This is the reason why I didn't read this post: lack of proper spelling and horrific grammar. As a matter of fact, wordrape of this magnitude should constitute a Satanic Felony.

Please use spell-check in the future. It's not difficult.

You can claim to others you achieved the goal or received the goods (or say it is on hold), but I am quite sure there are enough a-holes who would demand proof. And if you can't come-up with it you surely are doomed to loose your face and great deals of credibility.

This is the issue of how lying can effect/affect our Objective universe. Now... during this ritual you ask to be granted a particular object of desire/s. Once this Rite is complete you then tell a friend that you possess this object, but stress that it's sorta "on hold", if you will... is this still lying? Or is it only a lie if it doesn't come true? If this object never reveals itself? How does this concern ethics in accordance with "the good"?

Your stupidity is really mindblowing...
You practice lower magic by selfish needs, fine with that. But you also claimed to have achieved certain results. If you claimed to have achieved a goal, or claimed to have gotten some goods then I can ask you to proove these claims. If you cannot do so then you are merely self-delusioned.

As based on the original writing:

I'm having a tough time with your "proof" opinion here. See, i pratice LBM for reasons i'm comfortable with and i need not apply proof of this work to anyone. I'm doing this selfishly, and rightly so, for my own reasons. do you understand what i'm saying? A selfish application has no need to be proved.

You can keep your ad hominem attacks, very becoming...i'll even let you talk about my mother when your ready to grow up to a level where we can keep the dialog mature? lol...How mindblowing was it?

Otherwise i'll wait for a more refined responce from someone other than you. Until then consider yourself invisible?

Always and ever forward, Valor.

If achieving a certain ends for your own purposes is all you really wanted, why come tell us about it? I mean, if the result it got for you was a reward enough in and of itself, why share the news with us? Why not just revel in the fruits of your efforts alone? The only reason you'd feel the need to come share this with us is to have us stroke your ego, and I doubt you're going to get that with this horrific post.

An ad hominem, Valor, is when someone makes an insult in lieu of addressing your argument, and claims the insult in and of itself somehow defeated your argument. Dimitri made an insult (and a quite accurate one, mind you) in addition to addressing your argument, not instead of addressing your argument. I can't stand it when people fling around the names of fallacies without any understanding of how to properly apply them. You fail at logic and spelling. I anticipate this thread being locked and you being ousted in the near future. See? I'm psychic!

are these the best replies i'm going to hear? Am i not meeting the clubs bar? and if not, will you explain how?

I do a ritual and wish for a Ferrari
After the ritual I go to my friend and tell him I HAVE a Ferrari

The question is: is this a lie or is it not because, if I do a ritual as such, I surely will get my Ferrari.

No, you aren't meeting the bar. We tried to explain to you the hows and the whys of it but you are too busy trying in vain to fluff yourself. Your spelling sucks ass, your grammar sucks ass, and you fail at big words and Latin. This is how you are not making the grade.

You are your words here. If your use of the English language is subpar, then by default YOU are subpar. If you can't master your own language then it doesn't matter what impressive thoughts you MIGHT have, no one is going to pay attention to that. We will see your lack of education first and that will be the only thing we see. Stupid people can't possibly have thoughts worth reading.

Stop trying to argue about it and just do better.

please point where my spelling is in error? Otherwise stay on topic...i dont need your corriculum. Some how i feel your attracted to malice instead of replying to an honest question. If i'm under the "Bar" then why are you gravitatings toward me so much? Aren't you preoccupied with more intellectual threads? but you keep pooping up here? hmmm

This is the issue of how lying can effect/affect our Objective universe. Now... during this ritual you ask to be granted a particular object of desire/s. Once this Rite is complete you then tell a friend that you possess this object, but stress that it's sorta "on hold", if you will... is this still lying? Or is it only a lie if it doesn't come true? If this object never reveals itself?

How does this concern ethics in accordance with "the good"?

Now, what’s even more nip'tinglin to bite on is how this can effect our Will in the Objective universe. Let me be clear and say for instance I...performed a Rite to obtain a mundane item...but I never use subjective universe to obtain it, meaning I didn't do the actual work necessary to accompany the change needed, on my physical, mental and emotional end.

How/does this effect our Objective universe in accordance to our Will? Does it "thin out" it's effects ...watering down our abilities as magicians?

I am beginning to think it does... if I were to perform Rites but never performed the actions necessary to obtain it here, do I weaken my Will?

And i mind why? Is it because you said something? Because for some odd reason it's almost as if i couldn't care less for your tutoring skills at the moment... really, i'm sorry, but i just don't have it in me tonight. (not to break it to like this... butI finished 5 years of college without ya

Congratulations on earning your associates degree.

Again..since time only works in one direction..of course not. That's like telling someone you aren't a virgin in the hope of one day getting laid.

You forgot to mention that they misspelled curriculum and euphoric, unless europhoric was supposed to be a play on words.

I highly doubt that Valor completed 5 days of college and he wants us to believe that he completed 5 years. If that were true then he should have a degree that enables him to get a job which would allow him to buy a Ferrari and wouldn't have to result to something so ridiculous as performing a ritual to get one.

If you tell somebody something that is not true then it is, by default, a lie. Not a hard concept to grasp.

If all you do is perform rituals to obtain your desires and don't take any real action then your chances of obtaining said desires are about as good as they would be if you prayed.

Valor does have a point..there is more than enough nonsense to shred without having to resort to pointing out his lazy posting habits. Like the fact there is no substance behind any of this, and it is pure quasi-intellectual fluff, as an example. Or the fact that not a hint of logic or reasoning is displayed in either the premise or the conclusion, which is basically a series of un related non sequiters and bald assertions.


