Page 2 of 5 <12345>
Topic Options
#52246 - 04/06/11 02:17 AM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Khk]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I don’t think the Temple of Set can be compared to the ONA and I say that as a reasonably objective outsider, as a non-member of either organisation.

One is focused on the meaning and experience of touching the monolith, of what the monolith is. It is all about a genuine initiation into a profound personal journey; while the other is seemingly dedicated to chaos, destruction and culling. The ONA does not seem to have much of a relation to the pragmatic and the realistic. It seems to place amorality far above common sense and reality.

The Temple of Set is far more noble and its scholarship is more impressive than anything the ONA has or can produce. The (publicly available, which I have seen) resources which it provides the initiate with are very powerful tools if they are understood correctly.

Some Temple members, who have a public presence, are academics or were academics, with a strong body of work and vast amount of LHP knowledge and general life experience behind them. I am not sure who the ONA are and what sort of experience and knowledge they bring to the table.

People may not share the same metaphysical position as a Priest/Priestess of Set, but the Temple can teach people a lot about Satanism and its history, along with a wide variety of other topics of interest. The tools they offer are rather wonderful, complex and beautifully dark and quite adaptable. I am sorry to say it, but the ONA just aren’t up to scratch in my view.

I think its wrong to try to compare them.

(Am currently reading Childhood’s End by A.C. Clarke and wish to review it as a part of a larger process of reflecting on the monolith and the gift. This is another good one off the reading list)

Top
#52248 - 04/06/11 02:32 AM Re: Temple of Set [Re: ]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
I don’t think the Temple of Set can be compared to the ONA and I say that as a reasonably objective outsider, as a non-member of either organisation.

+O+ It depends whether you are comparing the outward manifesatation of forms that comprise their external form which comes After the fact of the Tension, or the esoteric processes that shaped the two Mages which comes Before the fact of the Tension - which my essay illustrates are virtually identical. What comes After the tension is personal, opinion, will, 23 syndrome - and will be endlessly argued as each vies for authenticity in a percieved objective stage/manner. That messy labyrinth is of no consequence in the analysis. How the experiences they shared affected them is individual - i.e. what those experiences caused them to think do or write is different - but again that is not of consequence to the points being made in the essay.+O+

One is focused on the meaning and experience of touching the monolith, of what the monolith is. It is all about a genuine initiation into a profound personal journey; while the other is seemingly dedicated to chaos, destruction and culling. The ONA does not seem to have much of a relation to the pragmatic and the realistic. It seems to place amorality far above common sense and reality.

+O+ The way the identical experiences touched each men did create very different strains of Satanism/setianism that have nothing in common. Those forms are not the focus. +O+

The Temple of Set is far more noble and its scholarship is more impressive than anything the ONA has or can produce.

+O+ Opinion. Your opinion, and maybe that of others - opinion, in the process of forms is a flawed premise, it has nothing to do with what actually happened - just what is favoured to have happened. +O+

The (publicly available, which I have seen) resources which it provides the initiate with are very powerful tools if they are understood correctly.

+O+ I dont dispute that. But that is beside the point. +O+

Some Temple members, who have a public presence, are academics or were academics, with a strong body of work and vast amount of LHP knowledge and general life experience behind them. I am not sure who the ONA are and what sort of experience and knowledge they bring to the table.

+O+ Opinion. That too is irrelevent though you should perhaps not be casting aspersions on the superiority of the TOS without knwoing anything about the ONA. +O+

People may not share the same metaphysical position as a Priest/Priestess of Set, but the Temple can teach people a lot about Satanism and its history, along with a wide variety of other topics of interest. The tools they offer are rather wonderful, complex and beautifully dark and quite adaptable. I am sorry to say it, but the ONA just aren’t up to scratch in my view.

+O+ Again, that is not the issue. That may be true or false or a mixture of both - I do not care about the merit of either - I am illustrating that their formative experiences share identical traits and speaking about what creates Forms. +O+

I think its wrong to try to compare them.

+O+ Lol. I think I shall be here for a very long time trying to earth this acausal science owing to the stubborn habit of opinion to get in the way of detached observation. +O+

(Am currently reading Childhood’s End by A.C. Clarke and wish to review it as a part of a larger process of reflecting on the monolith and the gift. This is another good one off the reading list)

Top
#52249 - 04/06/11 02:37 AM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Khk]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



+O+ Lol. I think I shall be here for a very long time trying to earth this acausal science owing to the stubborn habit of opinion to get in the way of detached observation. +O+


Yes, you will be here for a long time trying to successfully argue your point (your personal opinion)

Carry on.


Edited by MatthewJ1 (04/06/11 03:07 AM)
Edit Reason: Marked

Top
#52256 - 04/06/11 04:07 AM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Khk]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
While I am a fan of stimulating personal endeavors and research on various subjects, I find it a bit boring to see the arguing about subjective perspectives a bit dull due the lack of depth.

A bit of a cliché to say but: "each their own".. The tensions some of ONA have with TOS is purely fabricated out of personal preferences. You'll quite soon notice when you'll "investigate" the 2 a bit closer.

Besides, I heard the both of them calling each other Nazis or accusing of National Socialist ideas/fandom...


Edited by Dimitri (04/06/11 04:09 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#52265 - 04/06/11 08:46 AM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Dimitri]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Besides, I heard the both of them calling each other Nazis or accusing of National Socialist ideas/fandom...


Calling someone a Nazi is popularly considered the ultimate insult because the Nazis are popularly considered the worstest-most-baddest folks in recent times.

