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#40132 - 07/11/10 05:48 PM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Morgan]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
It all matters because that which is here and now that we can touch and feel is important, it matters, because that is all there is.

If you think none of it matters, then what are you striving for?

If you want to be remembered, then touch someone. Touch their mind, heart, emotions, intelligence, and touch your own. You are remembered through the actions you take, the people you reach, and the children you have.

You want to be remembered, then help someone with something. In doing that, in a way you are helping yourself to be remembered.

Porn stars are replaceable, strippers are replaceable, singers are mostly replaceable.

Teachers, Artists, Scientists, Doctors, Writers, Warriors, and Musicians are remembered and not replaceable. They all leave a tangible mark on other people and on history.

M


I have to completely agree with Morgan on this one. We can strive to do things that make tangible items and knowledge available to us, but in the end, if we haven't made a difference to any one else, then we won't be remembered. It's good to strive and indulge in the finer things our own lives can offer. Hell, it wouldn't be life and we wouldn't be really living if we didn't find a way to do just that. Do we NEED to over indulge to enjoy? Not at all. But at the end of the day, if we haven't done something to make anyone remember us, even indulging in our money, food, limelight, etc., won't make one damn bit of difference.
_________________________
If only just for today.....

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#40134 - 07/11/10 07:08 PM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Nyte]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Clarence
This world dies with us.

With this I have to agreeÖ To all purposes after I am gone nothing after has any meaning to me.

 Originally Posted By: Nyte
I have to completely agree with Morgan on this one. We can strive to do things that make tangible items and knowledge available to us, but in the end, if we haven't made a difference to any one else, then we won't be remembered.

Ah yes the Satanists view of an afterlife, being rememberedÖ

 Originally Posted By: Nyte
It's good to strive and indulge in the finer things our own lives can offer. Hell, it wouldn't be life and we wouldn't be really living if we didn't find a way to do just that. Do we NEED to over indulge to enjoy? Not at all. But at the end of the day, if we haven't done something to make anyone remember us, even indulging in our money, food, limelight, etc., won't make one damn bit of difference.

To whom will being remembered make any difference? If you are dead the one person it matters to is gone.

This is why you are wrong in thinking indulging in oneself doesnít matter. It is one of the only things that truly does matter, for if you do not enjoy yourself now it will be too late after your gone. Fuck being remembered, thatís right up there with the mediocre want of everyone to become famous. Probably why I tattoo so many fucking stars the last 4-5 years.

It doesnít matter if you only enjoy yourself. Being remembered seems like more hype than itís worth.

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#40136 - 07/11/10 09:29 PM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Nyte]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Quote:
I have to completely agree with Morgan on this one. We can strive to do things that make tangible items and knowledge available to us, but in the end, if we haven't made a difference to any one else, then we won't be remembered. It's good to strive and indulge in the finer things our own lives can offer. Hell, it wouldn't be life and we wouldn't be really living if we didn't find a way to do just that. Do we NEED to over indulge to enjoy? Not at all. But at the end of the day, if we haven't done something to make anyone remember us, even indulging in our money, food, limelight, etc., won't make one damn bit of difference.


I suppose I'm all for being remembered, as a legacy worth leaving is probably as close to immortality as anyone will ever attain. However, to take a page out of the book of Howard Roark, self satisfaction in your work, in whatever you do with your life, is paramount. You can touch other people, impact them, but if your work, your legacy is not so much for your own satisfaction as it is for others', then it was hardly worth doing, was it? And the sad fact is, that in such a case people will sooner forget than remember. Do it for your own satisfaction, and others (though not everyone) will follow suit.
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#40146 - 07/12/10 08:47 PM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Meatl Gear]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3890
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Meatl Gear
I personally do not believe in total self-indulgence. However, I do not believe "god" or "religion" should dictate what I believe in.

Sometimes pain is preferable to pleasure. It hurts to for instance stay in good physical condition, but it is still better.

How do you feel about that?

Why does self indulgence have to be defined in such a short term fashion?

If I go through the training and discipline myself to learn a martial art with the goal of becoming more dangerous, and this goal is not a necessity, it then comes as an indulgence.

As it is with rational self interest, indulging ones Will is an ongoing process, not a momentary event.

