#38043 - 04/23/10 08:50 PM
Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
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Cutter19
lurker
Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 3
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iv done a decent bit of research and have noticed quite a few similarities between these two philosophies. I myself am a nihilist and just wanted some outside word on how similar or different they are. any info at all will be greatly appreciated, thanks much people. =)
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#38050 - 04/23/10 10:57 PM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: felixgarnet]
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Cutter19
lurker
Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 3
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well thank you meg for actually replying with some info. as to you others, why bother replying if you have criticism about my post? if you dont want to offer up some knowledge about the question i asked save both of us time and dont say anything at all.
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#38175 - 04/29/10 03:32 AM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: William Wright]
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Doomsage680
member
Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 109
Loc: NJ, USA
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"Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is the philosophical doctrine suggesting the negation of one or more meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism which argues that life[1] is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism can also take epistemological, metaphysical, or ontological forms, meaning respectively that in some aspect knowledge is not possible or that contrary to our belief, some aspect of reality does not exist as such."
It also accompanies/is associated with a state of despair.
I think that as a Satanist it still makes sense to say that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.
Nietzsche- "it is only when nihilism is overcome that a culture can have a true foundation upon which to thrive."
It seems to me that once one realizes there is no objective or inherent meaning to life, one can then place one's own goals as the highest and most meaningful.
It also seems to imply that once a culture abandons its false values, and acknowledges it, that it can move ahead much more rationally and intelligently. I don't think a society will ever fully admit that all of it's values, or at least, its most sacred ones, are meaningless. It might have periods of that realization, but people grasp for meaning too much to take the time to embrace nothingness and create from it their own vision. It will always be for independent minds to forge and manifest their own reality.
_________________________
"I who have nothing but the comfort of my sins"
- Vinny Paz
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#38186 - 04/29/10 03:44 PM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: TheInsane]
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Cutter19
lurker
Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 3
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wow, thanks for all of the responses. and to william wright, to me, nihilism is mostly as people put it, but minus the destruction and despair. maybe by definition thats what it is supposed to imply, but i have just recently come about being a nihilist, perhaps my beliefs differ to the point im technically not one, but in a nutshell. i understand that all meaning and values are subjective, that nothing man made truly matters in the grand scheme of things, because there is no grand scheme of things, if there is there is no proof which to believe so would lead to faith which i stray from. to me, the point of life is there is no point but to live it, right and wrong, good and evil, are objectively meaningless ideas. though i am not evil, obviously i have a subjective preference towards good most of the time, im far from a zealot, but i feel my sense of good is stronger than many peoples due to that fact, i am a generally good person because i like to be, not because i think ill get anything out of it or because some higher power commands it of me. and on Satanism, iv read the Satanic Bible and watched the documentary, i know quite a bit about it and nihilism, i just posted this to get a little extra insight, see if others view them the same as i do. but what i pretty much see it as, is that Satanism is the happy form of nihilism lol, you understand nothing has meaning so you attach your own to everything in the way that best suits you and makes your life enjoyable. let me know if you have any postivie or negative input on all of this. peace people
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#38703 - 05/20/10 03:57 PM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: 111Cal]
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Dimitri
veteran member
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 1357
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It depends on what type of Satanist you are. A theistic Satanist will hold vastly different views than an atheistic one.
It seems to me that the statement you made is a quite obvious one.
What view does a theistic satanist has in comparence with a Atheistic Satanist concerning the view/idea of nihilism in Satanism?
Care to highlight that part, instead of spewing around obvious statements without consideration?
Edited by Dimitri (05/20/10 03:58 PM)
_________________________
You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
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#41292 - 08/02/10 03:50 PM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: Dan_Dread]
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SODOMIZER
pledge
Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 61
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Nihilism=there is no meaning Satanism=meaning is subjective.
I would amend that to:
Nihilism = there is no inherent meaning
As the statement "there is no meaning" itself has meaning, just not derived from an absolute source.
I think this article summarizes nihilist morality well:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/23/opinion/23brooks.html
In other words, instead of finding morality in God (Christianity) or social factors (liberalism), morality is found in adaptation to reality.
Nihilism is not reality-denying; it seems to me that it denies human perceptions of reality and points instead to a hardline scientific view of the world.
_________________________
SC / O9A
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#41360 - 08/03/10 07:27 AM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: SODOMIZER]
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Diavolo
Moderator
stalker
Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 3780
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What I think you are forgetting in this is that the hard-line scientific view is a product of human perception or an extension of it.
