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#52132 - 04/03/11 01:02 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: mabon2010]
Caladrius Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
I am slowly looking at ONA, they have some sound philosophies even though I disagree with their direction.

Mythos, useful idea that I am borrowing for my businesses.

Mythos is useful if it is to draw a certain target group of people together, but is of no use if the path works towards splintering the group into the individual.


Mythos Mabon is useful in three important ways. The idea belongs to nobody. I'll use a quick example other than ONA you may also be familiar with: The Cthulhu Mythos. The original Mythos of Cthulhu first drew people who resonated with its "vibe" together. Then it inspired these people. Lastly from that inspiration came rites, common observances, shared ideas and world-models, and functioning organizations. Things that are the nucleus of a culture. Our best example of the Power of Mythos are the world's major religions which started off as mythos and over the centuries inspired and gave birth to cultures and "civilizations."

Even though Diavolo did a fine job answering your three questions; I'll just add on to his answers:

Myatt is a source of inspiration - and thus influence - to those he inspires; and beyond to those they in turn inspire. If those other people are other people at all. I met a scientist online who said that he was interested in genetically researching ONA members. After taking a blood sample from a general sampling, he discovered - and this is scientific proof - that they were all genetically David Myatt!

Usually when trying to figure out whose who regarding "ONA" mundane people that depend on internet information have their minds and convictions already set. From what I have personally learned over the years, it is easier to lie to a mundane and give them misinformation that tickles their egos and convictions, than to tell them the honest truth. There is a saying in Buddhism that goes: "You can't enlighten the stupid." Plus it's fun to mess with dummies.

The ONA isn't all about nazi and wiping out jews. There are many other fun things to do in the ONA besides those things. Such as Culling Mundane Common Stock People. Culling as in the actual word "culling" with its many uses and definitions included. For example you can breed a stock of undesired humans out of existence as cat and dog breeders would by not breeding with the undesirables.

Lastly, the raging fiasco at the other place, is nothing notable. It's just a raging lunatic who thinks he is ONA but yet is a Magian-lover. He's one of those individuals whose brains have been fried by the ONA as MF would put it \:\)


Edited by Caladrius (04/03/11 01:03 PM)
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#52148 - 04/03/11 10:12 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I am mundane, I am mundane more than most will care to understand, clever words and sinister complications have no place in the mundane cold hard reality which is nature — where ones determination, ones Will to Power is the law.

I have observed that it is required to pretend ones does not have violent propensity in order to gain respect and credibility among peers on this site, I have been met with those seeking closure asking me to "please stick to one story", instead I come as objector and critic of my own ideas formed from the same premises, showing a light and dark conclusion to let a grey holistic picture be formed. A facade of lies gets those who would deceive in such a way, well ahead. Those of us who are beyond good and evil and have trust in our nature to lead us through life receive ignominy because we label ourselves immoralist in others eyes, simply for not deceiving, and even before deeds are shown to define us, no matter how much compassion we have in our nature, we are deemed as more dangerous than or not to be trusted simply for being honest and forthright about our violent propensity. Anyone with a firm set of values, moral or otherwise, will compartmentalize in order to vent their own violent propensity that they do not understand, toward others, to blame others, they must justify this violence they feel because otherwise there is no value or sense for it in their moralistic world view, Christian, Satanist or otherwise rationalised psyche.

Those who consider themselves evil are often basing this assumption on personal feelings of power attained, derived, from the domination of others past and present, they will be conceited with a false sense of security and may be surrounded by cowards who will flee rather than come to their aid when their combined subjective shit that they have created hits the fan of reality. To those who have dealt with these people often, violence towards them is not exiting at all but predictable and unavoidable, such people are incommunicable and ought to be met with cold hard mundane violence as a wake up call. Yet more court trials and money to pay out getting there for all involved and really not worth it but as I said, unavoidable when somebody thinks they are a bad boy with special importance (a false sense of security).