Only a fool ignores the long term.
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ideological vandal

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#40149 - 07/13/10 12:32 AM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Morgan]
Dakota Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 60
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
It all matters because that which is here and now that we can touch and feel is important, it matters, because that is all there is.

If you think none of it matters, then what are you striving for?

If you want to be remembered, then touch someone. Touch their mind, heart, emotions, intelligence, and touch your own. You are remembered through the actions you take, the people you reach, and the children you have.

You want to be remembered, then help someone with something. In doing that, in a way you are helping yourself to be remembered.

Porn stars are replaceable, strippers are replaceable, singers are mostly replaceable.

Teachers, Artists, Scientists, Doctors, Writers, Warriors, and Musicians are remembered and not replaceable. They all leave a tangible mark on other people and on history.

M


None of this matters, it really doesn't.

No matter how many hearts I could teach, or whatever, does it matter?

It only matters, because we live today. And if I give up on hope of being remembered then it doesn't matter, since it doesn't.

Would it make a difference if I died today, or became the biggest thing since Buddha.

Does self indulgence matters? Does being happy matter, no it doesn't.

It doesn't matter, since it all comes to an end, like the beginning.

We are just a bunch of hamsters twirling in a wheel, but we all fall down and die. Then it's all blackness, and nothingness.

It's all in our minds, and once we are ceased we might as well not live in the beginning since we are dead already.

If we are dead already, then we were never born.

We aren't here really then.

Since we are gone already.

I still want to pretend it matters for now though, so I'll try to be remembered. That's just me. It's all make believe isn't it, kind of worthless in the end isn't it.


Edited by Dakota (07/13/10 12:34 AM)

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#40150 - 07/13/10 12:37 AM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Dakota]
Dakota Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 60
Loc: Michigan
To that,

we need to discover the cure to aging as soon as possible, or prolong life as much as possible, since it's the only thing that can sustain us. Since when it's all over, it's game over.

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#40154 - 07/13/10 02:40 AM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Dakota]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
Does self indulgence matters? Does being happy matter, no it doesn't.

It does matter. What would your life be without trying to be happy? What would life be if you couldn't indulge in subjects you like/love? If you are only focused on gaining respect, money, wealth and succes then you are nothing but a machine.
Maybe your name will be mentioned a few times, but as I see it, that person would be nothing more then a brainless individual sacrificing him/herself for leisure of the masses.
Cheap and small-scale leisure that is.

Your vision is one I greatly dislike and one that most people tend to have. Everybody wants succes, they want it quick, they want it plenty and they do whatever it takes to have it. In the end it doesn't even matter [as sung by Linkin park].
It may be in the general persona of these people, I find it unproductive and stupid.
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#40162 - 07/13/10 03:30 AM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Dimitri]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1140
Loc: Amarillo, TX
I think that pain or abstinence should be used as a means to an end, not as an end in themselves. RHP religions essentially teach that denying or torturing yourself is a virtue in and of itself. I believe it's only a virtue if it's done for some purpose, usually self-improvement or some other greater payoff in the future.

Do note, though, that it's in pursuit of some more refined indulgence (self-esteem, fitness, health) that one is willing to endure some other form of abstinence. So ultimately, we all have some thing we're looking to indulge in. Some of us just have more of a refined sense of what we want in the long term.
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#40172 - 07/13/10 05:29 AM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: ta2zz]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz

 Originally Posted By: Nyte
It's good to strive and indulge in the finer things our own lives can offer. Hell, it wouldn't be life and we wouldn't be really living if we didn't find a way to do just that. Do we NEED to over indulge to enjoy? Not at all. But at the end of the day, if we haven't done something to make anyone remember us, even indulging in our money, food, limelight, etc., won't make one damn bit of difference.

To whom will being remembered make any difference? If you are dead the one person it matters to is gone.

This is why you are wrong in thinking indulging in oneself doesnít matter. It is one of the only things that truly does matter, for if you do not enjoy yourself now it will be too late after your gone. Fuck being remembered, thatís right up there with the mediocre want of everyone to become famous. Probably why I tattoo so many fucking stars the last 4-5 years.