"Lying isn't lying if one day the thing you are talking about may happen but it weakens your will to do it for some reason not addressed"

P.S. your question "Have you even challenged your own vices?" makes no sense.

Since we are obviously coming from different levels of intellect I am done with you. Any further engagement would be like me boxing with a quadriplegic in a coma.

Listen...i don't know what your problem is but it's rather annoying. You can't be serious... The best part is is that you have no idea who i am, but you still take the time to go out of your way to shoot down a topic without one single contribution... you just felt the need to ridicule and used my thread as an excuse to exert your controlling prosona...but understand, i will not suffer your pathetic attempts to undermine my Initiation. You simply don't have what it takes to produce obsticals for me.

But yet you sit there and try...waiting for someone to back you up..understand this: I'm an accomplished magician... so what is it that you think you have that has the potential to bother me on any level? "NOTHING!", lol.. you realy don't have a thing, do you?

Here i am...threading away and you pop up...i actually laughed when i put your attitude side by side to your avatar picture...thank god it's from the neck up...but then again, it's still a mess. Is that realy you or were you just joking?

P.S. Don't pm me back, it will not be opened, i promise. Just go somewhere...maybe we can call green peace and have them throw some water on ya.

lol I know what your problem is...Your the one with the pretty sister...i know, I'm Psychic.

Do you realize that by agreeing with Dan you are admitting that the question you posed makes no sense? Or maybe you are agreeing with him because you think he was defending you.

If he isn't lying, this would explain how he managed to obtain his alleged Bachelor's Degree. He had his rich daddy pay someone to write his papers for him. That, or they bribed his professors to give him A's on everything.

Seriously, though, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did have a degree. I worked as a peer editor at my university, and you would not believe the illiteracy I was forced to endure. Even other English majors seem not to know what spell check is. Standards keep getting lower.

I love how he continues to persist in spite of everyone here telling him to clean up his language. Apparently, he thinks that the entire 600 club is wrong and he's the only one here who knows what he's talking about.

P.S. Anyone else get a PM from this clown? Mine is below.

lol, nice try. I wrote the first praragraph, the rest was modified. adding to a quoted reply. I guess this is what you meant by getting me banned? impressive. I'm done here anyway, if this is how it's operated. Good luck to the rest.

Always and everforward,

Aaaah, the grand goodbye. Not as emotional as I would have suspected but still..


Surprisingly I can only say you can only advance since a lack of lower levels exist.
Whatever..

My questions were: how does it Effect our Objective universe If we don't apply means other than Ritual?

Can lying effect it also... only two questions. believe me,i'm certain of it. (p.s. i wrote it)

If you send out your request via ritual, and the universe then delivers said request, then what makes you think any other type of work would be required? In saying that making these requests 'waters down' your power as a magician are you also suggesting that the universe is finite?

lol, nice try. I wrote the first praragraph, the rest was modified. adding to a quoted reply. I guess this is what you meant by getting me banned? impressive. I'm done here anyway, if this is how it's operated. Good luck to the rest.

Always and everforward,

P.s. I go to school for Art, i'm an artist. Many get thier degree's in art.

so long.

Art college, eh? Did you really expect us to be impressed?

I went to art school.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with art school, mind you. But every time someone called Valor's academic rigor into question, he kept piping on about: "Bachelor's degree! 5 years of school! College graduate!" The way he harped on about his alleged "credentials," you'd think he was the valedictorian of Harvard. I guess my point was he should have sought to impress us with the content of his posts and not appeals his degree.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with art school, mind you. But every time someone called Valor's academic rigor into question, he kept piping on about: "Bachelor's degree! 5 years of school! College graduate!" The way he harped on about his alleged "credentials," you'd think he was the valedictorian of Harvard. I guess my point was he should have sought to impress us with the content of his posts and instead of appealing to his degree.

I went to art school.

Congratulations fnord. Have you found a way to use your talents as an occupation. I had a tough time with this only because there are so many artists looking for work.

I guess we are being looked down on because we went to art school.

I'm not going to go down that road with you, sir.

No one here was looking down on anyone because they went to art school. XiaoGui17 posted an off the cuff remark that I purposely twisted around for the very reason that I knew she didn't mean it the way it came across.

As for your other question, no, I never have made a living with my art. When I finished school I was working construction and found that construction pay circa 1990 was about double of entry level artist pay and by that time I was married with a baby on the way.

Knowing of my art background, my employer asked me if I had any drafting experience and I told him that I'd taken a few courses and the rest I'd figure out. I spent my days working 1/2 construction and 1/2 drawing plans for the next week of work. I quickly became aware of computers/Cad and convinced my boss that we needed a CAD system. I worked that into a job and got him to pay for CAD training for me. I spent a few years figuring out CAD and eventually landed on an idea that I needed to be able to extract data from drawings because we stored a ton of info in the drawings themselves. I built a few database applications to do so and that got me some attention in the architectural community of the day. I eventually moved on from that position and went to work for a global furniture company that specialized in office cubes and walls. I built several systems that counted inventories, compared inventories, allowed ordering product from drawings etc which eventually led me to my current position in Cad systems design/database in a huge computer company you've heard of.

During all of that time I've missed art though. I've gotten fairly proficient in photoshop and illustrator and have played around a bunch with flash. Part of my job now involves sharing data on the intranet so I've also become quite proficient in web design (back to the art).

SO, my ultimate goal is to get a small web design company up and running in tandem with my career (which I love). I'm about 70% on that right now and am working toward being live by the end of the calendar year.

Damn, everything you never wanted to know about Fnord. Sorry about that, guess I was in a sharing mood.