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#40370 - 07/16/10 09:59 PM Re: Black People in America [Re: Room 101]
TV is God Moderator Offline
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I've read a couple books on neurology. Though nothing I've read was addressing this issue directly it seems to be the most popular opinion that DNA has little to no affect on how the brain is formed. Likely it is a product completely of environment. I've seen plenty of whites living in the black ghettos and acting no different from the blacks there. I've seen kids of all races adopted by the whitest of white sheltered idiotic upper middle class Americans that turn out just the same as those raising them.

The ghetto environment rigs the odds for producing drug addicts, rapists, and the like. However I feel this is no excuse. No matter what the circumstances someone lives in, short of a direct threat on their lives or the lives of loved ones, you are held accountable for your own actions.

Where I grew up was a trailer park full of white trash meth addicts. Why don't you hear the big issue over these people? Because they're isolated. They're not in large groups and they're not shooting each other in city streets. But shoved in the same circumstances as those in the ghetto they would act the same way.

A big part of the problem is cultural pride. The idea that you inherent some intangible property from the history of your ancestors. Pride and prejudice are different inflections of the same concept. To be proud of anything is by definition to be prejudiced to others. To me pride is something you can have for something you accomplished. Something YOU did. You cannot reserve the right to be proud of being your race because it's not something you accomplished or even chose for yourself.

I'm all for preserving history but I'm opposed to anyone thinking they're special from something left entirely to chance. This is why I think most that think they're fighting for racial equality by glamorizing race and culture are a part of the problem. Only when we destroy the idea of racial or cultural pride can we have equality. I don't see this in humans any time soon.

As a side note I'm guessing by the lack of anger in this thread there's no brothers on the forum?


Edited by TV is God (07/16/10 10:02 PM)

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#40392 - 07/17/10 12:32 PM Re: Black People in America [Re: The Zebu]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
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 Quote:
One thing I must vehemently disagree with, is this sort of xenophobia wherein people make the mistake of thinking that there exists some sort of pure, unchanging "racial culture" inherent to their society that must be preserved at all costs.

To say there is a central pure culture per race is indeed a fallacy. It is a claim I shall not make, what I will state is the difference of level in thinking and behavior per culture. Openly admitted I see persons from the middle-east as humans whose thinking is at the same level as ours from the middle-ages, those of Africans as far as the little more advanced prehistoric man,..
Once again, only my view and what I can deduce from experience and historical comperence.

 Quote:
Being Anti-Multiculturalism is like being Anti-Gravity. Multiculturalism is the natural way of the world, for both good and ill. I'm not saying it's beneficial or detrimental; just that there's no stopping it. A millennium ago the world map looked completely different, many of our ancestors lived in some other region, and nobody cared about national unity because they were too busy fighting with different villages and city-states.

I wouldn't exactly make the comperence with "like being anti-gravity". In modern times humans have the ability to travel and explore new cultures. It's not bad to explore and learn, but I don't take it to mimic the culture in the foreigners land of origin and start making attempts of implementing traditions here. To have respect for the culture: yes, to explore it: yes, to spread the foreign culture in one owns land: NO!
The reason here would be that any person is considered an individual. Every individual has his own thoughts/ideas and liking. If a person wants to belong to the foreign culture he found and learned about; may he/she get to the land of origin and live it there. Bringing it towards his own country and trying to convince people from his country is (IMO) nothing more then social vampirism as equally bad as the priest preaching religion.

Taking on the other hand the knowledge of the foreign culture to enrich the lack of knowledge your culture has is good. Taking over the entire culture without modifications and/or thinking is bad. Sadly enough the "bad-part" is often chosen, and the people who do so I see as traitors and deserve to be viewed as brainless scum whatever reason/defense they might offer.

 Quote:
All I can say is, get over it. In seven hundred years nobody is going to care about the supposed negative impact of Islamic or African-American cultural influence. By then we'll all be mulatto, Chinese-speaking Muslims, and our main concern will be whether or not we can tolerate those poor, dirty Mexamericans from sneaking past our borders, taking our jobs, and spreading that foul, oppressive religion of Wiccan Scientology that threatens to overtake the world.

