Page all of 4 1234>
Topic Options
#38258 - 05/03/10 09:22 PM For those who say anyone can get into the CoS
Severed Soul Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
This thread is for all the people who say anyone can get into the CoS and it has become more of a way for the more elite members to make money.

I think you guys are absolutely right, from what I have heard and researched it truly seems that way.

On the other hand I don't believe that anyone can become an "Active Member" for there is a pretty extensive questionnaire that is reviewed to see if you are fit for being part of the Church.

What I am getting at is, I believe they make it so anyone can become a "registered" member so the church can make some money (which I think is smart of them). While they make it more of a difficult process to become an "Active" member, so that only the elite/worthy people can be part of that.

Let me hear your thoughts on this, whether they be positive or negative. This is just a theory that has dawned over me and I realize that there is still much research to be done.
_________________________
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.”- Anton LaVey

Top
#38263 - 05/03/10 11:00 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Severed Soul]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
That's pretty much what I've been able to tell. It satisfies all of the dupes who just want a fancy red card to flash around, while at the same time being able to keep any morons an arm's length away.

I'm guessing if you worked at getting into the inner CoS circle you could actually get something out of it, but from what I've seen it's not all too interesting, aside from being a social club for artsy deviants. I already got that in college... (although granted, it cost me a hell of a lot more than 200 dollars.)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#38267 - 05/04/10 12:09 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Severed Soul]
Zophos Offline
member


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
The question faced by the Church of Satan's administrators is this: to what extent is it in their best interests to place value in monetary support of their organization through the influx of new members? Is it preferable, in other words, to have a relaxed membership policy (and therefore more money) or critical meritocratic discernment (and therefore greater integrity)? The simple answer is that the Church's administration seeks to preserve itself as much as its members do, even if (like most individuals) it means willful but avoidable hypocrisy. Some "Alien Elite."

A cursory glance at the Church of Satan's Active Membership application and questionnaire will immediately dispel any illusions that its process of admission is a rigorous or meaningful one. While a requirement for applicants to define Satan and explain their impressions of The Satanic Bible likely does send the lowest stratum of misguided thrill-seekers and boorish imbeciles on their way, laughably irrelevant inclusions like "Which parent do you admire most, and why?", "What are your food preferences?", and "Tell one of your favorite jokes" almost seem deliberately placed to undermine the Church's credibility (which at any rate requires the ε-δ definition of limit to compute—"really fucking small" in non-geek). These aside, the clear weight is nevertheless on quantity rather than quality, and the intellectual mediocrity if not outright stupidity of some of its Active Members (visit Letters to the Devil for confirmation) bears this out.

Inherently dubious as it is to ascribe disproportionate value to numbers rather than the capacities of members (see Christianity), my own opinion is that, if the Church's elitism were as pronounced as the Church claims it to be, membership would be infinitesimally smaller. I might add on a related note that, regardless of one's opinion of the Temple of Set (no, I am not a member), its lengthy application and interview process is indisputably superior to the rubber stamping employed by the Church of Satan. No organization can rid itself of worthless members with complete effectiveness, but I applaud Dr. Aquino and the Temple's priesthood for doing far more to that effect than any other Left-Hand Path organization I know of, and certainly more than Peter Gilmore's lot.


Z.
_________________________
Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

Top
#38682 - 05/20/10 09:41 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Zophos]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
The role and titles of "active" members in the current CoS is a joke. The questionaire that is sent out is not in depth or logical at all. It is basically just a lot of useless information that proves or disproves nothing. The majority of those who become "active" members do so because they know someone else who is an active member.... I.E. they are friends of a friend ALLREADY active and want to "join the club".... does anyone really think that Peter Gilmore or anyone of note in the CoS actually reads through all those and finds some nuggests of wisdom that qualify you as active???

The only ones who are chosen to be "active" are either friends of friends... or those with some skill to contribute... IE someone with a specific career or talent that can be useful to the CoS or one of its media entities......

Top
#38686 - 05/20/10 09:51 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Severed Soul]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
 Originally Posted By: Severed Soul
I believe they make it so anyone can become a "registered" member so the church can make some money (which I think is smart of them). .


Back in the last years of LaVeys life, when you sent in your $ and got the red card, at least you were sent other information... flyers for books, contact information for other groups, you were sort of directed in areas to look in order to learn more and purchase items.... I know people who joined in the 1980s and are STILL on mailing lists from back then....

But today, with the internet and the information available so freely... all you get for your (GREATLY INCREASED) $$$$$ is a crappy little card you can print out yourself online.

I dont see why anyone over the age of 13 would think that was worthwhile at all. And I think its more of a reflection of Gilmore and Bartons lack of creativity and inability to profit from their OWN works and actions since LaVeys death....

In well over a decade since LaVey has been gone, the sole contribution of the self proclaimed 2 most important Satanists living today, has been a mediocre books consisting of mainly reprinted articles....

weak....

Top
#38694 - 05/20/10 12:47 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: 111Cal]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
OOOPS i meant BOOK not BOOKS (the Satanic Scriptures..... full of typos, and consists mainly of reprinted articles from the Black Flame)....
Top
#38723 - 05/21/10 11:24 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: 111Cal]
Adversary Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 93
I think The Zebu said it pretty well.

Think about why you would want to join. So you feel like you belong? Feel like a 'real satanist?' If they were worth something to you, no, if they were worth something, they wouldn't need a "cover charge." If they themselves were something of value, they would want to keep the quality up and the application just doesn't look for that. If you were worth something to them, why the fuck would they need a couple hundred bucks from you? Welcoming you for something you would be worth with open arms would be much more advantageous and profitable in the long run. Fuck a few hundred.
It just doesn't seem rational. They would have more success picking and choosing from a discussion board then they would applicants filling out a questionair for some silly psych-eval.
Mind you, more likely than not, these guys know they only have one life to live. Fuck the ending and the suckers who paid for it, as long as you've got money, right?
To add, but more of a question. Do they bother to even incite on a persons understanding of things like science? That would give a great deal of information on if the person is a person of thinking abilities, has good judgement, is rational, cares to or is even capable of doing their own research or if they are able to educate the self and so on.


