Page 2 of 2 <12
Topic Options
#38639 - 05/17/10 02:00 PM Re: Kentucky banned Satanism within prison system [Re: Adversary]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
Rev. Kaspar surely understands that revenge is a perfectly natural reaction to perceived wrongs. I suspect that if someone murdered his family, he would seek revenge in some form.

Actions have consequences. Whether motivated by revenge or merely a sense of fairness, reasonable people in civilized societies understand that without unpleasant consequences for inappropriate actions, anarchy results. The point of the Satanic Bible, I think, is that people should stand up for themselves instead of “turning the other cheek”. Furthermore, above all else TSB teaches that the greatest “sin” is stupidity. Is it really smart to get revenge by stabbing a fellow prisoner and adding time to your sentence?

As he does with his own Bible, Kaspar cherry picks verses to support his position and demonize the opposing side. As Zebu pointed out, his position as chaplain presents a conflict of interest with regard to Satanism. His opinion should be considered with this in mind…but of course it won’t. After all, he’s preaching to the choir.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

Top
#38640 - 05/17/10 03:19 PM Re: Kentucky banned Satanism within prison system [Re: William Wright]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: William Wright
Rev. Kaspar surely understands that revenge is a perfectly natural reaction to perceived wrongs. I suspect that if someone murdered his family, he would seek revenge in some form.


One could even argue that the prison system is the societies version of revenge. It sure aint "turn the other cheek" thats for sure.

Top
#38643 - 05/17/10 04:12 PM Re: Kentucky banned Satanism within prison system [Re: Nyte]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1737
Loc: New York
Re: Nyte.

 Quote:
That's not always the case though. Not every criminal is getting a "bum rap" and I don't know about you, but I don't really want every criminal claiming "the devil made me do it because I worship him...", either.


That is an excellent point, and I have considered that myself. However, the above would not be referring to what most of us consider Satanism, but “Devil Worship.”
On the other hand I also realize that most people who would attempt to give Satanism a bad name would have no desire to differentiate between the two for the sake of accuracy.

 Quote:
And you and I know that's a huge PIPE DREAM. The Christians would have a conniption fit if they couldn't "turn someone else's life around through Christianity and finding God."


Absolutely. But perhaps we are also to blame for making it too easy for them by not fighting them in their efforts. Some hard core Atheistic movements have put at least a bit of a dent into the Christian propaganda efforts. For example, Atheists deserve much of the credit for making it much more difficult to indoctrinate children in schools through prayer and such.
There are many well spoken Atheists out there who represent themselves in a serious manner, while many Satanists when given the chance to air their views in front of the public tend to come across as a bunch of nut cases, or at the very least as cute gothic eccentrics.

 Quote:
How many crimes don't involve violating someone else's rights of any kind? Can you honestly think of any? Right off the top of my head, I can't.


Willie Nelson for one. He was criminalized by the IRS as many people often are because of innocent accounting errors. It’s true that he didn’t serve jail time, but I believe that’s only because of his fame.
People who grow Canabis for personal use who get busted. Yes, they are “criminals,” but are not violating someone else’s rights. Some would argue that they are actually standing up for their own rights by deciding for themselves what they are going to put into their own bodies.
Larry Flint of “Penthouse” magazine fame, was jailed several times, and often harassed by the legal system. Again, he didn’t violate anyone’s “rights,” but instead stood up against the system which was backed by Xtian zealots. Interestingly enough he was dragged into court many times, while the person who shot him was never caught.
Then let's not forget the innocent parents who were jailed in the 80's during the "Satanic" panic.

 Quote:
Around here, unless you're busted with a ton of drugs, you get jail, probation and/or a fine, not prison. Prostitution generally doesn't warrant prison either. If you're in prison for drugs, chances are you've probably been linked to something more than drugs, like a murder or having been part of a rape crime, or as I stated above, a TON of drugs. Same with the prostitutes that have ended up in prison.


Point taken, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

 Quote:
No, instead there are kids out there claiming to be Satanists while shooting up their entire school. The lesson is that not all Satanists shoot up people and not all Muslims blow up buildings


True again. However, there is a difference between claiming to be a Satanist, and being one. Speaking just for myself, I would feel much safer being on a plane with 300 hard core Satanists, then 300 hard core Muslims. The reason for this is that “True” Satanists would be much more difficult to brain wash into doing something stupid, then people who believe the absolute non sense that is in the Koran.