While meant as a joke, people like me serve the purpose of evading a brainless mixed culture. While the mixing of cultures can become a fact, I at least will have made an attempt of not letting it happen and thus contributing towards an intelligent mixed culture. The necessary evil, so to speak.

On the matter of cultural pride:
Within my view, a person must have a certain degree of cultural pride. A reason herefor would be psycholochical. If a person (take a white person being raised in a black culture or the other way round) is raised within a culture where racial differences are apparant, this one racial difference will cause problems on longer terms. If the person is a teenager he/she will start asking questions to himself. Questions which can result in an intern struggle and degradation of the self. This racial argument will also be used by the other culture who is the most dominant. No matter how long the person with a "foreign" culture resides within the most dominant culture, a certain border will remain and cause a social burden.

Therfor I see taking pride in ones own culture as a neccesity to maintain a healthy social and psychological view.


Edited by Dimitri (07/17/10 12:43 PM)
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#40401 - 07/17/10 05:44 PM Re: Black People in America [Re: Dimitri]
TV is God Moderator Offline
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[quote=Dimitri]
 Quote:


On the matter of cultural pride:
Within my view, a person must have a certain degree of cultural pride. A reason herefor would be psycholochical. If a person (take a white person being raised in a black culture or the other way round) is raised within a culture where racial differences are apparant, this one racial difference will cause problems on longer terms. If the person is a teenager he/she will start asking questions to himself. Questions which can result in an intern struggle and degradation of the self. This racial argument will also be used by the other culture who is the most dominant. No matter how long the person with a "foreign" culture resides within the most dominant culture, a certain border will remain and cause a social burden.

Therfore I see taking pride in ones own culture as a neccesity to maintain a healthy social and psychological view.


I don't mean disrespect here but I honestly don't see a shred of logic in that point. It is never the correct thing to accept something illogical and meaningless because it makes you have an easier time.

I cannot believe I've heard such a suggestion from someone rolling in a satanist crowd like this. I mean this is just like when christians reply to logical argument with "Yeah well, I know it doesn't seem to logical but it makes me feel so much better. It gives me so much happiness and hope in life." Completely writing off the fact that what they believe is complete nonsense for the fact that it's a helpful lie. A thin denial. Not touching the fact that racial pride is something without any meaning but going to defend its mental benefits?

And then going to say that embracing a denial on both sides is the healthy thing to do? I mean could you elaborate a little because what you just presented and drew a bold conclusion from was pretty thin.

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#40404 - 07/17/10 09:32 PM Re: Black People in America [Re: TV is God]
Morgan Offline
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I think cultural and racial pride are two different things.

You can take pride in your family history, culture, and historical background. It is what you grew up in, what you learned about your family's background and place in history. It helps to make up you, it gives a small sense of identity in regards to your role in society.

You are not going to find a Mexican speaking or understanding an Italian dialect. Just like you won't find a Southerner who thinks its a good thing the North won the Civil War.

As for Racial pride, in a way its good, and in a way its bad. I think there is too much political correctness running around in regards to not hurting anyone's feelings or singling anyone out regarding racial profiling possible terrorists.

I don't think anyone group is better than any other. I think when you live up to your racial stereotype, you are your stereotype. There are tons of idiot's in every group and they come in every color. With that in mind, I don't care who fucks who and has whatever color baby. I just think it will be a sad ass fucked up world if everyone end up being the same color/race/etc. I like the differences.

M
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#40415 - 07/18/10 02:01 AM Re: Black People in America [Re: Morgan]
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I've been away for a while, very busy, but I think I can bring some interesting points here. I live in, and grew up in schools where the population is mostly Black. The reason most seem to not succeed, as I have noticed, is their perceptions of themselves. A black kid that is told he is smart and can succeed is more likely to succeed. However, integrated in black culture is the idea of "the man keeping you down." So it comes down to psychology. When you truly believe you are being oppressed, and that is how the world is in your mind, even if you start to succeed you will subconsciously find a way to screw it up so you can go "See, I told you I can't succeed." A bit like the same way a woman in an abusive relationship will get out of it just to find another person that will abuse her. That is what she expects from the world and she subconsciously seeks it.