All participants in GBH with intent end up confined to one address for over 2 years, on tag with no job, looking like a mug and facing 16 years in jail without being able to make any plans in life, having to dance for the Judge in court like a good little boy.

The ONA was always another something that I saw potentiality in, to be insidious toward being motivated to go beyond and look for the psychological motivations behind it. The ONA and Satanism in general is very Nietzschean insofar that it is contradictory to it's own ideas and has an opposite stance formed from the same premises.

I look for scientific or otherwise plausible explanations for ONA MSS just as one would toward other Dark Traditions, there are many denominations of sectarian Satanism that may have roots in actual psychological advantage. Les Apotres de l'Ignominie is one which appeals to me personally. Immoralist exposure will attract conceited and moralistic people to attack you and thus defining themselves suitable for retaliation as anyone who judges another without reason is asking for it. I apply extremism paradigms to develop theorem and not as an obsessional belief that one has special enlightenment or that one is mysteriously connected to cosmic emanations or whatever other Satanist may lead themselves to believe — those who believe their "ideas about reality" to be "actual reality".

I prefer to describe Satan as an impersonal "dark divine force" in and about nature that works through entropy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics which plays a part to create and destroy all matter, the phenomenon of irreversibility in nature. This is, to me, a major part of the nihilistic paradigm I derived from Chaos-Gnostic Ideology often called Anti-Cosmic Satanism, influenced by some principles made understandable by The Order of Nine Angles yet seemingly unpopular among many Satanist. The reason seems to be misconceptions about contemporary spirituality being in and about Anti-Cosmic ideology, when in fact existential nihilism polarised by design, seeking destruction of the ego and consciousness illusions, decimals below zero are not in anyway spiritual but exhalation of the dark unconsciousness which is very much mundane — in man is the verb of the Beast we cannot see nor hear, knowledge the senses cannot perceive, darkness that is clear in nature.

The Order of Nine Angles was always just another paradigm of Chaos Magick Theorem for which I used to polarise nihilistic negations of my own conditioning and is part of Satanic philosophy as a whole, working active nihilism to destroy and rebuild. Certainly there are darker forces at work in the psyche beyond the blackest inspirations derived from Satanism and the Sinister. Each time I would engage in deep study of Order manuscripts I would feel dissolution purify societal constructs and see the superficiality of things unfold. We must work back to nature and this is sometimes best achieved by going extreme against the grain of thought imposed by society.

With the aid of criminal psychology, a self styled Satanist ego similar to, but not limited to, that of a psychopathic ego can be cultivated. This however is not for me to engage in but to eliminate. Why? To be unconcerned with anything but personal honour is so very much more important as determination and Will to Power can only come from within and what is natural will guide the individual. Insight roles as an extremist might be harsh, exiting and enlightening to some, but there are some of us who could care less to waste time pottering in lifestyles we aren't serious about. After all you can't be homeless AND be a political extremist, you just won't be motivated to do anything but get your meal for the day, get washed and find some place to sleep.

One must have purpose in this world and fulfil this purpose before time runs out, and I feel time is passing rapidly, my days go by in a matter of moments, seemingly more so, the more I become aware. My purpose has not happened, being based on future and past events to encapsulate and bring into being this purpose. If this purpose is personal honour this is to see there is only one life for each of us, and when these lines cross there can be communication or hostility, whoever is afraid will make the first move out of nervousness to respond with calm deliberation and fortitude is a sign of tenacity and understanding, whoever will not make dialogue with a perceived enemy is cowardly and will be met with a conclusion of necessity upon his own attitude. Equality pathos is passive aggressive and superanthropic supremacy fantasies are a form of overcompensation stemming from inferiority complexes and social anxiety. These needs to impose upon and control others are the consequence of deed seated nervousness. Often the guy who thinks he's aggressive is actually nervous displaying sharp movements, loudness, dodgy eye movements and theatrical body language, instead of calm and silent deliberation. This extroverted compensatory behaviour shows a lack of internal control and instability.

