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#29657 - 09/16/09 11:48 AM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Final Conflict Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 47
 Quote:
Prior to/at the time of this phone conversation, Zeena was High Priestess of the Church and Nikolas was Anton's fair-haired collaborator and protege. Zeena's estrangement from her father had nothing to do with any machinations by Nikolas (who happens to be a very accomplished and sophisticated published author)


I find it interesting that you deny the accusation of Nazism against Feral House that you made in your book (you specifically refer to as a "skinhead-market" publisher in your article on "Devil's Notebook"), but even more interesting is how you insist upon referring to Magistra Barton by her birth name, Sharon Densley.

Yet, you continue to refer to Nicholas "Shreck" by his preferred name, rather than his birth name, Barry Dubin.

Why is that? And why do you ignore the fact that both Zeena and her husband are very much involved in neo-Nazi social circles in Germany and have been for many years? I've seen you accuse Gilmore and Barton of many things, including Nazism, and yet when it comes to your friends, you are quite willing overlook this.

As for Nicholas being a "very accomplished and sophisticated" published author, that is purely your opinion and not a fact. He's published a few books, none of which are particularly interesting. His former band, "Radio Werewolf," which I fully encourage everyone in this forum to listen to if they have the time, was the most dreadful excuse for goth rock I have ever had the misfortune of listening to in my life.

And you call Nicholas Dr. LaVey's "fair-haired collaborator and protege" - two points:

1) Nicholas isn't fair-haired. He bleaches his hair to look more "Aryan." He is of Jewish descent.

2) There is absolutely no evidence at all that the Doctor ever considered Nicholas his "collaborator" or "protege." In fact, there is plenty of evidence, and first-hand accounts from others, that the Doctor despised Nicholas and went to great lengths not to work with him.

You see, you ignore the fact that it was Nicholas who was so desperate to be the Doctor's protege and collaborator, but the Doctor had no time for his BS. After years of Nicholas' nagging, the Doctor had finally had it.

Nicholas became enraged and decided to get revenge. In this case, Zeena's letter renouncing her father. I can tell you one thing, while the Doctor was upset that Zeena was so stupidly incompetent to have done that, he was very much glad to be rid of her parasite husband.

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#29659 - 09/16/09 12:23 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Final Conflict]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
[quote=Final Conflict]
 Quote:
As for Nicholas being a "very accomplished and sophisticated" published author, that is purely your opinion and not a fact. He's published a few books, none of which are particularly interesting. His former band, "Radio Werewolf," which I fully encourage everyone in this forum to listen to if they have the time, was the most dreadful excuse for goth rock I have ever had the misfortune of listening to in my life.


In the interest of a greater understanding of this topic, for those of you who've never heard the music of Radio Werewolf, I am including these links to selections of the band's music, so that you can evaluate its merits according to your own musical tastes. - Jake

DARK AGES -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfwz3xmVs...rom=PL&index=45

THE NIGHT -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihfrmb5hk...rom=PL&index=46

THE VOICE OF TERROR -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m5YkfLcwdY

STRENGTH THROUGH JOY -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpzUnegRIFc&feature=related

LUCHORPAN -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbi3OkaF9do&feature=related

OPERATION CARNIVAL -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XCmuceIiCc&feature=related

INCUBUS -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTdIATyDi6M
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29663 - 09/16/09 01:56 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
To somehow insinuate that the elevated degrees were somehow less in stature or less meaningful than when you were elevated is ludicrous. Nothing was just given out and those of us who earned... I stress EARNED... our stripes (Certificates of Degree) were no less proud of them and the work we put in to get them than you must have been. If that is indeed your assumption, I take it as a personal insult.

Jake, in all the years since 1975 I have never once encountered, read of, or heard of a "priest", "magistra", "magister", and now "magus" of the "Church of Satan" who wasn't an utter embarrassment to the concept. These designations all had formal, carefully-developed significance adapted by the Church from their historic origins in the S.R.I.A., the G.D., and the A.A. The degree-system of the Church necessarily had a Left-Hand, not a Right-Hand Path orientation, of course, and the Priesthood of Mendes was a unique addition, growing from the Church's original 1968-69 concept of having both priests and ministers.

If you want to champion Densley as a "magistra" and Gilmore as a "magus", far be it from me to restrain you. As for the "priesthood", well, there's Marilyn Manson and ...

 Originally Posted By: San Francisco Chronicle
DAVIS PARTY PERFORMER SAYS HE'S SATANIC PRIEST
- by Don Lattin, Chronicle Religion Writer
May 8, 1997

San Francisco's civic sideshow got even stranger yesterday when the performance artist whose S&M act headlined a political birthday bash revealed himself as a Satanic priest.

Rev. Steven Johnson Leyba, an ordained priest in the San Francisco-based Church of Satan, had a satanic Pentagram carved on his back as part of the entertainment at political consultant Jack Davis' 50th birthday party Saturday night.

Davis' evening of debauchery was attended by many of the city's leading politicos and the top brass for the 49ers - the same folks who've hired Davis to convince San Francisco voters that the city needs a new football stadium.

Leyba, who leads a performance troupe called the United Satanic Apache Front, is upset that amid all the uproar over last week's party no one has explained why he goes onstage to be sodomized with a Jack Daniels bottle by a woman who dresses up like Pocahontas.

