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#52514 - 04/08/11 07:52 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Hegesias]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
Death's head "Totenkopfringe" rings were to be stored in a chest in the Himmler Crypt. This was to symbolize the ongoing membership of the deceased SS.


Which is a little goofy because the Totenkopf was the symbol of the Prussian Hussars. And, Himmler was little more than a wannabe weasel and did not possess the least little bit of warrior ethos.

Of course, we see this nonsense all of the time these days. People dig up ancient symbology and claim it as their own in a sad attempt to pump up there own hollow persona.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#52523 - 04/08/11 09:49 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Fist]
Mister Cage Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 49
Speaking of Himmler, i wonder what ever became of his dagger?

Edited by Mister Cage (04/08/11 09:50 PM)

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#52529 - 04/08/11 10:19 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: Hegesias]
Mister Cage Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 49
You've got me wrong Hegesias... ive traveled the setian path for many years my friend and filled my toolbox. However i have other boxes that are in need of specialized tools not commonly found cultivating in stasis.

So like many others do and should... they create their own units of study and systems of practice. This is not unlike my current structure and philosophy.

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#52535 - 04/09/11 01:06 AM Re: Temple of Set [Re: SinisterMoon]
SatanicVeteran Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 11
Loc: San Francisco

 Quote:
the life-worship of the Third Reich was not what the “Mediterranean” mind understands by this term. The “life” is the life of the state, or more precisely the Volk (perhaps best translated as the “soul of the people”).


I could not agree more! racism is collective.



Edited by SatanicVeteran (04/09/11 01:11 AM)

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#52542 - 04/09/11 04:37 AM Re: Temple of Set [Re: SinisterMoon]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



"Do you have an evidence for this claim of such activities by the SS? For such a claim - now apparently become part of esoteric folklore - does rather contradict the collective folk way at the heart of NS, particularly as Mr Myatt, who personally knew several SS officers including a General, claimed (in his *Occultism and National Socialism*) that NS and Occultism were incompatible and there was no Occultism in the SS." Sinister Moon.

There is a really interesting 2 DVD set, which I found on the Temple's reading list called The Occult History of the Third Reich .

I actually bought the 2 DVD set and was very impressed by it. The DVD's go into quite a bit of detail about the link between the occult and National Socialism, and in the later episodes there is a discussion about Wewelsburg and Himmler and the SS, and the sort of future vision Himmler had for Wewelsburg.

Again, very interesting and I recommend it to you or any other interested person.

An excellent research tool.

To be perfectly honest I have bought quite a lot of the books mentioned in the Temple's reading list under the Fascism and Totalitarian section. This is serious research/study work. It is not meant for the immature or the flippant.

I am interested in the occult and historical significance of NS and the study of principles which interest me alone, but I am not interested in furthering the political program of the Nazi's. And I am damn sure the Temple isn't either.

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#52564 - 04/09/11 03:07 PM Nazi "Occultism" [Re: ]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2516
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
 Originally Posted By: Sinister Moon
Do you have an evidence for this claim of such activities by the SS? For such a claim - now apparently become part of esoteric folklore - does rather contradict the collective folk way at the heart of NS, particularly as Mr Myatt, who personally knew several SS officers including a General, claimed (in his *Occultism and National Socialism*) that NS and Occultism were incompatible and there was no Occultism in the SS.

There is a really interesting 2 DVD set, which I found on the Temple's reading list called The Occult History of the Third Reich .

I actually bought the 2 DVD set and was very impressed by it. The DVD's go into quite a bit of detail about the link between the occult and National Socialism, and in the later episodes there is a discussion about Wewelsburg and Himmler and the SS, and the sort of future vision Himmler had for Wewelsburg ...

To be perfectly honest I have bought quite a lot of the books mentioned in the Temple's reading list under the Fascism and Totalitarian section. This is serious research/study work. It is not meant for the immature or the flippant.

I am interested in the occult and historical significance of NS and the study of principles which interest me alone, but I am not interested in furthering the political program of the Nazi's. And I am damn sure the Temple isn't either.

The entire subject of "Nazi occultism" is something of a misnomer, because "core" National Socialism [as articulated by Hitler] was decidedly materialistic and power-political. He regularly and repeatedly expressed his scorn for and impatience with attempts to mysticize or theocratize the Third Reich.

In another sense, however, the entire Nazi phenomenon was metaphysical, as most recently explored by Peter Levenda iin his Unholy Alliance, and previously by Peter Viereck in his Metapolitics.

Hitler himself was an æsthete and visionary, but essentially within the "conventional" arts as excellently examined here. His one documented interest in Black Magic per se was Ernst Schertel's Magic [about which cf. my review on Amazon].