But by acknowledging that we are mundane and equalised with the uncertainty of others propensity, we are alert and sharp in sobriety and very much down to earth as is the meaning of mundane. Without delusions of grandeur and compensatory hubris attitudes, instead with determined impulse of Will to Power always working in the background we learn impulse control and turn aggression inward to issue commands of discipline to ourselves. This with a purpose and determined attitude towards fatalism, one has sole responsibility for ones actions. A target is sometimes something simply to aim at.
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#53125 - 04/19/11 02:29 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Hegesias]
Caladrius Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
Speaking of 'O9A & Culling,' Richard Moult [Christos Beest of ONA] has just dropped a new album entitled "Celestial King For A Year."

The front cover features the Green Man. The inner liner contains an 'hitherto unpublished' 'Traditional Ceremony' in Ancient Greek. The album and brief description can be viewed: HERE.

The description is strange in that it openly - yet subtly - explains that the title of the album alludes to an old pagan rite of making "offerings" to the fields for the gods. Beesty Boy in the description uses an "ONA" term/word ["presence"] when he informs that his aim was to try and "presence a general 'pagan' sense of the sacred”.

With the use of the Green Man, him being around Scotland, the "theme" of being "King for a year," and making "offerings" in the fields to "pagan" gods, I am reminded of an old 80's movie called the "Wickerman" which I really like!

In the original one a police officer from the mainland is put thru some sort of test [like the ONA has tests for Opfers]. The tests leads him onto a weird island where he is eventually put into a big Burning Man type humanoid structure and burned alive so the island will have a better harvest.

It makes me wonder if pagans on the British isles in ancient times did practice human sacrifice similar to this? The only "pagans" I have come across are the usual New Age Revival type like those Wiccans.

From my limited research online, I have come across cases where certain pagan traditions of olden time did practice human sacrifice such as the rites/mysteries of Odin. Also the Roman authorities once stated that they outlawed the Druids because they practiced human sacrifice.


Edited by Caladrius (04/19/11 02:36 AM)
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#53127 - 04/19/11 06:10 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
Diavolo Offline
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There has to be some truth behind the "King for a year" ritual since it is preserved throughout culture in different manners.

Even here in a silly tradition like carnival, there is a prince carnival in ever town being prince for only that year. The carnival starts the 11th day of the 11th month, probably indicating to pagan roots like Samhain which split off in other rituals here like All Souls and St. Martin bonfires. It is not unimaginable they all share the same traditional root; the disguised, the death, and the fires for "suggested" offerings.

Down here there are findings suggesting towards human sacrifice and the Roman chronicles mention them but they had a habit of coloring up their stories to make themselves appear even more superior.

What happened here and elsewhere throughout these parts of "barbaric" Europe likely happened on the Isles too. There are even suggestions many of here migrated to the Isles during Roman conquest and if, they surely took their cultural habits along.

It's a vague subject to explore since all that is left is written down by "the enemy" and compromised as such, and all that is discovered is subject to human interpretation. But I don't doubt it was a part of these cultures, our ancestors surely weren't a lovely bunch spending all their time only drinking beer and rolling dice.

D.

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#53128 - 04/19/11 07:10 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
It makes me wonder if pagans on the British isles in ancient times did practice human sacrifice similar to this?


One of the few written accounts that might hint at such a practice is the eighteenth century account of John Sinclair who wrote about a tradition in Perthshore Scotland on the first day of May, where a lot decides which young man is to be the chosen one for a year.

This somewhat resembles a part of the complete esoteric ONA ceremony of recalling where the opfer is chosen a year in advance and is treated like a prince/king for a year before being sacrificed.

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#53129 - 04/19/11 08:26 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: SinisterMoon]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: SinisterMoon
[quote=Caladrius]

This somewhat resembles a part of the complete esoteric ONA ceremony of recalling where the opfer is chosen a year in advance and is treated like a prince/king for a year before being sacrificed.


Somebody's watched Children of the Corn one too many times.
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#53132 - 04/19/11 09:17 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Jake999]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Somebody's watched Children of the Corn one too many times.


