#39846 - 07/03/10 06:33 AM
Mensa forum topic: "To Forgive or Not to Forgive?"
|
Meq
Banned
active member
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
Loc: UK
|
This was a post I contributed on the Mensa International forums.
I've abridged my post slightly to remove any references to other posts, as it is a closed forum, however this was my position on the topic of debate - "To Forgive or Not to Forgive?":
Self-defense is a distinct issue to after-the-event vengeance.
A psychotherapist I once knew (in thrall to neo-Stoic/Spinozist philosophy) gave the opinion that revenge is nothing but an irrational reaction to one's lack of understanding of the other person's motives. However, although there may be a grain of truth here, by and large I disagree with such a reductionistic approach.
Vengeance (as distinct from self-defense) is important for many whom personal power is important, for the following reasons:
Gaining a reputation as someone who can be harmed with impunity is likely to make one an attractive target for those seeking to exploit one for personal gain, or simply harm one out of sadism. Being excessively forgiving not only gives the message to an amoral perpetrator that "I can get away with harming this person", it may lead them to generalise this to others in general. "Some people are forgiving, I can get away with harming the right ones if I am smart." (Contrary to the views of many liberalists or mystics, I don't see a sweet angel lurking inside the hearts of every such perpetrator merely needing 'education' or 'knowledge' to spread its wings.)
In contrast, judicious use of revenge may lead to a reputation as someone who cannot be harmed with impunity. To those seeking to exploit or harm such a person, this course of action suddenly looks less attractive. Furthermore, not only does taking revenge send out the message: "There are negative consequences for harming this person", it may also send out a more general message: "Harming other people in this manner carries a penalty."
The latter is particularly true when both the original offense and retaliation fall outside the scope of unlawful activity. To give an example, exploiting a vulnerable yet consenting adult for sex (stringing along their feelings) resulting in massive emotional hurt, is often completely legal. Given that social sanctions against such activity are often weak in many quarters, such a perpetrator may only 'learn the lesson' when faced with direct retribution, particularly when the latter is carried out lawfully. Call it lawful vigilantism if you will. The emotional satisfaction received by the bringer of vengeance and/or initial exploitee (whether the same person or a loved one) is another advantage, and a desire for justice may also play a role. However, it may be more about personal power, an important goal for many.
Christian dogma encourages the still-perpetuated prejudice that forgiveness is always "good" and revenge is always "bad" or "evil" (unless God does it), which is often evidenced by many people's overly emotional reactions to the very notion of revenge. However, the above illustrates that this is not always the case, and that excessive forgiveness can lead to more harm than good, when a little revenge would be more appropriate. Promoting such "blanket" forgiveness may even have the effect of eroding already weak social sanctions against certain harmful actions, giving unscrupulous perpetrators free reign. Such a perpetrator's paradise is not my idea of the kind of society I'd like to live in, much less promote.
"A little revenge is more humane than no revenge at all." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Any comments? Critiques?
Meq
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#39874 - 07/03/10 05:00 PM
Re: Mensa forum topic: "To Forgive or Not to Forgive?"
[Re: Morgan]
|
Jake999
senior member
Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2174
|
Interesting......
"that excessive forgiveness can lead to more harm than good, when a little revenge would be more appropriate. Promoting such "blanket" forgiveness may even have the effect of eroding already weak social sanctions against certain harmful actions, giving unscrupulous perpetrators free reign. Such a perpetrator's paradise is not my idea of the kind of society I'd like to live in, much less promote."
M
Interesting indeed, Morgan, but I think it's more a matter of "life in his mind," rather than life in reality in which it can (and should) be applied. Of course, one can come up with all kinds of mitigating factors when one brings the philosophical into the realm or reality. It becomes a game of semantics, but it looks just as hypocritical.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#39880 - 07/03/10 05:26 PM
Re: Mensa forum topic: "To Forgive or Not to Forgive?"
[Re: Michael A.Aquino]
|
Jake999
senior member
Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2174
|
The slave religions generally share in slogan, but ignore in practice, the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." [I know this from reading the first few pages of the Gideon Holy Bible in hotels when there's nothing on TV.]
LOL! Fates protect me from ever being caught in ANY hotel when there's nothing on TV. One of the main reasons I tend to stay in hotel/casinos whenever possible.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#39923 - 07/04/10 06:52 AM
Re: Mensa forum topic: "To Forgive or Not to Forgive?"
[Re: BFranklin]
|
ceruleansteel
member
Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 549
|
Revenge against a higher power is stupidity.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Revenge against a higher power, to me, is even more important than revenge against those who are basically powerless against you. You have everything in your life to thank for this particular opinion, as is evidenced here:
...when a long train of abuses and usurpations...evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future.
Where would we be without these ballsy muthas? Suckin' England's ass?
I have to agree with the idea that revenge is a good way to tell someone to quit fuckin' with you. Just be prepared for the idea that there may be consequences to your actions.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#39969 - 07/04/10 10:11 PM
Re: The Colonists are Revolting!
[Re: Michael A.Aquino]
|
Dakota
Banned
pledge
Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 60
Loc: Michigan
|
Forgive but not forget, since the silly people do not know what they do. And the reason not to forget is to empower yourself when you feel like you are losing your goal. The more enemies someone has, the better.
The ultimate revenge isn't the act of revenge either, since anyone can do "revenge" on someone. I could always strike revenge by spreading a nasty rumor, or hurt them emotionally with some action. So, therefore the ultimate revenge is “make that person hate your guts”. Improve yourself so much that when they look at you, they will think “I am an inferior”. That’s it. That’s power, it’s not what you do, it’s what you become. It’s you, that’s the revenge.
What will I gain though even if I strike revenge? All that extra mental, physical, emotional energy spent on someone who isn't worth a second of my time after I am done with what I needed.
Edited by Dakota (07/04/10 10:12 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: Woland, Mercury_Templar, fakepropht, Nemesis, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Morgan, Bacchae, Diavolo, Asmedious, Fist
|
|
