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#40155 - 07/13/10 02:42 AM Objective Effects of Lying.
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
After a long discussion with a new friend I decided to bring up Ritual because the forecast of the conversation was party LBM with occasional chance of stupidity. I asked him if he ever used "request" during Ritual? he responded he did. This brang up an issue I’ve been fondling alone and under the sheets for a while now.

This is the issue of how lying can effect/affect our Objective universe. Now... during this ritual you ask to be granted a particular object of desire/s. Once this Rite is complete you then tell a friend that you possess this object, but stress that it's sorta "on hold", if you will... is this still lying? Or is it only a lie if it doesn't come true? If this object never reveals itself? How does this concern ethics in accordance with "the good"?

Now, what’s even more nip'tinglin to bite on is how this can effect our Will in the Objective universe. Let me be clear and say for instance I...performed a Rite to obtain a mundane item...but I never use subjective universe to obtain it, meaning I didn't do the actual work necessary to accompany the change needed, on my physical, mental and emotional end.

How/does this effect our Objective universe in accordance to our Will? Does it "thin out" it's effects ...watering down our abilities as magicians?

I am beginning to think it does... if I were to perform Rites but never performed the actions necessary to obtain it here, do I weaken my Will?



Edited by Valor (07/13/10 03:17 AM)
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#40156 - 07/13/10 02:57 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
This is the reason why I didn't read this post: lack of proper spelling and horrific grammar. As a matter of fact, wordrape of this magnitude should constitute a Satanic Felony.

Please use spell-check in the future. It's not difficult.


Edited by ceruleansteel (07/13/10 02:58 AM)
Edit Reason: noneya damned bidness

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#40158 - 07/13/10 03:02 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: ceruleansteel]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
This is the reason why I didn't read this post: lack of proper spelling and horrific grammar. As a matter of fact, wordrape of this magnitude should constitute a Satanic Felony.

Please use spell-check in the future. It's not difficult.


Thanks for such a fine, contributing and attuned intro...finally!, and thanks to you...i'm consumed and seething with new knowledge.

Wordrape?... you just dry reamed an entire new thread! Why did you even bother to reply? seriously? lol

^P.S. my clothes are all unfolded too, any suggestions?

Okay...anyone else wanna take?


Edited by Valor (07/13/10 03:15 AM)
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#40159 - 07/13/10 03:07 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
Apart from the same feelings I echo from CS, I managed to at least try to read your question without hooking off by these reasons.

The response here is quite enough simple. You are not weakening your will, you are merely relying on faith and are lowering yourself to the level of the un-rational religionist.
If you want to have something or want to achieve something, then you have to take action. If not, no cookie for you.

You can claim to others you achieved the goal or received the goods (or say it is on hold), but I am quite sure there are enough a-holes who would demand proof. And if you can't come-up with it you surely are doomed to loose your face and great deals of credibility.


Edited by Dimitri (07/13/10 03:08 AM)
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#40160 - 07/13/10 03:13 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dimitri]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You can claim to others you achieved the goal or received the goods (or say it is on hold), but I am quite sure there are enough a-holes who would demand proof. And if you can't come-up with it you surely are doomed to loose your face and great deals of credibility.


I'm having a tough time with your "proof" opinion here. See, i pratice LBM for reasons i'm comfortable with and i need not apply proof of this work to anyone. I'm doing this selfishly, and rightly so, for my own reasons. do you understand what i'm saying? A selfish application has no need to be proved.
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#40161 - 07/13/10 03:19 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
Your stupidity is really mindblowing...
You practice lower magic by selfish needs, fine with that. But you also claimed to have achieved certain results. If you claimed to have achieved a goal, or claimed to have gotten some goods then I can ask you to proove these claims. If you cannot do so then you are merely self-delusioned.

As based on the original writing:
 Originally Posted By: Valor
This is the issue of how lying can effect/affect our Objective universe. Now... during this ritual you ask to be granted a particular object of desire/s. Once this Rite is complete you then tell a friend that you possess this object, but stress that it's sorta "on hold", if you will... is this still lying? Or is it only a lie if it doesn't come true? If this object never reveals itself? How does this concern ethics in accordance with "the good"?


Edited by Dimitri (07/13/10 03:21 AM)
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#40163 - 07/13/10 03:34 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dimitri]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Your stupidity is really mindblowing...
You practice lower magic by selfish needs, fine with that. But you also claimed to have achieved certain results. If you claimed to have achieved a goal, or claimed to have gotten some goods then I can ask you to proove these claims. If you cannot do so then you are merely self-delusioned.

As based on the original writing:
 Originally Posted By: Valor
This is the issue of how lying can effect/affect our Objective universe. Now... during this ritual you ask to be granted a particular object of desire/s. Once this Rite is complete you then tell a friend that you possess this object, but stress that it's sorta "on hold", if you will... is this still lying? Or is it only a lie if it doesn't come true? If this object never reveals itself? How does this concern ethics in accordance with "the good"?


You can keep your ad hominem attacks, very becoming...i'll even let you talk about my mother when your ready to grow up to a level where we can keep the dialog mature? lol...How mindblowing was it?

Otherwise i'll wait for a more refined responce from someone other than you. Until then consider yourself invisible?

Always and ever forward, Valor.


Edited by Valor (07/13/10 03:36 AM)
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#40164 - 07/13/10 03:36 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dimitri]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Valor
I'm having a tough time with your "proof" opinion here. See, i pratice LBM for reasons i'm comfortable with and i need not apply proof of this work to anyone. I'm doing this selfishly, and rightly so, for my own reasons. do you understand what i'm saying? A selfish application has no need to be proved.

