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#40204 - 07/13/10 06:49 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dimitri]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
You forgot to mention that they misspelled curriculum and euphoric, unless europhoric was supposed to be a play on words.

I highly doubt that Valor completed 5 days of college and he wants us to believe that he completed 5 years. If that were true then he should have a degree that enables him to get a job which would allow him to buy a Ferrari and wouldn't have to result to something so ridiculous as performing a ritual to get one.

If you tell somebody something that is not true then it is, by default, a lie. Not a hard concept to grasp.

If all you do is perform rituals to obtain your desires and don't take any real action then your chances of obtaining said desires are about as good as they would be if you prayed.
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#40206 - 07/13/10 06:55 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Valor


This is the issue of how lying can effect/affect our Objective universe. Now... during this ritual you ask to be granted a particular object of desire/s. Once this Rite is complete you then tell a friend that you possess this object, but stress that it's sorta "on hold", if you will... is this still lying? Or is it only a lie if it doesn't come true? If this object never reveals itself?

Only if you define lying as saying something that isn't true. Are you really asking if something can be true just because you wish it to be?

 Quote:
How does this concern ethics in accordance with "the good"?

The good? From my perspective the good is what serves my Will. You seem to be implying some sort of external 'good'. What would that be? And to what sort of ethics do you refer?
 Quote:

Now, what’s even more nip'tinglin to bite on is how this can effect our Will in the Objective universe. Let me be clear and say for instance I...performed a Rite to obtain a mundane item...but I never use subjective universe to obtain it, meaning I didn't do the actual work necessary to accompany the change needed, on my physical, mental and emotional end.

How/does this effect our Objective universe in accordance to our Will? Does it "thin out" it's effects ...watering down our abilities as magicians?

What you are describing is prayer. Does praying reduce our magical abilities? I guess it depends what you mean by magical abilities. If you are talking about some sort direct supernatural means, I would probably just laugh at you..so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are talking about our ability to effect the objective universe by way of the subjective. The answer to that hinges on whether you believe praying works. Do you?

 Quote:

I am beginning to think it does... if I were to perform Rites but never performed the actions necessary to obtain it here, do I weaken my Will?


I would say if you only want something bad enough to make a half assed wish for it rather than make an effort to make it happen yourself, your will is already weak.
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#40216 - 07/13/10 09:51 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
 Quote:
And i mind why? Is it because you said something? Because for some odd reason it's almost as if i couldn't care less for your tutoring skills at the moment... really, i'm sorry, but i just don't have it in me tonight. (not to break it to like this... butI finished 5 years of college without ya



Congratulations on earning your associates degree.
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#40218 - 07/13/10 10:43 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Asmedious]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
 Quote:
And i mind why? Is it because you said something? Because for some odd reason it's almost as if i couldn't care less for your tutoring skills at the moment... really, i'm sorry, but i just don't have it in me tonight. (not to break it to like this... butI finished 5 years of college without ya



Congratulations on earning your associates degree.


My sincerest thanks to you...but it's my Bachelor's. (masters next year)

I think this thread has been compromised..lol..holy hell. All this over two questions..lmao
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#40219 - 07/13/10 10:51 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
[quote=Dan_Dread

You Wrote: Only if you define lying as saying something that isn't true. Are you really asking if something can be true just because you wish it to be?Ahhh..finally, an articulated reply.

I understand exactly what your saying Dan. But if i were to request this object after i told him i posessed it. Is that still a lie?

lol..ok, For instance, lets say i performed a Working and requested a salad spinner, then i told you days later that i had one...then a month goes by and my mother comes over out of nowhere and drops a "salad Spinner" on my counter because she has 2...would what i told you a month ago still be considered a lie? Or does magical prowess negate it?


You Wrote:What you are describing is prayer. Does praying reduce our magical abilities? I guess it depends what you mean by magical abilities. If you are talking about some sort direct supernatural means, I would probably just laugh at you..so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are talking about our ability to effect the objective universe by way of the subjective. The answer to that hinges on whether you believe praying works. Do you?