After saying that, I do have to say that I think genetics does play a role, though not as strong of one as the psychological aspect. I am not saying that black people are inferior. From my observations, I have seen a few black people who are extremely smart that have no problem succeeding unless psychological factors hold them back, a portion of average intelligence that could at the very least function as productive members of society, and I must unfortunately admit (this is going to be very unPC) a rather large portion that are dumb as a box of shit.

If you look into the history of slavery, the African slaves were bred like cattle by their masters. They selected qualities that made them good workers in the field: strength, endurance, but not intelligence. In fact, intelligence was often selected against. Considering this situation, I would suspect that the smartest ones were able to hide their intelligence, and that something to what I have observed would be a likely result. Mind you much of this is speculation, but it is the most reasonable explanation I've been able to find to account for my observations.

There is a distinction that I've seen many people make, even black people. That is "There is a difference between a black person and a nigger." In fact, I've heard this more from black people than from white people. Could this actually be an unconscious acknowledgment of the very thing I'm talking about?

Just to make sure I'm clear, I believe their seeming inability to succeed (not that there aren't black people that do succeed), is most strongly due to psychological influences of a culture that has been oppressed for many generations. However, I think an unusually large proportion of African Americans might actually just be too stupid to succeed even without the psychological detriment. Yet this would have more to do with breeding patterns forced upon them in times of slavery and I would suspect would be fairly isolated to the United States.
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#40419 - 07/18/10 04:04 AM Re: Black People in America [Re: TV is God]
Dimitri Offline
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 Quote:
I don't mean disrespect here but I honestly don't see a shred of logic in that point. It is never the correct thing to accept something illogical and meaningless because it makes you have an easier time.

Perhaps you do not see the logic since you were never confronted with such an experience, or have never heard/seen such things happen.

 Quote:
I cannot believe I've heard such a suggestion from someone rolling in a satanist crowd like this. I mean this is just like when christians reply to logical argument with "Yeah well, I know it doesn't seem to logical but it makes me feel so much better. It gives me so much happiness and hope in life." Completely writing off the fact that what they believe is complete nonsense for the fact that it's a helpful lie. A thin denial. Not touching the fact that racial pride is something without any meaning but going to defend its mental benefits?

If you've read a little better then you should have noticed I was talking about CULTURAL pride (ie history and achievements of the culture you originate from), not racial pride.
However, I do belief that racial pride can in some cases be linked towards the cultural pride. I see it as something natural to be proud of how you look like. This can vary from haircut towards skincolor. Know and respect yourself, if you can't live with the fact you are a white boy/girl then you are having a problem. It takes a certain degree of pride and self-respect of race to live with one-self. It may not be a choice you have made, but it is a feature one has to live and cope with his/her entire life. Therfor it is better to take pride in it then to give in towards a greyness in thinking of "egality for all cultures and races". Differences are differences, and they will always remain.

 Quote:
And then going to say that embracing a denial on both sides is the healthy thing to do?

I never said to deny an embracement. I only stated before embracing and exploring the foreign culture a good deal of thinking should be implied in contradiction what happens most of the time (ie embracing the foreign culture in all its facets without modifications and to bring it towards another culture without having taken out the negative sides of immoral/illogical ideas and habits). I also stated that your possible fascination is not shared with other people and it therefor is wise to keep it for oneself and to perhaps "move towards the country of origin from that culture". Trying to spread it here and mentally forcing it down the throat of others who are not interested is seen as social vampirism and at the same level preachers preach their religion to people who are not interested.

 Quote:
I cannot believe I've heard such a suggestion from someone rolling in a satanist crowd like this.

It's not because you never heard it before those people do not exist. While many Satanists claim to stand for confrontation and oposition, many still have an inclination towards political correctness and following the rules of the masses when it comes towards holy subjects of "race". I'm perhaps the first one to speak openly about the subject and to take in this position. And I am convinced there are others around here who share the idea, yet do not jump in for various reasons.


Edited by Dimitri (07/18/10 04:18 AM)
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#40424 - 07/18/10 05:40 AM Re: Black People in America [Re: Dimitri]
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I'm thinking a lot of the issue between our viewpoints is our definition of pride. When I refer to pride I refer to the feeling of satisfaction from accomplishment. When applied to racial pride this is why the only man that could have been proud of being white was Michael Jackson.