"The act is a literal metaphor for how alcohol was forced upon my people," said Leyba, who is one-quarter Mescalero Apache.

Leyba sees himself in the Native American tradition of the trickster - a clown of contrariness who seeks to "sabotage complacency".

Yesterday the trick was on Davis and local politicians trying to convince city voters to approve a June 3 bond measure to build a new 49er stadium and shopping mall. "No new stadium," said Leyba, explaining that he's against the measure because he used to get beat up by football players at his high school in Camden, Arkansas.

Leyba said he was ordained two years ago by the notorious Anton LaVey, who founded the Church of Satan in San Francisco in 1966.

Assisting Leyba in Saturday night's act - playing the part of Pocahontas - was Danielle Willis, a San Francisco performance artist, poet, and author.

Leyba calls his self-styled ritual the "Apache Whiskey Rite". It includes having a satanic Pentagram carved in his back, and being urinated on by other members of his troupe.

Yesterday, as several amazed customers looked on, Leyba sat in a San Francisco coffee house and proudly displayed his satanic scars to a Chronicle reporter and photographer.

"We were the main part of the show," Leyba said, referring to the birthday party. "Everyone said the strippers got naked, but they didn't. They were just go-go dancing. The only other person beside me who was naked was someone called 'The Diesel Dyke'."

Asked who hired him to perform at Davis' party, Leyba replied, "I'm not at liberty to discuss that. My lawyer told me not to discuss that."

LaVey, the Church of Satan leader, could not be reached for comment yesterday. And representatives of the Mescalero Apache tribe in New Mexico said they never heard of Leyba or the "Apache Whiskey Rite".

So am I missing something here?

Notwithstanding the above, in your own case my impression - from everything I've read on this board so far - is that you're a sincere, mature, and conscientious gentleman. I have no reason to think that you didn't approach your work at 6114 with these same qualities. However I don't recall seeing Hoof or other magical, philosophical, theoretical, practical articles by you, nor heard of any Church presence by you outside the doors. In fact, I've never heard mention of you at all until here/now. So what degree did you hold, how did you qualify for it, and what does it mean to you? Not to rattle your cage, I'm honestly [and respectfully] curious.

 Originally Posted By: Jake
Post 1975, Michael Aquino relinquished all rights to kibitz. If he had really cared that much about it, he would have stayed and worked from within to try to get things to run the way he wanted. He didn't.

Concerning Anton's surprise decision to sell all of the degrees (including the Priesthood of Mendes), I did indeed my utmost to dissuade him, as detailed in the ebook-you-don't-want-me-to-mention. I was told to shut up and support it. That I could not in good conscience do.

It was further not an issue of my "wanting things run the way I wanted". Anton was destroying a system of merit, methodical evaluation, and [in the case of the Priesthood] sacred trust that had been nurtured, and which was intensely meaningful to hundreds of Satanists nationwide, over the previous decade. The avalanche of resignations [were you told it was only a handful?] following his decision speaks more eloquently to this than I need to.

And most distressingly it was Anton Szandor LaVey who took this action. I can't tell you the shock waves that this sent through the entire Church. We're not talking about Bill Clinton being caught porking Monica here; the Church of Satan was a heroic, invincible, triumphantly vital phenomenon that had just had an arrow shot into its heel by the only person alive who could have done it.

That's how it was. The notion of "working within" such a crippled monstrosity was, under these circumstances, pointless. We would have been doing nothing but prop up the corpse of the authentic Church, to make it a good cash cow, and that is absolutely not why we came to it, worked to build it, and risked our lives and futures for it.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#29664 - 09/16/09 02:37 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Final Conflict]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Final Conflict
I find it interesting that you deny the accusation of Nazism against Feral House that you made in your book (you specifically refer to as a "skinhead-market" publisher in your article on "Devil's Notebook") ...

If you equate all "skinheads" with Nazism, that's your opinion, not mine.

 Originally Posted By: FC
you insist upon referring to Magistra Barton by her birth name, Sharon Densley.

If you consider her a "Magistra" and Peter Gilmore is a "Magus", and if you want to call her by Anton's pet 1940s-noir name for her, you're more than welcome.

 Originally Posted By: FC
Yet, you continue to refer to Nicholas "Shreck" by his preferred name, rather than his birth name, Barry Dubin.

So you go right ahead and call him BD. [Gee, this is an easy post to answer.]

 Originally Posted By: FC
And why do you ignore the fact that both Zeena and her husband are very much involved in neo-Nazi social circles in Germany and have been for many years?

Are you aware of any American or German laws they have broken? Undeserved harm that they have done to anyone? If so, and you feel like trashing them, start a thread and do so.

 Originally Posted By: FC
I've seen you accuse Gilmore and Barton of many things, including Nazism

Where did I ever accuse either of them of Nazism? Don't take this personally, but you seem a bit Joe McCarthy-lavish with your Nazi!-Nazi! accusations. Take some deep breaths and have a 7Up. And don't drive Volkswagen beetles; Hitler helped to design them, you know.

 Originally Posted By: FC
1) Nicholas isn't fair-haired. He bleaches his hair to look more "Aryan." He is of Jewish descent.

It was black during our ca. 1990-2000 acquaintance. Can you bleach to black? And is there something the matter with being of Jewish descent? I don't think so.

