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#67472 - 06/20/12 02:44 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Oxus]
Morgan Offline
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Jake and Aquino have been recognized as Satanists in the Military since the Vietnam war.

Pagans are recognized.
Setians are recognized.

I remembering seeing information about lawsuits that were won regarding being able to practice Satanism in jail.

Any religion can be legal,if you put in the necessary paperwork.

M.
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#67493 - 06/20/12 12:16 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Morgan]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Any religion can be legal,if you put in the necessary paperwork.


^
^

Exactly THIS.

You see, we have this little thing called the First Amendment to the Constitution. And this contains a little thing called the "free exercise" clause.

Anywho . . .

JK
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#70683 - 09/08/12 06:50 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Jason King]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
Courts have rendered mixed verdicts regarding the practice of Satanism in prison. Note how courts distinguished the following cases:

In McCorkle v. Johnson, 881 F.2d 993 (1989), the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said Alabama prison officials did not violate the free exercise rights of an inmate by denying him access to The Satanic Bible. “The teachings of The Satanic Bible ... present a significant threat to security and order within the prison,” it warned.

But as an Illinois judge has noted, the plaintiff in that case “held an extreme view on Satanism that called for human sacrifice, drinking of blood, wrist slashing and consuming the flesh of humans while they were still alive.” Semla v. Snyder.

Jail settles with inmate over access to TSB

There have been, to date, a number of both successful and unsuccessful suits. The tension in the courts seems to be between the free exercise clause and public safety concerns (aka a legitimate penological interest). Overall, the issue has never been truly resolved. I would encourage any prisoner to sue on these grounds if denied free exercise of *any* religion. Just be aware that public safety has been used as a rationale to deny said rights.

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#70693 - 09/08/12 03:29 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Le Deluge]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1823
Loc: New York
This issue bugs the shit out of me.
First off, I seriously doubt that those who claim that TSB is dangerous have actually read it.
If the TSB can be banned then the holy bible should definitely be banned, and perhaps the Koran as well . They have a lot more violence and “evil” in them then TSB. But most of us already know this.
I believe that a decent lawyer could argue in favor of TSB simply by comparing it to the other two books and bringing up specific points where each suggest that violence and hate is advocated.
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#70698 - 09/09/12 02:51 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Asmedious]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3378
 Quote:
First off, I seriously doubt that those who claim that TSB is dangerous have actually read it.
If the TSB can be banned then the holy bible should definitely be banned, and perhaps the Koran as well .

Discussions and lawsuits concerning books always had more to do with popular view and standing as what is actually written.
You're right they probably didn't read TSB (or rarely or only parts of it) on the other side, same applies for the Bible and Koran.

Depending on the zone living in, everything linked to Satanism will result in the automated buzzword "no" to appeal to public opinion. From that point on it's only a matter of finding excuses why it is a no.

The rare cases TSB was allowed are most of the time places where a certain neutrality is considered or a non-caring from the public is happening.

It doesn't bother me, books are but pages and they can try to ban the shit out of it. There are always other methods to acquire it and even if taken (after reading) I wouldn't mind since the information is already known to me.

 Quote:
There have been, to date, a number of both successful and unsuccessful suits. The tension in the courts seems to be between the free exercise clause and public safety concerns (aka a legitimate penological interest). Overall, the issue has never been truly resolved. I would encourage any prisoner to sue on these grounds if denied free exercise of *any* religion. Just be aware that public safety has been used as a rationale to deny said rights.

If such lawsuits follow 3/4 are more for disturbing shit than actual wanting to..
Only hearing inmates filing lawsuits to have acces to their "holy" works makes me think they deserve a harsher punishment.
They're in fucking jail, their freedom taken away for whatever crime they committed. Sometimes it has to be learned to simply put up and shut up to be in the best interest.


Edited by Dimitri (09/09/12 03:02 AM)
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#70700 - 09/09/12 05:12 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Dimitri]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
[quote=Dimitri]
 Quote:

If such lawsuits follow 3/4 are more for disturbing shit than actual wanting to..
Only hearing inmates filing lawsuits to have acces to their "holy" works makes me think they deserve a harsher punishment.
They're in fucking jail, their freedom taken away for whatever crime they committed. Sometimes it has to be learned to simply put up and shut up to be in the best interest.


The questions previous posters posed: Do these religions have legal recognition in the United States ... they do. Can they be practiced in jail ... Mixed results. A prisoner has the right to petition under the free exercise clause. Your opinions as to whether they should be able to, whether many are frivolous (I agree with you there, but those are our personal opinions), or whether additional punitive measures should be taken ... are irrelevant (as are mine)

I stated the law as it stands and what recourse a prisoner may have. No more. No less.

