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#40531 - 07/20/10 01:28 AM Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him?
Meatl Gear Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 41
I think Anton LaVey had a lot of good ideas, but I do not try to match him step for step philosophically. What do you do? I view Lavey the same way I view Plato or Socrates. A philosopher, but not some sort of model to which I must conform perfectly. How do you view him? As a guidebook on how to live life, or as a man who had some ideas you agree with, others you disagree with.
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#40532 - 07/20/10 01:36 AM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: Meatl Gear]
Morbid Rex Offline
member


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
I see him as a man who had interesting ideas which influenced me just as other thinkers and writers have. Lavey was my first introduction to the "Left Hand Path" and one of the first persons to really cause me to question the status quo, without reading his work I would probably be a different person today. So in short you can say Lavey changed my life just as anyone else with ideas I find or worthwhile may do so, but I do not try to live as him. I think anyone who tries to make themselves a caricature of Lavey would be regarded as a faker. As the saying goes Satanist are born not made.
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#40538 - 07/20/10 03:34 AM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: Meatl Gear]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I am in agreement with Dr. LaVey, rather than being a follower of Dr. LaVey.

I donít really follow The Satanic Bible, nor the conclusions reached in the other works of LaVey. I read those works and found that LaVey and I shared a similar perspective on the world, or picture of reality and human nature, and as a result I adopted a name which I feel defines me.

I did not know Dr. LaVey, he lives for me through his works, and through the stories and works of others who knew him.

I have been very interested in trying to draw the deepest possible meaning I could from those works, and I have also been interested in looking at as many of the influences and sources for LaVeyís work as I could.

Satanistís arenít really followers I think, but they may carefully choose teachers or advisers to assist them on their way towards real self awareness and clarity. LaVey is the teacher, the adviser.

Dr. LaVey was a very powerful magician and one can end up just being under the Lesser Magical power and influence of the man, rather than being an independently minded student.

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#40548 - 07/20/10 03:14 PM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: Meatl Gear]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1057
Loc: Amarillo, TX
I'll add my voice to this sentiment. I think it's downright creepy when people find some figure and fawn over that figure to the point where they imitate them in every respect and try to embody every nuance of what they say. Always think for yourself. The most dangerous thing is that figures who tell others to think for themselves are likely to become "surrogate thinkers" for those who like such an idea. Think of Ayn Rand and the creeptastic Objectivist cult, or the Church of Satan and "Sycophants Unite!" sentiment. Ironically, telling other people to be independent thinkers is a very effective manner for an individual to get others to think just like them.
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#40560 - 07/20/10 05:09 PM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: XiaoGui17]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3705
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I am like LaVey in the sense that I agree with his philosophical grounding, and resonate with his description of what it means to be a Satanist.

With that said, to parrot someone else and accept ideas on faith rather than research things myself and come to my own conclusions would be very much at odds with that description.

I know there are many CoS types that see LaVey as some sort of infallible black jesus and hold every last opinion he had on ANYTHING to be Satanic cannon, but I am not one of those. I do think he would have looked down on those sorts anyway
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#40570 - 07/20/10 07:32 PM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: Dan_Dread]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I am going to have to agree with Dan here. To be a Satanist is to be your own god, the master of your own universe; if you think that entails following someone else then you are missing the point.
There may be those whom you admire or would like to be like in certain ways but there is a line between admiration and imitation.
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#40584 - 07/20/10 11:03 PM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Gods-6-elements Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 7
I would slap the shine off his head, he don't know shit about no real devils and lucifer.
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#40605 - 07/21/10 05:31 AM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: Gods-6-elements]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3023
 Originally Posted By: Gods-6-elements
I would slap the shine off his head, he don't know shit about no real devils and lucifer.

The shine of his head.. didn't know LaVey gave light in the dark.

What makes you think there is a real devil?
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#40634 - 07/21/10 11:33 PM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: Gods-6-elements]
Clicks Offline
member


Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 114
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: Gods-6-elements
I would slap the shine off his head, he don't know shit about no real devils and lucifer.


Great application of English. In your other thread it was pointed out that you need to exercise an understanding of proper english here, whether it be a literature forum or not, as you made point of mentioning in your thread. Your wording here makes you seem sarcastic, even though it should be clear that you are not, still by reference of your thread.

Now, there is a common understanding here that there are no real devils, or a Luficer. You are free to express your opinions and ideas, but please do it in a more civilized and thoughtful manner.

Also, watch the one-liners.


Edited by Clicks (07/21/10 11:34 PM)
Edit Reason: Mention of one-liner.
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#40644 - 07/22/10 02:43 AM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: Clicks]
straif Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 20
I think it's useful to take bits and pieces of all types of thinkers, regardless of what religious or political affiliation they may have as nearly everyone has at least one thought that can benefit you. Of course it's up to us to pick and choose who we decide to listen to, but to completely follow one person is to stifle your own creativity. To completely follow anyone but yourself is death, really.
The Dalai Lama once said "be the change you wish to see in the world". Be who you want to be, mold yourself into the being you want.
It's ok to use the tools of Lavey, Plato, Freud, Nietzsche, Tzu, etc. to create who you want to be. I think the issue is that a lot of people use the tools to re-create the thinker within themselves, and that is were they get stuck.