 Originally Posted By: FC
There is absolutely no evidence at all that the Doctor ever considered Nicholas his "collaborator" or "protege." In fact, there is plenty of evidence, and first-hand accounts from others, that the Doctor despised Nicholas and went to great lengths not to work with him.

Woo hoo, I should post a transcript of that 1990 phone call wherein Anton and Nikolas were slobbering over each other for an hour. But I really don't have the time or inclination to transcribe it, so enjoy your version.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#29665 - 09/16/09 02:57 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
[quote=Jake999]
Notwithstanding the above, in your own case my impression - from everything I've read on this board so far - is that you're a sincere, mature, and conscientious gentleman. I have no reason to think that you didn't approach your work at 6114 with these same qualities. However I don't recall seeing Hoof or other magical, philosophical, theoretical, practical articles by you, nor heard of any Church presence by you outside the doors. In fact, I've never heard mention of you at all until here/now. So what degree did you hold, how did you qualify for it, and what does it mean to you? Not to rattle your cage, I'm honestly [and respectfully] curious.


While I have never indicated to anyone her what my degree was within the Church of Satan under Dr. LaVey, and don't intend to now, simply because I would rather people judge what I SAY, rather than what titles I can come up with, I can say that I was granted elevation by Dr. LaVey. What my position meant (and still means) is that I represent The Church of Satan and Dr. LaVey. Whether it's then or now, I still remain loyal to that vision that I supported then. Same as my military oath of enlistment... there was no time limit specified.

I was responsible for the computerization of the Church of Satan, bringing in the 1st Macintosh computers, bringing taking the initiative to computerize many of the files and loose-details that were generally stuffed into the files in "the lion's den," as I called it... through the kitchen door past the picture advertisement of the bulldog smoking a cigarette (which always struck me as odd.) I was also, at times, LaVey's bodyguard, at times, enforcer and all other duties, as required. So, as you know, I might be whipping through traffic in the limo, I might be providing guard services... whatever.

As for never hearing of me. Great. I was an Administrator. I never sought to be out in the public. I served at the pleasure of the High Priest. My name wasn't Jake for work purposes, but Jeremy, which LaVey called me because I reminded him of his nephew.

I did write some pieces for The Cloven Hoof... mostly filler pieces. For a while, we used my disign for the Hoof (stylized pitchforks on either side of the text). Unfortunately, many of my Cloven Hoofs were lost by the military in a PCS move, but you might remember a tongue in cheek piece I did on anthropophagy, under the pen name WILLIE MUNCHALOT (sorry... was in a mood that day) "Cannibalism... Food For Thought, about feeding starving people in areas like Ethiopia fortified and processed meat from the dead, in the Summer XX issue. Also in that same issue, I did "Where Have All The Witches Gone under the pen name Thomas Pickering. Also, Welcome Back, June Cleaver by Jake Horowitz about the feminist movement, in the Third Quarter XXI issue. Others as well, but, thanks to the wonderful people in household goods shipments, most of my hoofs are forever in the limbo of wherever they went, and unfortunately, this far after the fact, I remember few of the titles or pen names used. At the time I had to leave the Administration, I was working on the preliminary draft of The Secret Life of A Satanist... kind of glad I didn't get to see that one through, because it stunk on ice, in my opinion.

But as I said, I didn't ask for notoriety as a member of the staff and didn't want notoriety as a member of the staff. I wanted to be the best damned (pun unintended, but accepted) administrator LaVey had had or would ever have. Beyond that, I was still in the military, working my "day job" at Travis, doing the all day work routine, driving to the city several times a week, then back for three hours of sleep before being back on duty at the base. My time was, as you can understand, pretty limited and quite full.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29669 - 09/16/09 03:24 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Final Conflict Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 47
 Quote:
And is there something the matter with being of Jewish descent? I don't think so.


Did I say there was? No. The Doctor himself was of Jewish descent. But there is a problem with being a self-hating Jew, which Barry Dubin is. Otherwise, why would he go to great lengths to hide his Jewish heritage and kiss the asses of European neo-Nazis? You'd really have to be a self-loathing, miserable parasite of a person to do that.

Let's be honest, Dr. Aquino - just admit the guy is a loser. You don't need to stick up for a guy like that.

 Quote:
Woo hoo, I should post a transcript of that 1990 phone call wherein Anton and Nikolas were slobbering over each other for an hour. But I really don't have the time or inclination to transcribe it, so enjoy your version.


A transcript isn't necessary, but if you want to back it up, post a digital recording and we'll judge for ourselves the veracity of the tape.

 Quote:
If you equate all "skinheads" with Nazism, that's your opinion, not mine.


That's certainly the subtext you hint at, since Feral House is certainly not a "skinhead" publisher - why don't you clue me in as to what that is supposed to mean exactly?

 Quote:
If you consider her a "Magistra" and Peter Gilmore is a "Magus", and if you want to call her by Anton's pet 1940s-noir name for her, you're more than welcome.


Nice way to deflect the point of my argument.

 Quote:
Are you aware of any American or German laws they have broken? Undeserved harm that they have done to anyone? If so, and you feel like trashing them, start a thread and do so.