Great reply! But we can also argue the tiny difference between "Prayer" and "Spell"... are those two really that seperate from one another? Or are they so close it's spooky?


Edited by Valor (07/13/10 10:59 PM)
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#40220 - 07/13/10 10:56 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Again..since time only works in one direction..of course not. That's like telling someone you aren't a virgin in the hope of one day getting laid.
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#40221 - 07/13/10 11:02 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Again..since time only works in one direction..of course not. That's like telling someone you aren't a virgin in the hope of one day getting laid.


lmao...very good.

Ok, now how do you suppose it effects our subjective universe when we don't perform the work necessary that aids in aquiring this item...(blow it off) Does our Will degenerate?
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#40222 - 07/13/10 11:04 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Seems like a bit of a non sequiter. How is one connected to the other?
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#40224 - 07/13/10 11:52 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



There is Lesser Magic. Two useful definitions below:

‘Non-ritual or manipulative magic, sometimes called "LESSER MAGIC", consists of the wile and guile obtained through various devices and contrived situations, which when utilized, can create "change, in accordance with one's will". In olden times this would be called "fascination", "glamour", or the "evil eye".’ ASLV. TSB. P.60.

‘Lesser Black Magic (LBM) is the influencing of beings, processes, or objects in the objective universe by the application of obscure physical or behavioural laws.’ MAA. TOS. Appendix 10.

Then there is Greater Magic. Two useful definitions below:

The change in situations or events in accordance with one's will, which would, using normally accepted methods, be unchangeable.’ ASLV. TSB P 110.

“Greater Black Magic (GBM) is the causing of change to occur in the subjective universe in accordance with the will. This change in the subjective universe may cause a similar and proportionate change in the objective universe.” Michael Aquino. The 600C.

To speak of a ritual or a rite is to speak of Greater Magic.

To doubt or to regard the is-to-be being articulated in the ritual as a lie is to undermine the ritual process itself. Sincerity is a key.

To doubt or to regard the is-to-be as a lie, outside and after the ritual is performed, is to undermine the effect that the ritual may/will/can have. Remember you do it and than you forget it and regard it as done.

To alter the OU via the SU happens because the ritual is effective in a genuinely supernormal sense, or because self transformation has taken place as a result of the ritual and therefore action via LM or normally accepted methods is easier.

Regarding it as a Lie waters down the effect either way.

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#40225 - 07/14/10 12:46 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
You forgot to mention that they misspelled curriculum and euphoric, unless europhoric was supposed to be a play on words.

I highly doubt that Valor completed 5 days of college and he wants us to believe that he completed 5 years. If that were true then he should have a degree that enables him to get a job which would allow him to buy a Ferrari and wouldn't have to result to something so ridiculous as performing a ritual to get one.

If you tell somebody something that is not true then it is, by default, a lie. Not a hard concept to grasp.

If all you do is perform rituals to obtain your desires and don't take any real action then your chances of obtaining said desires are about as good as they would be if you prayed.



I never mentioned anything about a Farrari, nor did i say i lied about anything at all... I was asking a question of "what if a lie took place when"... I make it a habit to be honest.
and don't worry about my education.

P.s. It would bother you to know that i'll never have to work a day in my life if i chose not to and still be finacially secure. This is the benifit of having extremely sucessful parents.

listen, dont feel threatened 6satan, i'm only here for questions and knowledge, not to make friends...i have enough. Besides... your not too friendly.

Why is it when someone mispells a word or two here they get pulpit pounded and the thread gets poluted? If you don't like my couple mispelled words...go away. But some here actually take the time to ridicule and feel they need to tutor, why are you couple so irritating? Why all this malice over a mispelled word? Have you even challenged your own vices? Have you looked into the mirror today and found nothing to improve? Or is it that your so perfectly refined? Don't worry about my spelling, worry about challenging your own hinderences. It's pathetic.