Or perhaps somebody else is making an assumption based on a preconception regarding culling in general and/or in relation to a group such as the ONA \:\)

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#53134 - 04/19/11 09:31 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
The Wickerman is one of my favourites too, the re make is missing the stone faced Pagan character played by Christopher lee, his manners and total superiority over the foolish policeman, he was even compassionately accommodating, yet unshakable in his conviction to sacrifice the chosen one and you can see he was proud of what he is doing.

The remake is to be appreciated too, we still see a man burned alive by violence as pure as innocence. But also we can appreciate the remake if not for the nod to the film "Misery" where, what looks to be the very same actress that plays "Annie Wilkes", re enacts the ultimate scene where Annie Wilkes "hobbles" Paul Sheldon in the film Misery, yet again, we see a dispassionate breaking of legs, the torture of an incapacitated man all in hilarious fashion (repeat viewing material). Kneecaps busted with a mallet a la Misery style.

Let this also be a lesson among "Satanist": If you are to be set up or betrayed it will all be down to a "friend" Satanist who's letting you dig your own grave—mundane hubris shall be the soil that seals the burial. At least in my book there is a difference between those that envy and want to back stab what they covet, and those of us who are besickened by hubris, naivety and gullibility. Irony and satisfaction form alliance when one of these "people" is encountered. One must not only learn to love his enemies but also learn to hate his friends.

There is a question here: The conviction that drives the sacrifice in the tradition? Does the unconscious bloodlust not need to be formalised with irony and satisfaction? Is all egoistic appeasment denied in place of a satisfying belief that justifies the bloodlust, sadistic mindfulness results due to inexorable culmination.

Or is the sacrifice something to smile inwardly about all along with the belief only serving as an incommunicable barrier which seals the fate of the sacrifice?

Or would it be, the quickening of dark mental activity, polarising the ebb and flow of extreme stimulation, knowing that the victim is oblivious, mocking his very core with hospitality, priming his shock, conclusion besmear'd with blood for our appeasement, for our black mindfulness.

Maybe we need not formalise things around the limited media of words, which would only serve as a dim light of indication toward understanding something natural which is inexorably felt by some and devoid of presence for others.

Indeed, the torture and human sacrifice alleged in the blood libels run contrary to the teachings of Judaism insofar as contemporary scholars dismissing the Qliphoth traditions.

Other examples would be scholarly evidence that declares that YHWH commanded Abraham in the Binding of Isaac to sacrifice his son. But my favourite of all; Qayin the man sacrificer, the first murderer who was besickened by the hubris of his brother. An indelible mark was put upon Qayin, not a physical mark but the mark of a criminal and social outcast, misanthropist. Have the children of Qayin the accursed continued in the ways of their father offering sacrifice to receive acknowledgement of the Creator? surely this is merely a neurological desire to receive special favour stemming from passion, our passions can also be thought of as our untamed animal nature, be it manifested in ego, in belief that favour from a God? or simply to resonate with nature in affirmation that we resonate with nature most strongly when besmear'd with blood.

Humans will perpetually seek to formalise their bloody nature, in effect man seeks to tame himself as if this overwhelming inexplicably felt feral nature were too intense for him. And so man believes he has "improved" himself to live a life of avoidance, of contentment, a life filled with the promising plentitude of mediocrity.. Man regards the taming of an animal it's improvement and Nature turns her face from impulse to vomit.
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#53139 - 04/19/11 10:16 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Hegesias]
Diavolo Offline
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The mere idea of “human sacrifice” is almost offensive. It is an insult to everything we have become, overcome. It rationally and emotionally conflicts with us, we the modern man who has grounded his views firmly into reason.

It is indefensible and no rational argument can ever be provided to justify the advocacy or performance. It is insane, illegal and immoral.

But strangely and ironically, there lingers the very meaning; the essence and value of this specter and while it evidently haunts the many, that is exactly what attracts the few.

D.