Ah, here we reach the crux of the problem. Thus far you have gone to great lengths, in fact to the point of obsession, in trashing Dr. LaVey, Barton, and practically everyone involved in the CoS post-1975.

Yet when someone else holds up the mirror in front of your face, you simply ignore it and raise up a straw man.

 Quote:
Where did I ever accuse either of them of Nazism? Don't take this personally, but you seem a bit Joe McCarthy-lavish with your Nazi!-Nazi! accusations. Take some deep breaths and have a 7Up. And don't drive Volkswagen beetles; Hitler helped to design them, you know.


Yes, we all know how much you admire Hitler, which is why I found it ironic when you accused Gilmore, Barton, and others in the CoS hierarchy of Nazi inclinations (and yes, I'll start digging up the references when I have time and post them here.)

Mind you I never accused you of "Nazism." It is very well known that both Zeena and Shreck (Barry Dubin) are involved in neo-Nazi circles in Germany. That's not an accusation. That is a fact.

I bring it up because you've accused Dr. LaVey, Barton, and Gilmore of all sorts of absurdities, most of which are not grounded in reality.

Now, you can trash Gilmore all you want. I don't like the guy. I can't stand being around the guy. The very sound of his voice makes me cringe. He's not a bad guy, and he's reasonably intelligent and very well educated like yourself. But a university education, as we all know, doesn't automatically mean everything is 100% A-Okay upstairs.

As for Magistra Barton, I like her. I've met her many times and she is a very polite, articulate, and intelligent woman. She was also extremely in love with Dr. LaVey, as he was with her, and was his constant companion for many years.

I don't give a damn what you or anyone else thinks of her, and I find it rather disingenuous for you to constantly trash her when you've never even met her. Yet you continue to bash her time and time again.

Some people dislike her because she is the one responsible for making Gilmore and his wife, Peggy Nadramia, High Priest and Priestess, respectively.

The only reason she did that, for anyone who is curious, is because to their credit, Gilmore and Nadramia were the only people out there willing to help her out and get things settled. She had a small child that she had to now raise by herself and the stress and anguish of the events after the Doctor's passing left everything somewhat up in the air.

It was Gilmore and Nadramia who took her and Xerxes in after she was forced to leave 6114 California St and helped her get the Church's affairs back in order. Not a single member of the hierarchy at the time even bothered to lift a finger to do anything. Only Gilmore and his wife.

That's why she granted them control of the Church. Originally, her plan was to co-administer the Church with Karla, but they had a falling out. The only two people who know why that falling out occurred is Karla and Magistra Barton.

If that falling out had not occurred, and Karla had remained a High Priestess of the Church, obviously everything would be very different today.

But what happened happened, and that can't be changed. In handing over control to Gilmore, Magistra Barton did what she did because at the time, it seemed like the best choice, and it probably was the best choice. Gilmore is an effective administrator and he did a great deal over the years in helping out the Doctor from NYC. There also really wasn't anyone else in the priesthood at the time who was capable of taking the responsibility. Gilmore, at the very least, considering all the points above, was trustworthy insofar as he would keep the Church going, which he has, though taking it in a very wrong direction and turning the Church into a more or less commercial enterprise with the ToV.

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#29671 - 09/16/09 03:56 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Final Conflict]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I do like most of the debate that goes on here but could we leave the "He's a Nazi and he too" parts out of it? It's irrelevant. Things evolved a bit nowadays and are not as simple as too often presented in the media. The word Nazi isn't the political nigger that makes people shiver any longer.

Thanks.

D.

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#29673 - 09/16/09 04:07 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Diavolo]
Final Conflict Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 47
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I do like most of the debate that goes on here but could we leave the "He's a Nazi and he too" parts out of it? It's irrelevant. Things evolved a bit nowadays and are not as simple as too often presented in the media. The word Nazi isn't the political nigger that makes people shiver any longer.

Thanks.

D.


I'm just stating the facts about Zeena and her husband (they are indeed involved in the European far-right, or at least they try), since Dr. Aquino has been putting down members of the CoS post-1975 while presenting both of them as being exemplary and intelligent figures, and stating blatant untruths about Shreck being the Doctor's "collaborator and protege" and so on.

As for making people shiver, that's certainly not my intent. Zeena and Dubin don't make anyone shiver - they do, however, certainly inspire laughter.

BTW: Much thanks to Jake for posting those YouTube links to some excellent "classics" from Radio Werewolf!


Edited by Final Conflict (09/16/09 04:10 PM)
Edit Reason: note to jake

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#29677 - 09/16/09 05:53 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Final Conflict]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Final Conflict
Let's be honest, Dr. Aquino - just admit [Nikolas Schreck] is a loser. You don't need to stick up for a guy like that.

Nikolas has his virtues and his vices, just like the rest of us. I admire much of his intellectual acumen and accomplishments, and he rose from Setian I° to Magister Templi IV° in the Temple of Set during his tenure with us (about 1992-2000) entirely on his personal merit and state of being. [So did Zeena.] Such evaluations in the Temple, incidentally, are very extensive and, in the case of the IV°, require Council of Nine review and ratification.

Nikolas was also capable of being a royal pain in the ass, of course. This was exasperating, but did not negate his positive accomplishments any more than Anton's being a RPITA at times negates his. [I don't mind including myself too.] Quoth the venerable Aristotle: "There is no genius without a mixture of madness."

