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#38937 - 05/31/10 12:58 PM LBRP - Cardinal Directions?
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
So having been thoroughly addicted to ritual these past several months and devouring various grimoires like a fat kid in a room full of cake, I finally got around to constructing my own LHP-oriented banishing ritual, based, of course, on the LBRP- using the four crown princes (Lucifer, Belial, Leviathan, Satan) as the focus for calling the watchtowers, and Samael-Azazel-Azael-Mahazael as the cardinal angels.

Now when I actually got down to referencing the source material, I realize that the LBRP instructs you to make the sign of the Earth-Pentagram in the East, and make the sign of the Air-Pentagram in the north. This confuses me entirely, seeing that the East is traditionally the direction of Air, and the North is associated with Earth. (The South and West, however, are invoked normally.)

I checked numerous sources, but it is the same throughout. Even Crowley's banishing rituals retain this "discrepancy".

Furthermore, one would assume that a Pentagram of Spirit (for the fifth point) would be made after the main four, but I have not found it in any instructions. (The TotBL's banishing ritual does, however, and one of Crowley's numerous banishings prescribe an invoking hexagram of the beast be made, which would assume this role.)

So my overall question is, why is the Air-Pentagram drawn in the north, and the Earth-Pentagram drawn in the East? Is there some kind of occult reason? Or is it an error that Mathers made way back in the GD days and nobody bothered to ask why?

Granted; it's not terribly important- I modify my rituals heavily based on what "feels" right- but it's a trivial issue that's become a splinter in my mind.
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#38966 - 06/01/10 05:43 AM Re: LBRP - Cardinal Directions? [Re: The Zebu]
Mindmaster Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
LBRP doesn't use anything but that of the banishing earth Pentagram. You are using this to balance the area basically so that you can tip the scale with the rest of your work. There is no real 'inversion' of this process if that is your goal. At certainly in it's original form works fine.

This is partly because there is double correspondence in the GRP as spirit has no direction, but can be used in all four actively in the east and south, and passively in the north and west. I'm familiar with that typo... I believe that is present in _The Golden Dawn_ and Crowley's Equinox (which really was just a reprint.) The true directions are East-Air,South-Fire,West-Water,North-Earth. All this being said despite the use of angelic names in this type of ritual they are not envisioned as you calling on the powers of angels by classical magicians. In the LBRP (properly done) you are God, and are saying a prayer to yourself. You are calling on your bitches, aka the elements to get things done. Don't make a mistake of thinking that this is some sort of Judeo-Christian thing as it's more a cosmic correspondence like those found in 777. This is secular and has nothing to do with religion per say. You are using these names to pull a particular thought form or servitor into your presence and you are ordering them to be under your control. You are accessing the 'archetypal' imagery to gain access to this 'force'. A historic mental talisman!

If you like the LBRP use it, but don't bother altering it. It's much more powerful in its basic form energized by the efforts of the thousands that have came before you. No need to reinvent the wheel, and if you are interested in group work of any type they are more likely doing the standard LBRP. It's good to be good at magic and just not the particular styles that suit your fancy.

If the assumption of God forms, use of divine names, and angelic imagery offends you don't do magic. You are identifying yourself with the system instead of using the system as a tool. This is very harmful in all magic practice. It leads to mania and obsession as certain 'factors' become more important than others. These 'factors' become the 'demons' of the practice. Detachment is required to a degree, and feeling you have to create a black version of everything is generally a waste of time. You can invoke anything from Amun-Ra to Zeus with the same toolbox.

Spend your time crafting rituals after you have a solid base with which to compare. This comes from doing things not postulating on them. Work out changes when something fails to work after periods of time. The LBRP is mostly a magical kata used to stimulate the imagination much like martial arts use the concept of ki. A beginner doesn't walk up to the master and go, 'Well, screw you I'm doing it my way..." The master knows the real secret that nothing can be said to make you understand, but you can do many things and learn to Know them. It is simplicity, not the dogma of the practitioners that has made the LBRP a good tool.

Likewise, the symbolism of a symbol to the subconscious (the important bit really) doesn't change because it is inverted. So yet another blunder of magic can be overted. Even if you spell a word upside down and backwards it's meaning doesn't change. An upright symbol of the Pentagram is the sigil of the microcosm and nothing more. So is the upside down one... since the subconscious mind doesn't see these rationalizations. You may however impress your friends with your 'evil' style. :P The only magic here may be your 'lesser black magic' in any case.

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#39002 - 06/02/10 01:48 PM Re: LBRP - Cardinal Directions? [Re: Mindmaster]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
A beginner doesn't walk up to the master and go, 'Well, screw you I'm doing it my way..." The master knows the real secret that nothing can be said to make you understand, but you can do many things and learn to Know them. It is simplicity, not the dogma of the practitioners that has made the LBRP a good tool.