I too am of the opinion that essentially there is no inherent meaning, or at the very least, that if there is, it is beyond us. Something which is identical to it not being there. The ontological reality is beyond us, partly because our natural reality is a product of our biology. As such, even nihilism is a perspective which might be limited by a non-understanding of the very ontological reality itself.
The difference between Satanism and nihilism is that Satanism escapes the rather stagnating effects of nihilism by creating its own perspective and accepting that as the most functional one for the satanist involved. What works best for me, is best for me.
D.
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#41362 - 08/03/10 09:05 AM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: Diavolo]
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SODOMIZER
pledge
Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 61
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What I think you are forgetting in this is that the hard-line scientific view is a product of human perception or an extension of it.
I too am of the opinion that essentially there is no inherent meaning, or at the very least, that if there is, it is beyond us. Something which is identical to it not being there. The ontological reality is beyond us, partly because our natural reality is a product of our biology. As such, even nihilism is a perspective which might be limited by a non-understanding of the very ontological reality itself.
I think this limitation is overstated. Science is perception of the world; so is human thought. If our perceptions correspond roughly to what's going on in the world, that's enough; nihilism, like Satanism, is a return from anthrocentric moral judgments to a morality of survival, supremacy and evolution -- a form of Social Darwinism.
_________________________
SC / O9A
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#49812 - 02/26/11 04:38 AM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: SODOMIZER]
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Hegesias
active member
Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 702
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I am in the woods and working on my laptop.
I am not sure if anyone will come back to this thread but all comes back to nihilism. All the rest of my work is nihilistic so i thought I'd write what I can see today.
Reality. The atmosphere and climate of this deserted prison is always here. Sky is grey smoke that my eyes cannot stand, The water in my mouth is acidic and bitter. The air on my skin is this dull static. Hard. Cold.. Sobering. Severe. I see inmates who were once here are trying to climb back in over the walls to breath again the air of this place. This hideous reality that is the only one where you are awake. The feelings and thoughts are real and unpleasant, paranoia, hypervigilance, quickening dark mental activity and yet internal dialogue is but a few echoes, nothing more, yet so clear. This is not a peaceful place! There is no shape to this abyss? so what is this so clear in nature that glares into my eyes unseen!
Pure drives, pure impulses, pure black state of mind and heart. I am here now all the time, I do not make plans, I do not want anything. Why? Because every second I am alive and stimulated by such profound desolation. Abstractionless desolation.
Ego that was once something happening is now simply a consciousness, a plain glass between the demiurgos and this inverse cavern.
My taste is bitter, my sight is painfully clear, my flesh is sentient clay, my mind is this still darkness, no above, below nor lateral divide, where sudden grey flashes of corpses, a pit of limitless corpses, darkness is eating itself like lightning crashing in my head.
I can appreciate the presence of the feminine creature.
I do not want anything of this worlds absurd and ugly goings on. Society is to observe a pitiless painting of banality, to look at the eyes of apes being fed on their own dead, eating their dead infants, knowing not any different, I wish for these ugly sights to have the intelligences for penance and reflection as to what is happening so they would vomit and die from immense emotional trauma. A joke so sick that nothing else is funny except life itself and the severity of the horror that is just so disgusting that I laugh uncontrollably at man.
Black emotions, swarming stimulation, intensity.
Something inside is nauseated and besickened by the light of day for my "I" adjusted to darkness a long time ago.
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#50076 - 02/28/11 02:02 AM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: William Wright]
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Hegesias
active member
Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 702
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No, I don't have a deathwish and I'm not a sociopath, a sociopath lacks empathy. I do however know much about criminal psychology, I just hate what mankind has become and would like to see the Earth burned to a crisp because... I desensitise myself. I was born as a dead foetus and had numerous other near death experiences. I'm just very nihilistic almost all of the time and in person I am not horrible to anyone who does not deserve it, I've just seen and been in extreme violence my whole life and hate mankind because in my eyes nobody is trustworthy or honourable so I am to women, always have been. Is this a problem to anyone here?
You may think what you like and dismiss me as having no emotions like those doctors did, they were male, but you are male and will only see the dispassion I am capable of. Most of the time I'm just extremely black humoured, my depth perception for irony is something psychological and misanthropic.
Nothing makes me feel different inside but a female presence, her smile and laugh, everything else can rot. Is this a problem with anyone here?
