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#40823 - 07/25/10 01:08 PM Body Language
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I was wondering if anyone had any good resources for learning about body language. I've been attempting to study into it lately, but every resource I find seems to be a variation of "Fuck chicks by knowing body language." I've checked these out and got some information, but I don't believe it to be nearly enough. Can anyone here help me out?
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Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#40824 - 07/25/10 01:14 PM Re: Body Language [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
Amazon book sellers has a bunch of books on Body Language, that are supposedly based on scientific study. One would have to really comb through all the reviews to see which ones might be worth while. From what I gather the process of body language is not so much science as an art form.

I would be interested to know what Dr. Aquino has to say about body language since I believe that his background would qualify him as a good resource on deciding if its a worth while study.

One thing that a person could have to their advantage in studying body language books is that they would be able to fool people who try to read them through body language.
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"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#40826 - 07/25/10 01:20 PM Re: Body Language [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
On scribd there are several books to be found.
Here is one:

How to use body language

I have no idea if they are worth the read or not.

D.

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#40828 - 07/25/10 01:53 PM Re: Body Language [Re: Asmedious]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2522
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
I would be interested to know what Dr. Aquino has to say about body language, since I believe that his background would qualify him as a good resource on deciding if it's a worthwhile study.

PSYOP doesn't pay much attention to BL, because PSYOP is normally done to groups at a distance.

In Military Intelligence BL figures in interrogation, but just to the extent of indicating whether an individual is lying, i.e. evasion of eye contact, [excessive] nervousness, perspiration, hesitancy in answering - that sort of thing.

If you are trying to read a person's intentions in BL, I would recommend you talk with a good martial artist. An important part of that art is detecting what an opponent is going to do before he does it.

In matters of romance I am convinced that XYs are absolutely out of luck. The XXs have this down to a fine art; XYs are clueless about themselves and XXs.
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#40829 - 07/25/10 02:12 PM Re: Body Language [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
An interesting idea came to me recently while watching a TV program called LIE TO ME. I don;t know how feasible it is, but it's an interesting concept nonetheless.

The premise of the show is that Tim Roth plays Dr. Carl Lightman, a "deception expert" who can tell if someone is lying just from the way they blink or shuffle their feet, is based on the true-life experiences of Berkeley, Calif. psychologist Dr. Paul Ekman. He sees the little twitches and gestures that most people miss when speaking to someone and trying to deceive them.

Now, gamblers do this to some extent as well. Those little twitches and quirks are called "tells," and can be used to pretty much gauge what your opponent's hand's relative strength or weakness is. People spend years trying to weed these tells out of their expressions and their mannerisms. They wear sunglasses in the subdued lighting of a poker room so their involuntary dilations aren't noticed.

It would be an interesting experiment to get some of the greats of poker at a table, like Amarillo Slim, Doyle Brunsen, TJ Cloutier, and even throw in some of the tough young Turks, like Daniel Negranu, Johnny Chan, and Phil Ivey. Match them up against the skills of a recognized expert in the field of deception, such as Dr. Ekman to see if the practiced art of deception and "going blank" could be penetrated by the experts, or if their ability to mask their known tells would confuse even someone trained to spot them.
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#40830 - 07/25/10 03:06 PM Re: Body Language [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Lucifer Rising
I was wondering if anyone had any good resources for learning about body language.


Not exactly what you asked for, but soft of related - see Robert Cialdini's classic, "Influence". This is not specific to body language, but a more general "why people do the things they do". It may or may not be useful to you.
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#40832 - 07/25/10 03:40 PM Re: Body Language [Re: Asmedious]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
From what I gather the process of body language is not so much science as an art form.

Yes, but you can still study art and possibly improve your own through it.
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
One thing that a person could have to their advantage in studying body language books is that they would be able to fool people who try to read them through body language.

That is one of the reasons I would like to study it more.

Diavolo, I've went ahead and got the book you sent. I'm going to check it out at least.