Edited by Adversary (05/21/10 11:34 PM)

Top
#38725 - 05/21/10 11:53 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Adversary]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Really though, people... if a person wants to spend their money to join The Church of Satan or do anything else with it, it's THEIR money. Now, I'm not saying that anybody SHOULD pay $200 to join the Church of Satan. I've been a Satanist since the early 70's and I have never suggested that anyone join the Church. Proselytization has never been a part of the deal. But what a person does with their money is their business. Period.

If, for example, some of you were told you shouldn't spend your money on weed or booze, there'd be a hew and cry to bring down the heavens. And what does that high cost you? That night out drinking? What do you have to show for it? You might have a DWI ticket... a hangover. But it's what you want to do. You have that choice.

Now, for grins and giggles, I came up with a list of things that people spend their $ on that are frivilous. Their bucks... their choice. We may not agree with them, but unless it comes out of OUR POCKET, we have no place to tell people what to do. A lot of people tend to get down right "Christian" in their ability to tell others what's good for them. If a red card and a sense of belonging is what a person really wants and they are willing to spend their money to get it, more power to them.

Blue Man Group - Venetian
$101.85 Red Zone & Poncho B
$142.00 Blue Zone & Poncho C

Donny & Marie - Flamingo
$103.57 Balcony Seating
$118.97 Main Floor Seating

Cher - Caesar’s Palace
$117.00 2nd Mezzanine
$136.95 2nd Mezzanine
$162.00 1st Mezzanine

Penn & Teller - Rio
$84.85

David Copperfield - MGM Grand
$99.25

KA - MGM Grand (Cirque du Soliel)
$150.50 Standard View: Seats in Second Best Viewing Areas
$116.40 Top Level Side View Seating

O - Bellagio (Cirque du Soliel)
$172.50

Carrot Top - Sahara
$27.05 - $37.95

Dodgers vs Giants - San Francisco
$18 - Nose Bleed Section
$26 - Bleachers (Cost of bad food not included)

Boston Celtics vs Cavaliers
$65.00 - $74.00

Nickelback - $43.00 - $73.00
Pearl Jam - $46.00 - $66.50
Eagles - $30.00 - $230.00
Black Eyed Peas - $49.50 - $92.50
Rush - Mohegan Sun - $70.00 - $90.00
Lady GaGa - $54.00 - $179.50

WWE Over The Limits
$25.00 - $250.00

WWE RAW - Memphis
$24.93 - $73.20

Hell of a lot for a night with nothing to show for it but a memory, but one man's folly is another man's entertainment.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#38726 - 05/22/10 12:58 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Jake999]
Adversary Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 93
I know Jake, and that's fine. You are absolutely right. What is the point in having your own money if you can't spend it on what you want. But that's what disappoints me about things like the CoS. It's just another show. Granted, what is the title Satanism without the opposite.
It's just that, the way I have always viewed it, when you hear something like THE Church of Satan, it isn't something bent on world domination. What I expected and hoped for. As I said above, it's just another show. A season pass. Something to do with your weekend.

Top
#38727 - 05/22/10 02:04 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Adversary]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Adversary
As I said above, it's just another show. A season pass. Something to do with your weekend.


Well, it COULD be. It never was for me, but then, I wasn't simply joining to join, and I was there to make a difference. And what better difference could one make than to become something that is the best and brightest of what one could expect (yes, even in the Church of Satan) and thereby affecting change where one is needed? There has never been a mandate for people to do anything once they joined the Church of Satan, and there have always been those who were satisfied to simply get that initial blue card, or take the next step and get the red... but one COULD get involved if they wanted to and was more than just some moke who could fill out a piece of paper.

I started just like everyone else, isolated by geography (hell, I was in Turkey. You don't get much more isolated than that...) and even there I was able to study and to organize and to establish myself as a recognized individual and Satanist, even in the military, where "god, country and apple pie" are the gold standard. As the years went by, and as I learned what the Church of Satan actually was, actually did, and actually meant, my stock rose. But I was under no illusion that I was the be all and end all of Satanists, and I knew that I would have to work and prove myself to get anywhere THERE, just as I did in the military.

Now, I know Gilmore and his regime are some less than stellar representatives of what one would expect from THE Church of Satan, but to accept that that's what is and what must be sells one's own sense of purpose short. There will always be times when you have dynamic and forward thinking leaders... even in the US Presidency, not all leaders were George Washingtons or Thomas Jeffersons. Calvin Coolidge and George W. Bush come to mind. And the devastation that lackluster leaders can cause can indeed be devastating, and the stagnation they inspire could be crippling, IF everyone else gives up on the ideal.

Organizations are like the tides. They ebb and flow, and their power increases and diminishes. That's to be expected. They grow and they fade, but eventually, they meet their goals, as long as they stay the course. That's what the cryptic words of the Nineteenth Enochian Key mean:

"Open wide the gates of Hell! The lower heavens beneath you, let them serve you! Govern those who govern! Cast down such as fall. Bring forth those that increase, and destroy the rotten. No place, let it remain in one number. Add and diminish until the stars be numbered. Arise! Move! and appear before the covenant of His mouth, which He hath sworn unto us in His justice. Open the mysteries of your creation, and make us partakers of the UNDEFILED WISDOM. "

I won't live to see the emergence of Satanism as the dominant philosophy. Who knows, maybe those just now hearing the term will. Maybe it will be decades or centuries in the future. But one thing is certain. It NEVER will if everyone just gives up.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#38730 - 05/22/10 12:27 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Jake999]
Adversary Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 93
No, I should have clarified. The whole weekend warrior thing, it seems, is the way it is now. I believe it was really something more when it was still maturing, as you said when you were doing it.
Top
#38732 - 05/22/10 01:57 PM WhateverWorksIsm [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2521
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
... I won't live to see the emergence of Satanism as the dominant philosophy. Who knows, maybe those just now hearing the term will. Maybe it will be decades or centuries in the future. But one thing is certain. It NEVER will if everyone just gives up.