As for you, well, let's just say that I'm waiting to admire your positive accomplishments.

 Quote:
A transcript isn't necessary, but if you want to back it up, post a digital recording and we'll judge for ourselves the veracity of the tape.

I am only marginally computer-literate and wouldn't have the vaguest idea how to do that, nor quite frankly do I give a rat's ass about your "judgment". You can take my word for it or not, per your pleasure.

 Originally Posted By: FC
 Originally Posted By: M.A.A.
If you equate all "skinheads" with Nazism, that's your opinion, not mine.

That's certainly the subtext you hint at, since Feral House is certainly not a "skinhead" publisher - why don't you clue me in as to what that is supposed to mean exactly?

No, since you're clearly having much more fun fantasizing about it.

 Originally Posted By: FC
 Originally Posted By: MAA
Are you aware of any American or German laws they have broken? Undeserved harm that they have done to anyone? If so, and you feel like trashing them, start a thread and do so.

Ah, here we reach the crux of the problem. Thus far you have gone to great lengths, in fact to the point of obsession, in trashing Dr. LaVey, Barton, and practically everyone involved in the CoS post-1975.

Yet when someone else holds up the mirror in front of your face, you simply ignore it and raise up a straw man.

I don't think so. My comments concerning Anton et al. here have been factual, responsive to questions. Some of those have been positive, some negative. Where Densley is concerned, others will have to speak to her positive points, as is certainly their privilege. Similarly if you feel like attacking the Schrecks, that's your privilege.

 Quote:
Yes, we all know how much you admire Hitler, which is why I found it ironic when you accused Gilmore, Barton, and others in the CoS hierarchy of Nazi inclinations (and yes, I'll start digging up the references when I have time and post them here.)

Damn, you've got me! Back in 1974 I jokingly suggested to Diane that we should start a political arm named the "National Satanist Devil's Advocate Party". The initials were not lost on her husband, and he wrote back:

 Originally Posted By: Anton LaVey
Herr Politische Leiter Michael A. Aquino
Aussendienstelle Santa Barbara
Kalifornia, Nordamerika.

Dear “Mike”:

You must be joking, ha ha, but of course when you made mention to my Frau regarding politische Partei. How gets by you such an cuckoo ideal I have a trouble to fathom. You, as well as myself know that suchkind of thinking is nonsense of the first Wasser. My friend, when der Tag comes, then perhaps we entertain a thought or perhaps two thoughts. Until then, it is of the utmost importance to put aside this madness.

Of course and most reasonably, we will continue in the development of our most needed functions: Abwehrpolizei, sites for future Konzentrationslagen, and but of course a finely appointed Salon Kitty such as Heydrich had in Berlin for the joy of senior officers.

I might add, as matter of fact I will add to this the extreme impotance of elimination of all non-Satanists by humane means. I have some new and worthy experiments in the rear end of my mind in which instance many non-Satanist “volunteers” will be useful. So much for sonderbehandling.

At any rates, you are possessed of a grand imagination when you make a suggestion of politische Partei. I have bet your Fraulein in Sommerland would have ein good belly laugh if she could hear of such ridiculousness. We are a peaceful Volk, wanting only that the Welt bow to our domination. If the good peoples want us to provide Politik for them, they will ask. In the means while we let them hit each other and steal purses and get rapped in parks. Maybe after some time they will ask us and then we can provide politische solution. Until then, please my friend und Brüder, excuse my typewriting [my Sekretär is tied up], and keep a cold head concerning politische Partei.

Ewiges Satan,
Anton Szandor LaVey
Satanische Reichsführer


 Originally Posted By: FC
It was Gilmore and Nadramia who took her and Xerxes in after she was forced to leave 6114 California St and helped her get the Church's affairs back in order. Not a single member of the hierarchy at the time even bothered to lift a finger to do anything. Only Gilmore and his wife.

Then perhaps you and Jake need to have a chat concerning that hierarchy about which he speaks so highly? I'm more than content to let you two work that one out.

 Originally Posted By: FC
That's why she granted them control of the Church. Originally, her plan was to co-administer the Church with Karla, but they had a falling out. The only two people who know why that falling out occurred is Karla and Magistra Barton.

Not really:

 Originally Posted By: San Francisco Chronicle
SATAN'S DEN IN GREAT DISREPAIR:
Relatives of S.F. hellhound Anton LaVey battle over 'Black House'"
- by Don Lattin, Religion Writer
Monday, January 25, 1999

If the condition of the infamous Black House is any indication, San Francisco's Church of Satan has really gone to hell.

For three decades, this sinister Richmond District home, painted black and smoky purple, was the worldwide headquarters of Anton LaVey, whose blend of sex, Satan and showmanship made him the media's favorite devil worshiper.

Today, the property at 6114 California St. looks like the Addams Family home after a Saturday night frat party. Smashed furniture and a soiled mattress lay amid a mountain of garbage in the small front yard, behind a tall chain-link fence topped with barbed wire.

Adding insult to injury, some blasphemous graffiti artist has scrawled the words "Jesus Rulz" on the mail slot.

LaVey, 67, died of heart disease in 1997, two days before Halloween, at (of all places) St. Mary's Hospital in San Francisco.

