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#38807 - 05/26/10 09:43 AM Double standards?
Shadow Dragon Offline
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Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 95


I thought this little experiment was interesting. Particularly when it showed that when the woman was abusing the man, most of the other women thought he probably deserved it.
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#38810 - 05/26/10 11:11 AM Re: Double standards? [Re: Shadow Dragon]
Meq Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
This thread piqued my interest enough that I thought I'd return to the forum to comment on it.

The double-standard in this instance is based on the belief that men are strong, woman are weak - hence it's fine for the underdog to 'fight back', but not for the powerful to physically assault the weaker sex.

Now, this does have some basis in biology (given that males TEND TO have a stronger physique), however this is not true in all instances. When a strong, butch woman kicks the shit out of a weak and scrawny male, it is not true that this is the underdog fighting back - however societal norms insure this mistaken belief is still overgeneralized to cover this instance. Double standards, yes.

This also raises another inconvenient issue for many women. The privileged position of only women not being OK to be physically assaulted by the opposite sex, is based around the idea that women are the weak sex. This is an inherently sexist idea. Yet unlike many other similar forms of sexism, many women would be reluctant to give this idea up as it would give up their special status. If men and women were truly viewed as equals, hitting a woman would be no more morally repugnant than hitting a man of similar build. Funny how 'equality' is rarely screamed for by women in this instance...

I remember a certain member here (who left years back), who was a young lesbian. She once mentioned an 'experiment' she liked to do on men in a nightclub. Without provocation, she would go up to a man and slap him - HARD - round the face.

What would the man do? Nothing, besides look dumbfounded. He knew that a man wasn't 'supposed' to physically retaliate at a woman, ever. The people around would have strongly condemned that too. On the other hand, as this study bears out, many onlookers would have assumed that the man somehow deserved it. The slap-happy young woman in question had no social sanctions whatsoever for her actions.

This issue is one example of how women frequently have more power than men, despite feminists' portrayal of men as the privileged sex which often glosses over such glaring issues.

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#38812 - 05/26/10 03:36 PM Re: Double standards? [Re: Meq]
Adversary Offline
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Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 93
 Quote:
Now, this does have some basis in biology (given that males TEND TO have a stronger physique), however this is not true in all instances. When a strong, butch woman kicks the shit out of a weak and scrawny male, it is not true that this is the underdog fighting back - however societal norms insure this mistaken belief is still overgeneralized to cover this instance. Double standards, yes.
I had just read a study unrelated to this, and in it, it had mentioned that men are, on average, only 15% larger than women, but stronger than 99.9% of women. Just thought I'd share that.
I disagree with a butch broad beating a scrawny guy as an underdog fighting back, but an underdog beating another underdog. I don't think that hitting a woman is any more or less unfair than an athlete assaulting a desk jockey.

 Quote:
I remember a certain member here (who left years back), who was a young lesbian. She once mentioned an 'experiment' she liked to do on men in a nightclub. Without provocation, she would go up to a man and slap him - HARD - round the face.
Even considering the potential beatdown that would likely follow, I would have knocked that bitch the fuck out. Just sayin.'


Edited by Adversary (05/26/10 03:38 PM)

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#38814 - 05/26/10 05:23 PM Re: Double standards? [Re: Shadow Dragon]
Anne Offline
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Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Denmark
It was actually quite interesting to watch.. Made me wonder what if I witnessed something like that, but automaticly my mind went to "well, how would I react if it was a man hitting a woman", instead of just thinking "well this is the suituation, how would I handle it?"

I guess it is about old prejudice, if you can put it that way.. A man hitting a woman, oh no, he is taking his faults out on an innocent weak woman, HOW COULD HE!! But if a woman hits a man, "Oh she's fighthing back.. Good" However i'm not sure what she is fighthing back for.. Also if a man shows any kind of "weakness" by either showing or telling about he being abused by a woman, he will usually not be shown with respect, well truely not.. It makes me think of the woman that walks by in a pink shirt punching the air and grinning like hell..

I believe it's excuses in our minds, and a way of how it has just always "been".