Arguably it already is [and already has been] the dominant philosophy of the world; it just isn't fessed up as such. Anton had a pet phrase for this: "people playing on the team but not acknowledging the coach". Which is what his rants about hypocrisy were all about - that the world gives lip service to this or that ickypoo religion or moral standard, then goes right on being de facto if not de jure Satanists. [His secondary complaint was that, not acknowledging what they're doing, the majority of people do an inept job of it.]

Back around '72 a member of the Church named Peter McAlpine wrote a charming little book entitled The Occult Technology of Power, which today you can read here. It does a tidy job of speaking to this point. Peter included a quote from the Satanic Bible and also cited it in the bibliography (which is a bib worth chasing down, by the way). If you want a printcopy of his book, Amazon has some available.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#38734 - 05/22/10 03:07 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Jake999]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Jake999

I wasn't simply joining to join, and I was there to make a difference.


I never quite understood what the purpose was to join the CoS - passive or active member - at least post-Lavey (and some say post-1975 I guess). Todays CoS seems to tell people that they dont really offer anything for its members. I cant quite see the point in joining because according to my estimation everything you can do within the CoS you can do without being a member as well.

Now I realize that you're one of the old-school members so to speak so you may not be able to answer the question in regards to Peter Gilmores CoS but what kind of difference did you strive for and how come you felt it had to be done as a member of the CoS?

Top
#38735 - 05/22/10 03:11 PM Re: WhateverWorksIsm [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
You and I have seen the hypocritical (arguably ignorantly so) world's operation on the "satanic plane," all the while proclaiming its godliness and purity as they gather around their campfires to sing Kumbayah while plotting the demise of the guy next to them. They reject their nature for that spiritual pipe dream, as most of the world walks around with blinders on, and probably as they should. Unfortunately, we've seen the caretakers of the dream abrogating their responsibilities in the development and implementation of any kind of real Satanic philosophical infrastructure in favor of political posturing, interpersonal game playing and nest feathering.

To some degree, I'll admit that I have to cop my plea in this regard. While I've always maintained my loyalty and my adherence to "the dream," and I've fought tooth and nail for it at times, but I'll always have that self incrimination that I could have done more. I could always have done something... whatever that something could have been. And it's disheartening as hell at times to see the promise of what was degenerate into a simple clique in black that changed a warship into dinghy, pretending it's a yacht.

I still share the dream, and would love (and that is a word I use as sparingly as I can) see it come to fruition. I wonder how long it will take us to achieve it, given the somatization of those who must carry the banner forward... and I'm talking both in the intellectual AND pharmaceutical sense. So many that should be clear eyed and aware have sold themselves out for a few grams of substances or personal delusions!

Years ago, Dr. LaVey wrote a piece that expresses his sense of purpose in the norm. It's inspirational as hell and I have it in my files. I'll post it when I find it.

But to get back on track with people wanting that "red card," I want to post something of LaVey's from the September/October VIII A,S. (1973 for you heathens) Cloven Hoof that shows the impact that it USED to have.

SOCIAL REACTION TO A Church of Satan MEMBERSHIP CARD
To Sergei Mayakovsky

I could devour bureaucracy like a wolf.
I haven't any respect for documents.
Let whatever official papers there may be go to any deities you may need and to their mothers.

But this...

Throughout the day an night move polite officials -- managers who check credentials and ascertain legitimacy.

At cocktail parties and where good fellows get together, embossed cards and slick plastic are passed about, bearing witness to their owner's worldly achievements.

And at times, I too submit my rectangles of identity.

For the man who exposes his Playboy key, as though unzipping his fly, there is a smile on the mouth of the beholder.

For the card of the Scientologist who is Clear -- a withering sneer.

With respect they scrutinize the Greek-lettered pasteboards of academic fraternities, for wisdom is self-consciously in evience as a forty-pound Phi Beta Kappa key.

With eyes that fairly eat up the card, and never ceasing their approval, they take up, as though taking tips, the raised plastic of Diner's Club and Carte Blanche.

They look upon the Rotarian's identity like a goat looks at a billboard.

Their eyes stare at a union card in elephantine dullness.

They muse over the ministerial credentials of the Universal Life Church and seem to say,"What kind of sociological novelty can this be?"

And not turning their cabbage heads and not knowing any feelings, and with unwinking self-consciousness, they peruse the photos on the driver's licenses of blacks and of various other darklings, commenting on remarkable likenesses.

And suddenly, as is scalded, the mouth of the peruser twists...

This is the lady of gentleman gazing upon my red-skimmed passport to perfidy. He eyes it like a bomb, he touches it like a porcupine, like a double-edged razor. He takes it up like a nine-foot snake rattling thirty-six stingers. The knowing eye of his companion has winked, and the air is electrified. The one looks questioningly at the other, and the other at the first. With what chagrin, for at another time and place I could have been flogged or cast out -- or worse.

Because in my hands is a crimson, pentagrammed, horned Satanic sigil.

I could devour bureaucracy like a wolf.
I haven't any respect for documents.
Let whatever official papers there may be go to any deities you may need and to their mothers.

But this...

I take it from my pocket like the replica or a priceless cargo.

Study it. Read it. Envy it.

I... am a Satanist, and this card, my passport, proclaims me a Citizen of the Infernal Empire. a pioneer in a brave new world.

. Anton Szandor LaVey





_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#38738 - 05/22/10 07:18 PM Anton's Personal Card [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2521
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
You and I have seen the hypocritical (arguably ignorantly so) world's operation on the "satanic plane," all the while proclaiming its godliness and purity as they gather around their campfires to sing Kumbayah while plotting the demise of the guy next to them. They reject their nature for that spiritual pipe dream, as most of the world walks around with blinders on, and probably as they should. Unfortunately, we've seen the caretakers of the dream abrogating their responsibilities in the development and implementation of any kind of real Satanic philosophical infrastructure in favor of political posturing, interpersonal game playing and nest feathering.