Often called "the Black Pope", LaVey has left behind a messy legacy of lawsuits, family infighting and decaying real estate.

Earlier this month, lawyers for LaVey's two grown daughters, Zeena Schreck and Karla LaVey, along with an attorney representing Blanche Barton - his last consort, high priestess and mother of his 5-year-old son, Xerxes - appeared before a probate judge in San Francisco Superior Court.

Friday a tentative settlement was reached in the case.

At issue was a handwritten will dated March 9, 1995, in which LaVey left Barton "all writings, artwork, property and holdings". Continuing royalties from his books, including his 1969 manifesto, the _Satanic Bible_, were to be held in a trust for Xerxes "unless Blanche Barton deems otherwise".

Karla LaVey challenged the will in a lawsuit filed last year, contending that her father "was not of sound and disposing mind and was under the influence of medication".

She further alleged that Barton had "undue influence" over her ailing father because, as his only caregiver, she "threatened to leave him if he did not do what she wanted".

In response, Barton posted a proclamation on the Internet, a favorite vehicle for satanic communication, accusing Karla LaVey of falsely "claiming the title of High Priestess of the Church of Satan for herself".

"Though she has reluctantly agreed to a handful of interviews over recent years," Barton wrote, "she hasn't participated in the actual operation of the Church for a very long time."

Barton has also sought to deny any inheritance to Anton LaVey's younger daughter, Schreck, noting that she joined a rival satanic sect, the Temple of Set, and publicly denounced her "un-father" in 1990.

Both Karla LaVey and Schreck were the product of LaVey's common-law marriage to Diane Hegarty from 1962 to 1986.[1] One of the highlights of that unholy union was Schreck's 1967 satanic baptism at the Black House, when she was 3 years old. The liturgy featured a naked 30-year-old priestess draped over the altar, breathing heavily, while Anton LaVey intoned, "Hail Satan!"

LaVey lost ownership of the Black House in 1991, when a San Francisco judge ordered him to sell the property, along with his satanic memorabilia, and split the money with his estranged wife. Included among the devilish artifacts were a shrunken head, a reproduction of King Tut's sarcophagus, and a stuffed wolf.

Despite the liquidation sale, the Black Pope was able to remain in the Black House by selling the property to a friend, San Francisco real estate developer Donald Werby, who let LaVey live out his final years in the notorious home.

After LaVey's death, Barton started a fund-raising campaign to buy the house back and turn it into a historic landmark, hoping to create a San Francisco shrine to the birthplace of latter-day devil worship.

Just before she was evicted last summer, Barton sent a letter to members of the church, calling the property a priceless piece of satanic history.

"Its roots went all the way to Hell," she wrote. "Now Anton LaVey is gone, and the people who own the property want to tear it down to build an apartment complex."

While Barton tried to raise money to save the Black House, several would-be satanists complained to the _Chronicle_ about lengthy delays in processing their $100 membership fees to join the church, which they sent to a San Francisco post office.

"The Church of Satan is dead as an entity," said one disgruntled member. "Its High Priests and Magisters have become nothing more than absentee landlords trying to convince those inside and out that they still exist so the money keeps coming in."

High Priestess Barton, who is now living in San Diego, declined a request for an interview.

But another church leader, Magister Peter Gilmore, disputes reports that the Church of Satan has gone to hell.

"The church is fine," said Gilmore, a church leader in New York City. "Part of the application process is testing people to see if they have patience."

"We want people to live their own lives, so we leave them hanging to see how they respond," he said. "You are your own God."

Attempts to reach Schreck and Karla LaVey through their attorneys were unsuccessful.

On Friday, lawyers for all three of the feuding devil worshipers filed a tentative settlement in the lawsuit over LaVey's estate.

Barton, Karla LaVey and Schreck agreed to split future royalties to Anton LaVey's works, including The Satanic Rituals, The Devil's Notebook, The Compleat Witch & Satan Takes a Holiday.

Personal property - including a bed of nails, a devil-horned cap, a cape with red lining and and an autographed Marilyn Monroe calendar - will be divided among the three.

Schreck and Karla LaVey agree "to release any and all right to operate, manage or direct the operations of the nonprofit corporation known as the Church of Satan".

Meanwhile, the future of the Black House remains uncertain. Barton nows says she has called off her campaign to raise $400,000 to buy the property, saying donations fell way short, and promises that donors' money will be returned.

"We aren't abandoning all hope for the Black House," she wrote in a follow-up letter. "We have been in contact with a number of organizations in San Francisco who make it their business to see that historically significant homes aren't destroyed."

Werby, the owner of the property, has his own troubles. He pleaded guilty in 1990 to two misdemeanor counts of statutory rape of underage prostitutes and to two misdemeanor counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor by offering a place for drug use.

Executives at Werby's Grosvenor Properties referred questions about the Black House to Werby's son, Todd, who said the home has been devilishly difficult to sell.

"We've talked to a few brokers, but it's not easily marketed as a house," he said. "It is in such a state of disrepair."

Property records show that a separate company, the Cass-Bagley Corp., has been set up as the legal owner of 6114 California St. Todd Werby said that corporation has no other holdings, and is partly owned by his father.

"We haven't applied for a demolition permit, but we look at it as a development site for condos," he said. "You could put three units there."