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#40651 - 07/22/10 04:27 PM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: straif]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: straif
It's ok to use the tools of Lavey, Plato, Freud, Nietzsche, Tzu, etc. to create who you want to be. I think the issue is that a lot of people use the tools to re-create the thinker within themselves, and that is were they get stuck.


This is a very good point and also the reason why I generally shun all labels. Even if I may move pretty freely within whatever I label myself as I always end up feeling stuck somewhat. Sometimes in what I may try to be and sometimes in what others expect me to be.

My way of learning new things often involves a kind of faked support for whatever it is I read about. If I am studying Plato I try to be Plato and if I study anarchism I try to be an anarchist. Not in action necessarily but in though. Its a great method but sometimes I have to watch myself to not get stuck i previously traveled tracks and realize I have to find my own way. This all happens automatically for me - its the way I work.

In general I shun people who pick one philosopher or one book and try to justify their claim by quoting or referring to them. This to me is the first sign of close-mindedness. What impresses me is a broad knowledge and also signs that the subject in question has draw his or her own conclusions from the source material so it is not about just parroting someone else.

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#40653 - 07/22/10 05:29 PM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: TheInsane]
straif Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 20
Well put about drawing your own conclusions. I remember that when I first heard that Dalai Lama quote it was in class. The teacher wanted us to write about it, I wrote about how the world needs more people who are strong willed and say what they really feel and less people who advocate complete political correctness as this simply bring about weakening the general populous into complacency. I wrote about how it is ok to fix a wrong when someone has wronged you, and how this is the only true justice there is, when you look at the non-human world only the strong survive, by incorporating a "justice" system that does not work you harm the human's nature and since we can't "legally" do anything about it, you have more people who are unhappy with their lives, their jobs, which leads to compulsive behavior.
this teacher asked me to read the paper to the class as i was the only person who went off in a tangent in the complete opposite direction as everyone else.
Most students felt that since it was the Dalai Lama then he certainly meant something peaceful, while my general stance was to actually interpret rather than spew it back.

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#40670 - 07/22/10 10:36 PM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: straif]
jesusbeater Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Ireland
I think La vey was more about following ones own individuality rather than mimicking him, so in that way,I would be similar, but thats the point of Satanism, individuality over conformity.
In the late 60s and 70s communication was nothing like it was today so it was great to read a book(rather than a blog) where some one shared similar opposing ideas to the norm.It made you feel part of a community or a group. I think alot of people that call them Satanists don't even understand this very basic concept and try and emulate other senior Satanists and the message falls on deaf ears.
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#40727 - 07/23/10 10:06 PM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: straif]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
I remember a similar scenario. It must have been the first or second day of University for me several years back. I was studying religion and the very first thing we did was to have a discussion about "the core of religion". As usual, I sat silent and listened to what everyone had to say and the theories were many. Most common where the opinions that the actual core or religion was "God" or "love". And some tried to define these concepts as well.

And then after about an hour I decided to state my opinion after having listened to everyone. I basically said one sentence and it turned everything on its head. It might not be strange at a board like this but here it was. I said "who said there is a core at all?" or something along those lines.

My, then soon-to-be, professor smiled and said that this is what the lecture was all about - thinking outside of the box - and that I was the first one to do so. Everyone else that spoke their mind seemed bound by their own religious faith or the popular image of religion in general. SInce then I was the teachers pet because I never said what they expected me to say \:D

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#40870 - 07/26/10 06:51 PM Re: Anton Lavey - Do you try to be like him? [Re: TheInsane]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 145
Loc: NY
It's never a good idea to "follow" someone else's beliefs or philosophy. Either you naturally think like them or you don't. If you decide to change your ideals and live to be like them then you're denying who you really are and what you can accomplish.

A friend of mine is going through some hard times, emotionally. He asked if I could lend him the Satanic Bible. He read it years ago and although he agrees with some of it's content, he doesn't naturally live his life as a Satanist. At first, I was going to lend him the book but then I had to change my mind when I realized that he would only use the book as a temporary bandage for his wounds. Since he's in such bad shape it might do him harm since he'll be reading it from an emotionally charged state. He might try to change the person he is and make things worse for himself.

Also, I know someone who's busy trying to "be" someone else. It's no coincidence that he's an alcoholic and pothead. He's so busy trying to escape from who he really is and have people perceive him as something he's not, he doesn't know how lost he truly is.

Instead of trying emulate someone else, you should accomplish so much for yourself and become so powerful in the world that other suckers..um..I mean people, will try to emulate you \:\)
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