If achieving a certain ends for your own purposes is all you really wanted, why come tell us about it? I mean, if the result it got for you was a reward enough in and of itself, why share the news with us? Why not just revel in the fruits of your efforts alone? The only reason you'd feel the need to come share this with us is to have us stroke your ego, and I doubt you're going to get that with this horrific post.
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#40165 - 07/13/10 03:40 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Valor
You can keep your ad hominem attacks, very becoming...i'll even let you talk about my mother when your ready to grow up to a level where we can keep the dialog mature? lol...How mindblowing was it?

Otherwise i'll wait for a more refined responce from someone other than you. Until then consider yourself invisible?

Always and ever forward, Valor.


An ad hominem, Valor, is when someone makes an insult in lieu of addressing your argument, and claims the insult in and of itself somehow defeated your argument. Dimitri made an insult (and a quite accurate one, mind you) in addition to addressing your argument, not instead of addressing your argument. I can't stand it when people fling around the names of fallacies without any understanding of how to properly apply them. You fail at logic and spelling. I anticipate this thread being locked and you being ousted in the near future. See? I'm psychic!
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#40166 - 07/13/10 03:40 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: XiaoGui17]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
 Originally Posted By: Valor
I'm having a tough time with your "proof" opinion here. See, i pratice LBM for reasons i'm comfortable with and i need not apply proof of this work to anyone. I'm doing this selfishly, and rightly so, for my own reasons. do you understand what i'm saying? A selfish application has no need to be proved.

If achieving a certain ends for your own purposes is all you really wanted, why come tell us about it? I mean, if the result it got for you was a reward enough in and of itself, why share the news with us? Why not just revel in the fruits of your efforts alone? The only reason you'd feel the need to come share this with us is to have us stroke your ego, and I doubt you're going to get that with this horrific post.


lol...You have 50 posts and your already yelling and complaining? Almost can't wait your 100th...

My questions were: how does it Effect our Objective universe If we don't apply means other than Ritual? Can lying effect it also... only two questions. believe me,i'm certain of it. (p.s. i wrote it)

Ego? I assure you i have nothing to tell anyone nor would i want to if i had.

Everyones so inviting around here...i feel really engaged...almost europhoric.


Edited by Valor (07/13/10 04:12 AM)
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#40167 - 07/13/10 03:52 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: XiaoGui17]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
 Originally Posted By: Valor
You can keep your ad hominem attacks, very becoming...i'll even let you talk about my mother when your ready to grow up to a level where we can keep the dialog mature? lol...How mindblowing was it?

Otherwise i'll wait for a more refined responce from someone other than you. Until then consider yourself invisible?

Always and ever forward, Valor.


An ad hominem, Valor, is when someone makes an insult in lieu of addressing your argument, and claims the insult in and of itself somehow defeated your argument. Dimitri made an insult (and a quite accurate one, mind you) in addition to addressing your argument, not instead of addressing your argument. I can't stand it when people fling around the names of fallacies without any understanding of how to properly apply them. You fail at logic and spelling. I anticipate this thread being locked and you being ousted in the near future. See? I'm psychic!


And i mind why? Is it because you said something? Because for some odd reason it's almost as if i couldn't care less for your tutoring skills at the moment... really, i'm sorry, but i just don't have it in me tonight. (not to break it to like this... butI finished 5 years of college without ya)

can we stay on topic?

the three replies i've gotten have been a damn corriculum!

are these the best replies i'm going to hear? Am i not meeting the clubs bar? and if not, will you explain how?

I often found great insite from the 600 club and trust it's still available.

My question was how does it Effect our Objective universe If we don't apply means other than Ritual? Can lying also effect it?.

I trust Dr. Aquino and Jake may have some insight thats valuable, as always.


Edited by Valor (07/13/10 04:30 AM)
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#40184 - 07/13/10 01:41 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
are these the best replies i'm going to hear? Am i not meeting the clubs bar? and if not, will you explain how?


No, you aren't meeting the bar. We tried to explain to you the hows and the whys of it but you are too busy trying in vain to fluff yourself. Your spelling sucks ass, your grammar sucks ass, and you fail at big words and Latin. This is how you are not making the grade.

You are your words here. If your use of the English language is subpar, then by default YOU are subpar. If you can't master your own language then it doesn't matter what impressive thoughts you MIGHT have, no one is going to pay attention to that. We will see your lack of education first and that will be the only thing we see. Stupid people can't possibly have thoughts worth reading.

Stop trying to argue about it and just do better.

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#40187 - 07/13/10 01:55 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If I read this post correctly, what you are saying is:

 Quote:
I do a ritual and wish for a Ferrari
After the ritual I go to my friend and tell him I HAVE a Ferrari

The question is: is this a lie or is it not because, if I do a ritual as such, I surely will get my Ferrari.


Read this again and realize how silly your post is.

The magi out there that wish for a lollipop and act as if they won the lottery when they gain that lollipop is amusing. If this sort of ritual worked, you wonder why they are all sucking that lollipop instead of riding fancy rides from and to their penthouse. Feel free to swap "lollipop" with any easy and probable to gain item that likely even those that don't perform rituals obtain regularly.

Yes you are lying but not to your friend.

D.

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#40201 - 07/13/10 05:25 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: ceruleansteel]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
 Quote:
are these the best replies i'm going to hear? Am i not meeting the clubs bar? and if not, will you explain how?


No, you aren't meeting the bar. We tried to explain to you the hows and the whys of it but you are too busy trying in vain to fluff yourself. Your spelling sucks ass, your grammar sucks ass, and you fail at big words and Latin. This is how you are not making the grade.

You are your words here. If your use of the English language is subpar, then by default YOU are subpar. If you can't master your own language then it doesn't matter what impressive thoughts you MIGHT have, no one is going to pay attention to that. We will see your lack of education first and that will be the only thing we see. Stupid people can't possibly have thoughts worth reading.