 Quote:
My question is, do you need a separate place (meaning outside of your own home) to worship while being a Satanist?


No, and neither do xtians, Muslims, Buddhists or anyone else, except for the fact that human beings are social creatures and they enjoy playing dress up and ceremonial things among like minded individuals.

 Quote:
And after all that, are you going to write a letter to that prison and try to get those services reinstated or are you going to let it slide?


A very valid point. Most discussions tend to end up with the put up or shut up argument. This also goes for people who state that they would love to exterminate all child molesters, yet even though one can find them very easily by searching the internet for offenders, tend to simply prefer to act like a Peacock on a soap box without ever taking any action. Yet rarely if ever are they asked if they are willing to actually do something about it other then verbally make a spectacle of themselves.

I am, like most, an arm chair protester. I know what and who I am and although I do not make excuses or pride myself on it, I am still ahead of the game by not fooling myself into believing that I am something better as many Satanists, as well as non Satanists tend to do.
Furthermore, I realize that since I don’t often take action in regards to what I believe in, I would not be shocked, surprised or disappointed when my “rights,” or “privileges,” are taken away, and no one is there to help me.







Edited by Asmedious (05/17/10 04:25 PM)
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#38649 - 05/17/10 10:20 PM Re: Kentucky banned Satanism within prison system [Re: Asmedious]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio

 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
Re: Nyte.

 Quote:
That's not always the case though. Not every criminal is getting a "bum rap" and I don't know about you, but I don't really want every criminal claiming "the devil made me do it because I worship him...", either.


That is an excellent point, and I have considered that myself. However, the above would not be referring to what most of us consider Satanism, but "Devil Worship."
On the other hand I also realize that most people who would attempt to give Satanism a bad name would have no desire to differentiate between the two for the sake of accuracy.


It's a very tight rope we walk when we publicly claim Satanism and step in to the "spot light". Those that can walk that rope well are truly far and in between, but then again, those are the Satanists that deserve and earn respect. That's for sure.

I wish there was a way to cut the ties that the media draws on those that like to "play" Satanist, but many times it's not possible. The media like feeding BS as much as religions do and fear is a great driving force for their numbers.

 Quote:
And you and I know that's a huge PIPE DREAM. The Christians would have a conniption fit if they couldn't "turn someone else's life around through Christianity and finding God."


 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
Absolutely. But perhaps we are also to blame for making it too easy for them by not fighting them in their efforts. Some hard core Atheistic movements have put at least a bit of a dent into the Christian propaganda efforts. For example, Atheists deserve much of the credit for making it much more difficult to indoctrinate children in schools through prayer and such.
There are many well spoken Atheists out there who represent themselves in a serious manner, while many Satanists when given the chance to air their views in front of the public tend to come across as a bunch of nut cases, or at the very least as cute gothic eccentrics.


Understood and agreed. The group that is here, on this forum, for the most part, are well spoken and read. It seems more times than not, it's the angry, goth eccentric that gets the lime light. Perhaps that will change, but perhaps not.

 Quote:
How many crimes don't involve violating someone else's rights of any kind? Can you honestly think of any? Right off the top of my head, I can't.


 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
Willie Nelson for one. He was criminalized by the IRS as many people often are because of innocent accounting errors. It's true that he didn't serve jail time, but I believe that's only because of his fame.
People who grow Canabis for personal use who get busted. Yes, they are "criminals," but are not violating someone else's rights. Some would argue that they are actually standing up for their own rights by deciding for themselves what they are going to put into their own bodies.
Larry Flint of "Penthouse" magazine fame, was jailed several times, and often harassed by the legal system. Again, he didn't violate anyone's "rights," but instead stood up against the system which was backed by Xtian zealots. Interestingly enough he was dragged into court many times, while the person who shot him was never caught.
Then let's not forget the innocent parents who were jailed in the 80's during the "Satanic" panic.


I don't believe the parents went to prison (though I could be wrong). And again, Willy and Larry didn't end up in prison.

 Quote:
Around here, unless you're busted with a ton of drugs, you get jail, probation and/or a fine, not prison. Prostitution generally doesn't warrant prison either. If you're in prison for drugs, chances are you've probably been linked to something more than drugs, like a murder or having been part of a rape crime, or as I stated above, a TON of drugs. Same with the prostitutes that have ended up in prison.


