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#40155 - 07/13/10 02:42 AM Objective Effects of Lying.
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
After a long discussion with a new friend I decided to bring up Ritual because the forecast of the conversation was party LBM with occasional chance of stupidity. I asked him if he ever used "request" during Ritual? he responded he did. This brang up an issue I’ve been fondling alone and under the sheets for a while now.

This is the issue of how lying can effect/affect our Objective universe. Now... during this ritual you ask to be granted a particular object of desire/s. Once this Rite is complete you then tell a friend that you possess this object, but stress that it's sorta "on hold", if you will... is this still lying? Or is it only a lie if it doesn't come true? If this object never reveals itself? How does this concern ethics in accordance with "the good"?

Now, what’s even more nip'tinglin to bite on is how this can effect our Will in the Objective universe. Let me be clear and say for instance I...performed a Rite to obtain a mundane item...but I never use subjective universe to obtain it, meaning I didn't do the actual work necessary to accompany the change needed, on my physical, mental and emotional end.

How/does this effect our Objective universe in accordance to our Will? Does it "thin out" it's effects ...watering down our abilities as magicians?

I am beginning to think it does... if I were to perform Rites but never performed the actions necessary to obtain it here, do I weaken my Will?



Edited by Valor (07/13/10 03:17 AM)
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#40156 - 07/13/10 02:57 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
This is the reason why I didn't read this post: lack of proper spelling and horrific grammar. As a matter of fact, wordrape of this magnitude should constitute a Satanic Felony.

Please use spell-check in the future. It's not difficult.


Edited by ceruleansteel (07/13/10 02:58 AM)
Edit Reason: noneya damned bidness

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#40158 - 07/13/10 03:02 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: ceruleansteel]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
This is the reason why I didn't read this post: lack of proper spelling and horrific grammar. As a matter of fact, wordrape of this magnitude should constitute a Satanic Felony.

Please use spell-check in the future. It's not difficult.


Thanks for such a fine, contributing and attuned intro...finally!, and thanks to you...i'm consumed and seething with new knowledge.

Wordrape?... you just dry reamed an entire new thread! Why did you even bother to reply? seriously? lol

^P.S. my clothes are all unfolded too, any suggestions?

Okay...anyone else wanna take?


Edited by Valor (07/13/10 03:15 AM)
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#40159 - 07/13/10 03:07 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
Apart from the same feelings I echo from CS, I managed to at least try to read your question without hooking off by these reasons.

The response here is quite enough simple. You are not weakening your will, you are merely relying on faith and are lowering yourself to the level of the un-rational religionist.
If you want to have something or want to achieve something, then you have to take action. If not, no cookie for you.

You can claim to others you achieved the goal or received the goods (or say it is on hold), but I am quite sure there are enough a-holes who would demand proof. And if you can't come-up with it you surely are doomed to loose your face and great deals of credibility.


Edited by Dimitri (07/13/10 03:08 AM)
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#40160 - 07/13/10 03:13 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dimitri]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You can claim to others you achieved the goal or received the goods (or say it is on hold), but I am quite sure there are enough a-holes who would demand proof. And if you can't come-up with it you surely are doomed to loose your face and great deals of credibility.


I'm having a tough time with your "proof" opinion here. See, i pratice LBM for reasons i'm comfortable with and i need not apply proof of this work to anyone. I'm doing this selfishly, and rightly so, for my own reasons. do you understand what i'm saying? A selfish application has no need to be proved.
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#40161 - 07/13/10 03:19 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
Your stupidity is really mindblowing...
You practice lower magic by selfish needs, fine with that. But you also claimed to have achieved certain results. If you claimed to have achieved a goal, or claimed to have gotten some goods then I can ask you to proove these claims. If you cannot do so then you are merely self-delusioned.

As based on the original writing:
 Originally Posted By: Valor
This is the issue of how lying can effect/affect our Objective universe. Now... during this ritual you ask to be granted a particular object of desire/s. Once this Rite is complete you then tell a friend that you possess this object, but stress that it's sorta "on hold", if you will... is this still lying? Or is it only a lie if it doesn't come true? If this object never reveals itself? How does this concern ethics in accordance with "the good"?