Stop trying to argue about it and just do better.


please point where my spelling is in error? Otherwise stay on topic...i dont need your corriculum. Some how i feel your attracted to malice instead of replying to an honest question. If i'm under the "Bar" then why are you gravitatings toward me so much? Aren't you preoccupied with more intellectual threads? but you keep pooping up here? hmmm






Edited by Valor (07/13/10 05:27 PM)
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#40202 - 07/13/10 05:34 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
 Originally Posted By: Valor
please point where my spelling is in error? Otherwise stay on topic...i dont need your corriculum. Some how i feel your attracted to malice instead of replying to an honest question. If i'm under the "Bar" then why are you gravitatings toward me so much? Aren't you preoccupied with more intellectual threads? but you keep pooping up here? hmmm

As indicated in red..
Capital "I" when referring to oneself. New sentences also start with a capital letter, learn the difference between you're/your, somehow is written in 1 word, gravitating instead of gravitatings, and last but not least the single remark you can't poop when residing in a digital place.

I could continue ranting about how unwise it is to tell a familiar to "fuck-off", but instead I like to see you squirming.

http://orangoo.com/spellcheck/ "YOU'RE welcome Dimitri"
--> with pleasure ;\)


Edited by Dimitri (07/13/10 05:39 PM)
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#40204 - 07/13/10 06:49 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dimitri]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
You forgot to mention that they misspelled curriculum and euphoric, unless europhoric was supposed to be a play on words.

I highly doubt that Valor completed 5 days of college and he wants us to believe that he completed 5 years. If that were true then he should have a degree that enables him to get a job which would allow him to buy a Ferrari and wouldn't have to result to something so ridiculous as performing a ritual to get one.

If you tell somebody something that is not true then it is, by default, a lie. Not a hard concept to grasp.

If all you do is perform rituals to obtain your desires and don't take any real action then your chances of obtaining said desires are about as good as they would be if you prayed.
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#40206 - 07/13/10 06:55 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Valor


This is the issue of how lying can effect/affect our Objective universe. Now... during this ritual you ask to be granted a particular object of desire/s. Once this Rite is complete you then tell a friend that you possess this object, but stress that it's sorta "on hold", if you will... is this still lying? Or is it only a lie if it doesn't come true? If this object never reveals itself?

Only if you define lying as saying something that isn't true. Are you really asking if something can be true just because you wish it to be?

 Quote:
How does this concern ethics in accordance with "the good"?

The good? From my perspective the good is what serves my Will. You seem to be implying some sort of external 'good'. What would that be? And to what sort of ethics do you refer?
 Quote:

Now, what’s even more nip'tinglin to bite on is how this can effect our Will in the Objective universe. Let me be clear and say for instance I...performed a Rite to obtain a mundane item...but I never use subjective universe to obtain it, meaning I didn't do the actual work necessary to accompany the change needed, on my physical, mental and emotional end.

How/does this effect our Objective universe in accordance to our Will? Does it "thin out" it's effects ...watering down our abilities as magicians?

What you are describing is prayer. Does praying reduce our magical abilities? I guess it depends what you mean by magical abilities. If you are talking about some sort direct supernatural means, I would probably just laugh at you..so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are talking about our ability to effect the objective universe by way of the subjective. The answer to that hinges on whether you believe praying works. Do you?

 Quote:

I am beginning to think it does... if I were to perform Rites but never performed the actions necessary to obtain it here, do I weaken my Will?


I would say if you only want something bad enough to make a half assed wish for it rather than make an effort to make it happen yourself, your will is already weak.
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#40216 - 07/13/10 09:51 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1753
Loc: New York
 Quote:
And i mind why? Is it because you said something? Because for some odd reason it's almost as if i couldn't care less for your tutoring skills at the moment... really, i'm sorry, but i just don't have it in me tonight. (not to break it to like this... butI finished 5 years of college without ya



Congratulations on earning your associates degree.
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#40218 - 07/13/10 10:43 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Asmedious]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
 Quote:
And i mind why? Is it because you said something? Because for some odd reason it's almost as if i couldn't care less for your tutoring skills at the moment... really, i'm sorry, but i just don't have it in me tonight. (not to break it to like this... butI finished 5 years of college without ya



Congratulations on earning your associates degree.


My sincerest thanks to you...but it's my Bachelor's. (masters next year)

I think this thread has been compromised..lol..holy hell. All this over two questions..lmao
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#40219 - 07/13/10 10:51 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
[quote=Dan_Dread

You Wrote: Only if you define lying as saying something that isn't true. Are you really asking if something can be true just because you wish it to be?Ahhh..finally, an articulated reply.

I understand exactly what your saying Dan. But if i were to request this object after i told him i posessed it. Is that still a lie?

lol..ok, For instance, lets say i performed a Working and requested a salad spinner, then i told you days later that i had one...then a month goes by and my mother comes over out of nowhere and drops a "salad Spinner" on my counter because she has 2...would what i told you a month ago still be considered a lie? Or does magical prowess negate it?


You Wrote:What you are describing is prayer. Does praying reduce our magical abilities? I guess it depends what you mean by magical abilities. If you are talking about some sort direct supernatural means, I would probably just laugh at you..so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are talking about our ability to effect the objective universe by way of the subjective. The answer to that hinges on whether you believe praying works. Do you?

Great reply! But we can also argue the tiny difference between "Prayer" and "Spell"... are those two really that seperate from one another? Or are they so close it's spooky?


Edited by Valor (07/13/10 10:59 PM)
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#40220 - 07/13/10 10:56 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Again..since time only works in one direction..of course not. That's like telling someone you aren't a virgin in the hope of one day getting laid.
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#40221 - 07/13/10 11:02 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Again..since time only works in one direction..of course not. That's like telling someone you aren't a virgin in the hope of one day getting laid.


lmao...very good.