In her latest missive to fellow satanists, Barton says she still hopes a dark savior will appear to save the Black House.

"If someone's in the market for a notorious home that needs love and attention, he need look no further," she wrote. "Please do all you can - call that distant rich aunt of yours and convince her she really needs a change of scenery."

LaVEY SETTLEMENT

How some of Anton LaVey's personal property would be divided in an out-of-court settlement filed Friday in San Francisco Superior Court, possibly ending a bitter fight over Church of Satan memorabilia.

-- To High Priestess Blanche Barton - Rasputin chair, bed of nails and vintage Gramophone.

-- To daughter Zeena Schreck - Vampire boy painting, devil horned cap, Tyrone Power "Nightmare Alley_ movie poster and one-third of LaVey's cremated remains.

-- To daughter Karla LaVey - Skull from ritual chamber, Satin Doll pinball machine, coffin and examination table.

-- Items of property to be divided by Karla LaVey and Zeena Schreck - autographed Marilyn Monroe calendar, magic mirror with demons and Byzantine phallus.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#29680 - 09/16/09 06:18 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Final Conflict Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 47
 Quote:
Nikolas has his virtues and his vices, just like the rest of us. I admire much of his intellectual acumen and accomplishments, and he rose from Setian I° to Magister Templi IV° in the Temple of Set during his tenure with us (about 1992-2000) entirely on his personal merit and state of being. [So did Zeena.] Such evaluations in the Temple, incidentally, are very extensive and, in the case of the IV°, require Council of Nine review and ratification.


In other words, what you're basically saying is that you guys don't operate any differently than the way Gilmore operates. In other words, you just promote your friends up the ranks and the rest of the Council basically sign off on it. Very extensive, indeed.

 Quote:
As for you, well, let's just say that I'm waiting to admire your positive accomplishments.


Well, I do refer to you as "Dr. Aquino," you do have to admire that, don't you? ;\)

 Quote:
I am only marginally computer-literate and wouldn't have the vaguest idea how to do that, nor quite frankly do I give a rat's ass about your "judgment". You can take my word for it or not, per your pleasure.


I'll tell you what. Send me a copy of the tape and I'll do it for you. Or better yet, send it to one of the mods here. There are more than a few people here who would be able to do this for you.

BTW, you are far too modest. For someone who is only "marginally" computer literate, you have a pretty extensive history on Usenet, as well as putting together nicely done PDF files and so forth. Now, Dr. Aquino, it's not a bad thing to pat oneself on the back once in awhile and give credit where credit is due.

 Quote:
I don't think so. My comments concerning Anton et al. here have been factual, responsive to questions. Some of those have been positive, some negative. Where Densley is concerned, others will have to speak to her positive points, as is certainly their privilege. Similarly if you feel like attacking the Schrecks, that's your privilege.


I daresay it's a bit rich for you to state anything as a fact on the Doctor post-1975 since you had no interactions with him from that time up until his passing, and you have never met Magistra Barton.

I have no need to attack the "Shrecks" or their Teutonic credentials. They are quite good at humiliating themselves. Just between you and me (and everyone else here): you're glad they're out of the picture and doing their own thing in the Fatherland, right?

 Quote:
No, since you're clearly having much more fun fantasizing about it.


That's not very nice now, is it? But seriously, answer the question: why would you possibly consider Feral House to be a "skinhead" publisher? Perhaps you are the one with such lurid fantasies? Eh? ;\)

As regards the article you posted from the Chronicle, that doesn't explain anything about the falling out between Karla and Barton. That's just the public dispute, not the underlying cause of that dispute. For months Karla was living at the house and they both were getting along fine.

The article obviously doesn't go into the details of what transpired between them because neither of them spoke about it and they later agreed not to as part of the settlement. Whether the dispute revolved around the estate or how the Church should operate or whatever is ultimately speculation on our parts.

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#29683 - 09/16/09 07:13 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino

 Originally Posted By: FC
It was Gilmore and Nadramia who took her and Xerxes in after she was forced to leave 6114 California St and helped her get the Church's affairs back in order. Not a single member of the hierarchy at the time even bothered to lift a finger to do anything. Only Gilmore and his wife.


Then perhaps you and Jake need to have a chat concerning that hierarchy about which he speaks so highly? I'm more than content to let you two work that one out.


Sorry. Not on my watch, not my business. At the time this occurred, I was no longer in the administration and was busy with my job with a civilian corporation. Aside from that, my loyalty was to Dr. LaVey. I mourned his death, and with his death, I became simply a Satanist.

My pledge of loyalty was in no way extended to Blanche Barton (Densley) before or after his death. Yeah... it's cold and it's hard. It's hard, but it's fair. I wasn't asked for help. None was offered.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29684 - 09/16/09 07:59 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Jake999]
Final Conflict Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 47
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino

Then perhaps you and Jake need to have a chat concerning that hierarchy about which he speaks so highly? I'm more than content to let you two work that one out.


Sorry. Not on my watch, not my business. At the time this occurred, I was no longer in the administration and was busy with my job with a civilian corporation. Aside from that, my loyalty was to Dr. LaVey. I mourned his death, and with his death, I became simply a Satanist.

My pledge of loyalty was in no way extended to Blanche Barton (Densley) before or after his death. Yeah... it's cold and it's hard. It's hard, but it's fair. I wasn't asked for help. None was offered.