Cultural pride? As I see it being part of a culture is no more an accomplishment than being part of a race. You can be proud of something you invent, or modify, or inspire as a piece of that culture but just being proud of choosing a flag to wave? Cultures tend to be what groups of people wouldlike to think they are. To be proud of your culture is most often to pretend you resemble a lifestyle nobody really does.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri

Perhaps you do not see the logic since you were never confronted with such an experience, or have never heard/seen such things happen.


Personally I live in an area where the "culture" is closed minded, christian, conservative(in all the sour meanings of the word), anti-art, anti-intellectual culture of phoney cowboy wannabes. If they're not the clowns in cowboy hats they embrace this equally fake "blue collar guy" persona that's the front of so many drunken wife-beaters.

I have had a difficult time getting by in this social climate. Admittedly nowhere near as difficult as one of another race would but still I am an individual not of the culture of my area's majority. What culture am I from? NONE. Culture is a shallow illusion. A denial. To be proud of your culture is to be proud of your tribe's unrealistic self image.


 Originally Posted By: Dimitri

If you've read a little better then you should have noticed I was talking about CULTURAL pride (ie history and achievements of the culture you originate from), not racial pride.
However, I do belief that racial pride can in some cases be linked towards the cultural pride. I see it as something natural to be proud of how you look like. This can vary from haircut towards skincolor. Know and respect yourself, if you can't live with the fact you are a white boy/girl then you are having a problem. It takes a certain degree of pride and self-respect of race to live with one-self. It may not be a choice you have made, but it is a feature one has to live and cope with his/her entire life.


I knew you were speaking of cultural pride and my criticism stands for that subject equally. Again pride is for what you accomplish. You speak as if to not be proud of looking one way is to not accept or to dread looking that way. That which you are proud of does not mean that which you like, that which you are grateful for, or that which you are fortunate to have. Everyone seems to want to stretch the meaning of the word to fit all these things in. It takes the self-respect, not the pride. The two are two different things entirely.

I like the way I look as determined by my genetics. Does that mean I'm proud of my genetics? No. It means I feel fortunate for them. You speak of being not proud of these things as if it means being unhappy with them.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri

Therfor it is better to take pride in it then to give in towards a greyness in thinking of "egality for all cultures and races". Differences are differences, and they will always remain.


You speak of the two as if they're the only two choices. I'm all for difference and don't pretend all people are equal.
What I said was equality and not egality. By equality I mean not discriminated against or favored based on circumstances beyond your control.
Perhaps I should have been more clear. When I say racial equality I mean not giving a shit what race someone is. When I say cultural equality I mean not giving a shit what culture someone is from. I'm not saying these things are of equal importance, in fact that's the viewpoint I feel adds to the problem. What I mean is that these are of no importance.

I'm all for differences. But only the differences people really have, not the ones they think they have because of their "culture."


 Originally Posted By: Dimitri

It's not because you never heard it before those people do not exist. While many Satanists claim to stand for confrontation and oposition, many still have an inclination towards political correctness and following the rules of the masses when it comes towards holy subjects of "race". I'm perhaps the first one to speak openly about the subject and to take in this position. And I am convinced there are others around here who share the idea, yet do not jump in for various reasons.

What I was referring to was not your main point but your particular reaction of not arguing my statement that racial/cultural pride is a denial but defending it's positive mental aspects. Although reading your last post I'm see how this was just a miscommunication. I do apologize for criticizing you on that, I misunderstood what you were saying.


Edited by TV is God (07/18/10 05:43 AM)

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#40428 - 07/18/10 06:08 AM Re: Black People in America [Re: TV is God]
Dimitri Offline
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 Quote:
Personally I live in an area where the "culture" is closed minded, christian, conservative(in all the sour meanings of the word), anti-art, anti-intellectual culture of phoney cowboy wannabes. If they're not the clowns in cowboy hats they embrace this equally fake "blue collar guy" persona that's the front of so many drunken wife-beaters.

A culture is not only limited towards the area where you live in. You may live in some sort of bible-belt, but your culture in total reaches way further.