The Church of Satan confronted a terrible dilemma: It had created/found/tripped-over the key to the deification of humanity. But in seeking to present and share it, we began to realize that most people are psychologically and ethically unprepared to handle it. As Thomas Hobbes & Jean-Jacques Rousseau realized, the slave religions and repressive social laws of profane society are really there for that reason; their absence would not lead to a New Age or Marxist paradise, but to a nightmare:

 Originally Posted By: Captain Nemo, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Think of it. On the surface there is hunger and fear. Men still exercise unjust laws. They fight, tear one another to pieces. A mere few feet beneath the waves their reign ceases, their evil drowns. Here on the ocean floor is the only independence. Here I am free! Imagine what would happen if they controlled machines such as this submarine boat. Far better that they think there's a monster and hunt me with harpoons.

Anton had begun to see this among avowed Satanists as well: You convince someone that he's a god accountable to no one except himself, and suddenly he starts to act like Trelane. By 1974 he had begun to fear that the Church as a "school of Satanism" was inviable, because the wise exercise of Black Magic required more intellectual discipline and practical experience that it could possibly provide. He had himself as his own best example: He was who and what he was in 1966 as the result of decades of hard work and hard knocks, not because he "read a book, joined a group, and got a card".

Thus by 1974 Anton was already starting to close down the Church of Satan as a functioning institution, using its positive accomplishments and reputation to recreate it as an idealized fantasy (the "Movement"), which he could then easily portray purely for propagandistic, image-enhancing, and personal-profit purposes. This wasn't obvious at the time, and it seems to have been a gradual metamorphosis even for Anton himself, but retrospectively both the transformation and the reasoning underlying it are quite clear. The 1975 crisis was the result of a point of incompatibility between these "two Church of Satans": the original one that had been built up since 1966 and the sort of Stepford Wives re-design [with bigger tits].

Concerning all of which poor "Magus" Peter Gilmore is, like a docile Eloi, blissfully clueless.

 Originally Posted By: Jake
To some degree, I'll admit that I have to cop my plea in this regard. While I've always maintained my loyalty and my adherence to "the dream," and I've fought tooth and nail for it at times, but I'll always have that self incrimination that I could have done more. I could always have done something... whatever that something could have been. And it's disheartening as hell at times to see the promise of what was degenerate into a simple clique in black that changed a warship into dinghy, pretending it's a yacht.

The Titanic had already struck the iceberg long before you arrived on deck, and no amount of rearranging the deck chairs would have changed the inevitable. You handled the lifeboats responsibly while you were in charge of them, and no more than that could have been asked of you.

I, on the other hand, was there when we hit the iceberg, and I was too blind and too stupid to see it coming. Otherwise maybe, just maybe, we could have steered around it; and then the Church of Satan you encountered would by then have been unsinkable.

 Originally Posted By: Jake
I still share the dream, and would love (and that is a word I use as sparingly as I can) see it come to fruition. I wonder how long it will take us to achieve it, given the somatization of those who must carry the banner forward... and I'm talking both in the intellectual AND pharmaceutical sense. So many that should be clear eyed and aware have sold themselves out for a few grams of substances or personal delusions!

 Originally Posted By: Conchis, in John Fowles' The Magus
Whenever I see a photograph of a teeming horde of Chinese peasants, or of some military procession, whenever I see a cheap newspaper crammed with advertisements for mass-produced rubbish. Or the rubbish itself that large stores sell. Whenever I see the horrors of the pax Americana, of civilizations condemned to century after century of mediocrity because of over-population and under-education, I see also de Deukans. Whenever I see lack of space and lack of grace, I think of him. One day, many millennia from now, there will perhaps be a world in which there are only such châteaux, or their equivalents, and such men and women. And instead of their having to grow, like mushrooms, from a putrescent compost of inequality and exploitation, they will come from an evolution as controlled and ordered as de Deukans’ tiny world at Givray-le-Duc. Apollo will reign again. And Dionysus will return to the shadows from which he came.

 Originally Posted By: Jake
But to get back on track with people wanting that "red card," I want to post something of LaVey's from the September/October VIII A,S. (1973 for you heathens) Cloven Hoof that shows the impact that it USED to have.

 Originally Posted By: Anton Szandor LaVey
SOCIAL REACTION TO A Church of Satan MEMBERSHIP CARD

I... am a Satanist, and this card, my passport, proclaims me a Citizen of the Infernal Empire. a pioneer in a brave new world.

I remember falling over laughing when Anton gave me that essay to print. He looked at me quizzically, and I said, "Well, that sure doesn't reflect the card you carry!", whereupon he started to laugh too. [Here it is, blown up a bit so you can see the artwork.]
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#38740 - 05/22/10 07:42 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Adversary Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 93
To Jake and Aquino, I am sure you have heard Valentines feelings toward topics like this. I am just curious what you think of his views regarding things like this.

Not intended as a derail.


Edited by Adversary (05/22/10 07:44 PM)

Top
#38741 - 05/22/10 08:27 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
LOL! I had forgotten all about his black trapezoidal card!

Believe it or not, we also had those as a prototype, later on, in red, but with the standard Church of Satan verbiage. The problem is, they were toooooooo friggin' big to fit in any wallet known to man. One night we were sitting in the kitchen talking about ideas that sounded good but didn't translate into reality and LaVey brought out a stack of them. We passed them around and he said that he had never even signed one, and didn't know if the signature would look good in silver or black... so he did one with my name first in silver and then traced over it in black. It just didn't work.

He gave it to me and I'm pretty sure he disposed of the rest. I subsequently gave my card to Xear (owner of The 600 Club) as a memento,
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#38742 - 05/22/10 08:30 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Adversary]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Adversary
To Jake and Aquino, I am sure you have heard Valentines feelings toward topics like this. I am just curious what you think of his views regarding things like this.