Unfortunately, Dr. Aquino's logic here is flawed and once again, he misses the point, raising another straw man.

At any rate what would he possibly expect anyone to discuss or "work out," as if either of us or anyone outside the current hierarchy (or even within it) would be able to have any effect on things as they are, let alone as they were.

Dr. Aquino, I'm sure you believe in time travel and everything, but back here in the real world such a thing is not yet possible. While you're still in the past circa 1970-1975, constantly immersing yourself in the nostalgia of what once was, especially ironic considering your critique of Dr. LaVey's nostalgia for the 1940s, the rest of the world has moved on.

The question is, which you have never answered, when will you move on and leave the Church of Satan behind forever and focus only upon the future of the Temple of Set? Jake also raised this question, but you also ignored it.

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#29690 - 09/17/09 12:30 AM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Final Conflict]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Final Conflict
what you're basically saying is that you guys don't operate any differently than the way Gilmore operates. In other words, you just promote your friends up the ranks and the rest of the Council basically sign off on it. Very extensive, indeed.

No. Take a look at Appendix #8 of my Temple of Set ebook, our corporate By-Laws. Included in these are the procedures by which all initiatory degrees are Recognized, and how officials & bodies such as the High Priest/ess and Council of Nine are selected.

The question of initiatory degree Recognition has always been of particular interest to the Temple since its founding, in part because it was Anton's corruption of the Church's system that brought it down.

FYI in the original Church all of the degrees were decided by Anton personally. In a membership of about 250 at any one time, this was not difficult, and, as I've commented, everyone trusted him absolutely. So complete was this trust that no one, including me, ever even asked to see the Church's corporate articles or cared whether we had a corporate presence in them. [You can see those articles as Appendix #156 of COS.]

When we founded the Temple of Set in 1975, it was incorporated as a non-profit church in California, qualified for federal & state exemptions as such, and structured with the corporate Articles & By-Laws in TOS Appendices #7&8. Note in particular that the corporate entity belongs to the Priesthood of Set collectively, not to any smaller group or individual official. Thus the Priesthood voted in these By-Laws, and only such a vote can amend them. As the Temple is a California corporation, they are legally binding.

Bringing this back to the Schrecks, in matter of fact I was never an evaluator or Recognizing authority of either of them at any degree. By the time they were nominated for the IV°, I was no longer High Priest. Thus they attained their progressive Recognitions by evaluation of other Setians with whom they worked through the years. I was very pleased with and impressed by this then, and still am despite their eventual departure.

 Originally Posted By: FC
Dr. Aquino, it's not a bad thing to pat oneself on the back once in awhile and give credit where credit is due.

As satirized on my webpage, for me it's been more of an Indiana Jones runaway mine car ride in which I have way too many snakes to think about "credit". My friends know that I've decided on my tombstone inscription: "Seemed like a nice enough guy. Little fucked up though."

 Quote:
I daresay it's a bit rich for you to state anything as a fact on the Doctor post-1975 since you had no interactions with him from that time up until his passing, and you have never met Magistra Barton.

Anything I've said about Anton post-1975, either in COS or here or elsewhere, is sourced as identified, and readers are welcome to evaluate accordingly. As for Densley, I don't bother to discuss her unless her name pops up in some document, article, or other reference item.

 Quote:
Just between you and me (and everyone else here): you're glad they're out of the picture and doing their own thing in the Fatherland, right?

No, I think it was a tragedy that Zeena's High Priesthood of Set was so short-lived. [She had problems with the By-Laws' constraints upon HP authority.] I think that if this unfortunate impasse had not arisen, she could have gone on to a long tenure as a superb High Priestess. Not to mention that I think it would have been a uniquely magical moment for Anton's daughter to carry forward the High Priesthood of the Prince of Darkness.

Similarly Nikolas was widely respected in the Temple, and I think it brought out, if you'll pardon Abraham Lincoln's phrase, "the better angels of his nature". So the severing situation, in which he stood by Zeena, was tragic in his case too.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#29692 - 09/17/09 01:06 AM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
... you might remember a tongue in cheek piece I did on anthropophagy, under the pen name WILLIE MUNCHALOT (sorry... was in a mood that day) "Cannibalism... Food For Thought, about feeding starving people in areas like Ethiopia fortified and processed meat from the dead, in the Summer XX issue. Also in that same issue, I did "Where Have All The Witches Gone under the pen name Thomas Pickering.

Did a quick rummage; don't have that issue.

 Quote:
Also, Welcome Back, June Cleaver by Jake Horowitz about the feminist movement, in the Third Quarter XXI issue.

Found that one. Bullseye article; bet Anton wagged his tail at that one, since he was a prize 'og on this topic generally, e.g. the trap modern women are caught in between being "feminine" and "assertive". Still going on today, of course. Contemporary men have somewhat the same stress between "macho masculinity" and "considerate mates", but women take it for granted that we're crazy, while we expect them to be perfect.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#29724 - 09/17/09 07:17 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Samuel Hain Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 62
Loc: arkansas
Dr. Aquino: Could you please describe the appearance of the Prince of Darkness when he manifested himself unto you? I am very curious.
Was it in the form of Set, Pan, or in his Luciferian, arch-angel guise.

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