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#3838 - 02/04/08 02:05 PM Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey?
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Greetings

Has anyone been on the website about Anton LaVey legend and reality and if so what do you think about the facts stated on the site? If you haven't seen it or read it here is the website addy.
http://www.churchofsatan.org/aslv.html

Just wanted to know others thoughts on the interesting information about ASL's life.

I found the information to be interesting to say the least.

Dark Blessings
Noc


Edited by Noc (02/04/08 02:06 PM)

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#3867 - 02/05/08 02:47 PM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: Noc]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
I remember reading this info a while back. The claim on how he treated pets sounds quite harsh, but whether it is true or not remains to be seen....
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#3881 - 02/05/08 09:07 PM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: Noc]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
I also saw this years ago... I came to this conclusion...

What does it really matter? Does it change anything or make anything different knowing that Anton was a man like any other?
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#3884 - 02/05/08 10:37 PM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: ta2zz]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
I also saw this years ago... I came to this conclusion...

What does it really matter? Does it change anything or make anything different knowing that Anton was a man like any other?


I agree with Tazz. Howard was prolly a boring creep anyhow. I hear interesting things about the Doc. My sister dated Stanton (his grandson). I'm a big fan of "Anton" so I asked him all these questions. I was told that Howard didn't actually write the Satanic Bible. He was a thinker and had all these ideas, but Stanton said his grandmom Diane took his incoherent thoughts, notes, and essays, and complied it for him under his name. I wouldn't trust Stanton all the way. I don't know. I hear crazy stories about Marylin Manson thoe.


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (02/05/08 10:39 PM)
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#3905 - 02/06/08 10:34 AM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
I found it to be an interesting article. The conclusion I get from it is, don't always take what you read to be the truth.

Because to be being a true satanist doesn't come from anywhere but from within!!!

And you don't need Anton ,Howard, or any other self proclaimed person to tell you what rules to follow.

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#3923 - 02/06/08 11:38 PM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Dragan Kasimir Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 11
Loc: Denver, CO
 Originally Posted By: LUCIFERIFIC

I was told that Howard didn't actually write the Satanic Bible. He was a thinker and had all these ideas, but Stanton said his grandmom Diane took his incoherent thoughts, notes, and essays, and complied it for him under his name.


It is true and false at the same time. Diane Hegarty did not write the Satanic Bible, but she did type the Satanic Bible. She is credited as being the typist, editor, and even a co-writer, but the book was written by Anton LaVey. The only real controversy over the book (legitimate controversy) is the that Anton LaVey plagiarized part of the Book of Satan from Ragnar Redbeard's Might is Right. He did admit to this in the last interview before his death:

"Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard is probably one of the most inflammatory books ever written, so who better to write an introduction? It was only natural that I excerpted a few pages of it for The Satanic Bible." - Anton LaVey ( source )

Nonetheless, the book is still a masterpiece.
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#3925 - 02/07/08 11:41 AM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: Dragan Kasimir]
birdstrike Offline
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Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
I find it interesting how people on this site are so stuck on the Satanic Bible. Yes it is a thought provoking book, so take what you can from it and cast it aside. Instead of spending your valuable time researching stupidity like "did Anton really write it?" perhaps expanding your own perceptions and place in the world would be a better pass time.

Since you people like bibles so much perhaps you should try a less compromising bible like the "Psychopath's Bible". Check out some concepts by Nietsche, or Jung. Forget you are Satanists!
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#3933 - 02/07/08 08:27 PM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: birdstrike]
Sven Offline
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Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
I suggest not only writers but people and what they did with their life. People like the Marqee de Sade and Oscar Wilde. "The Picture of Dorian Gray" had a impact on me personally I found lots of satanic ideals in it. Try reading Ayn Rand or Jean-Paul Sartre. Just because it doesn't say on the cover its a satanic text doesn't mean you can't find satanic elements in it.

I agree with Birdstrike, the Satanic Bible is a well written primer of Satanism, but even the Satanic Bible used other philosophers ideas for the base of Satanism. Even Jane Austen had satanic elements in her writings.
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#4115 - 02/12/08 05:46 AM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: Sven]
LVYÞN Offline
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Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 4
Reading that gives me the picture that Howard Stanton Levey just was a man with a big need of attention, so he came up with different stories about his life to have been special, or even "evil" in some ways, when in reality that was far from it.

Getting that picture also makes me hesitate about how "great" his work and believes are. The Satanic Bible and The Church of Satan all seems as work of the media to me now.

This aquires some thinking, because much of my life is based around the majority of the writings in The Satanic Bible. Even though I don't see myself as a complete LaVey satanist I admit that I do live after many of his believes, and that makes reading those facts about him makes me doubt that he was so original and wise as he appeared to be, and that makes me hesitate about if this is the right way for me or not.


Does anyone here feel slightly the same way as I do?
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#4124 - 02/12/08 02:13 PM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: LVYÞN]
puk Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 21
Loc: richmond, va
he was mearly a man. what he said and did in life might not have been the best, BUT, focus not ont he man, but his teachings. I dont agree with everything in the Satanic Bible, but i have still read it, and after reading the link about this "howard" character or wutevr, i still look back to what i read the same as before i had read this.
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#4125 - 02/12/08 02:19 PM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: puk]
Sethsryt Offline
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 20
Loc: The Netherlands
What I have heard from some sources is that at first he was more concentrated on magic and such paranormal things. Then after a girl he knew closely died, which he predicted and warned her for. Though she wouldn't listen, he became more materialistic and more for glamour and show.