Just Anton LaVey when the humor hit him. This is far from the most bizarre and funny thing I'd seen from him. He had a way of not taking himself that seriously.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#39131 - 06/06/10 10:41 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Jake999]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
Both the Temple of Set and Church of Satan are presumably financially unimpaired, well-known, "left-handed" religious institutions. Functioning as illumed havens for practioners of the Dark Arts/Black Magic, there are obvious fine discrepancies between the two. Some of the information is made accessible to the public through varied fascicles, and other facts or data is not. These concerns pertain to an administrative staff which laborously works day-in and day-out at providing solace to it's members world-wide, and logically try to finalize issues. While I am aware that there are cohorts that operate like a phalanx and that work against vitiating there respective organizations, personally---I'm not preoccupied with tuning-up the engine for reasons I can extrapolate on, but don't want to. Just do not become prosaic and banal places of thought and action!!! I'm almost certain there are safeguards in place to not alow that to happen. The Black Magic that emanates from both greatly impacts on my sense of self! ( ;\) to others as well.)
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

Top
#39593 - 06/27/10 02:06 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
NeoZombie Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/21/10
Posts: 60
Loc: Minnesota, USA
In this day and age these ingrates want something for free. They grow up being taught that the love of christ is free and love everyone so much he let himself die. I have no problem paying for my membership with CoS. Would be more than honored to sacrifice a few bones to give to the fellowship of Dark Doctrine. I agree with any charges for membership. If you need a relative comparison it's cheaper than tithe. Plus it helps keep the idiots outside the doors.

Edited by NeoZombie (06/27/10 02:10 PM)
Edit Reason: wrong place
_________________________
http://www.faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/
*Xepera*

Top
#39596 - 06/27/10 02:38 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: NeoZombie]
Zophos Offline
member


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
 Quote:
Would be more than honored to sacrifice a few bones to give to the fellowship of Dark Doctrine.

Cui bono?


 Quote:
If you need a relative comparison it's cheaper than tithe.

And?


 Quote:
Plus it helps keep the idiots outside the doors.

Virtually anyone can pay the $200 amount and become a member. How is that an example of stratification?


Z.
_________________________
Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

Top
#39613 - 06/28/10 12:48 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: NeoZombie]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
I would actually say that the fee allows the random knuckleheads to get their "red card" of instant gratification, while keeping them at an arm's distance. The process of actually becoming a contributing member is undoubtedly a bit more complex.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#39616 - 06/28/10 02:30 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: The Zebu]
Zophos Offline
member


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
While true, that begs the question of why the Church of Satan would want to let them in at all. Whether the Church's administration interacts with such members or not, diluting the membership quality of an organization by opening its gates for everyone who can cogently fill out a loopy application is senseless. It is easy to conclude that the Church is simply fleecing the gullible, and perhaps it is, but by granting them membership and thus associating with them officially (something they don't allow members to do with Setians, non-LaVeyan Satanists, or even the 600 Club unofficially), they are only projecting a demeanor of incompetence, flaccidity, and superficial extortion. Is this not, de facto if not de jure, the same tune played by the Right-Hand Path?

The Church of Satan may be an entity of individual accomplishment, but what thinking person would pay to join an organization that allows the unrestricted influx of nitwits? I ask again, cui bono? Their own policies and practices make abundantly clear that reputation matters to them, as it should—why then the contradiction?


Z.
_________________________
Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

Top
#39622 - 06/28/10 07:20 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: The Zebu]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I am not a member of The Church of Satan, but I can understand why some people would want to become members.

Many people who join the CoS want to join to show their support for the organisation which Dr.LaVey founded and ran and which to a certain extent represents the Satanic philosophy which they hold dear.

Many of these people realise that an organisation like the CoS requires money in order to keep going. Every organisation is going to have costs which it must meet and one way of showing support for the CoS is in providing financial support.

From what I can see the CoS doesn't solicit or demand that people join, in fact they are quite happy to tell someone to go get lost.

The key to being a member of The Church of Satan, I think, is to make it worthwhile by getting stuck in and doing something.

Having said that though many members may just want to show support for LaVey's organisation and not have anything further to do with it. I personally don't see anything wrong with that.

I personally have nothing against the Church of Satan or any other Satanic organisation.

Top
#39623 - 06/28/10 07:28 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: ]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Oops I just wanted to add: the CoS questionaire for active membership is a little bit more sophisticated than some may think.

A careful study of The Compleat Witch and how it relates to the application questions would be a good idea.

Registered membership may be relatively easy to attain, but active membership is a touch more difficult.

Top
#39630 - 06/28/10 02:10 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Zophos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I think it probably has something to do with the fact that the $200 fee is non-refundable. Sure, anyone can fill out the application and send in the money but anyone can also have their application rejected for any reason and will never see the money again. CoS, in my mind, is first and foremost a business, that being the case it is easy to see that profit is their goal.

Me, I can think of a million other things I would rather spend $200 on. Things that are more important to me than a red card or certain associations ever could be.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#67395 - 06/18/12 11:06 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
cobiacus666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/11/12
Posts: 5
Loc: Michigan
Why should you pay to be a member of a church?
in that regard its no better than ''christianty''(this is just my opinion)
i dont really affiliate with any religon tho i am wiccan
_________________________
underworld was the twilight for adults \:\)

Top
#67404 - 06/18/12 05:58 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: cobiacus666]
REDRUM666 Offline
banned
stranger


Registered: 06/04/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Beltrami County, USA
I am a member of the mormon church. Not because I think that crap it true but I really think Joesph Smith was an un-realized Satanist. Ad if you want to get technical "holy commune" is really a form of Vampirism. So is helping the sick and downtrodden over come the strong by taking your's and my Tax-Dollars to level the playing field is also Vampirism. However I am always aware while in church that my soul is "un-saved" and that those old ladies in church are really... I go to church so that i can get someone to argue with me about where I'm standing in the Universe.