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#70709 - 09/09/12 03:58 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Dimitri]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1823
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Only hearing inmates filing lawsuits to have acces to their "holy" works makes me think they deserve a harsher punishment.
They're in fucking jail, their freedom taken away for whatever crime they committed. Sometimes it has to be learned to simply put up and shut up to be in the best interest.



Fine by me, but in that case, all "Holy" books that refer to any kind of violence should follow the same rules.
Personally I would enjoy seeing the shit that would hit the fan if instead of fighting for someone's right to read TSB in jail, a lawyer would go after the other Holy books using the same presedents that were used against TSB.
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#70723 - 09/10/12 10:21 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: 111Cal]
Ignotum Offline
Intellectual Black Hole
stranger


Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: 111Cal
The role and titles of "active" members in the current CoS is a joke. The questionaire that is sent out is not in depth or logical at all. It is basically just a lot of useless information that proves or disproves nothing. The majority of those who become "active" members do so because they know someone else who is an active member.... I.E. they are friends of a friend ALLREADY active and want to "join the club".... does anyone really think that Peter Gilmore or anyone of note in the CoS actually reads through all those and finds some nuggests of wisdom that qualify you as active???

The only ones who are chosen to be "active" are either friends of friends... or those with some skill to contribute... IE someone with a specific career or talent that can be useful to the COS or one of its media entities......


The Church of Satan has five degrees:
1. Satanist
2. Master
3. Priest
4. Magister
5. Magus

When you become an active member, then, immediately you are a "satanist" (first degree) and it only proofs that you understand the satanic principles described in the Satanic Bible.
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#70748 - 09/10/12 11:07 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Ignotum]
Morgan Offline
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"When you become an active member, then, immediately you are a "satanist" (first degree) and it only proofs that you understand the satanic principles described in the Satanic Bible."

You don't need to join any organization in order to be a Satanist.

Sending 200 bucks to an organization doesn't prove you are a Satanist or that you understand the book at all.

If you disagree with just about anything on the CoS website, you get kicked from the club and your little red card means even less.

Good luck on your path. There is a lot of information available on this site I hope you learn something new.

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#70763 - 09/11/12 10:52 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Morgan]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
Regarding the OP: You definitely don't have to join any organization to walk the LHP as satanist, luciferian, or otherwise. It is something one would do only after careful thought (I hope). I'll take it further when I review part of the Admin's book. The organizing principles of CoS are something some of the newer folks here need to be aware of. It will definitely save potential grief if people are clear on these points.
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#70768 - 09/11/12 12:56 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Ignotum]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2092
Loc: Texas
In addition to what Morgan said I'd only offer a small correction. A 2nd degree in the C/S is a Witch/Warlock, not a master.

I never got past the idea of being a staunch individualist with a need for validation from an outside source. If one truly is an individualist then a 'Church of Satan' in its current form is anathema.
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#70770 - 09/11/12 01:09 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Morgan]
Ignotum Offline
Intellectual Black Hole
stranger


Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 17
 Quote:
You don't need to join any organization in order to be a Satanist.

I know and the CoS says the same.
"Satanist" in the sense that I said is just the title of a degree.
 Quote:
If you disagree with just about anything on the CoS website, you get kicked from the club and your little red card means even less.

That is not true.

By the way about "my path" let me tell you that I am not a CoS member (I disagree in a lot of things with the CoS) If I could be a member of a "Church" that "Church" may be the First Satanic Church.
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#70771 - 09/11/12 01:14 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Fnord]
Ignotum Offline
Intellectual Black Hole
stranger


Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
In addition to what Morgan said I'd only offer a small correction. A 2nd degree in the C/S is a Witch/Warlock, not a master.

Yes, sorry. It was my mistake
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#70783 - 09/11/12 02:24 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Ignotum]
Erich Zann Offline
member


Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
 Originally Posted By: Ignotum
 Quote:
If you disagree with just about anything on the CoS website, you get kicked from the club and your little red card means even less.


That is not true.


And your source for that knowledge is which one? I mean, lots of people correspondingly experienced what Morgan said, so how do you know that this is not true?
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#70792 - 09/11/12 07:02 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Erich Zann]
Ignotum Offline
Intellectual Black Hole
stranger


Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: Erich Zann
 Originally Posted By: Ignotum
 Quote:
If you disagree with just about anything on the CoS website, you get kicked from the club and your little red card means even less.


That is not true.


And your source for that knowledge is which one? I mean, lots of people correspondingly experienced what Morgan said, so how do you know that this is not true?



Sorry. I can't tell you my source. I just tell you that my source is more reliable than any other \:\)
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