 Quote:
You can be proud of something you invent, or modify, or inspire as a piece of that culture but just being proud of choosing a flag to wave? Cultures tend to be what groups of people wouldlike to think they are. To be proud of your culture is most often to pretend you resemble a lifestyle nobody really does.

Being proud of a flag you wave is cultural pride. What do you think patriotism is? If you are proud of your country or state or city has achieved or what it does, then you have cultural pride. Simple isn't it?

 Quote:
When applied to racial pride this is why the only man that could have been proud of being white was Michael Jackson.

Actually, it is said MJ had a disease which caused his skin to have "uncoloured" spots. The only way to disguise it was whitening his skin. A step towards plastic surgery to fit this solution was small and to him a necessity.


 Quote:
Again pride is for what you accomplish. You speak as if to not be proud of looking one way is to not accept or to dread looking that way. That which you are proud of does not mean that which you like, that which you are grateful for, or that which you are fortunate to have.

I see pride as something you can have about almost anything, how irrational and stupid it might be to others. I can see a person being pride of owning stuff. I can see a person being pride of his race, culture and genes.
My main question to you would be WHY would one take not pride in race or culture? From what I can deduce you think it is irrational. I think and say it is not. Why is it? Because I believe so. You can't prove why you can't take pride, and neither I can prove the opposite. It is but a confrontation of views and belief. And I think the discussion on this case has come to an end since it got towards the level of "yay-nay".

 Quote:
Perhaps I should have been more clear. When I say racial equality I mean not giving a shit what race someone is. When I say cultural equality I mean not giving a shit what culture someone is from. I'm not saying these things are of equal importance, in fact that's the viewpoint I feel adds to the problem. What I mean is that these are of no importance.

I'm all for differences. But only the differences people really have, not the ones they think they have because of their "culture."

While agreeing to a certain extend about the "not giving a shit from where..", I do take harm in promoting a foreign culture without making adjustments to leave out all fallacies and immoral/irrational traditions which can harm the original culture or set rules. I shall not bring and spread Western beliefs personally in the middle-east or other countries, and I would like to have the same attitude from the same people from other countries.


Edited by Dimitri (07/18/10 06:09 AM)
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#40429 - 07/18/10 07:09 AM Re: Black People in America [Re: Dimitri]
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Okay I can accept that it comes down to differing opinions of the meaning and affect of what we can and cannot call pride and what that we make of that. I view pride as an objectively defined concept where you see it as more a subjective way of valuing things for yourself.

Perhaps I'm inclined more to define it this way because my pride is in my choice to reject culture and hold no real interest or special respect for my race, my country, or my heritage. But I can see in a wider view point that I'm taking pride in my non-culture and others get the same feeling from taking pride in culture. Though I still stand by my definition of what pride is I can understand this viewpoint.

But I still see culture as a thin concept. Patriotism too for that matter, but as not to stray too far from the point I won't go into that.(But again I am an american and despite the picture media sometimes paints of us I find americans on average to be the least patriotic of any nationality) Pride in culture affords you to take credit for all the good things people other than yourself accomplished but I doubt most who are willing to take some of that pride are willing to take the shame to go with it.

I mean when you're proud of your heritage and you find out your great grandfather was a serial rapist are you still proud of your heritage rapists and all? Are you proud of all your heritage minus one rapist? Am I proud of my german/irish heritage along with or just forgetting the holocaust and holy wars?


Side note: I'm just waiting for someone to come along and say "Would you two just fuck already?"


Edited by TV is God (07/18/10 07:11 AM)

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#40430 - 07/18/10 07:25 AM Re: Black People in America [Re: TV is God]
Dimitri Offline
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 Quote:
I mean when you're proud of your heritage and you find out your great grandfather was a serial rapist are you still proud of your heritage rapists and all? Are you proud of all your heritage minus one rapist? Am I proud of my german/irish heritage along with or just forgetting the holocaust and holy wars?

I prefer to take a look at history and how it affected my well-being now. It may be possible one of my great-grand parents was involved in execution of the holocaust, or a serial murderer or a rapist. And while people as narrow-minded as they are, I am not that person. I am a decendant but most of all yet another individual with a mind of his own who is trying to build his life on values who are presumably right. While that great-grand-father may have been a rotten spot, it will in no way represent an entire "culture"/family-attitude no matter how hard anyone tries. It will represent the culture or family-attitude if, and only if, there are many more cases in the same trend as that person to the extend that such cases outweigh in numbers the normal ones.