REDRUM.

PS Wicca is now a bona-fide religion that must be honored in the military, where as Satanism is not allowed in any U.S. prison by federal law(;
_________________________
VITAMULTIN...

Top
#67412 - 06/18/12 11:12 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: REDRUM666]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"PS Wicca is now a bona-fide religion that must be honored in the military, where as Satanism is not allowed in any U.S. prison by federal law(;"


Really, are you quite sure about that?
Maybe you should do a bit more research.

So, lets see, to sum you up: You are a wiccian wanna-be-vampire playing house at a mormon church, who plays with knives, and is trying to fit your beliefs in here without having a fucking clue about Satanism and what it means. While getting over your fathers untimely death and trying to sue your mom for money she doesn't want you to have because she thinks you are a devil worshipper.

Did I leave anything out?
I hate fucking kindergarten drama.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#67446 - 06/19/12 09:03 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Morgan]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 509
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
"PS Wicca is now a bona-fide religion that must be honored in the military, where as Satanism is not allowed in any U.S. prison by federal law(;"


Really, are you quite sure about that?
Maybe you should do a bit more research.

So, lets see, to sum you up: You are a wiccian wanna-be-vampire playing house at a mormon church, who plays with knives, and is trying to fit your beliefs in here without having a fucking clue about Satanism and what it means. While getting over your fathers untimely death and trying to sue your mom for money she doesn't want you to have because she thinks you are a devil worshipper.

Did I leave anything out?
I hate fucking kindergarten drama.

Morgan
Hi Morgan,
Would you know exactly which LHP systems are considered "legal" religions in at least the USA? Not that it matters, but it would be interesting.

Top
#67472 - 06/20/12 02:44 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Oxus]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Jake and Aquino have been recognized as Satanists in the Military since the Vietnam war.

Pagans are recognized.
Setians are recognized.

I remembering seeing information about lawsuits that were won regarding being able to practice Satanism in jail.

Any religion can be legal,if you put in the necessary paperwork.

M.
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#67493 - 06/20/12 12:16 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Morgan]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Any religion can be legal,if you put in the necessary paperwork.


^
^

Exactly THIS.

You see, we have this little thing called the First Amendment to the Constitution. And this contains a little thing called the "free exercise" clause.

Anywho . . .

JK
_________________________



Top
#70683 - 09/08/12 06:50 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Jason King]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
Courts have rendered mixed verdicts regarding the practice of Satanism in prison. Note how courts distinguished the following cases:

In McCorkle v. Johnson, 881 F.2d 993 (1989), the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said Alabama prison officials did not violate the free exercise rights of an inmate by denying him access to The Satanic Bible. “The teachings of The Satanic Bible ... present a significant threat to security and order within the prison,” it warned.

But as an Illinois judge has noted, the plaintiff in that case “held an extreme view on Satanism that called for human sacrifice, drinking of blood, wrist slashing and consuming the flesh of humans while they were still alive.” Semla v. Snyder.

Jail settles with inmate over access to TSB

There have been, to date, a number of both successful and unsuccessful suits. The tension in the courts seems to be between the free exercise clause and public safety concerns (aka a legitimate penological interest). Overall, the issue has never been truly resolved. I would encourage any prisoner to sue on these grounds if denied free exercise of *any* religion. Just be aware that public safety has been used as a rationale to deny said rights.

_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

Top
#70693 - 09/08/12 03:29 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Le Deluge]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
This issue bugs the shit out of me.
First off, I seriously doubt that those who claim that TSB is dangerous have actually read it.
If the TSB can be banned then the holy bible should definitely be banned, and perhaps the Koran as well . They have a lot more violence and “evil” in them then TSB. But most of us already know this.
I believe that a decent lawyer could argue in favor of TSB simply by comparing it to the other two books and bringing up specific points where each suggest that violence and hate is advocated.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#70698 - 09/09/12 02:51 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Asmedious]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
 Quote:
First off, I seriously doubt that those who claim that TSB is dangerous have actually read it.
If the TSB can be banned then the holy bible should definitely be banned, and perhaps the Koran as well .

Discussions and lawsuits concerning books always had more to do with popular view and standing as what is actually written.
You're right they probably didn't read TSB (or rarely or only parts of it) on the other side, same applies for the Bible and Koran.

Depending on the zone living in, everything linked to Satanism will result in the automated buzzword "no" to appeal to public opinion. From that point on it's only a matter of finding excuses why it is a no.

The rare cases TSB was allowed are most of the time places where a certain neutrality is considered or a non-caring from the public is happening.

It doesn't bother me, books are but pages and they can try to ban the shit out of it. There are always other methods to acquire it and even if taken (after reading) I wouldn't mind since the information is already known to me.

 Quote:
There have been, to date, a number of both successful and unsuccessful suits. The tension in the courts seems to be between the free exercise clause and public safety concerns (aka a legitimate penological interest). Overall, the issue has never been truly resolved. I would encourage any prisoner to sue on these grounds if denied free exercise of *any* religion. Just be aware that public safety has been used as a rationale to deny said rights.

If such lawsuits follow 3/4 are more for disturbing shit than actual wanting to..
Only hearing inmates filing lawsuits to have acces to their "holy" works makes me think they deserve a harsher punishment.
They're in fucking jail, their freedom taken away for whatever crime they committed. Sometimes it has to be learned to simply put up and shut up to be in the best interest.


Edited by Dimitri (09/09/12 03:02 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#70700 - 09/09/12 05:12 AM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Dimitri]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
[quote=Dimitri]
 Quote:

If such lawsuits follow 3/4 are more for disturbing shit than actual wanting to..
Only hearing inmates filing lawsuits to have acces to their "holy" works makes me think they deserve a harsher punishment.
They're in fucking jail, their freedom taken away for whatever crime they committed. Sometimes it has to be learned to simply put up and shut up to be in the best interest.