Would I get involved? Well.. Selfpresevation.. I probally woulden't make it my business, regardsless of man or woman being hit..
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#38820 - 05/26/10 09:29 PM Re: Double standards? [Re: Anne]
Adversary Offline
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Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 93
I actually knew a guy would would get the shit beat out of him by his ex. And she could hit like a dude, no joke. Anyways, people who stay in abusive relationships deserve every single hit. I don't feel bad or feel a desire to intervene. If people refuse to be in an abusive relationship, guess what, abusive relationships end. Very simple.
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#38835 - 05/27/10 07:23 AM Re: Double standards? [Re: Adversary]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Unless of course, your ex is a psycho and stalks you when you try to get away, or threatens your children, and all of your assets are in his/her name. Fear is often a big incentive for people to stay in abusive relationships. Sometimes people need help to break away, because their partner has completely dominated their lives and they have no way to strike out on their own.
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#38998 - 06/02/10 11:39 AM Re: Double standards? [Re: Nemesis]
Phobos Offline
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Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 50
Loc: France
So this means you made wrong choices before the "abusive relationship" even began as such. I am maybe mistaken but violence doesn't come out of the blue and there are probably many occasions when you can do something between the very first kiss and the last punch in the face. On the other hand, if violence does come out of the blue, you probably shouldn't wait to be mesmerized by fear to react.
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#39000 - 06/02/10 12:41 PM Re: Double standards? [Re: Phobos]
Meq Offline
Banned
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: Phobos
So this means you made wrong choices before the "abusive relationship" even began as such.

Excuse the cross-forum duplicate question, but perhaps (in the case of a woman) they went for "Fred"? (Nah, not our Fred, lol)
Of course, a man can fall for an abusive partner too, although this is statistically less likely to involve physical abuse.

One good reason to think with the head, not with the dick or pussy.

No one should be protected from the consequences of their own stupidity.

Meq

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#39001 - 06/02/10 01:25 PM Re: Double standards? [Re: Meq]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I have been in a relationship with a psycho bitch who liked to hit me. I would do something as trivial as make fun of her music and she would fly off the handle. Most of the time I would just laugh, which only seemed to encourage her but I couldn't help it.

One time she came at me with the phone so I pinned her down on the couch with the intention of holding her there until she calmed down. The whole time she was yelling at me and saying that she was going to call the cops and have me arrested - which was funny considering she had just broke the phone over my head.

Just as I was about to get up and let her go, her friend walked in and sees her pinned to the couch. Immediately her friend starts yelling at me without understanding the situation. So I filled her in on the details, not that I really needed to since her friend had been there once before when she freaked out on me and tried to break my stereo. Even after hearing the story I was still the bad guy, still in the wrong. Apparently I was just supposed to stand there and let her smack the shit out of me with the phone.

We broke up shortly after but we still shared an apartment, which was weird, even weirder though was the fact that she never got violent with me after we broke up. She was more pleasant to be around as a roommate and ex-girlfriend then she was as a girlfriend. It was like a switch was turned off or something.
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#39482 - 06/22/10 01:55 AM Re: Double standards? [Re: Nemesis]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
Unless of course, your ex is a psycho and stalks you when you try to get away, or threatens your children, and all of your assets are in his/her name. Fear is often a big incentive for people to stay in abusive relationships. Sometimes people need help to break away, because their partner has completely dominated their lives and they have no way to strike out on their own.


Thanks, Nem.

I've been on both sides of this: the side where you talk shit about the woman who is taking it, and (much later, and with a very surprised look on my face) the side where you ARE the woman who is taking it.

And the fact that I'm on a forum full of self-proclaimed Satanists makes me wonder how anyone would need explanation as to how easy it is to exploit the emotions of any person who has already decided that they are emotionally invested in you.

The abusers who excel in their chosen field use grown-up versions of the same tricks that child molestors use when "grooming" a child...and women make excellent targets for this because mostly they are naturally more "giving" and non-confrontational and blahblahblah than men are. And the more the two lives are intertwined (children, finances, living together, etc), the easier it is to exploit the other person.

Not to mention the fact that it's pretty fuckin' embarrassing to have to tell someone that the guy you've talked so great about for so long has started kicking your ass on a regular basis.