 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
Point taken, but I wouldn't bet on it.


I can't tell you how many times we helped shut down the local drug houses (because of the shit they were doing with no reguard for those of us that lived there) in the city that we lived in about 5 years ago. There was a major prison there and when a lot of the criminals got released they usually stuck around. After one major bust, we were told that the drug trail lead to busts in MI, IN, IL, KY, FL and CA. Several of the people that were busted that day had stolen weapons and more than 1 were linked to a couple of murder cases that could finally be prosecuted. There were 4 hookers that got picked up locally that were doing the drug running and were also linked to several other crimes (theft, B&E with a weapon, etc.). This kind of thing happened more than once from the local drug raids. The ONLY reason we got involved was because these ass holes were doing deals in front of the many children that use to play on our street and because they even went so far as to have fights (jumping on cars, pointing weapons at each other) while we had to hide in our damn houses for fear they were going to kill someone innocent. If they had just partied and not been complete idiots we would have readily left them alone. Hell, we partied and NEVER carried on like that, back then. So yeah, I would bet on it.

 Quote:
No, instead there are kids out there claiming to be Satanists while shooting up their entire school. The lesson is that not all Satanists shoot up people and not all Muslims blow up buildings


 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
True again. However, there is a difference between claiming to be a Satanist, and being one. Speaking just for myself, I would feel much safer being on a plane with 300 hard core Satanists, then 300 hard core Muslims. The reason for this is that "True" Satanists would be much more difficult to brain wash into doing something stupid, then people who believe the absolute non sense that is in the Koran.


You and I both would feel safer. However, we've been fortunate enough to know and are Satanists. We know the difference.

 Quote:
My question is, do you need a separate place (meaning outside of your own home) to worship while being a Satanist?


 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
No, and neither do xtians, Muslims, Buddhists or anyone else, except for the fact that human beings are social creatures and they enjoy playing dress up and ceremonial things among like minded individuals.


True enough.

 Quote:
And after all that, are you going to write a letter to that prison and try to get those services reinstated or are you going to let it slide?


 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
A very valid point. Most discussions tend to end up with the put up or shut up argument. This also goes for people who state that they would love to exterminate all child molesters, yet even though one can find them very easily by searching the internet for offenders, tend to simply prefer to act like a Peacock on a soap box without ever taking any action. Yet rarely if ever are they asked if they are willing to actually do something about it other then verbally make a spectacle of themselves.

I am, like most, an arm chair protester. I know what and who I am and although I do not make excuses or pride myself on it, I am still ahead of the game by not fooling myself into believing that I am something better as many Satanists, as well as non Satanists tend to do.
Furthermore, I realize that since I don't often take action in regards to what I believe in, I would not be shocked, surprised or disappointed when my "rights," or "privileges," are taken away, and no one is there to help me.


Talking about fighting for the rights for a prisoner to "devil worship" and exterminating child molesters are two completely different actions. One is within a bit more feasible playing field, while the latter will land you in jail, even if you thought you were doing society some real good. Playing peacock is much safer.

You might be surprised though, if something were to happen that your rights were violated. You don't do things to get your butt caught up in the legal system. There is a difference & I do know of a few people that would fight for YOUR right to practice as you would desire simply because of that fact.
_________________________
If only just for today.....

Top
#38683 - 05/20/10 09:42 AM Re: Kentucky banned Satanism within prison system [Re: Nyte]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Well this is an obvious issue that will no doubt be reversed once it all goes through the legal channels... just another example of the ignorance of the masses....
Top
#38716 - 05/21/10 04:21 AM Re: Kentucky banned Satanism within prison system [Re: 111Cal]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
We know that the most efficient Satanists are those who can also manage to work under the radar... the Sentinels, Satanic Ronins.

I'm not going to stop just because someone decided i can't play with my alter anymore! I'll create one out of paper, dirt and pen'caps if needed. It's about intent focus, Will and Refinement... a mundane loss is just a that, only mundane.


Edited by Valor (05/21/10 04:41 AM)
_________________________
~there are none so blind as those who will not listen~

Top
Page 2 of 2 <12


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.029 seconds of which 0.008 seconds were spent on 19 queries. Zlib compression disabled.