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#50080 - 02/28/11 02:48 AM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: William Wright]
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Hegesias
active member
Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 702
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Sometimes sorrow becomes normal and turns to dispassion and numbness and anger. I look at mankind and see tragedy and sorrow when I look at happy peoples faces, the vulnerability and naivety, This sorrow makes me have a paroxysm of anger often times. Powerlessness to help people, powerlessness to communicate the importance of caring for one another, people don't appreciate ANYTHING, take each other for granted and neglect one another. Misanthropy is something which can make me extremely dispassionate but really I look for honourable types, I am arrogant and display the best manners and care to females out of sarcasm and anger because I just feel everything is not good enough, everyone is tragic and unsalvageable, oblivious. I despise weak people because they won't fight for themselves and this makes a feeling of powerlessness to help them, sorrow. This then turns to anger and then dispassion.
This makes me hate the inoperable. I try so hard to be loving and understanding to females, and I am. I just can't be around anyone who is drinking or doing drugs because I just see shit that I immediately display intolerance toward. Is there a problem with this for anyone? I have PTSD from prolonged exposure to violence, My father was a psychopath, I am desensitised from what has happened and the violence that I have had to do in extreme situations with people with blades, hammers you name it there been some fucked up people in my family homes when I was growing up and it's never, ever me that starts anything I retaliate with dispassionate violence and don't stop hitting, big deal, does anyone have a problem with this? I have hypervigilance constantly which means constant adrenaline, and my mind is aggressively active, big deal, I incapable of backing down from anything because once my adrenaline really goes I am basically a man with no soul.
I am incapable of trusting others. If I recognise anyone has ill intent I act first defensibly often violently. I have never deliberately gone out and hurt anyone for no reason, I spend most days just disgusted that somebody will interact with me and I'll beat the fuck out of them, I see this as the only thing to do. I look after my close ones that's all I do. Does anyone have a problem with this?
I like this forum because, well, make something up.
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#50219 - 02/28/11 11:33 PM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
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Hegesias
active member
Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 702
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Thanks for those replies. I rekon people need to be aware of the positive object of nihilism and that it's not just a belief in nothing.
I put intrinsic value in black humour and orchestrating a vicious satire of societies mundanity, but besides that I'm not completely without everything, I still have a books, laptop, my instruments and weights... I just don't have any furniture or anything else. I never saw the point of wanting anything else.
Time to hit the gym tomorrow, there are females to charm. Shame I already have a wonderful girlfriend already.
Back more to the topic. Does anyone see the object of primal Satanism with nihilist dialectics in juxtaposition?
What I mean is that by deconstructing societal ways of thinking and being through nihilism leaves one without extrinsic/ intrinsic meaning and done in an extreme way through 'existential nihilism', even going so far as to polarise the negation we feel, we are left with nothing but our base desires and even doubting if emotion is real or at best something illusory on the way is necessary. Why? Because we then have Satanism, our primal nature and desires and complimented by philosophical thinking we realise that these two extremes no matter which Satanism or what active nihilism is pursued we arrive at the real and solid truth of our intrinsic meaning, we know what is important and put passion into those things which give us purpose in focus. At least I do.
I find meaning in exercise and good nutrition, music/ art/ literature, and appreciation of the feminine creature. That is all and all of these things I can appreciate in nature environment, I have a thing about the woods. It's not the environment that I am looking at like a picturesque painting, but to the dark presenced all around.
If I go dark it's because I simply cultivate that quickening of dark mental activity for passionate music making and writing. It is now inspiration.
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#50359 - 03/02/11 07:37 PM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: William Wright]
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Hegesias
active member
Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 702
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Hegesias, would you really hide or destroy an AIDS cure from the world? If so, I’m confused. You said in another thread that a primary motivation for cursing/beating the shit out of certain men is that they are mistreating women, yet AIDS kills millions of women each year. Babies born with AIDS are often doomed to a short, miserable life that they didn’t deserve. I don’t understand what satisfaction you could possibly get by withholding a cure from them.
It's nihilism negating the notion of active evil and belittling it with an elusive evil that would be a thousand fold more sinister than say, butchering everyone at the supermarket. The point was that we may conceptualise evil so we don't have to act on whimsical urges and display vulgar displays of power. I always saw the Satan as being so profoundly evil and complex because the thought is dark it arrives at the conclusion faster than the speed of light, it is darkness and swathes the light, a dangerous intelligence capable of such clarity that the light is merely fleeting, the dark is always there consuming from the outside. Satan is not regressive, it is progressive and for this we need to conceptualise Evil, to use it for depravity or for no purpose but gratification? surely not, Satan is too psychological and wise.