Yes, you really do wake up one day and think to yourself, "What the fuck? How did shit go this direction?" You don't have to be a weak-minded pussy to fall into this life, you just have to let your guard down long enough with the wrong person.

My piece of shit ex stalked me during the relationship and for almost a year afterwards, went to prison, and is currently off the grid. I didn't take it nearly as long as the average woman does, but I'm smart enough to see how it could have gone that way if I were the type that was easily broken down. The minute I saw where things were heading I started making plans to GTFO - though I did wind up getting the business end a few times before I was able to make my break.

It was definitely a learning experience.

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#39483 - 06/22/10 02:06 AM Re: Double standards? [Re: ceruleansteel]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
As for the video, the study would have been better if the man would have been reacting in a fearful way. This guy probably wasn't eliciting any help from strangers because he wasn't really acting like it affected him in any way at all. He wasn't acting hurt, asking her to stop, or anything. He just sat there doing and saying nothing the whole time. That will bias the reactions, I think.

Not to mention the fact that the man-on-woman experiment had a man obviously bigger and more aggressive than the woman, yet the woman-on-man experiment had people of roughly equal sizes...and the abused woman-couple were better dressed, etc...

I would have done this study in a totally different way so that the two situations were more similar.


Edited by ceruleansteel (06/22/10 02:08 AM)

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#39641 - 06/28/10 05:55 PM Re: Double standards? [Re: Adversary]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Adversary
Anyways, people who stay in abusive relationships deserve every single hit. I don't feel bad or feel a desire to intervene. If people refuse to be in an abusive relationship, guess what, abusive relationships end. Very simple.


That's a very narrow-minded and ignorant answer. You're saying that even if one of your own family members, your mother or your sister were being aubused you would say they deserved it?

Some people stay in abusive relationships not always out of fear, but I'm sure in very rare cases also out of love. They know their spouse or partner was abused as a child and might want to stay and help them deal with it and find help for them. Though I doubt it ever works.

Also, the person getting abused might have come from an abusive childhood and that's the only life they know. They think that love means being abused.
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#39681 - 06/29/10 01:44 PM Re: Double standards? [Re: Knievel74]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't find it a narrow-minded or ignorant answer at all.

Some time ago when I was at my current partner's house, her sister came in all crying and sobbing. I listened to her story about how she was bitch-slapped by the guy she lived with. Instead of giving her the "poor you" reply most look for, I told her that if she didn't fight him back with everything at her disposal, she deserved every fucking beating she got. It shocked her but, the same evening, she called the cops and filed a complaint, left him, went to a shelter, and is now somewhere with someone else. It's not that she got much smarter; she's still a weak cow and will likely end in the gutter one day, but at least, at that moment, she was intelligent enough to realize you don't have to submit yourself to anything you don't want to.

Anyone, besides maybe a child or a retard, that is in an abusive relation deserves everything they get. There is always a choice.

I don't buy the sad story about the poor one being abused and now confuses abusing with love. I'm tired of all those excuses. There are plenty of people that have been abused and know very well how to behave correctly in relations so why should we suddenly feel bad about those not being able to grow beyond it? I feel as much compassion for them as for the pedophile that tries to excuse himself out of his behavior by using "daddy touched my wee-wee", the rapist that wasn't cuddled enough by mommy or the murderer that didn't get enough pocket-money. Screw them all. They all have a choice; whatever path they take, it's their responsibility, it's their consequence.

D.

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#39692 - 06/29/10 05:13 PM Re: Double standards? [Re: Diavolo]
Little Horn Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 11
Loc: Colorado
 Originally Posted By: Meq
One good reason to think with the head, not with the dick or pussy.


Amen, friend. I think that taking those few simple words into consideration would fix 90% of the relationship problems in America.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Anyone, besides maybe a child or a retard, that is in an abusive relation deserves everything they get. There is always a choice.


I would even take it a step further by saying that they enjoy these types of situations. If you're getting the shit beaten out of you by an abusive spouse on a regular basis and you're not doing anything to stop it, you're obviously some sort of masochistic attention whore. These people enjoy it on some level if they're not putting a stop to it.

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