It doesnít matter if you only enjoy yourself. Being remembered seems like more hype than itís worth.

~T~


Ya know, I've thought long and hard about this recently. After losing a friend to a 6 year struggle with cancer just this past week, I realized that part of the reason people do/will remember him was because he indulged in life, really living. He touched so many other people just by enjoying those around him and taking a few minutes to really "just be in the moment", so to speak.

You're right, when we are gone, we're gone and it won't matter to us. I can still hope that my children (and extended children) will remember the laughs, smiles, good times, bad times and long talks we've had. I hope that my best friend will remember all that we've gone through and the difference it's made for both of us. My other half BETTER remember all that we've gone through, good and bad! I think I'll be a bit more aware of being "in the moment" than I've been in a long, LONG time because of my strong friend that just passed away. I don't have to be famous to be remembered and if that's my "afterlife", I'm completely good with that. In the mean time, I may or may not indulge. Just depends on MY mood of the day and if I find something to really indulge in. ; )
_________________________
If only just for today.....

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#40174 - 07/13/10 05:52 AM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Draculesti]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Draculesti
 Quote:
I have to completely agree with Morgan on this one. We can strive to do things that make tangible items and knowledge available to us, but in the end, if we haven't made a difference to any one else, then we won't be remembered. It's good to strive and indulge in the finer things our own lives can offer. Hell, it wouldn't be life and we wouldn't be really living if we didn't find a way to do just that. Do we NEED to over indulge to enjoy? Not at all. But at the end of the day, if we haven't done something to make anyone remember us, even indulging in our money, food, limelight, etc., won't make one damn bit of difference.


I suppose I'm all for being remembered, as a legacy worth leaving is probably as close to immortality as anyone will ever attain. However, to take a page out of the book of Howard Roark, self satisfaction in your work, in whatever you do with your life, is paramount. You can touch other people, impact them, but if your work, your legacy is not so much for your own satisfaction as it is for others', then it was hardly worth doing, was it? And the sad fact is, that in such a case people will sooner forget than remember. Do it for your own satisfaction, and others (though not everyone) will follow suit.


Roark slammed that nail right on the head! I recently changed jobs and moved for that very reason. When we do something because we like to, or it makes us happy, we generally create a workable enviroment around us (to include people). Do we have to indulge to accomplish those things? I guess, in many ways, we do.

Damnit, I'm starting to feel like Yes Man.
_________________________
If only just for today.....

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#40234 - 07/14/10 11:55 AM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Dimitri]
Dakota Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 60
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Quote:
Does self indulgence matters? Does being happy matter, no it doesn't.

It does matter. What would your life be without trying to be happy? What would life be if you couldn't indulge in subjects you like/love? If you are only focused on gaining respect, money, wealth and succes then you are nothing but a machine.
Maybe your name will be mentioned a few times, but as I see it, that person would be nothing more then a brainless individual sacrificing him/herself for leisure of the masses.
Cheap and small-scale leisure that is.

Your vision is one I greatly dislike and one that most people tend to have. Everybody wants succes, they want it quick, they want it plenty and they do whatever it takes to have it. In the end it doesn't even matter [as sung by Linkin park].
It may be in the general persona of these people, I find it unproductive and stupid.



I didn't exactly said my vision in a complete description besides vague notations of the ideas of success and wealth. It's just not a vision most people will think about, it's not about me in the big terms of things, it's the world. It's society, the American dream, the era we are living in. It's the whole picture, and I want that picture to be me.

Wealth and success just comes along with it.

And I'll never be happy until this happens, because my happiness does not depend on anyone. And money comes from someone, so I am not happy because of money. Nor success, since that comes from the population. It's the creation of seeing this "vision" comes true, which isn't because of people but because it came from me into a reality. If all I wanted was success I would ventured out as a owner of a company, and if all I wanted was money then I would just settle for a doctor.

No, money and success are just objects, and are not the true source of happiness for me. Since they really mean nothing, and yet everything because they are the measurement ruler for this vision.

When the endless 0's are in my bank account, then I would think "Am I there yet?" If the world dynamics are changed then perhaps I am, but if people just like what I produce and nothing really change then I would have to work a little harder and a little quicker before I lose my people's focus on me.

