those feilds.Destroying them will make the farmers go to the taliban for support.Buying the crops from the farmers and using it for medical poropses,perhaps methadone treatments ect,will loosen the grip of the taliban in those areas and they will lose the support of the civilians making it much easier for American and British forces to keep control of the towns and rural areas.


You are a fucking genius. Why the hell did I not think of the whole strategy element of war?

And then there is the whole opium issue you've pointed out. Absolutely amazing you are.
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#4607 - 02/28/08 06:19 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: DistroyA]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Well, we can see how well opium is doing over in Afghanistan, where, despite the government's best efforts to exterminate this kind of farming, it still remains the world's largest opium exporter in the world. Afghanistan is still war torn, still has the Taliban, still poor, and is still generally fucked. Starting up poppy fields in Iraq isn't going to change anything there, and will just create drugged-up insurgents who are already high on Allah. They need to grow WEED, not poppies
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Nothing is sacred.

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#4612 - 02/28/08 12:05 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Nemesis]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
i got all mixed up >_< i wasnt thinking of iraq and afghanistan as two different wars when i though of that idea.Silly me \:\( Yes stop burning Afghanistan crops yes that will do
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#4615 - 02/28/08 12:47 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Rossums]
Jeseth Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 91
Loc: California
They need to stop burning crops, and start burning people.

No, I'm joking... but seriously, your idea seems sound, in regard to Afghanistan. I'm surprised that it hasn't been considered before. The only thing that I wonder is, would it really negate some of the Taliban's influence? I was under the impression that they mostly used religion to keep their territories in line, rather than economics.
_________________________
"Life is of no value but as it brings us gratifications."
— Thomas Jefferson

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#4619 - 02/28/08 01:28 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Jeseth]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
I saw a documentry on the box of moving images that was about this lil british man that went to afghanistan to eat and cook.He went to all the little vilages and stuff,the villages all have a leader and that decides what they should do.the british guy went with his camera crew to eat a meal with the leader of this village and some other fellows from there neighborhood.The it came up in conversation that the leader used to be a general in the taliban then the lil british dude got all frightend.the leader then explained it was in there best intrests to be involved with the taliban at that time but now that americans have moved in on this area its in our best intrests to welcome them.Basicaly they do whats best for there village and if our goverments offerd to buy there crops i think that the leader would decide not to oppose our troops moving in when they need to because the money from these crops goes to these villages.
Although im shure there will be some of the village leaders that are just crackpots so the buying crops lark wont work in every case

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#4701 - 03/02/08 11:03 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Rossums]
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
Hope it's not too late for my 2 cents. Here it goes:

Vice President Dick Cheney had a major interest in the company Halliburton (To what degree the interest lies is unknown.). Kellogg, Brown, and Root (A subsidiary of Halliburton) is responsible for providing various services to the military deployed overseas.

When Hussein was playing around with the UN inspectors in late 2002, Bush took it personal because he thought about the vendetta between Saddam and senior Bush and how Hussein mocked him in the past. Cheney puts a bug in Dubya's ear, saying "Hey, why not? Let's go after Saddam, KBR/Halliburton will "somehow" beat all these other contractors' bids (Wink, wink) to service the military and everyone (You and me) is happy. What do you think?" So Bush holds a brainstorm session and comes up with the idea that Saddam and the Al-Quaida are in cahoots - which we all know now doesn't really hold water because the Sunnis' (Saddam's religion) and the Al-Quaida's philosophies really don't mix. Hence, the war in Iraq - which was massed together with the war in Afghanistan and called "Operation Enduring Freedom" and then "Gulf War II" and then finally "Operation Iraqi Freedom". Oh and of course Iraq has WMD's. Funny how North Korea boasted that they had WMD's and challenged the US to come and do something about it.

Not that all it bothered me too much when I was there. I volunteered for military service years ago and this day had to come eventually. I didn't go blasting Iraqis in the name of God and country. I did it for self-preservation and to look out for my buddies as they would for me.