Most people cannot argue correctly, or cannot take losing in an argument; hence Godwin's Law.

I wonder what you called someone before that ...
_________________________
An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

Top
#52268 - 04/06/11 10:03 AM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Autodidact]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"I wonder what you called someone before that ..."

The same words they use today that are just considered not politically correct.

Comparing the ONA and the TOS, are like comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they are both fruit, but once you taste them, you see the differences.

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#52274 - 04/06/11 12:00 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Autodidact]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Autodidact
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Besides, I heard the both of them calling each other Nazis or accusing of National Socialist ideas/fandom...


Calling someone a Nazi is popularly considered the ultimate insult because the Nazis are popularly considered the worstest-most-baddest folks in recent times.

Most people cannot argue correctly, or cannot take losing in an argument; hence Godwin's Law.

I wonder what you called someone before that ...


A decade ago it was a quite popular technique to "Nazi" someone into silence. When they'd call you a Nazi, you surely must have been saying something wrong. But as with all heavily used power words, it seems to have lost its potency and I'd be surprised if people would still be very bothered about it.

Terrorist I've seen being used quite recently. It might work for some but I sure ain't subject to such flattery.

Before the Nazis, power words were probably more local. Bonepartist sure did it during a certain period.

D.

Top
#52281 - 04/06/11 01:45 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Dimitri]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Besides, I heard the both of them calling each other Nazis or accusing of National Socialist ideas/fandom...

Apart from my own brief correspondence with Myatt over 20 years ago, I don't think the Temple of Set has said anything about him/ONA one way or another. What he and his followers do is absolutely their own business.

As for "Nazism", I gather that Myatt was/is an advocate of its political system. The Temple of Set has never been. Our Order of the Trapezoid includes Germanic history and esotericism among its fields of interest, that's all.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#52300 - 04/06/11 03:17 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Shea Offline
member


Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 108
Loc: Chicago
Any philosophical or religious path which advocates individualism and self-development inherently cannot be "Nazi." National Socialism is a derivative of collectivism, and deals with people in groups, not individually.
Personally, I find Germanic esotericism fascinating and have thoroughly enjoyed reading Thorsson's works on the runes and Eddic mythology. Of course, I've never picked up a socialistic vibe from him.

Top
#52305 - 04/06/11 03:27 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Shea]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Shea
Any philosophical or religious path which advocates individualism and self-development inherently cannot be "Nazi." National Socialism is a derivative of collectivism, and deals with people in groups, not individually.


Following that logic; does this imply that anyone that advocates democracy or democratic principles can't be satanic?

D.

Top
#52308 - 04/06/11 04:50 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Yes, a "democrat" cannot be Satanic-- that is, if he holds democracy as the fundamental axis of civilization like the popular narrative would like us to believe.

That said, a Satanist only concerns himself with politics as a tool. There is no inherent limitation to the sorts of ideologies that one can support towards his personal ends. That is, while he is at liberty to endorse democracy because of its tendencies towards tolerant pluralism and certain social freedoms, he is likewise equally free to oppose it if he finds its capitalistic excesses and egalitarianism distasteful.

So in general, a Satanist can support any political party he is inclined towards, but to cleave unquestioningly to any particular system as a fundamental "truth" would be rather un-Satanic.

The ONA apply this utilitarian stance to the long-term progress of humanity as a whole, since they aim to radically alter human society towards their idea of a "higher evolution".

Most Satanists in general, however, tend to stick to the individualistic level, and not concern themselves with such metaphysical narratives of human progress.

I am not entirely sure what the Temple of Set's "big picture" stance is towards aeonics, so I unfortunately cannot elucidate upon this.


Edited by The Zebu (04/06/11 04:53 PM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#52309 - 04/06/11 05:04 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
That's the important part to remember; politics is a tool, a means to an end, and the support or advocacy of any sort of political system or ideology can perfectly serve a satanist. But of course, the very motivation behind the endorsement defines if it remains satanic.

As such, for the position of groups, the same applies.

D.

Top
#52352 - 04/07/11 03:45 AM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: M.A.A.
As for "Nazism", I gather that Myatt was/is an advocate of its political system. The Temple of Set has never been. Our Order of the Trapezoid includes Germanic history and esotericism among its fields of interest, that's all.

As far as you know...
There are self-appointed followers of the philosophy of Set who probably think German history is limited towards Na.So. Can't say I really care about it anyway and am quite certain that the word-throwing competition was between self-appointed members without any real affilation. But still, there's always the possibility.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#52368 - 04/07/11 11:15 AM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Diavolo]
Shea Offline
member


Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 108
Loc: Chicago
Certainly not Diavolo; Satanism and democracy aren't exclusive. In my estimation, true Republicanism is likely the most workable form of government but our present system of (relative) democracy is decent enough.
I'll never wax romantic about the wonders of democracy and its noble establishment of egalitarianism, because at its apex it can nothing more than sheer mob-rule but, as a generally speaking, it's provided me with an enjoyable amount of freedom--so, it's good enough.
A tool, is a tool, is a tool; if it gets the job done.

Top
#52379 - 04/07/11 12:58 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Shea]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
As is well known, I'm an advocate of Fascism; a splendid manifestation of Will to Power at the level of States. I rather dislike democracy and consider it an abomination.

An often heard comment is how I can detest democracy and prefer an "opposite" which will never provide me the very freedom the first does. I can only point out that they are quite confused assuming anyone besides myself provides my freedom.

D.

Top
Page 2 of 5 <12345>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.028 seconds of which 0.001 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.