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#52512 - 04/08/11 07:09 PM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: Meq]
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mightisright
stranger
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 23
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I don't understand why some people would harm themselves. After all, life is so short, why do things that we don't want to do!
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#52541 - 04/09/11 04:35 AM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: mightisright]
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Hegesias
active member
Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 702
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Damn, I had this so clear in my head the other night and I will return to make a clearer post, but for now, something necessary.
Nihilism is something very hard to write about and think about at the same time. Self destruction is something which can be passive or active, destroying is a positive thing as we re-build on revaluation after our values have been devalued, this is perpetual as everything comes back to nihilism. Satanism seems to cultivate an all powerful ego. Being well socialised and having social skills I still do not believe in the ties that bind me with society. This is not because of a neo-romanticised Utopian pipe dream but a simple quest to find true honour, personal honour through uncompromising will to power. I see many people as spiritless and this only serves as motivation to make vast effort to rally and motivate by my own personal deeds done. What are these deeds? Sometimes I don't know myself but often times displays of confidence and common kindness, with manners, this is to be enough to motivate myself and other people and get into a positive vibe.
This does not sound very nihilist does it, well this is because all my energy is based on making change, often times this is immensely aggressive and destructive, but by reasserting a positive, if you are like this with focused aggression turned inward issuing yourself commands in absolute confidence, you may start to see how flaccid societal persons can be and how slowly they shamble around and this only gives me the urge to clap my hands and shout "come on move it!". This is not because I "hate" people but because I hate what I see, that many people do not help themselves and think they are "happy", this happiness is contentment, contentment gets confused with happiness which to me is having attained power in accordance to ones will.
Being nihilistic and also narcissistic does not mean that I dismiss "all" others as inferior, on the contrary to a large degree, I am motivated and rallied by being around others who are as positive and confident as I. I do not ask anything of anyone except that they display tenacity and spirit, it's a respect thing, if I see others lacking confidence or being half asses I am disgusted and reject those persons forever, I decide and pass judgement arrogantly, this is my own loss and may be unreasonable but impossibly high standards of confidence and spirit is what I look for. I admit feel dissatisfied and sometimes, just sometimes overwhelmed with motivation to give 100% to side with those who I can see are spirited. So far my few friends have never let me down because we don't expect anything from each other except to have a sense of humour and be motivational, I am misanthropic towards the majority of society but this simply means I have a set of values I simply must have met, these are independence and charismatic confidence traits.
If anyone can relate to feeling that others are often so un-spirited? Do you feel motivated when somebody is willing to take risks to make changes? I am. This is where Satanism's individualised philosophy comes in: Satanism gives a nihilist direction and purpose and is a means of devaluation of societies values and revaluation of ones own values to overcome ones conditioning. We may not immediately notice Christianised society as there are not always Churches and praying Christians everywhere, but the conspiracy is very subterranean and permeates all of the society, it's just very well hidden and interwoven into all of societies moral system that is so decayed and corrupt that to those who are used to it are also decayed—this is where revaluation comes in.
This is why extreme Satanism is necessary to break the shackles, push envelopes, think outside the box, and push our thoughts and actions into new territory that otherwise would remain in the dark.
Think of an elephant who is born into a environment with a chain on his leg. As a baby he is trapped and cannot move away from the chain, he actually sees the chain as his part of his parent. As the elephant grows to be powerful he can easily break the chain just by walking, but because he does not think of trying as he knows nothing else but contentment, he sits there... Tapping into ones propensity is important for both nihilism and Satanism. Active nihilism is not the same as passive nihilism, use nihilistic thinking and actions as a means of revaluation, not as a means to an end.
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#52552 - 04/09/11 08:17 AM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: Diavolo]
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Hegesias
active member
Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 702
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As everything that we sense including our own corporeal brains is not in fact solid as it might appear but made up of subatomic particles, which have no solidity at all? Nothing but energy and raw data for which entropy is constant, for which dissolve is constant, for which nihilism is constant, for which death is constant?