Ok, now how do you suppose it effects our subjective universe when we don't perform the work necessary that aids in aquiring this item...(blow it off) Does our Will degenerate?
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#40222 - 07/13/10 11:04 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Seems like a bit of a non sequiter. How is one connected to the other?
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#40224 - 07/13/10 11:52 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



There is Lesser Magic. Two useful definitions below:

‘Non-ritual or manipulative magic, sometimes called "LESSER MAGIC", consists of the wile and guile obtained through various devices and contrived situations, which when utilized, can create "change, in accordance with one's will". In olden times this would be called "fascination", "glamour", or the "evil eye".’ ASLV. TSB. P.60.

‘Lesser Black Magic (LBM) is the influencing of beings, processes, or objects in the objective universe by the application of obscure physical or behavioural laws.’ MAA. TOS. Appendix 10.

Then there is Greater Magic. Two useful definitions below:

The change in situations or events in accordance with one's will, which would, using normally accepted methods, be unchangeable.’ ASLV. TSB P 110.

“Greater Black Magic (GBM) is the causing of change to occur in the subjective universe in accordance with the will. This change in the subjective universe may cause a similar and proportionate change in the objective universe.” Michael Aquino. The 600C.

To speak of a ritual or a rite is to speak of Greater Magic.

To doubt or to regard the is-to-be being articulated in the ritual as a lie is to undermine the ritual process itself. Sincerity is a key.

To doubt or to regard the is-to-be as a lie, outside and after the ritual is performed, is to undermine the effect that the ritual may/will/can have. Remember you do it and than you forget it and regard it as done.

To alter the OU via the SU happens because the ritual is effective in a genuinely supernormal sense, or because self transformation has taken place as a result of the ritual and therefore action via LM or normally accepted methods is easier.

Regarding it as a Lie waters down the effect either way.

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#40225 - 07/14/10 12:46 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
You forgot to mention that they misspelled curriculum and euphoric, unless europhoric was supposed to be a play on words.

I highly doubt that Valor completed 5 days of college and he wants us to believe that he completed 5 years. If that were true then he should have a degree that enables him to get a job which would allow him to buy a Ferrari and wouldn't have to result to something so ridiculous as performing a ritual to get one.

If you tell somebody something that is not true then it is, by default, a lie. Not a hard concept to grasp.

If all you do is perform rituals to obtain your desires and don't take any real action then your chances of obtaining said desires are about as good as they would be if you prayed.



I never mentioned anything about a Farrari, nor did i say i lied about anything at all... I was asking a question of "what if a lie took place when"... I make it a habit to be honest.
and don't worry about my education.

P.s. It would bother you to know that i'll never have to work a day in my life if i chose not to and still be finacially secure. This is the benifit of having extremely sucessful parents.

listen, dont feel threatened 6satan, i'm only here for questions and knowledge, not to make friends...i have enough. Besides... your not too friendly.

Why is it when someone mispells a word or two here they get pulpit pounded and the thread gets poluted? If you don't like my couple mispelled words...go away. But some here actually take the time to ridicule and feel they need to tutor, why are you couple so irritating? Why all this malice over a mispelled word? Have you even challenged your own vices? Have you looked into the mirror today and found nothing to improve? Or is it that your so perfectly refined? Don't worry about my spelling, worry about challenging your own hinderences. It's pathetic.

Thank you sincerely to those who read it for what it actually is and posted with integrity and educational input. I know this forum is full of potential.
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#40226 - 07/14/10 01:38 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Valor does have a point..there is more than enough nonsense to shred without having to resort to pointing out his lazy posting habits. Like the fact there is no substance behind any of this, and it is pure quasi-intellectual fluff, as an example. Or the fact that not a hint of logic or reasoning is displayed in either the premise or the conclusion, which is basically a series of un related non sequiters and bald assertions.


"Lying isn't lying if one day the thing you are talking about may happen but it weakens your will to do it for some reason not addressed"

Worst...thread....ever.
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#40227 - 07/14/10 01:51 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
First off I mentioned the misspellings in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way and it was directed more at Dimitri than you. Then again, you did ask to have your spelling errors pointed out. And as someone who has supposedly finished five years of college you should be able spell simple words like curriculum and euphoric. The fact that you can't leads me to believe that you haven't finished five years of college like you say you did. It is not that I am worried about your education, I just call bullshit whenever and wherever I see it.

After re-reading the thread I see that you didn't mention the Ferrari and that it was Diavolo who placed it in a quote of yours. Mea culpa.

Am I bothered by the fact that you think leaching off your successful parents is a viable option? Absolutely not, I am not them. Not that I think your "extremely successful parents" exist anymore than your bachelor's degree. But if it is true then it is pathetic that you would pepper that into your argument as if it makes it anymore valid. Or were you simply trying to brag?

I certainly don't feel threatened by you and don't know why you would think that I am. It never crossed my mind that you might be here to make friends and nor do I care your reasons for being here. What I do care about is maintaining some sort of standard of post quality on this forum. If that means that I come across as "unfriendly" to some then so be it.

What is it with people who can't learn how to properly use spelling, grammar and punctuation or at least use a program that will help supplement any lacking of knowledge in the aforementioned areas? What is it with people who come here and think that anyone should give a shit what their questions are especially if those questions are asinine?

If you don't like the way things are done around here then you can go away. I've been posting here regularly for close to two years now and I don't see myself departing anytime soon. I like it here, there are some very cool and intelligent people amongst the ranks. And it because I like it that I get so annoyed when people like you come on here, spouting your incoherent garbage and then bitch and moan when someone calls you on it. And as long as you continue to post garbage I am going to continue to ridicule you for it until you improve, get banned or leave on your own. Any one of those outcomes is fine with me.