The questions previous posters posed: Do these religions have legal recognition in the United States ... they do. Can they be practiced in jail ... Mixed results. A prisoner has the right to petition under the free exercise clause. Your opinions as to whether they should be able to, whether many are frivolous (I agree with you there, but those are our personal opinions), or whether additional punitive measures should be taken ... are irrelevant (as are mine)

I stated the law as it stands and what recourse a prisoner may have. No more. No less.

_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

Top
#70709 - 09/09/12 03:58 PM Re: Anton's Personal Card [Re: Dimitri]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Only hearing inmates filing lawsuits to have acces to their "holy" works makes me think they deserve a harsher punishment.
They're in fucking jail, their freedom taken away for whatever crime they committed. Sometimes it has to be learned to simply put up and shut up to be in the best interest.



Fine by me, but in that case, all "Holy" books that refer to any kind of violence should follow the same rules.
Personally I would enjoy seeing the shit that would hit the fan if instead of fighting for someone's right to read TSB in jail, a lawyer would go after the other Holy books using the same presedents that were used against TSB.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#70723 - 09/10/12 10:21 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: 111Cal]
Ignotum Offline
Intellectual Black Hole
stranger


Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: 111Cal
The role and titles of "active" members in the current CoS is a joke. The questionaire that is sent out is not in depth or logical at all. It is basically just a lot of useless information that proves or disproves nothing. The majority of those who become "active" members do so because they know someone else who is an active member.... I.E. they are friends of a friend ALLREADY active and want to "join the club".... does anyone really think that Peter Gilmore or anyone of note in the CoS actually reads through all those and finds some nuggests of wisdom that qualify you as active???

The only ones who are chosen to be "active" are either friends of friends... or those with some skill to contribute... IE someone with a specific career or talent that can be useful to the COS or one of its media entities......


The Church of Satan has five degrees:
1. Satanist
2. Master
3. Priest
4. Magister
5. Magus

When you become an active member, then, immediately you are a "satanist" (first degree) and it only proofs that you understand the satanic principles described in the Satanic Bible.
_________________________
The highest plateau of human development is the awareness of the flesh.

Top
#70748 - 09/10/12 11:07 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Ignotum]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"When you become an active member, then, immediately you are a "satanist" (first degree) and it only proofs that you understand the satanic principles described in the Satanic Bible."

You don't need to join any organization in order to be a Satanist.

Sending 200 bucks to an organization doesn't prove you are a Satanist or that you understand the book at all.

If you disagree with just about anything on the CoS website, you get kicked from the club and your little red card means even less.

Good luck on your path. There is a lot of information available on this site I hope you learn something new.

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#70763 - 09/11/12 10:52 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Morgan]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
Regarding the OP: You definitely don't have to join any organization to walk the LHP as satanist, luciferian, or otherwise. It is something one would do only after careful thought (I hope). I'll take it further when I review part of the Admin's book. The organizing principles of CoS are something some of the newer folks here need to be aware of. It will definitely save potential grief if people are clear on these points.
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

Top
#70768 - 09/11/12 12:56 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Ignotum]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
In addition to what Morgan said I'd only offer a small correction. A 2nd degree in the C/S is a Witch/Warlock, not a master.

I never got past the idea of being a staunch individualist with a need for validation from an outside source. If one truly is an individualist then a 'Church of Satan' in its current form is anathema.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

Top
#70770 - 09/11/12 01:09 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Morgan]
Ignotum Offline
Intellectual Black Hole
stranger


Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 17
 Quote:
You don't need to join any organization in order to be a Satanist.

I know and the CoS says the same.
"Satanist" in the sense that I said is just the title of a degree.
 Quote:
If you disagree with just about anything on the CoS website, you get kicked from the club and your little red card means even less.

That is not true.

By the way about "my path" let me tell you that I am not a CoS member (I disagree in a lot of things with the CoS) If I could be a member of a "Church" that "Church" may be the First Satanic Church.
_________________________
The highest plateau of human development is the awareness of the flesh.

Top
#70771 - 09/11/12 01:14 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Fnord]
Ignotum Offline
Intellectual Black Hole
stranger


Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
In addition to what Morgan said I'd only offer a small correction. A 2nd degree in the C/S is a Witch/Warlock, not a master.

Yes, sorry. It was my mistake
_________________________
The highest plateau of human development is the awareness of the flesh.

Top
#70783 - 09/11/12 02:24 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Ignotum]
Erich Zann Offline
member


Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
 Originally Posted By: Ignotum
 Quote:
If you disagree with just about anything on the CoS website, you get kicked from the club and your little red card means even less.


That is not true.


And your source for that knowledge is which one? I mean, lots of people correspondingly experienced what Morgan said, so how do you know that this is not true?
_________________________
The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail Satan!".

-Bart Simpson

Top
#70792 - 09/11/12 07:02 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Erich Zann]
Ignotum Offline
Intellectual Black Hole
stranger


Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: Erich Zann
 Originally Posted By: Ignotum
 Quote:
If you disagree with just about anything on the CoS website, you get kicked from the club and your little red card means even less.


That is not true.


And your source for that knowledge is which one? I mean, lots of people correspondingly experienced what Morgan said, so how do you know that this is not true?



Sorry. I can't tell you my source. I just tell you that my source is more reliable than any other \:\)
_________________________
The highest plateau of human development is the awareness of the flesh.

Top
#70803 - 09/12/12 11:27 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Ignotum]
Erich Zann Offline
member


Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
Ah, the "my source is so damn secret that I can't tell you but it is the best!" - haven't seen that in a while. Sorry, but arguments like that normally are obvious signs of trolls or braggers who have absolutely nothing to offer. If you claim something, be ready to prove it. If you can't/don't want to prove it, don't claim it.

Or is your source the ToV membership you mentioned in another thread? If it is, well, being in the ToV doesn't mean that you know how CoS deals with their members. And on a side note it doesn't even mean that you know how the ToV is run - as far as I remember, everyone who buys their overpriced leaflet will be made a member.
_________________________
The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail Satan!".