He once could curse a man and that it actually worked.

Yet after he lost this "close" friend. He might have turned his back on paranormal things. Maybe he felt betrayed?
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#4126 - 02/12/08 02:49 PM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: Sethsryt]
puk Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 21
Loc: richmond, va
how reliable are these "sourses"? a friend of a friend who knows a friend? not to be rude, but you cannot belive anything you hear, only believe what you see and what you know to be true
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#4128 - 02/12/08 04:09 PM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: puk]
Sethsryt Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 20
Loc: The Netherlands
From some books actually. I do know lies can be everywhere.
But in books they tend to lie less.
Also in many things like wikipedia and online documents, ebooks.

I am trying to write a study on Satanism in whole.
To combine it in one figure. It's hard but a good challenge.

Also know that I kind of respect La Vey for some of his points of view. And I always question things, even my own philosophies. I cannot follow one religion without finding the flaws in it. This is also the reason that I am still unsure about what happens after death and fear it. I try to keep myself to one of my more safer and comforting theories and then find flaws in it. Or find it under the skeptic eye of my more atheistic side.
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#4225 - 02/14/08 06:20 AM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: Sethsryt]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: Noc
what do you think about the facts stated on the site?


Then..

 Originally Posted By: Noc
don't always take what you read to be the truth.


You should take your own advice.

What does it matter? LaVey was a human being just like you and I. To me, his celebrity status (or any status by anyone) doesn't matter to me - he was a human being. He shat, he pissed, he swore, he was the best sinner on the block. We all make mistakes, it's what we do best.
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#4227 - 02/14/08 08:44 AM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: DaVinci]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Davinci Did you read what I wrote before you even commented?

(Because to be being a true satanist doesn't come from anywhere but from within!!!)

(And you don't need Anton ,Howard, or any other self proclaimed person to tell you what rules to follow.)

The only rules I go by our my own, I do whatever I feel is right to me.

I do take my own advice and not follow in others footsteps.....
I don't take everything I read to be the truth thats why I don't follow everything thats been written in the S.B or any other book.

I would never take any celebrities word to be true nor anyone else due to there status, because there status means nothing to me. Just because someone is called a Magistrate,Rev, doesn't give that person anymore power then anyone else...

I started this thread to see what other's thought about the article on the website because I just came across it a little while ago. So many Satanists I've came across in my lifetime tend to look at the S.B as the holy grail and think they most follow it word for word because they seem to think Anton / Howard wrote it so everything in it must be true....

I came across this article and seen that a lot of the things was false and wanted to know others opinions so you don't need to tell me to take my own advice because I don't take whats written in the S.B or who wrote it to be the only truths or need anyone or a book to tell me what to believe in....

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#4228 - 02/14/08 08:47 AM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: Noc]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
Are you also aware that I'm not a Satanist?
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#4229 - 02/14/08 08:50 AM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: DaVinci]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Are you aware that I follow all aspects of the Occult not just Satanism?
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#4230 - 02/14/08 08:59 AM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: Noc]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
This is supposed to be revelent to me....how?

What you read, and what the truth is, are two very different things. If you had done your research prior to this thread, you may have noticed that the John D. Allee is the complete adversary to the ideals of the Church of Satan founded by LaVey in 1966. You may have already known that LaVey detested Allee prior to his death.

That online grotto (should I say cubby house?) is by far the most pathetic of spin-offs of the original Church of Satan - Allee cannot be given any credit as I have yet to witness John do anything out of the ordinary to help promote individualism, which, can't actually be promoted.

LaVey was a bullshit-artist, but it only ever validated his philosophy - which in my eyes makes him a success. As for John, well, he's just a straight bullshit-artist and isn't a success. Allee will do almost anything to tarnish LaVey's reputation and that of the Church of Satan. Don't believe what you read on the website or what people will tell you. Satanists are excellent manipulators; and lying is apart of that trait in order to obtain certain goals.
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#4231 - 02/14/08 09:23 AM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: DaVinci]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
I did my research before starting this thread. I started the thread to see what others thought about the article, because I came across so many Satanist's who claim that everything in the S.B is the truth.

I personally don't believe that everything in it is the truth, regardless who in the hell wrote it as I stated previously. I thought this long before I seen and read the article on the website.

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#4232 - 02/14/08 09:32 AM Re: Anton Lavey or Howard Stanton Levey? [Re: Noc]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: Noc
I did my research before starting this thread. I started the thread to see what others thought about the article, because I came across so many Satanist's who claim that everything in the S.B is the truth.

I personally don't believe that everything in it is the truth, regardless who in the hell wrote it as I stated previously. I thought this long before I seen and read the article on the website.


Those who claim to know the ultimate 'truth' are delusional and pompous. People lie, deceive, manipulate, judge and incite responses by posting pyschodramatic articles proclaiming that they know the real truth about someone to whom they have never actually conversed with or even met.

No one knows the truth, but why does it matter? What LaVey did with his life no longer matters. The Church of Satan remains, and LaVey is long dead. A useless corpse. Satanism will always be around, it will always remain a controversial religion and organisation. You're going to find people who will attempt to tarnish the reputation built into the legacy left behind by LaVey.

The article to me says nothing and represents nothing in terms of character by Allee and volume. He's just looking for excuses to discourage members of the Church of Satan to continue associating and affiliating themselves with said organisation. The article is bogus, just like most of John's essays. Don't think that I'm attacking you or anything, you're a smart chap and won't discourage your intellect based on this, but honestly man - you'll find articles like that spread across the Internet.
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