It's just stupid, because you don't understand it to the extent that without this hope then life really is nothing.

Happiness could be a whip against someone's butt, or a kiss at the church. So if my happiness depends on the world, then that's what my happiness is. If yours is just a girl in your bed then that's yours, so what are we talking about?

Am I robot, if it takes one to get this vision true, then I am. Am I stupid, if this doesn't happen then I was.

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#40236 - 07/14/10 12:18 PM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Dakota]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
It's just not a vision most people will think about, it's not about me in the big terms of things, it's the world. It's society, the American dream, the era we are living in. It's the whole picture, and I want that picture to be me.

As far as I am concerned, the mere idea of "the American dream" is but a over-used (media)concept which already degraded much of the rich cultures the world once had. A concept Hollywood is to eager to promote to such an extend people actually start believing in that kind of fantasy.
The American way my ass..


 Quote:
And I'll never be happy until this happens, because my happiness does not depend on anyone. And money comes from someone, so I am not happy because of money. Nor success, since that comes from the population. It's the creation of seeing this "vision" comes true, which isn't because of people but because it came from me into a reality.

While it may ring true to most and to you, I say this is a very narrowed down vision. You happiness depends on anyone since if there weren't anyone you couldn't be happy or achieve a state of happiness. Where shall your vision stand if such were the case?

 Quote:
It's just stupid, because you don't understand it to the extent that without this hope then life really is nothing.

I understand what you are aiming at, my main focus here is to let you think a little better. From what I gather from your writings you are nothing but a power-hungry vampire who just acts without thinking.
You would love to hone people while not having the skills or position to do so. Your ideas closely resemble closely to the different subcultures who wants to be non-conformists have. While they might sound good and very wise to one, I find them laughable.



Edited by Dimitri (07/14/10 12:22 PM)
_________________________
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#40239 - 07/14/10 12:45 PM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Dimitri]
Dakota Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 60
Loc: Michigan
If there were nobody, then my vision is all in me. It would be nothing except an idea in my head, and that to me is good enough to be in a state of contentment. If I lost this vision then I would go to college, go back to the Catholic Church, find a good job, marry a proper person, raise a decent little family in a decent little home, make my parents satisfied with my life, and then die depressed. That would be the most miserable existence of my life, since I achieved nothing besides raising kids.

It's like I am today, since really no one shares this vision besides me. I am a very content person in the end, since I can walk, read, speak, and make someone smile. Yet, I am a very repressed person since everything about me is locked up in me.

That's fine for now, since I have to finish this chapter of my life before I can move on.

What skills do I need to get what I want that I do not have already? Why am I not in the position to do what I want? The only thing that I do not have to be in this location is that I do not have a medium to come across yet. But I am not a subculture all in my own, I wish I was though lol, but that's something different. I know what I want, and I'll die for it. I can't change my thinking about it, since it would be changing who I am. When you lived my life, then you would understand why I have to have this. I am fighting everything that I was raised to believe is right and wrong. You just see me as an internet "troll" maybe, and this has to happen.

I have to find it first, and that makes all the difference.

The American Dream, it's basically saying you can do anything that you want, and be happy. But the rule is that, it might never happen so that's why it's a dream. You can pursuit it, but it's not guaranteed. If I become the American Dream, then I would be giving hope to many people, basically all the losers in life.


Edited by Dakota (07/14/10 12:53 PM)

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#40624 - 07/21/10 06:28 PM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Clarence]
Meatl Gear Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 41
I view satan as a symbol of great strength. Therefore my Satanism is compatible with selective abstinence as you are displaying willpower against weakness.
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#41277 - 08/02/10 03:12 PM Re: self-indulgence? Not always good. [Re: Meatl Gear]
SODOMIZER Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Meatl Gear
I personally do not believe in total self-indulgence. However, I do not believe "god" or "religion" should dictate what I believe in.


Why not just common sense and logic, including science and philosophical reasoning? Self-indulgence seems to me like a lack of goal rather than a goal: if you don't have something you're working toward, you can at least make yourself "feel better" through self-indulgence.

Working out, staying healthy, learning things and interacting with the world seem to me the opposite principle -- bonding with the world and accepting reality.
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