It was surreal. I started in Kuwait, where you see the soldiers and border police drinking tea with their boots off and showing off the latest cell phone technology to the Allied troops. Then you cross the border ("Crossing the berm" or "going north") and it's a different world. Bunch of barefooted kids begging you to throw them food and the hardened looks on the faces of the adults. Iraqis and Kuwaitis are from the same ancestry and look alike but the hardened looks is how you can tell one from the other. In Iraq, they smile and wave but they shoot at your convoy at night. A few of them hated Saddam, but were pissed off that the jobs were gone and the electricity was off when the Allied invasion began which added even more to the number taking potshots at us.

Iraq is not your grandfather's battlefield. The enemies were anywhere and everywhere. Even people that are the United States' allies on paper were shooting at us. I can accept that war is part of human existence, but they really should have thought of this from a logistical standpoint more than just sugarcoating it to make it more acceptable to the American people.

Unfortunately, this war is only benefitting a few Americans at most while there's nothing in it for everybody else. So, I pretty much feel dumb for helping to line someone else's pockets up. Like Fist said, it would've at least been nice to feel the difference at the pump. That in itself would've made it worth it.


Edited by Sinistar (03/02/08 11:06 AM)
Edit Reason: To make pretty
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#4774 - 03/05/08 12:15 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: markus]
ballbreaker Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Yes, I really have to second Fist here. "Cry havoc and blablabla". I have this funny feeling that if the military was given the power to decide the course of the war and how it would be fought some of the quagmires we're stuck in would have been avoided, or could be solved. Violence on a biblical scale is right...the Axis in WWII didn't surrender because we took account of their cultural differences and stopped to ask ourselves why they might be so miserable and frustrated, and whether it was "our fault" they were on a rampage.

Well the Germans can't really help themselves...they just have a distinct culture that we need to take account of and respect. Let's have a dialogue of civilizations rather than a clash. Besides, we should really only be blaming ourselves for their violent excess anyways...Paris Peace Conference anyone?

Silly? Outlandish?

Yet this is the standard argument meant to hold back Western Civilization from turning the world's biggest sandboxes into the world's biggest blast craters...

If the rest of NATO could pull its ungrateful weight, that would be welcome too.

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#5916 - 03/19/08 10:30 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
DeathIsWicked Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 14
Loc: Peyton, Colorado
Well, I just want it to end soon because I'm going into the United States Air Force and I really don't wanna go over there. Seeing the soldiers coming home after tours in Iraq makes me very happy.
_________________________
The Devil's Advocate.
Joy of Satan Minitries.

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#5925 - 03/19/08 02:25 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: DeathIsWicked]
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
Truthfully, the Air Force is better than the other military branches when it comes to living conditions. Even in the most underdeveloped "Green Zones" of Iraq, the Air Force always gets their computers, television, washing machines, and air conditioning.

PM me if you've got any questions about Iraq or the military in general there, flyboy.
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#5936 - 03/19/08 05:36 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Sinistar]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Strangely, the military does not exist as jobs program. From time to time you may actually have to do something dangerous. We are a nation at war. If you don't want to go to war, I would recommend a job at McDonalds. I am pretty sure they are hiring.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#5985 - 03/20/08 07:47 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
I think you meant to refer to the young man, Fist. I've paid my dues just as you did fellow veteran. Today is the 5 year anniversary that my unit first went "wheels up" straight to Iraq.

Death is Wicked - With the exception of the Marine Corps, you could pretty much get any job you want as long as you receive the required GT score (I can't recall right now what GT stands for, but it's almost the equivalent of an IQ test).
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#6016 - 03/20/08 03:09 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Sinistar]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
When you use Quick Reply at the bottom of the page it automatically refers to the next post. Sorry about the confusion.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#6301 - 03/24/08 10:44 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
No problem, Fist.

Also, besides the Halliburton/KBR conspiracy in Iraq and Afghanistan, companies that make the various wonderful vaccinations stand to make ridiculous amounts of money as well.

To me, the conspiracy is not the Illuminati, the Masons, etc. It's the pharmaceutical companies in bed with our fearless leaders.

Don't even get me started on the USDA, the cattle ranchers and the beef recall.

I apologize for going on a bit, but the topics I discussed just seem to flow into one another.



Edited by Sinistar (03/24/08 10:48 AM)
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