/Rant

P.S. your question "Have you even challenged your own vices?" makes no sense. ;\)
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#40231 - 07/14/10 06:46 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Valor Offline
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Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Valor does have a point..there is more than enough nonsense to shred without having to resort to pointing out his lazy posting habits. Like the fact there is no substance behind any of this, and it is pure quasi-intellectual fluff, as an example. Or the fact that not a hint of logic or reasoning is displayed in either the premise or the conclusion, which is basically a series of un related non sequiters and bald assertions.


"Lying isn't lying if one day the thing you are talking about may happen but it weakens your will to do it for some reason not addressed"


Thank you..my thoughts exactly.
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#40232 - 07/14/10 06:52 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

P.S. your question "Have you even challenged your own vices?" makes no sense. ;\)


Maybe you need a friend...but i assure you son, its not me. I'm 33 and own a small construction firm, me and 3 guys...so i do work my ass off and balanced school and family. I never asked by parents for a dime, but the option is there if all else fails.

So, i didn't finish reading your rant about my spelling and education, but understand i know you want the attention...its common for the beginner. But it's more attuned to the immature Practice of LHP philosophy and practice.


My question is simple...have you met your own vices head on without having to side-track to my spelling...lol.. listen, i've been treading this Path for 16 years and found that refinement of the Self is our greatest tool in Initiation. So my question makes sense..unless of course i spent it wrong?

LMAO...this may have been the worst thread ever..but i learned enough and it was eternally worth it. We can't put a price on Initiation and when we grow...we "Become"


Edited by Valor (07/14/10 07:00 AM)
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#40233 - 07/14/10 08:31 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
GillesdeRais Offline
member


Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 141
Oh, dude...Now you've gone and done it. If you listen carefully to the wind, the slavering hordes are getting ready to descend on you. And they have sharp, pointy teeth, and smell like BO and cigarettes. No, wait...That's Juggaloes. \:\)
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#40240 - 07/14/10 12:49 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Do you realize that by agreeing with Dan you are admitting that the question you posed makes no sense? Or maybe you are agreeing with him because you think he was defending you.

Don't call me son, I am not your son. If I was you probably would have driven me to the point of patricide by now.

Do you even know what a vice is? You obviously do not because if you did you would see that such a question makes no sense.

Since we are obviously coming from different levels of intellect I am done with you. Any further engagement would be like me boxing with a quadriplegic in a coma.
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#40243 - 07/14/10 12:59 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

Since we are obviously coming from different levels of intellect I am done with you. Any further engagement would be like me boxing with a quadriplegic in a coma.



yeah' i know..lol..let me guess, "cuase you've done it before and you'll do it again".

I'm mildly entertained...
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#40264 - 07/14/10 08:47 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Valor]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Valor
P.s. It would bother you to know that i'll never have to work a day in my life if i chose not to and still be finacially secure. This is the benifit of having extremely sucessful parents.


If he isn't lying, this would explain how he managed to obtain his alleged Bachelor's Degree. He had his rich daddy pay someone to write his papers for him. That, or they bribed his professors to give him A's on everything.

Seriously, though, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did have a degree. I worked as a peer editor at my university, and you would not believe the illiteracy I was forced to endure. Even other English majors seem not to know what spell check is. Standards keep getting lower.

I love how he continues to persist in spite of everyone here telling him to clean up his language. Apparently, he thinks that the entire 600 club is wrong and he's the only one here who knows what he's talking about.

P.S. Anyone else get a PM from this clown? Mine is below.

 Originally Posted By: Valor
Listen...i don't know what your problem is but it's rather annoying. You can't be serious... The best part is is that you have no idea who i am, but you still take the time to go out of your way to shoot down a topic without one single contribution... you just felt the need to ridicule and used my thread as an excuse to exert your controlling prosona...but understand, i will not suffer your pathetic attempts to undermine my Initiation. You simply don't have what it takes to produce obsticals for me.

But yet you sit there and try...waiting for someone to back you up..understand this: I'm an accomplished magician... so what is it that you think you have that has the potential to bother me on any level? "NOTHING!", lol.. you realy don't have a thing, do you?

Here i am...threading away and you pop up...i actually laughed when i put your attitude side by side to your avatar picture...thank god it's from the neck up...but then again, it's still a mess. Is that realy you or were you just joking?

P.S. Don't pm me back, it will not be opened, i promise. Just go somewhere...maybe we can call green peace and have them throw some water on ya.

lol I know what your problem is...Your the one with the pretty sister...i know, I'm Psychic.
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#40265 - 07/14/10 09:51 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: XiaoGui17]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: 6

Do you realize that by agreeing with Dan you are admitting that the question you posed makes no sense? Or maybe you are agreeing with him because you think he was defending you.

It would seem Valors reading comprehension is right on par with his writing prowess. Talk about the total package.

I would, of course, expect no less from a self described 'setian' ;\)
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#40278 - 07/15/10 09:34 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: XiaoGui17]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
 Originally Posted By: Valor
P.s. It would bother you to know that i'll never have to work a day in my life if i chose not to and still be finacially secure. This is the benifit of having extremely sucessful parents.


If he isn't lying, this would explain how he managed to obtain his alleged Bachelor's Degree. He had his rich daddy pay someone to write his papers for him. That, or they bribed his professors to give him A's on everything.

Seriously, though, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did have a degree. I worked as a peer editor at my university, and you would not believe the illiteracy I was forced to endure. Even other English majors seem not to know what spell check is. Standards keep getting lower.

I love how he continues to persist in spite of everyone here telling him to clean up his language. Apparently, he thinks that the entire 600 club is wrong and he's the only one here who knows what he's talking about.

P.S. Anyone else get a PM from this clown? Mine is below.