-Bart Simpson

Top
#70804 - 09/12/12 11:28 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Erich Zann]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Erich Zann
 Originally Posted By: Ignotum
 Quote:
If you disagree with just about anything on the CoS website, you get kicked from the club and your little red card means even less.


That is not true.


And your source for that knowledge is which one? I mean, lots of people correspondingly experienced what Morgan said, so how do you know that this is not true?



Read this and this to get it from the horse's mouth.

An important quote:
 Originally Posted By: COS website
A word to the wise: since Satanism is a philosophy which holds individualism as one of its main values, we don’t expect all of our members to agree on everything, or even to “get along” with each other. Thus, you are cautioned that you might find some differences of opinion in these discussions. Satanism, by definition, is a philosophy in which you won’t find “group hugs” as part of the repertoire. Also, since only a very small percentage of our members choose to interact with people online, it would be an error to think that your online experience is necessarily a reflection upon what your personal experience as an affiliated member of the Church of Satan might be. That is an Is-To-Be that is in the hands of each individual who chooses to join. The Red Card of membership is just a key—it is up to you to open the door and earn the attention of those already in the organization through the superiority of your thinking and the quality of your real world accomplishments.

Additionally, if you consider yourself a Satanist but you have not affiliated with the Church of Satan, do not expect us to promote your wares or spend time in any extended exchanges with you. Quid pro quo is the Satanic principle of exchange.


But yes, if you act in ways that are contrary to CoS philosophy, you will be disaffiliated. This is actually good business, though, when you really think about it.

JK (who will never be a red-carder)
_________________________



Top
#70805 - 09/12/12 11:30 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Erich Zann]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
@Erich: I reviewed the limited ToV text I have available. He may want to reread it. I had planned to let the topic die. It was mostly about the organizational relationship. He is treading down the troll's path. The actual material is a bit different than what he is reporting.
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

Top
#70806 - 09/12/12 11:34 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Jason King]
Erich Zann Offline
member


Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
 Originally Posted By: Erich Zann
 Originally Posted By: Ignotum
 Quote:
If you disagree with just about anything on the CoS website, you get kicked from the club and your little red card means even less.


That is not true.


And your source for that knowledge is which one? I mean, lots of people correspondingly experienced what Morgan said, so how do you know that this is not true?



Read this and this to get it from the horse's mouth.


I'm well aware of what the CoS says on its website. But it's a difference if you kick members out because of them acting inconsistent with the rules the Church applies or if you do that because, what a few people reported, they are spotted on this board for example.


Edited by Erich Zann (09/12/12 11:34 AM)
_________________________
The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail Satan!".

-Bart Simpson

Top
#70807 - 09/12/12 11:36 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Jason King]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
@JK: I don't object to their organizing principles either. I do hope some of these younger posters read them. I have a copy of the current admin's book. It is in storage (with most of my remaining books), but I will make it very obvious to the neophyte what is actually meant by it (My good deed for the week I suppose \:\)
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

Top
#70808 - 09/12/12 11:42 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Erich Zann]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Erich Zann
I'm well aware of what the CoS says on its website. But it's a difference if you kick members out because of them acting inconsistent with the rules the Church applies or if you do that because, what a few people reported, they are spotted on this board for example.


I seriously doubt anyone was booted from the CoS simply for being a member of the 600 Club. In fact, I think that would be a tall order to prove, although you have a chance. Whenever anyone is disaffiliated, they receive a letter of notification. And here we are in open exchange, and ANYONE can come forward with such documentation and shut me up quick, fast, and in a hurry.

Until such time, however, I'll consider this little more than anecdotal garbage.

JK
_________________________



Top
#70837 - 09/13/12 04:51 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Jason King]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
There was (is?) serious animosity between the Club and Lttd which had its high more than a decade ago. Their members better did not join here unless prepared to suffer eventual consequences.

If that went as far as the CoS itself is unknown to me but Xear's friendship with Karla surely puts the Club in the opposing camp.

D.

Top
#70838 - 09/13/12 07:04 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Diavolo]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
Sounds like personal enmity. Who cares about websites? The kids coming here should just contact them then.
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

Top
#70971 - 09/17/12 10:06 PM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Le Deluge]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
I'll never be a red carder either though I do visit LTTD on a rare occasion and have met a few people there that I maintain contact with.

As soon as I found this place though I pretty much abandoned all activity there. There are some bright minds there but they seem steeped in the lore of the 'church' and in their reverence for ASL.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

Top
#71618 - 10/08/12 01:09 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: Fnord]
aerial_dc Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 79
MatthewJ1, I agree.
I don't think the CoS does a bad job of representing the ideas of Anton LaVey. On the website, interviews and writings they are representing the ideas while making a little money to support the work they're doing. I wouldn't pay $200 dollars for a card but I WOULD pay $200 to support Satanism being represented in mainstream media for an ongoing period of time. I don't see anyone presenting Lavey's ideas to the masses more than I see Peter Gilmore doing it. The only way to be seen on this massive scale is to have the money and organization skills to make it happen. How many people have a card anyway? I doubt they've become billionaires by selling them.

Not that the FSC or other Satanic organizations don't deserve support. I'm not saying bigger is better either. Satanists don't need to join anything to be Satanists. I've always seen The card as an obvious donation option. I suppose also a way to get money out of clueless idiots seeking status. For someone who want involvement, I'm assuming $200 dollars is nothing compared to the hard work ahead of him/her.
_________________________
Not about to see your light.

Top
#71637 - 10/08/12 10:54 AM Re: For those who say anyone can get into the CoS [Re: aerial_dc]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
I never quite understood the hyper-concentration on the $200. It is a trivial sum. I'd look more to whether the organization resonates with you in its current format. Reading Gilmore's Satanic Scriptures may be helpful in this regard. He lays out it out fairly succinctly.
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

Top
Page all of 4 1234>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.07 seconds of which 0.003 seconds were spent on 69 queries. Zlib compression disabled.