 Quote:
I'm just waiting for someone to come along and say "Would you two just fuck already?"

Sorry, I am a straight guy; I like boobs, booze and bottoms.
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#40431 - 07/18/10 07:55 AM Re: Black People in America [Re: Dimitri]
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Speaking of bottoms I know you're into trying to preserve the culture and race you're proud of but if you like the bottoms you go black. Now those are some asses to be culturally and racially PROUD of! ;\)
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#40437 - 07/18/10 01:30 PM Re: Black People in America [Re: TV is God]
Morbid Rex Offline
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As a "colored individual" I'm glad to see that for the most part this thread was full of reasonable opinions and answers other than mindless race bashing. With that said I'd like to add that this is a topic that interests me a lot, but because of the fact that I'm sleepy and most of the good points I was going to make have already been stated I'll just add on a little bit. Plus it couldn't hurt to hear the opinion of an "African American" himself on this issue ;).

I believe when approaching this question you should use a variety of data ranging from historical, to observational, to scientific, those are the three main intellectual avenues I try to use when it comes to the question of black performance in America and abroad, and to me what it comes down to is not simply a matter of nature or nurture, but a combination of both.

You must keep in mind that intelligence was highly frowned upon by the White slave masters in the South, as pointed out the slaves were not bred to be smart, but to be work horses. The only book that the slaves were familair with was The Bible because it offered comfort and had passages which supported slavery, and as you can imagine most slaves had a low literacy rate, so I'm sure they took the good book very literally (hence why so many African Americans are so illogically religious today.)

Fast forward a few years and the slaves are emancipated, they are "free", but they're free into a world which is as alien to them as when their ancestors arrived. They are not prepared for life in the Anglo Saxon America, which still despite giving them freedom, harbors mistrust and resentment towards their group. Many of them, lacking education or any skills outside of manual labor become indentured servants, thus going right back to the life they were told they would be freed from. Eventually some move into the White majority cities, but of course the classy and educated Whites want nothing to do with these lowly savages and White flight takes place, thus all the skilled educated Whites leave behind their unprepared bastard children in these new cities to fend for themselves. Now you have families of unskilled and uneducated people populating this city, with nobody there to keep property value up, thus ghettoization takes place and you end up with places like Detroit.

Generations and generations begin to enter upon the scene from these "forgotten children" of the American slave economy, and adversity continues to keep them from reaching the "American dream" soon a twisted culture begins to develop. Not one that is based upon the lily White American dream, but one that is based off of a thug mentality, gangsterdom, instant gratification and the perpetuation of stupidity on every level; after all the deadbeat cornerstore alcoholoic and his equally lowly wife (IF he and his woman are married to begin with) aren't exactly candidates to produce a child capable of becoming a famous brain surgeon.

With that said it isn't all doom and gloom for the Black American, across the board IQ is increasing (look up the Flynn Effect), and the Black IQ is gaining on the White IQ. Also it seems that the Blacks who have been a part of a wider reality, other then this construed Ghetto American life where status if achieved from being the most Hood, are much better off when it comes to education. African Blacks who immigrate to America regularly outperform Black Americans on an educational level. And for that matter, IQ is a slippery slope which still isn't very well defined. As an example try this thought experiment which relates to the topic at hand. Gruff British Empire educated hunter goes to the Dark Continent on exploration, meets the savage neighbors and dedcides to test their reasoning skills from the viewpoint of the British Empire. They conclude that based off of their test taking skills, these people are inferior. Now it's the savages turn, they decide to test out Mr. British Huntsman, and they find that the fool cannot construct a hut to save his life, read the stars to navigate where he's going and is thus easily lost in the jungle, and is all around a bumbling idiot when it comes to survival.

You see where I'm going with this I'm sure.
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#40439 - 07/18/10 02:00 PM Re: Black People in America [Re: Morbid Rex]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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I find your points to be totally valid, and logical. I have to give you a lot of credit for being able to look at the situation so objectively, instead of emotionally.