Is everything then incorporeal and psyche is thus able to create the corporeal from the incorporeal because after all the brain is not solid but that every causal event occurs at the speed of light which is beyond the capability of our senses to process in entirety? In this we see the entire physical demiurgos world is made up of nothing but energy vibration frequencies and that everything that is visible in the universe is a manifestation of the information—quanta being not either particles and waves but both.
I understand that whenever scientists determine the result of subatomic particle experiments through their participation in choosing the equipment of measurement, subatomic particles become whatever they are trying to measure.
The human apparatus perceives / projects Order in Chaos in a limited manner relating to necessity to exist in our ecosystem so no wonder the expanse of outer space and inner seems so large because we are made to "focus" in on necessity? But in knowing this, that the world around us is an illusion. We can change what we sense as the corporeal by using the power of our incorporeal minds, incorporeal and corporeal being one in the same?
Maybe everything is connected to everything else as a mass of raw data. Your mind shapes "your" reality. The world is not actually "out there" it is you and you create your world by simply seeing the world the way create it in the incorporeal mind? You can influence the result of your world by changing the way you see it yet because of moral abstraction and the way humans assume comforting things are desirable, we receive pain and misery as something that we don't want when we are actually creating it beyond the limitation of the ego? If one will consider the extent to which we are the victims of our worldview, to consider the ability we have to modify them if we wish. I am creating everything as a lone light source centred in the black void of space. Watch a glass smash on the floor, it appears as Chaotic and unordered as the accident that caused it, yet if you were to play a video of the event backwards you'd see that the pieces fit together in perfect synchronicity. This is part of my ensuing culmination of existential nihilism as I unconsciously and consciously design the creation of the cosmos in reverse.
This is not solipsism as I know other minds are present yet because the expanse of space and scale of matter is null and void because in infinity there is nothing to measure against but itself as the microcosm is as infinitesimal as the macrocosm indicating that everything in the universe is of the same magnitude only receiving differentiation by what we cannot perceive. If we were to perceive everything the universe would grind to a halt.
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#55632 - 06/09/11 03:26 PM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: battlescar22]
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Hegesias
active member
Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 702
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"Who has the courage for an attack on ones own convictions!"— Nietzsche
My Conjecture, in summery of Satanism and Nihilism.
Active Nihilism is characterised by Nietzsche as a sign of strength. Active Nihilism is related to what Nietzsche calls the Ubermensch.
Active Nihilism is to destroy, to level the field, for constructing anew. This addressing of Nihilism is entirely distinct from passive Nihilism. Addressing Nihilism by directing ones will to power is not the same as being overcome by the aimlessness, which is the passive form of Nihilism.
Active Nihilism is the "wilful destruction of old values", wiping the slate clean to lay down one's own value and interpretation, contrary to the "passive Nihilism" which is to resign oneself, consciously or unconsciously, to the decomposition of the old values, such as those who shamble about the Graveyard of God, quite accustomed to, and tolerant to, the smell of their own decay.
This Wilful Destruction of Values and the Overcoming of Nihilism by "the construction of new meaning" is the conscious overcoming of Nihilism, without affirming this challenge, one may be consigned to oblivious passive Nihilism— the slow and steady decay of ones fixations and beliefs with only invincible ignorance as a support structure (self deceit). However, slave morality is not a bad thing, it is for the herd, and should be left to them. A wolf does not mind how many sheep there are.
Order to Chaos!
Destroy to rebuild!
Solve et Coagula!
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#55644 - 06/09/11 11:16 PM
Re: Nihilism vs Satanism? how similar are the two?
[Re: Hegesias]
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paolo sette
Temp Banned
member
Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 237
Loc: IL, USA
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Active Nihilism is to destroy, to level the field, for constructing anew. This addressing of Nihilism is entirely distinct from passive Nihilism. Addressing Nihilism by directing ones will to power is not the same as being overcome by the aimlessness, which is the passive form of Nihilism.
Nietzsche writes in the following way in the chapter entitled: On Free Death, Thus Spoke Zarathustra. "Die at the right time: so teacheth Zarathustra." For Nietzsche, the ideal Death is precisely Death not too early, not too late: "the free Death which cometh because I want it". In the same chapter he writes, "The consummating Death I show unto you which becometh a stimulus and promise to the living." Apply this to Will to Power, and you will see that Death in general is a calamity in which it's always too early.
Ciao.
Edited by paolo sette (06/09/11 11:17 PM)
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tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
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[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu
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