 Originally Posted By: Valor
Listen...i don't know what your problem is but it's rather annoying. You can't be serious... The best part is is that you have no idea who i am, but you still take the time to go out of your way to shoot down a topic without one single contribution... you just felt the need to ridicule and used my thread as an excuse to exert your controlling prosona...but understand, i will not suffer your pathetic attempts to undermine my Initiation. You simply don't have what it takes to produce obsticals for me.

But yet you sit there and try...waiting for someone to back you up..understand this: I'm an accomplished magician... so what is it that you think you have that has the potential to bother me on any level? "NOTHING!", lol.. you realy don't have a thing, do you?

Here i am...threading away and you pop up...i actually laughed when i put your attitude side by side to your avatar picture...thank god it's from the neck up...but then again, it's still a mess. Is that realy you or were you just joking?

P.S. Don't pm me back, it will not be opened, i promise. Just go somewhere...maybe we can call green peace and have them throw some water on ya.

lol I know what your problem is...Your the one with the pretty sister...i know, I'm Psychic.


lol, nice try. I wrote the first praragraph, the rest was modified. adding to a quoted reply. I guess this is what you meant by getting me banned? impressive. I'm done here anyway, if this is how it's operated. Good luck to the rest.

Always and everforward,

P.s. I go to school for Art, i'm an artist. Many get thier degree's in art.

so long.


Edited by Valor (07/15/10 09:51 AM)
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#40279 - 07/15/10 09:54 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Valor]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
 Quote:
lol, nice try. I wrote the first praragraph, the rest was modified. adding to a quoted reply. I guess this is what you meant by getting me banned? impressive. I'm done here anyway, if this is how it's operated. Good luck to the rest.

Aaaah, the grand goodbye. Not as emotional as I would have suspected but still..

 Quote:
Always and everforward,

Surprisingly I can only say you can only advance since a lack of lower levels exist.
Whatever..
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#40280 - 07/15/10 10:14 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Dimitri]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Quote:
lol, nice try. I wrote the first praragraph, the rest was modified. adding to a quoted reply. I guess this is what you meant by getting me banned? impressive. I'm done here anyway, if this is how it's operated. Good luck to the rest.

Aaaah, the grand goodbye. Not as emotional as I would have suspected but still..

 Quote:
Always and everforward,

Surprisingly I can only say you can only advance since a lack of lower levels exist.
Whatever..


Hmmm, i'll admit...maybe i should read them prior to sending, or take the time to use spell check. But i just write off the top and send it along. I'm sure i could refine them more to the licking of the forum, but i don't have a whole ton of time...so i wing'it. Perhaps i'll take the time in the future to please, rather than be so hasty. You all have valid concerns. Spell check should have been used.
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#40281 - 07/15/10 10:20 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Valor]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
I'm having a difficult time deciphering exactly what your question is, but I'll give it a shot.

 Originally Posted By: Valor

My questions were: how does it Effect our Objective universe If we don't apply means other than Ritual?


If you send out your request via ritual, and the universe then delivers said request, then what makes you think any other type of work would be required? In saying that making these requests 'waters down' your power as a magician are you also suggesting that the universe is finite?


 Originally Posted By: Valor
Can lying effect it also... only two questions. believe me,i'm certain of it. (p.s. i wrote it)

I think lying can effect the objective universe, sure. Subjective experience appears to exist within an objective universe, therefore, any model of an objective universe must include all subjective universes (ie your and my individual experience). Since the subjective universe (where your individual lie originates) exists within the objective universe then it's only logical to assume that one can effect the other in some way.

Of course, I can't really prove that you aren't a figment of my imagination, so please feel free to take anything I might say with a grain of salt.

Some links for your edification, free of charge:

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#40283 - 07/15/10 10:32 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Fnord]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
If you send out your request via ritual, and the universe then delivers said request, then what makes you think any other type of work would be required? In saying that making these requests 'waters down' your power as a magician are you also suggesting that the universe is finite?


Great reply Fnord.

From my understanding which comes from Don Webb's Work: We must work toward our objective goals in the subjective universe. What I'm saying is this, if I were to perform a ritual for "spelling", i can't presume this is enough...lol..I must also work toward it on my personal time too, to aid the Rituals effectiveness. This may include spending more time in the library or at home using "spell check" (more often) to learn of what word or 3 I might spell habitually wrong.





Edited by Valor (07/15/10 10:51 AM)
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#40320 - 07/15/10 11:58 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Valor]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Valor
lol, nice try. I wrote the first praragraph, the rest was modified. adding to a quoted reply. I guess this is what you meant by getting me banned? impressive. I'm done here anyway, if this is how it's operated. Good luck to the rest.

Always and everforward,

P.s. I go to school for Art, i'm an artist. Many get thier degree's in art.

so long.


I altered absolutely nothing but coloring the words you misspelled. Also, I never expressed any intent to "get you banned." I merely predicted that, given your actions, this was a likely outcome. I didn't see any need to help the process along; it seemed like it was bound to happen naturally. I'll admit that committing forum-seppuku to save face exceeds my predictions of your performance, but we'll see if you stick by your declaration. ;\)

Art college, eh? Did you really expect us to be impressed?
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#40321 - 07/16/10 12:01 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: XiaoGui17]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17

Art college, eh? Did you really expect us to be impressed?


I went to art school. \:\)
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Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#40322 - 07/16/10 12:06 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Fnord]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17

Art college, eh? Did you really expect us to be impressed?


I went to art school. \:\)


I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with art school, mind you. But every time someone called Valor's academic rigor into question, he kept piping on about: "Bachelor's degree! 5 years of school! College graduate!" The way he harped on about his alleged "credentials," you'd think he was the valedictorian of Harvard. I guess my point was he should have sought to impress us with the content of his posts and instead of appealing to his degree.