I understand what you mean. I actually tried that two years ago, when I decided I was going to be all original and avant-garde with magic, and pull everything out of my ass as opposed to "doing it by the book".

Needless to say, it didn't work. So I decided to study the old school. I have actually been practicing the Golden-Dawn LBRP (though errant), as well as some other work from Crowley's Book 4, it its' unaltered form for some time. So far I've been getting good results. I have no problem with the LBRP when used for lodge-type workings from the GD, OTO, etc.

However, when I tried experimenting with more overtly "Satanic" rituals on the side, doing the typical GD-style banishing before and after just feels... well... odd. It just doesn't feel right using it in conjunction with LHP work.

Crowley didn't seem to have a problem with making fifty billion different variations on the LBRP wherein he merely changed the names around, so I don't see a problem in fashioning my own "Sinister LBRP" for the purposes of Satanic magic, provided the correspondences are kosher. I'm not trying to "invert" anything, just use the same tool with a different label.

Thank you for the clarifications.


Edited by The Zebu (06/02/10 02:12 PM)
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#39006 - 06/02/10 02:20 PM Re: LBRP - Cardinal Directions? [Re: The Zebu]
Mindmaster Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu

However, when I tried experimenting with more overtly "Satanic" rituals on the side, doing the typical GD-style banishing before and after just feels... well... odd. It just doesn't feel right using it in conjunction with LHP work.


Remember that the classical magicians used these rituals when attempting to summon demons. :P They really don't have a color despite the names (which really are just inherited from the black magicians of the past.) I'm just not that attached to the mechanics that it would offend me... I consider myself free to do as I please even if that is attending a shamanistic retreat. \:\)

Crowley had a habit of changing anything and everything, and not always for the better. He had a very poor consideration of the sigils of the collective consciousness. There is nothing wrong with inventing something to suit your needs, but it's much better to use what is already there and then drop a cherry on top. It would be hard at this point to create a really "unique" ritual concept. There are only so many human needs. \:\)

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#39094 - 06/06/10 12:42 AM Re: LBRP - Cardinal Directions? [Re: Mindmaster]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
The names themselves don't offend me at all-- like I said, I've practiced the normal LBRP with no qualms, in conjunction with traditional ceremonial magic for the purposes of developing my meditation skills. I don't shy away from Hebrew angel-names like they're "demons" or something (although some people do, mainly Theistic Satanists).

When I said "Satanic" rituals, I meant contextually so. If, for example, I performed an invocation praising the Promethean aspects of Azazel, it is simply bad aesthetics to cap it off with an call to the Archangels who were said to have bound and defeated him for the primary reason of embodying the very traits that I seek to identify myself with.

On the other hand, if I performed a Gnostic Eucharist, I'm not going to start off with invoking the Four Crown Princes of Hell.

One thing I'm not too hot about in traditional Lodge-style magic is the use of Judaic mythology as a swiss-army-knife approach to ritual, for this same reason. If I want to invoke Dionysus or some other Greek god, calling on Mike, Gabe, Raph, and Uri is just a misappropriation of context. It feels out of whack. It would make much more sense to invoke Zephyros and the other directional wind-gods. Mathers and Crowley had no problem mixing and matching, but their metaphysical perspective is completely different from mine. I place more value on context.

I can vibrate Jewish god-names till the cows come home, and I admit it's a useful and traditional way to sharpen my skills, but at the end of the day, I'm still a Satanist. Intoning "LEVIATHAN" instead of "AHIH" doesn't make the LBRP any less effective, should I desire to perform a Black Mass instead of an Evocation of Bartzabel.


Edited by The Zebu (06/06/10 12:44 AM)
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#39212 - 06/09/10 04:31 PM Re: LBRP - Cardinal Directions? [Re: The Zebu]
Mindmaster Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
Yeah, mostly I use traditional styles to tap traditional forces. You may well be better off to use newer methods to invoke something not so traditional. At this point I see mostly these things as models that exist in consciousness. There is really no ancient source for much of the darker materials as typically the only really dark practices (aka the dark gnostics) didn't really have much doing other than to corrupt the original Christian versions of things. The old methods are great for giving you that quirky authentic experience that something modern doesn't really create. It's not better or worse and I've even done things based on cybernetic and psychological models, but the impact is more there with me with the older text. If anything it's just about setting moods. \:\) It's hard to have a normal mindset when mumbling a few bits of enochian or hebrew in the middle of the ritual. _TSB_ rituals simply don't occupy my mind enough to allow me to get ritualized appropriately.

LBRP is no more less satanic than yoga or neuro-linguistic programming. It's how you use it all that defines the purpose basically. Other than changing the names used what else is changing? Just poking my curiosity here obviously.

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