What passes for "applied occultism" in Nazi Germany was actually two separate endeavors: (1) historic/prehistoric revisionist research, under the auspices of the SS, and (2) experimental science, under both the SS and the military.

Neither Hitler nor Himmler had any use for Christianity, but Hitler was content to just neutralize it politically while the war was ongoing. Cf. this excellent survey.

Himmler didn't want to wait, but also realized the extent to which European civilization was entangled with Judæo-Christianity. What he was interested in was not "occultism" per se, but rather the establishment of an alternative picture of and explanation for humanity's historic development. It was for this reason that he created the Ahnenerbe-SS, and this entire effort is expertly recounted in Heather Pringle's The Master Plan.

In the Introcaution to my Secret of the Lost Ark, I discuss how the supposedly-objective field of archæology is very often the tool of political forces, as in Israel's efforts to establish an "ancient" claim to its 1947-confiscated territory. What the Ahnenerbe was attempting to do was thus not as "unprofessional" as critics like to claim; once again it was just on the losing side of the war.

This is a vast and complex area of inquiry, which I think one can see extends far beyond the daily power-politics of Nazi Germany.

#(2) "Experimental science" is equally fascinating. Early analyses, such as Pennick's Hitler's Secret Sciences are now being refined by works such as Cook's The Hunt for Zero Point and on into really Indiana Jonesy investigations like Farrell's SS Brotherhood of the Bell. And I have previously mentioned some fun online sites, such as Black Sun and The Black Sun.

This is the kind of thing the Temple of Set's Order of the Trapezoid has been exploring since the Wewelsburg Working, and I think you can see it is a far cry from "neo/Nazism".
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#52572 - 04/09/11 05:14 PM Re: Temple of Set [Re: SatanicVeteran]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
 Originally Posted By: SatanicVeteran

 Quote:
the life-worship of the Third Reich was not what the “Mediterranean” mind understands by this term. The “life” is the life of the state, or more precisely the Volk (perhaps best translated as the “soul of the people”).


I could not agree more! racism is collective.

Indeed this is why I could never ever be racist, I treat every single individual with utter suspicion, especially those around me who appear as my friend. Racism speaks of naivety in my view, because who the hell thinks a particular "race" is going to be wholesomely sound and in some way more reliable than earned friends of random races
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#52615 - 04/10/11 03:00 AM Re: Nazi "Occultism" [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
Thanks for the reply.

 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
2 DVD set, which I found on the Temple's reading list called The Occult History of the Third Reich .


While you didn't specifically refer to that material yourself, it may be relevant in our discussion, if only to place it in context. I saw that some years ago now, and from what I remember it was mostly about making NS out as some modern type of religious paganism, with ceremonies of celebration and remembrance and the like.

Which while a point of view, isn't AFAIK academically proven, and isn't about "Black Magical activities" or similar Occult rites.

Since you had written "Black Magical activities of the SS" I was asking about proof of such specific activities.

Like I said, from what I've learned from someone who knew some SS officers, such stuff didn't occur - and I've personally never come any evidence that stands up to academic scrutiny.

So far as the NS Germany and the SS developing a new type of paganism - this was only part of the picture, for many German National Socialists remained Christians, as were many SS officers and soldiers.

Also, to develop some type of religion to supplant Christianity was more a future hope for a few German officials and some NSDAP members than official policy - and what was developed, such as an SS marriage ceremony, was more in the way of an ethos than a religion per se - kind of like the ethos of the Samurai, of Bushido. That is, it was more a desire for a new Western style warrior ethos than anything else - and wasn't in any way "Occult".

But if you have any evidence to the contrary, I'd certainly be interested.


 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
"core" National Socialism [as articulated by Hitler] was decidedly materialistic and power-political


Well I'd have to disagree with you here - I say practical instead. That is, that Hitler was a very practical and resourceful man, a good and natural leader - but that what motivated him was something quite un-materialistic.


 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
In another sense, however, the entire Nazi phenomenon was metaphysical


Yes, agreed - or as Myatt expressed it, a manifestation of the numinous.


 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
His one documented interest in Black Magic per se was Ernst Schertel's Magic



Well, this comment on Amazon maybe sums the book up - "I wish this source were cited in standard history books." It's not because it's speculative.

Even if the annotations are genuine, then they are open to interpretation - for instance, marking a passage about Satan doesn't necessary imply that Hitler had an interest in Satanism per se or inclined that way, only that he found the passage interesting for some reason, like someone critically reading a book who marks certain passage or makes some marginal notes doesn't imply they agree with the passages marked.

Given Hitler's many public speeches, and his personal opinions known to his close associates, it's more than likely that - if we again assume the annotations are genuine - he was curious about the subject because of it's, in his view, possible links to "the Jewish menace".

It's retrospective speculative reinterpretation to assume otherwise, surely.

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