Edited by XiaoGui17 (07/16/10 12:07 AM)
Edit Reason: mixed construction
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#40323 - 07/16/10 12:09 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: XiaoGui17]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17


I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with art school, mind you. But every time someone called Valor's academic rigor into question, he kept piping on about: "Bachelor's degree! 5 years of school! College graduate!" The way he harped on about his alleged "credentials," you'd think he was the valedictorian of Harvard. I guess my point was he should have sought to impress us with the content of his posts and not appeals his degree.


I know, I was just f*cking with you.
My own credentials would stand up to scrutiny which is why I don't feel the need to go on about them \:\)
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#40333 - 07/16/10 10:19 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: XiaoGui17]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17

Art college, eh? Did you really expect us to be impressed?


I went to art school. \:\)


I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with art school, mind you. But every time someone called Valor's academic rigor into question, he kept piping on about: "Bachelor's degree! 5 years of school! College graduate!" The way he harped on about his alleged "credentials," you'd think he was the valedictorian of Harvard. I guess my point was he should have sought to impress us with the content of his posts and instead of appealing to his degree.


Let me be clear: My only reply was that I finished 5 years of school without your tutoring. And from there you used my education as a target. I never used the word graduate or others akin to boasting. Take the time to learn the facts via reading?

Please understand this is growing so tiring and old. I would greatly appreciate you staying on top Xiaogui? I don't see you posting anywhere else but here...to undermine a thread, to create havoc and harbor a nasty attitude.

You can learn to adopt certain problem solving skills and use effective communication, this inturn wiil aid you to find more healthy and effective outlets for your anger and for the future try to meet or exceed your expectations...become more than what you seem by worshiping your potential. When your only motivation to log on is the goal to get me Banned, there is something wrong. It is a terrible way to live, is it not?

Become more than that person Xiogui. It's not very becoming.


Edited by Valor (07/16/10 10:32 AM)
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#40334 - 07/16/10 10:30 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Fnord]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17

Art college, eh? Did you really expect us to be impressed?


I went to art school. \:\)


Congratulations fnord. Have you found a way to use your talents as an occupation. I had a tough time with this only because there are so many artists looking for work.

I guess we are being looked down on because we went to art school. I chose art because it was important for me to express aesthetics. However...it's odd that we are being shot down in a Satanic community for "Aesthetics". Truly sad indeed.

Satanic Sin #9, Lack of aesthetics?



Edited by Valor (07/16/10 10:31 AM)
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#40336 - 07/16/10 11:15 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Valor]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Valor

Congratulations fnord. Have you found a way to use your talents as an occupation. I had a tough time with this only because there are so many artists looking for work.

I guess we are being looked down on because we went to art school.


I'm not going to go down that road with you, sir.

No one here was looking down on anyone because they went to art school. XiaoGui17 posted an off the cuff remark that I purposely twisted around for the very reason that I knew she didn't mean it the way it came across.

As for your other question, no, I never have made a living with my art. When I finished school I was working construction and found that construction pay circa 1990 was about double of entry level artist pay and by that time I was married with a baby on the way.

Knowing of my art background, my employer asked me if I had any drafting experience and I told him that I'd taken a few courses and the rest I'd figure out. I spent my days working 1/2 construction and 1/2 drawing plans for the next week of work. I quickly became aware of computers/Cad and convinced my boss that we needed a CAD system. I worked that into a job and got him to pay for CAD training for me. I spent a few years figuring out CAD and eventually landed on an idea that I needed to be able to extract data from drawings because we stored a ton of info in the drawings themselves. I built a few database applications to do so and that got me some attention in the architectural community of the day. I eventually moved on from that position and went to work for a global furniture company that specialized in office cubes and walls. I built several systems that counted inventories, compared inventories, allowed ordering product from drawings etc which eventually led me to my current position in Cad systems design/database in a huge computer company you've heard of.

During all of that time I've missed art though. I've gotten fairly proficient in photoshop and illustrator and have played around a bunch with flash. Part of my job now involves sharing data on the intranet so I've also become quite proficient in web design (back to the art).

SO, my ultimate goal is to get a small web design company up and running in tandem with my career (which I love). I'm about 70% on that right now and am working toward being live by the end of the calendar year.

Damn, everything you never wanted to know about Fnord. Sorry about that, guess I was in a sharing mood.
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#40337 - 07/16/10 11:28 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Fnord]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
 Originally Posted By: Valor

Congratulations fnord. Have you found a way to use your talents as an occupation. I had a tough time with this only because there are so many artists looking for work.

I guess we are being looked down on because we went to art school.


I'm not going to go down that road with you, sir.

No one here was looking down on anyone because they went to art school. XiaoGui17 posted an off the cuff remark that I purposely twisted around for the very reason that I knew she didn't mean it the way it came across.

As for your other question, no, I never have made a living with my art. When I finished school I was working construction and found that construction pay circa 1990 was about double of entry level artist pay and by that time I was married with a baby on the way.

Knowing of my art background, my employer asked me if I had any drafting experience and I told him that I'd taken a few courses and the rest I'd figure out. I spent my days working 1/2 construction and 1/2 drawing plans for the next week of work. I quickly became aware of computers/Cad and convinced my boss that we needed a CAD system. I worked that into a job and got him to pay for CAD training for me. I spent a few years figuring out CAD and eventually landed on an idea that I needed to be able to extract data from drawings because we stored a ton of info in the drawings themselves. I built a few database applications to do so and that got me some attention in the architectural community of the day. I eventually moved on from that position and went to work for a global furniture company that specialized in office cubes and walls. I built several systems that counted inventories, compared inventories, allowed ordering product from drawings etc which eventually led me to my current position in Cad systems design/database in a huge computer company you've heard of.