Dr. Aquino, I may look into talking to a martial arts master about this topic. I have been searching for a mentalist to speak to with no luck as of yet. Also, I think that you are almost correct in your statement about the sexes. It is a far more natural ability in women to be able to read body language, however, they usually have little control over their own expressions of it. For most people, their awareness of body language is subconscious.

As Jake mentioned, poker players, majority being men, have learned to read body language for the purpose of knowing their opponents hands. They even take efforts to conceal their own "tells". You can bring it into the conscious and you can have at least some control over it. You also have a conscious understanding rather than mere "gut" reaction to it.

This is one reason witches scare the shit out of me, and entice me. If able to bring their abilities into the conscious, they'd have a great power with a skill greater than any man could possess. That would be sexy though, a woman with such magic at her fingertips.
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Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#40837 - 07/25/10 05:10 PM Witches [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2522
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Lucifer Rising
This is one reason witches scare the shit out of me, and entice me.

Trust me: They're better in bed. But romancing them does require some skill.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#40838 - 07/25/10 05:52 PM Re: Witches [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
 Originally Posted By: Mickey Mouse
Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself.


Priceless.
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Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#40842 - 07/25/10 07:53 PM Re: Witches [Re: Lucifer Rising]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Body language and how-to read it are best learned in the world and not from a book.

Go outside and practice.

~T~

Mickey Mouse is a registered member here? ;\)
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#40845 - 07/25/10 08:50 PM Re: Witches [Re: ta2zz]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz

Body language and how-to read it are best learned in the world and not from a book.

Go outside and practice.

Never thought of that. Of course I have been going out and practicing, but I see no reason not to seek the knowledge of others. There has been much I've been playing around with since starting school again and having a large group of fresh new people to practice with.

I agree with you, and perhaps it should be noted for anyone those that come through this thread that there is no substitution for real world experience. However, if somebody hasn't figured that out, what the hell are they doing here and why haven't they been kicked yet?
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Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#40856 - 07/26/10 02:42 AM Re: Witches [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
Reading body language is quite an step when mastered. There are a few books out there, but those will only handle the basics and even these basics eventually will fail when used in practic.
Every person is "unique", body language will differ from person to person. There are few aspects which will more or less follow a very thin line when it comes down to behaviour such as nervosity, love, hate, lying,...
Not only does the caracter of the person play a role in the use of body language, his/her looks also play a big role. Other things which should be taken into notice would be the awareness of the body language the person himself is emitting and is silently covering up.

I'd suggest taking the advice of Ta2ZZ. To master reading body language is learned outside and not from a book, for the reason as described above.
You wanted a book? -->
Borg, John. Body Language: 7 Easy Lessons to Master the Silent Language.
http://cogprints.org/4444/
Social Behavior and Personality Aboyoun, Darren C, Dabbs, James M Jr

Hint: sometimes wikipedia gives away references and works on which the article is based..
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#40862 - 07/26/10 06:36 AM Re: Witches [Re: Dimitri]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I'm quite the fan of this guy: http://derrenbrown.co.uk/
His book, "Tricks of the Mind" (Transworld Publishers 2007, ISBN 9781905026388) is a good read. Derren Brown is a debunker,hypnotist and mind reader who is so talented, it's scary! You may be able to catch some of programmes on line,too. His "Trick Or Treat" series is especially awesome. ;\)
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"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#40995 - 07/29/10 04:45 AM Re: Witches [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1126
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: Lucifer Rising
This is one reason witches scare the shit out of me, and entice me.

Trust me: They're better in bed. But romancing them does require some skill.


Oh dear, I loved that episode! As awful as the animation is, as cheesy and canned as the script is, and as painfully terribad as the premise of the show in the first place is, I can't help but love it! There's a wee bit of truth to it, too. Being "nice" just makes you look desperate, and desperation is the least attractive feature a man can possibly have. Aggression and dominance are attractive, unless of course it's posturing. Then it just makes a man look like a deluded jackass.