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#53140 - 04/19/11 11:04 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
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I agree but for some of us we see those who dig their own graves all too much. It's not a matter of sacrifice but just an urge to smash their skull in disgust. The type of hero who is pretentiously modest, the solemn eyed conceited Christian, these people are infantile and smug about it. Let us not be modest, it's not alien to us at all to be on the verge of murder when encountering these inferiors, not because we look to cause them harm but because they impose their insultingly transparent personalties on us. I am generally sickened by hubris "good people" who assume their self deceit is fooling those around them, they equal the vulgar thug who would abuse women. Why? Because they assume superiority in their infantile transparency, both these representations of homo nullus are suitable for conclusion in my book.

It's all about revenge and personal honour. This is why I personally respect others intelligence, I know my own propensity too, and do not underestimate others. It's the ones who assume their petty and vulgar displays of power are actually worth anything except to mark them for revenge. Smug abusers of women who creep to their abused partner and family with tearful apologies, or smug "good people" who assume they are superior because they are cowards that can't fight, they who pat eachother on the back saying "there's nothing you could have done" consoling themselves because they know they'd also let their loved ones be harmed in dangerous situations, both are the same to me. I'd personally slaughter the worst of these hubris cowards if I weren't deterred by jail, many of us would.


I like how some Satanist talk about secret societies and magic when the horror of society is all around them, hidden by pretentious smiles and public family appearance. I don't think "sacrifice is the right word, vigilantism is a better word but who wants to risk jail for cleaning up the dross? Exactly, we all have to dance for the government and let the scum live a life of pleasure which we look at as pathetic and would never involve ourselves in.

I'll put it this way, a paedophile gets a free room in the jail house and then released with a new identity and special presents like a nice place to live. A murderer of a paedophile for some odd reason goes to jail for life as if his actions were somehow unnatural.

Then the courts will say "if mob justice was running rampant then innocent people would be killed" this says a lot about the governments faith in the peoples nature, I personally can't see a nation of dishonourable people and yet I'm misanthropic because I see a minority that potter with petty liberties taken over other's lives, filthy parasitism, religious asylum seekers and passive aggressive druggies and drunks who spread their parasitism all over the country. For example, a street thug is safe and protected by the law, he can go home in full knowing that his door is not going to be busted off it's hinges to receive a hammer to his skull. It's all quite nice for the dross to get their petty satisfaction on the outside and then go to jail to hide from the natural repercussions on the outside.
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#53141 - 04/19/11 11:27 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
Gueheriet Offline
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Registered: 12/11/09
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Human sacrifices on celtic society are described by several classic authors. The whole "Wicker Man" ceremony is extensibly described by Julius Caesar on his "Commentarii de Bello Gallico".


"The nation of all the Gauls is extremely devoted to superstitious rites; and on that account they who are troubled with unusually severe diseases and they who are engaged in battles and dangers, either sacrifice men as victims, or vow that they will sacrifice them, and employ the Druids as the performers of those sacrifices; because they think that unless the life of a man be offered for the life of a man, the mind of the immortal gods cannot be rendered propitious, and they have sacrifices of that kind ordained for national purposes. Others have figures of vast size, the limbs of which formed of osiers they fill with living men, which being set on fire, the men perish enveloped in the flames. They consider that the oblation of such as have been taken in theft, or in robbery, or any other offence, is more acceptable to the immortal gods; but when a supply of that class is wanting, they have recourse to the oblation of even the innocent."

Julius Caesar. Commentarii de Bello Gallico, Book VI, chapter XVI


Edited by Gueheriet (04/19/11 11:28 AM)

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#53142 - 04/19/11 11:58 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Gueheriet]
MindFux Offline
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Registered: 12/27/10
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Considering the Celts/Druids were long standing enemies of the Romans, one may want to be a bit careful when taking a Roman view of their 'barbaric' ways. It was very much part of Roman culture to label most of their enemies as human sacrificing monsters.