During all of that time I've missed art though. I've gotten fairly proficient in photoshop and illustrator and have played around a bunch with flash. Part of my job now involves sharing data on the intranet so I've also become quite proficient in web design (back to the art).

SO, my ultimate goal is to get a small web design company up and running in tandem with my career (which I love). I'm about 70% on that right now and am working toward being live by the end of the calendar year.

Damn, everything you never wanted to know about Fnord. Sorry about that, guess I was in a sharing mood.


No need to apologize for an inspiring story. Sincerely, congratulations. It looks like afterall you have turned your art into a system that works for you. LBM at it's finest.
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#40385 - 07/17/10 09:48 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Valor]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
Curses! I saw that Valor had recently posted in this thread and came happily skipping back, anticipating some fresh, raw, bloody meat. Instead I found myself wondering where Valor had posted and having to scroll back up and double-check. The damn bastard actually made a post that was so coherent I thought it was someone else. I guess he's finally learned to adapt to the forums. My prediction was wrong; I guess I'll be seeing him around a little longer.

There is only one grammar error in his post (the use of "it's" with an apostrophe as a possessive). And I can't really fault him for that because 1) It's a common error that even the educated make, 2) He's certainly not the only one to make it in these forums, and 3) I can still understand what he's saying in spite of it; it doesn't make his post difficult to read. I could drag him across the coals for posting an unnecessarily long quote above what is essentially a "one-liner," but even I'm not that much of a board nazi. And no, this isn't just paralipsis for its own sake. I just want to clarify, in case someone else points this out, that I am capable of discerning even the most discreet of booboos. ;\) (Note that I myself almost used "discrete," but aware of how these two terms are discrete, and my own forgetfulness, I Googled it.)

P.S. Web design? (o_o) Keep me posted on the development of your company, Fnord. I may hire you once I've completed the P.A. process. (Admittedly, this will take a while, but I imagine you've got a lot of your own getting ready to do.)
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#40467 - 07/19/10 01:01 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying [Re: Valor]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
No one looked down on you for going to art school. Much to the dismay of a leftbrainer like myself, there are more than enough artists around here to go around, and quite a few of them are respected here. You got your ass lit up because - as many have already tried to explain - you are your words here. You can go on all day and night about how much education you have but if you can't compose a sentence that reflects your English-as-a-first-language, no one is going to give a shit.

You opened the door for criticism of your education when you brought it up. You composed a halfassed post that was a grammatical fuckin' nightmare and made no sense at all and when you were called on it (and you claim you lurked so you should have seen THAT comin') you tried to act like just because you have some alleged education that we should let you slide. Sorry. That doesn't happen here. The claim that you are educated will only incite the wolves when you post like a moron.

Whether you were drunk or high, or you have an illiterate other personality, I can see that you are attempting to redeem yourself. So a little further advice: don't beat this dead horse. Stop replying to this thread so that it all blows over and you don't feel like you have to keep defending that which has no business being defended. Continue to make posts elsewhere that don't look like a five year old shit himself and smeared your keyboard with it and over time you wont be thought of as that newest idiot on the forum that we make backroom bets on.

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#50302 - 03/02/11 12:53 AM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Dimitri]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
The objective effect of lying is to recognise that others are dishonourable and are telling lies. To know this you will tell the truth that is your truth being the only truth that will work for the objective, this is to be truthful to ones self and recognise what others want to hear for your objective, this is not a lie because the only lie one can tell is to himself, being deceitful to ourselves as in portraying a badly put together truth which has nothing to do with a happening in real life we only risk ourselves being shamed and held in contempt. Rather by presenting a truth of real life events as they can be perceived in a way favourable to you, this is not lying but an objectively presented truth to others.

People often submit to answering direct yes and no answers this is a fallacy and an imposed judgement may be made, you have the right to answer however you like as truth is not limited to how others command you to verbalise. A yes or no has to come at the end of a sentence or you may be cut off and denied your presentation of the truth.

Remember that. If somebody gets aggressive and asks for a direct yes or no answer they have loaded a response for both that will go against your representation of the truth.

Never back down from somebody trying to force you to answer their way. Tell the truth as you see fit. If you lie it will only be to yourself. Rather look at the objective events and present them in the correct light.
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#50768 - 03/10/11 05:29 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: Hegesias]
AdonKilravok Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/04/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Kingdom of Wessex
Due to the uncertainty wether or not the ritual worked or not, saying that you got your wish granted might turn out a lie, but it might turn out the truth. However, if the ritual is all you ever done to achieve your goal, then it most likely will turn out a lie. The ritual only focusses and defines your will. But it is your actions which give your will its power to affect the world. To not act upon a ritual, promiss or intent is indeed watering down one's will and might.
I personally define lieing as speaking against better knowing, meaning, if you know its one way and you state its the other way, its lying. If you state its one way because you truely believe its that way, then its not lying even if its false. If you state its one way even though you don't really believe it is then its not lieing, its dishonesty, even if it really is that way.
Lying and dishonnesty are both, in my opinion, signs of low character. They are always insulting, even polite or 'white' lies, and they prove nothing other thasn that one doesn't trust the opposite nor is oneself trustworthy.

Just the twopens of a noob who never seen an accademic faculty from the inside. Please forgive if i don't make sense or have too many typos.
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For Honour, Loyalty, Integrity ... and other Fairy Tales of times long past

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#50772 - 03/10/11 09:10 PM Re: Objective Effects of Lying. [Re: AdonKilravok]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Whenever the individual speaks, he speaks from his own nature. Is the individual fearfully moral or is he sinister? Bear in mind that telling the truth so completely may destroy a man so completely. Lies are reserved for those minds deserving of a lesser poison. Only a fool lies to himself or his woman.
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