On the note of body language, there's actually many sub-categories. The body as a whole, the hands, the eyes, and the facial expression in general all tell something. It's also helpful to watch involuntary things such as pupil dilation. Changes in tone of voice are not "body language," per se, but very relevant, especially related to speech. Cold reading helps you fish for, and hook, information people may otherwise not have given up. And picking up subtle inconsistencies in a person's claims can be done even when you're not looking at them face-to-face. When two assertions don't click together, you know at least one has to be disingenuous.

As for learning to control one's own body language, that's an art all to itself. Giving someone an impression without using a single word is quite powerful. You can plant an idea in their head and they won't be able to realize what gave them that idea in the first place.
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#41013 - 07/29/10 11:31 AM Re: Witches [Re: XiaoGui17]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
I love Hades so much haha. I need to rent the Hercules cartoon sometime again.

I been attempting to type people as based on "The LaVey Synthezizer Clock" as found in his The Satanic Witch, but in a way of typing peoples body language ie, how 12 o'clocks differ from 6 o'clocks in their general state if that makes sense. I'm still studying this experiment.

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#41075 - 07/30/10 03:50 AM Re: Witches [Re: Lamar]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1126
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Lamar
I love Hades so much haha. I need to rent the Hercules cartoon sometime again.

I been attempting to type people as based on "The LaVey Synthezizer Clock" as found in his The Satanic Witch, but in a way of typing peoples body language ie, how 12 o'clocks differ from 6 o'clocks in their general state if that makes sense. I'm still studying this experiment.


12 o'clock stances: Hands on hips, thumbs hooked on pants, arms crossed, feet spread wide, direct and unflinching eye contact. All of these are dominant, aggressive postures.



6 o'clock stances: Holding one arm in the other, hair in eyes, leaning on one leg, tucking one foot behind an ankle while standing, thighs pressed together, knees slightly bent, chewing lip or fingers, fleeting yet frequent glances of eye contact, and lots of staring at the shoes. These indicate shyness and nervousness.



Generally speaking, you're going to see more erect posture the higher on the clock an individual is.
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#41105 - 07/30/10 02:41 PM Re: Witches [Re: XiaoGui17]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
This helps alot actually. Body language is something I'm going to start really examining and studying, as it is manifest in typing and cold reading as in my other thread. Thanks for this.
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#41309 - 08/02/10 05:04 PM Re: Witches [Re: Lamar]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Finally found time to respond here. You have been quite helpful. I've skimmed through and started reading the texts that were provided. There has been some useful information in them. I've also been looking into Derren Brown. I am quite impressed by what I've seen and have picked a few things up. Also, as suggested, I've tried to look more into cold reading.

It is all a bit overwhelming. It is not exactly my first study into these subjects, but it is probably my first in depth study of them. I'm also trying to remix the information, using visualization to try and think of the best ways to use the skills, how they might be combined, and hypothesize what results I expect. Results have been fair thus far. I definitely haven't mastered the skills yet, but they do seem to be having some effect.

Just to note, while I do tend to use LaVey's clock, when I do research such as this I prefer to put aside previous knowledge so I'm not tempted to try to make the information fit. It is not until after the new information is acquired that I investigate the old. It might need to be revised or possibly thrown out entirely if the new data contradicts it. So far it has worked well with the clock though.

Well I'm off again, I'll be lurking around still and posting if I have the time to post something of substance.
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Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#94252 - 11/17/14 07:40 AM Re: Witches [Re: Lucifer Rising]
G.Belbo Offline
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Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 18
Loc: Greece
I'll suggest the following:

1. What Every BODY is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent’s Guide to Speed-Reading People - Joe Navarro

2. Caro's Book of Poker Tells: The Psychology and Body Language of Poker - Mike Caro

3. Reading Poker Tells - Zachary Elwood
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#94296 - 11/18/14 10:55 PM Re: Witches [Re: G.Belbo]
mountaingoat Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 471
Loc: Colorado
I will second What Every BODY is Saying. It's a great basic foundation for body reading and behavioral analysis.
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