Thank you sincerely to those who read it for what it actually is and posted with integrity and educational input. I know this forum is full of potential.
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#40226 - 07/14/10 01:38 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Valor does have a point..there is more than enough nonsense to shred without having to resort to pointing out his lazy posting habits. Like the fact there is no substance behind any of this, and it is pure quasi-intellectual fluff, as an example. Or the fact that not a hint of logic or reasoning is displayed in either the premise or the conclusion, which is basically a series of un related non sequiters and bald assertions.


"Lying isn't lying if one day the thing you are talking about may happen but it weakens your will to do it for some reason not addressed"

Worst...thread....ever.
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#40227 - 07/14/10 01:51 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
First off I mentioned the misspellings in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way and it was directed more at Dimitri than you. Then again, you did ask to have your spelling errors pointed out. And as someone who has supposedly finished five years of college you should be able spell simple words like curriculum and euphoric. The fact that you can't leads me to believe that you haven't finished five years of college like you say you did. It is not that I am worried about your education, I just call bullshit whenever and wherever I see it.

After re-reading the thread I see that you didn't mention the Ferrari and that it was Diavolo who placed it in a quote of yours. Mea culpa.

Am I bothered by the fact that you think leaching off your successful parents is a viable option? Absolutely not, I am not them. Not that I think your "extremely successful parents" exist anymore than your bachelor's degree. But if it is true then it is pathetic that you would pepper that into your argument as if it makes it anymore valid. Or were you simply trying to brag?

I certainly don't feel threatened by you and don't know why you would think that I am. It never crossed my mind that you might be here to make friends and nor do I care your reasons for being here. What I do care about is maintaining some sort of standard of post quality on this forum. If that means that I come across as "unfriendly" to some then so be it.

What is it with people who can't learn how to properly use spelling, grammar and punctuation or at least use a program that will help supplement any lacking of knowledge in the aforementioned areas? What is it with people who come here and think that anyone should give a shit what their questions are especially if those questions are asinine?

If you don't like the way things are done around here then you can go away. I've been posting here regularly for close to two years now and I don't see myself departing anytime soon. I like it here, there are some very cool and intelligent people amongst the ranks. And it because I like it that I get so annoyed when people like you come on here, spouting your incoherent garbage and then bitch and moan when someone calls you on it. And as long as you continue to post garbage I am going to continue to ridicule you for it until you improve, get banned or leave on your own. Any one of those outcomes is fine with me.

/Rant

P.S. your question "Have you even challenged your own vices?" makes no sense. ;\)
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#40231 - 07/14/10 06:46 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Valor does have a point..there is more than enough nonsense to shred without having to resort to pointing out his lazy posting habits. Like the fact there is no substance behind any of this, and it is pure quasi-intellectual fluff, as an example. Or the fact that not a hint of logic or reasoning is displayed in either the premise or the conclusion, which is basically a series of un related non sequiters and bald assertions.


"Lying isn't lying if one day the thing you are talking about may happen but it weakens your will to do it for some reason not addressed"


Thank you..my thoughts exactly.
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#40232 - 07/14/10 06:52 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

P.S. your question "Have you even challenged your own vices?" makes no sense. ;\)


Maybe you need a friend...but i assure you son, its not me. I'm 33 and own a small construction firm, me and 3 guys...so i do work my ass off and balanced school and family. I never asked by parents for a dime, but the option is there if all else fails.

So, i didn't finish reading your rant about my spelling and education, but understand i know you want the attention...its common for the beginner. But it's more attuned to the immature Practice of LHP philosophy and practice.


My question is simple...have you met your own vices head on without having to side-track to my spelling...lol.. listen, i've been treading this Path for 16 years and found that refinement of the Self is our greatest tool in Initiation. So my question makes sense..unless of course i spent it wrong?

LMAO...this may have been the worst thread ever..but i learned enough and it was eternally worth it. We can't put a price on Initiation and when we grow...we "Become"


Edited by Valor (07/14/10 07:00 AM)
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#40233 - 07/14/10 08:31 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
GillesdeRais Offline
member


Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 141
Oh, dude...Now you've gone and done it. If you listen carefully to the wind, the slavering hordes are getting ready to descend on you. And they have sharp, pointy teeth, and smell like BO and cigarettes. No, wait...That's Juggaloes. \:\)
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