If you are completely right however, then how would one explain that a very large number of the “American Black” population continues to have so much difficulty in modern society even though they have had at least three generations of opportunities specifically aimed at helping them to get ahead. I am mainly talking about affirmative action, and special treatment in regards to colleges accepting them even if they fall shorter then some whites in regards to their qualifications for admittance.

On a side note, just to show that I am coming from an Objective point of view and not a prejudiced one, I can freely admit that if you can write as clearly and well as you just did in that last post even though you are “tired,” you are probably better educated and perhaps more intelligent then I am. My point is that I have absolutely no qualms about admitting if I am out classed by anyone of any race, belief, or ethnicity, which is the reason that I also do not have any qualms making statements to the opposite in certain discussions.
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#40441 - 07/18/10 02:36 PM Re: Black People in America [Re: Asmedious]
Morbid Rex Offline
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Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
I find your points to be totally valid, and logical. I have to give you a lot of credit for being able to look at the situation so objectively, instead of emotionally.

If you are completely right however, then how would one explain that a very large number of the “American Black” population continues to have so much difficulty in modern society even though they have had at least three generations of opportunities specifically aimed at helping them to get ahead. I am mainly talking about affirmative action, and special treatment in regards to colleges accepting them even if they fall shorter then some whites in regards to their qualifications for admittance.

On a side note, just to show that I am coming from an Objective point of view and not a prejudiced one, I can freely admit that if you can write as clearly and well as you just did in that last post even though you are “tired,” you are probably better educated and perhaps more intelligent then I am. My point is that I have absolutely no qualms about admitting if I am out classed by anyone of any race, belief, or ethnicity, which is the reason that I also do not have any qualms making statements to the opposite in certain discussions.


Well firstly I'm not as versed in contemporary educational situations as much as I am with how the current ghetto culture got to be the way it is, so I don't expect to answer this as well as I maybe could. But if I had to think about it, I would say Affirmative Actions hurts more then helps. I prefer a
pull yourself up by the bootstraps" approach to that problem. No sense in giving people a fish without teaching them how to fish themselves, eh? I also personally think this problem might still stem from culture and even subconcious (& concious) feelings of inferiority.

Despite the fact that I, and I'm sure you know otherwise, there are many Blacks who still feel resentment towards the American system and feel as though it is intentionally set up to keep them down. Thus there's this pervasive attitude of "why try if I'll never be as good" attitude that goes around. There's also the idiotic idea that achievement = trying to be white among some members of the Black community. I actually witnessed an older Black man given me a horrible look when I was walking by the Mall one day with a book I had just purchased there, I gave the coward a snarl right back and of course he looked away, but I digress.

The point is, achieving high success is seen as selling out among some American Blacks. I think the problem is that Blacks engage in group thinking entirely too much, it makes sense given the history of the people as a defense mechanism, but nowadays I think it just hinders more than helps. Some groups like Asians seem to benefit from it, but Blacks have too much of a "crab in the bucket" mentality. Thankfully I've learned to be an individual and judge others on their individual merit as opposed to such foolish mentalities.
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#40449 - 07/18/10 04:56 PM Re: Black People in America [Re: Morbid Rex]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
 Originally Posted By: Morbid Rex

Well firstly I'm not as versed in contemporary educational situations as much as I am with how the current ghetto culture got to be the way it is, so I don't expect to answer this as well as I maybe could. But if I had to think about it, I would say Affirmative Actions hurts more then helps. I prefer a
pull yourself up by the bootstraps" approach to that problem. No sense in giving people a fish without teaching them how to fish themselves, eh?


You're not alone. When I was a Senior in high school, I had a government class and the question of affirmative actions came up. Keep in mind I went to a school with a very high black population, I was one of 4 white people in the class. Nobody thought affirmative action was a good idea, preferring to make it on their own hard work. Though by this time a class that started out with 2,000 students dwindled down to 200, so this was a group of the more intelligent people than one might find in a normal situation.

Side note, they were fun as hell to hang out with. They went as far as starting to consider me black as well, even though I'm so pale I practically glow in the dark and I can't stand main stream rap, hip-hop, and R&B (some underground stuff is pretty good). I was able to get away with saying and doing things most white people can only dream of without being called racist and/or having negative social consequences.
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