Edited by Dimitri (07/13/10 03:21 AM)
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#40163 - 07/13/10 03:34 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dimitri]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Your stupidity is really mindblowing...
You practice lower magic by selfish needs, fine with that. But you also claimed to have achieved certain results. If you claimed to have achieved a goal, or claimed to have gotten some goods then I can ask you to proove these claims. If you cannot do so then you are merely self-delusioned.

As based on the original writing:
 Originally Posted By: Valor
This is the issue of how lying can effect/affect our Objective universe. Now... during this ritual you ask to be granted a particular object of desire/s. Once this Rite is complete you then tell a friend that you possess this object, but stress that it's sorta "on hold", if you will... is this still lying? Or is it only a lie if it doesn't come true? If this object never reveals itself? How does this concern ethics in accordance with "the good"?


You can keep your ad hominem attacks, very becoming...i'll even let you talk about my mother when your ready to grow up to a level where we can keep the dialog mature? lol...How mindblowing was it?

Otherwise i'll wait for a more refined responce from someone other than you. Until then consider yourself invisible?

Always and ever forward, Valor.


Edited by Valor (07/13/10 03:36 AM)
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#40164 - 07/13/10 03:36 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dimitri]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Valor
I'm having a tough time with your "proof" opinion here. See, i pratice LBM for reasons i'm comfortable with and i need not apply proof of this work to anyone. I'm doing this selfishly, and rightly so, for my own reasons. do you understand what i'm saying? A selfish application has no need to be proved.

If achieving a certain ends for your own purposes is all you really wanted, why come tell us about it? I mean, if the result it got for you was a reward enough in and of itself, why share the news with us? Why not just revel in the fruits of your efforts alone? The only reason you'd feel the need to come share this with us is to have us stroke your ego, and I doubt you're going to get that with this horrific post.
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#40165 - 07/13/10 03:40 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Valor
You can keep your ad hominem attacks, very becoming...i'll even let you talk about my mother when your ready to grow up to a level where we can keep the dialog mature? lol...How mindblowing was it?

Otherwise i'll wait for a more refined responce from someone other than you. Until then consider yourself invisible?

Always and ever forward, Valor.


An ad hominem, Valor, is when someone makes an insult in lieu of addressing your argument, and claims the insult in and of itself somehow defeated your argument. Dimitri made an insult (and a quite accurate one, mind you) in addition to addressing your argument, not instead of addressing your argument. I can't stand it when people fling around the names of fallacies without any understanding of how to properly apply them. You fail at logic and spelling. I anticipate this thread being locked and you being ousted in the near future. See? I'm psychic!
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#40166 - 07/13/10 03:40 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: XiaoGui17]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
 Originally Posted By: Valor
I'm having a tough time with your "proof" opinion here. See, i pratice LBM for reasons i'm comfortable with and i need not apply proof of this work to anyone. I'm doing this selfishly, and rightly so, for my own reasons. do you understand what i'm saying? A selfish application has no need to be proved.

If achieving a certain ends for your own purposes is all you really wanted, why come tell us about it? I mean, if the result it got for you was a reward enough in and of itself, why share the news with us? Why not just revel in the fruits of your efforts alone? The only reason you'd feel the need to come share this with us is to have us stroke your ego, and I doubt you're going to get that with this horrific post.


lol...You have 50 posts and your already yelling and complaining? Almost can't wait your 100th...

My questions were: how does it Effect our Objective universe If we don't apply means other than Ritual? Can lying effect it also... only two questions. believe me,i'm certain of it. (p.s. i wrote it)

Ego? I assure you i have nothing to tell anyone nor would i want to if i had.

Everyones so inviting around here...i feel really engaged...almost europhoric.


Edited by Valor (07/13/10 04:12 AM)
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#40167 - 07/13/10 03:52 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: XiaoGui17]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
 Originally Posted By: Valor
You can keep your ad hominem attacks, very becoming...i'll even let you talk about my mother when your ready to grow up to a level where we can keep the dialog mature? lol...How mindblowing was it?

Otherwise i'll wait for a more refined responce from someone other than you. Until then consider yourself invisible?

Always and ever forward, Valor.


An ad hominem, Valor, is when someone makes an insult in lieu of addressing your argument, and claims the insult in and of itself somehow defeated your argument. Dimitri made an insult (and a quite accurate one, mind you) in addition to addressing your argument, not instead of addressing your argument. I can't stand it when people fling around the names of fallacies without any understanding of how to properly apply them. You fail at logic and spelling. I anticipate this thread being locked and you being ousted in the near future. See? I'm psychic!


