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#40336 - 07/16/10 11:15 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Valor]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Valor

Congratulations fnord. Have you found a way to use your talents as an occupation. I had a tough time with this only because there are so many artists looking for work.

I guess we are being looked down on because we went to art school.


I'm not going to go down that road with you, sir.

No one here was looking down on anyone because they went to art school. XiaoGui17 posted an off the cuff remark that I purposely twisted around for the very reason that I knew she didn't mean it the way it came across.

As for your other question, no, I never have made a living with my art. When I finished school I was working construction and found that construction pay circa 1990 was about double of entry level artist pay and by that time I was married with a baby on the way.

Knowing of my art background, my employer asked me if I had any drafting experience and I told him that I'd taken a few courses and the rest I'd figure out. I spent my days working 1/2 construction and 1/2 drawing plans for the next week of work. I quickly became aware of computers/Cad and convinced my boss that we needed a CAD system. I worked that into a job and got him to pay for CAD training for me. I spent a few years figuring out CAD and eventually landed on an idea that I needed to be able to extract data from drawings because we stored a ton of info in the drawings themselves. I built a few database applications to do so and that got me some attention in the architectural community of the day. I eventually moved on from that position and went to work for a global furniture company that specialized in office cubes and walls. I built several systems that counted inventories, compared inventories, allowed ordering product from drawings etc which eventually led me to my current position in Cad systems design/database in a huge computer company you've heard of.

During all of that time I've missed art though. I've gotten fairly proficient in photoshop and illustrator and have played around a bunch with flash. Part of my job now involves sharing data on the intranet so I've also become quite proficient in web design (back to the art).

SO, my ultimate goal is to get a small web design company up and running in tandem with my career (which I love). I'm about 70% on that right now and am working toward being live by the end of the calendar year.

Damn, everything you never wanted to know about Fnord. Sorry about that, guess I was in a sharing mood.
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Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#40337 - 07/16/10 11:28 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Fnord]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
 Originally Posted By: Valor

Congratulations fnord. Have you found a way to use your talents as an occupation. I had a tough time with this only because there are so many artists looking for work.

I guess we are being looked down on because we went to art school.


I'm not going to go down that road with you, sir.

No one here was looking down on anyone because they went to art school. XiaoGui17 posted an off the cuff remark that I purposely twisted around for the very reason that I knew she didn't mean it the way it came across.

As for your other question, no, I never have made a living with my art. When I finished school I was working construction and found that construction pay circa 1990 was about double of entry level artist pay and by that time I was married with a baby on the way.

Knowing of my art background, my employer asked me if I had any drafting experience and I told him that I'd taken a few courses and the rest I'd figure out. I spent my days working 1/2 construction and 1/2 drawing plans for the next week of work. I quickly became aware of computers/Cad and convinced my boss that we needed a CAD system. I worked that into a job and got him to pay for CAD training for me. I spent a few years figuring out CAD and eventually landed on an idea that I needed to be able to extract data from drawings because we stored a ton of info in the drawings themselves. I built a few database applications to do so and that got me some attention in the architectural community of the day. I eventually moved on from that position and went to work for a global furniture company that specialized in office cubes and walls. I built several systems that counted inventories, compared inventories, allowed ordering product from drawings etc which eventually led me to my current position in Cad systems design/database in a huge computer company you've heard of.

During all of that time I've missed art though. I've gotten fairly proficient in photoshop and illustrator and have played around a bunch with flash. Part of my job now involves sharing data on the intranet so I've also become quite proficient in web design (back to the art).

SO, my ultimate goal is to get a small web design company up and running in tandem with my career (which I love). I'm about 70% on that right now and am working toward being live by the end of the calendar year.

Damn, everything you never wanted to know about Fnord. Sorry about that, guess I was in a sharing mood.


No need to apologize for an inspiring story. Sincerely, congratulations. It looks like afterall you have turned your art into a system that works for you. LBM at it's finest.
_________________________
~there are none so blind as those who will not listen~

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#40385 - 07/17/10 09:48 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Valor]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1137
Loc: Amarillo, TX
Curses! I saw that Valor had recently posted in this thread and came happily skipping back, anticipating some fresh, raw, bloody meat. Instead I found myself wondering where Valor had posted and having to scroll back up and double-check. The damn bastard actually made a post that was so coherent I thought it was someone else. I guess he's finally learned to adapt to the forums. My prediction was wrong; I guess I'll be seeing him around a little longer.