That's of course not to say that the ancient Celts didn't perform human sacrifice, just that other than these accounts written by the 'victors' (and as such unreliable secondary sources with regards to Celtic ritual at best) there is little primary evidence regarding the mores of ancient Celtic culture. We simply don't know all that much about what the ancient Druids got up to, because it was largely an oral tradition at a time when there was no written record.

Given the tradition was passed down mouth to ear, one has to wonder how exactly anyone figures they have a direct line to it given the last person that could have passed it on died several hundred years before anyone in this era was born. It is for this reason that I have an issue with the 'Neo-Drudic' movement, or anyone claiming to be a 'Traditional Pagan'.

So sure, Roman accounts are a source, but they are a bit of a sketchy source. It was in no 'classical authors'' interest to accurately describe the practices of the Druids honestly, and moreover, they had no access to that society. They couldn't just roll in there and ask them to tell them what they were doing in their own words. So all that we have is an outsiders perspective, with a smearing of poetic license and an overreaching political agenda. After all, Rome intended to 'civilize' the world. It would be hard to sell that to your populace if the world were already more civilized than you thought it was.

Stories of human sacrifice and weird rituals and barbarism would have been very effective in achieving the resultant political effect.

The fact is, we have absolutely no evidence beyond that account (and I believe 2 others like it) of a wicker man ceremony, and we have no evidence at all that a Roman actually witnessed this ceremony taking place directly.



Edited by MindFux (04/19/11 12:04 PM)

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#53144 - 04/19/11 12:14 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: MindFux]
Gueheriet Offline
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Registered: 12/11/09
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I agree with you on the sketchy second hand sources Caesar used to describe drudic customs and religion, but I wouldn´t say roman authors sistematically labeled their enemies as "blood thirsty monsters".
On Gournay-sur-Aronde and Ribemont-sur-Ancre´s excavations several proofs of human sacrifice have been found that seem to match with romans descriptions. The area was ruled by the Viromandui, a celtic tribe, and burned and decapitated bodies have been found on several ritual mounds.

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#53145 - 04/19/11 12:28 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Gueheriet]
Hegesias Offline
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Posts: 725
Megalomania accompanying sacrifice as in war, is usually accompanied by a belief that a god of the entire cosmos is favouring they "chosen" or "superior" race, group or individual above all others, an arrogant conceit. This mental illness called religion is profoundly prevalent among the human species, at the root of wars, religion is always the justification, despite claims by religious fanatics that Nazism and Communism were "godless" when a simple matter of science and rationalism being what differentiates the blood religion from the aeonically defunct ramblings of religiously supernatural metaphor. Communism is also admitted by Jewish authorities to be a Jewish creation. Will to power and religious justification go well together but we are beyond such things as religion, science being what will path the way with a strong will to power.

The Old Testament is a chronicle of human and animal sacrifice to an ancient king. The propaganda that the biblical peoples were "the chosen" and, therefore, everything they represented was "divine," the naive are not aware of the war declaration in the Old Testament, or of the gospel story serving as a record of a human sacrifice ritual based on a solar fertility cult.

Although many profess to be believers, relatively few people actually read the Bible and are thus ignorant of the blood smeared racism all about the "Good Book," which contains accounts of genocide. Holocaust is a word of Greek origin meaning "sacrifice by fire." The word "holocaust" originally derived from the Greek word Holokauston, meaning "sacrificial offering", or "a burnt sacrifice offered to a god". In the ancient Pagan rites, gods of the earth received dark animals, which were offered by night. The word "holocaust" was later adopted in Greek translations of the Torah to refer to the "olah", sacrificial burnt offerings that Jews were required to make. Nazi connotations with "Holocaust" became the contemporary meaning of the word.
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#53146 - 04/19/11 12:31 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Gueheriet]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I read about those discoveries and it supports human sacrifice could have been a practice of the Celts.

Most of our past requires one to enter the domain of speculative history which can be molded to anyone's liking since a written tradition was not present and Roman and afterwards, religious domination was quite drastically diminishing its odds of survival.

But it can be assumed the Celts were not the sweet nature lovers the neo-pagans tried to turn them into.

D.

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