And i mind why? Is it because you said something? Because for some odd reason it's almost as if i couldn't care less for your tutoring skills at the moment... really, i'm sorry, but i just don't have it in me tonight. (not to break it to like this... butI finished 5 years of college without ya)

can we stay on topic?

the three replies i've gotten have been a damn corriculum!

are these the best replies i'm going to hear? Am i not meeting the clubs bar? and if not, will you explain how?

I often found great insite from the 600 club and trust it's still available.

My question was how does it Effect our Objective universe If we don't apply means other than Ritual? Can lying also effect it?.

I trust Dr. Aquino and Jake may have some insight thats valuable, as always.


Edited by Valor (07/13/10 04:30 AM)
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#40184 - 07/13/10 01:41 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
are these the best replies i'm going to hear? Am i not meeting the clubs bar? and if not, will you explain how?


No, you aren't meeting the bar. We tried to explain to you the hows and the whys of it but you are too busy trying in vain to fluff yourself. Your spelling sucks ass, your grammar sucks ass, and you fail at big words and Latin. This is how you are not making the grade.

You are your words here. If your use of the English language is subpar, then by default YOU are subpar. If you can't master your own language then it doesn't matter what impressive thoughts you MIGHT have, no one is going to pay attention to that. We will see your lack of education first and that will be the only thing we see. Stupid people can't possibly have thoughts worth reading.

Stop trying to argue about it and just do better.

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#40187 - 07/13/10 01:55 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If I read this post correctly, what you are saying is:

 Quote:
I do a ritual and wish for a Ferrari
After the ritual I go to my friend and tell him I HAVE a Ferrari

The question is: is this a lie or is it not because, if I do a ritual as such, I surely will get my Ferrari.


Read this again and realize how silly your post is.

The magi out there that wish for a lollipop and act as if they won the lottery when they gain that lollipop is amusing. If this sort of ritual worked, you wonder why they are all sucking that lollipop instead of riding fancy rides from and to their penthouse. Feel free to swap "lollipop" with any easy and probable to gain item that likely even those that don't perform rituals obtain regularly.

Yes you are lying but not to your friend.

D.

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#40201 - 07/13/10 05:25 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: ceruleansteel]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
 Quote:
are these the best replies i'm going to hear? Am i not meeting the clubs bar? and if not, will you explain how?


No, you aren't meeting the bar. We tried to explain to you the hows and the whys of it but you are too busy trying in vain to fluff yourself. Your spelling sucks ass, your grammar sucks ass, and you fail at big words and Latin. This is how you are not making the grade.

You are your words here. If your use of the English language is subpar, then by default YOU are subpar. If you can't master your own language then it doesn't matter what impressive thoughts you MIGHT have, no one is going to pay attention to that. We will see your lack of education first and that will be the only thing we see. Stupid people can't possibly have thoughts worth reading.

Stop trying to argue about it and just do better.


please point where my spelling is in error? Otherwise stay on topic...i dont need your corriculum. Some how i feel your attracted to malice instead of replying to an honest question. If i'm under the "Bar" then why are you gravitatings toward me so much? Aren't you preoccupied with more intellectual threads? but you keep pooping up here? hmmm






Edited by Valor (07/13/10 05:27 PM)
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#40202 - 07/13/10 05:34 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: Valor
please point where my spelling is in error? Otherwise stay on topic...i dont need your corriculum. Some how i feel your attracted to malice instead of replying to an honest question. If i'm under the "Bar" then why are you gravitatings toward me so much? Aren't you preoccupied with more intellectual threads? but you keep pooping up here? hmmm

As indicated in red..
Capital "I" when referring to oneself. New sentences also start with a capital letter, learn the difference between you're/your, somehow is written in 1 word, gravitating instead of gravitatings, and last but not least the single remark you can't poop when residing in a digital place.

I could continue ranting about how unwise it is to tell a familiar to "fuck-off", but instead I like to see you squirming.

http://orangoo.com/spellcheck/ "YOU'RE welcome Dimitri"
--> with pleasure ;\)


Edited by Dimitri (07/13/10 05:39 PM)
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