There is only one grammar error in his post (the use of "it's" with an apostrophe as a possessive). And I can't really fault him for that because 1) It's a common error that even the educated make, 2) He's certainly not the only one to make it in these forums, and 3) I can still understand what he's saying in spite of it; it doesn't make his post difficult to read. I could drag him across the coals for posting an unnecessarily long quote above what is essentially a "one-liner," but even I'm not that much of a board nazi. And no, this isn't just paralipsis for its own sake. I just want to clarify, in case someone else points this out, that I am capable of discerning even the most discreet of booboos. ;\) (Note that I myself almost used "discrete," but aware of how these two terms are discrete, and my own forgetfulness, I Googled it.)

P.S. Web design? (o_o) Keep me posted on the development of your company, Fnord. I may hire you once I've completed the P.A. process. (Admittedly, this will take a while, but I imagine you've got a lot of your own getting ready to do.)
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Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

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#40467 - 07/19/10 01:01 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Valor]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
No one looked down on you for going to art school. Much to the dismay of a leftbrainer like myself, there are more than enough artists around here to go around, and quite a few of them are respected here. You got your ass lit up because - as many have already tried to explain - you are your words here. You can go on all day and night about how much education you have but if you can't compose a sentence that reflects your English-as-a-first-language, no one is going to give a shit.

You opened the door for criticism of your education when you brought it up. You composed a halfassed post that was a grammatical fuckin' nightmare and made no sense at all and when you were called on it (and you claim you lurked so you should have seen THAT comin') you tried to act like just because you have some alleged education that we should let you slide. Sorry. That doesn't happen here. The claim that you are educated will only incite the wolves when you post like a moron.

Whether you were drunk or high, or you have an illiterate other personality, I can see that you are attempting to redeem yourself. So a little further advice: don't beat this dead horse. Stop replying to this thread so that it all blows over and you don't feel like you have to keep defending that which has no business being defended. Continue to make posts elsewhere that don't look like a five year old shit himself and smeared your keyboard with it and over time you wont be thought of as that newest idiot on the forum that we make backroom bets on.

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#50302 - 03/02/11 12:53 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dimitri]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
The objective effect of lying is to recognise that others are dishonourable and are telling lies. To know this you will tell the truth that is your truth being the only truth that will work for the objective, this is to be truthful to ones self and recognise what others want to hear for your objective, this is not a lie because the only lie one can tell is to himself, being deceitful to ourselves as in portraying a badly put together truth which has nothing to do with a happening in real life we only risk ourselves being shamed and held in contempt. Rather by presenting a truth of real life events as they can be perceived in a way favourable to you, this is not lying but an objectively presented truth to others.

People often submit to answering direct yes and no answers this is a fallacy and an imposed judgement may be made, you have the right to answer however you like as truth is not limited to how others command you to verbalise. A yes or no has to come at the end of a sentence or you may be cut off and denied your presentation of the truth.

Remember that. If somebody gets aggressive and asks for a direct yes or no answer they have loaded a response for both that will go against your representation of the truth.

Never back down from somebody trying to force you to answer their way. Tell the truth as you see fit. If you lie it will only be to yourself. Rather look at the objective events and present them in the correct light.
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#50768 - 03/10/11 05:29 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Hegesias]
AdonKilravok Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/04/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Kingdom of Wessex
Due to the uncertainty wether or not the ritual worked or not, saying that you got your wish granted might turn out a lie, but it might turn out the truth. However, if the ritual is all you ever done to achieve your goal, then it most likely will turn out a lie. The ritual only focusses and defines your will. But it is your actions which give your will its power to affect the world. To not act upon a ritual, promiss or intent is indeed watering down one's will and might.
I personally define lieing as speaking against better knowing, meaning, if you know its one way and you state its the other way, its lying. If you state its one way because you truely believe its that way, then its not lying even if its false. If you state its one way even though you don't really believe it is then its not lieing, its dishonesty, even if it really is that way.
Lying and dishonnesty are both, in my opinion, signs of low character. They are always insulting, even polite or 'white' lies, and they prove nothing other thasn that one doesn't trust the opposite nor is oneself trustworthy.

Just the twopens of a noob who never seen an accademic faculty from the inside. Please forgive if i don't make sense or have too many typos.
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For Honour, Loyalty, Integrity ... and other Fairy Tales of times long past

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#50772 - 03/10/11 09:10 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: AdonKilravok]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Whenever the individual speaks, he speaks from his own nature. Is the individual fearfully moral or is he sinister? Bear in mind that telling the truth so completely may destroy a man so completely. Lies are reserved for those minds deserving of a lesser poison. Only a fool lies to himself or his woman.
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