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#121292 - 01/20/20 06:38 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: CanisMachina42]
Kori Houghton Offline
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Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 204
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: CanisMachina42
 Originally Posted By: wnasty
I see morality as completely subjective, and honour is more objective. Either you get it or you don't, but it's not synonymous with morality


Fairly easy to understand, but sometimes folk need an analogy. And you can use only 4 words to do so. How does honor trump morality?

Stand your ground laws.


But stand your ground is about individual, or personal, honor and self-respect while wnasty was writing about the ONA's "kindred honor". From what I've read, so-called kindred honor is about pack animal behavior. The examples cited in the ONA MSS are "outlaw" bikers, street gangs, and -- their favs -- Nazis. As in storm trooper bully boys and execution squads.
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#121293 - 01/20/20 11:10 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Kori Houghton]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 358
Loc: København, Denmark
To the militants for whatever cause, I offer:
Live by the sword, die by the sword. The pen is mightier.
Such a cliché lingers behind all that happens, unfortunately mocked by too many.

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#121294 - 01/20/20 11:27 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: aeon6]
Kori Houghton Offline
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Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 204
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
To the militants for whatever cause, I offer:
Live by the sword, die by the sword. The pen is mightier.
Such a cliché lingers behind all that happens, unfortunately mocked by too many.


Which is why representatives of the ONA who write about subjects other than politically incorrect violent behavior repeatedly get banned from commenting on blogs or posting in public forums. Even though the reps have NOT broken any rules, either for civilized written exchanges generally or for the blog or forum specifically.

I enjoy irony.
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#121295 - 01/20/20 04:30 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: aeon6]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
To an extent, if the rhetoric is compelling enough it becomes the propaganda of the day. It only requires the First Follower. Today's meme wars should be evidence enough of that.

Whatever your tribe/gang; it too can be culled in time. Culling can be both metaphorical and literal.

Thinning the pack occurs often. As you mature, attain more knowledge and experience; your lens expands. You put up with even less shit than you did in your youth.


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#121297 - 01/20/20 05:30 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 730
Being one's own parent and such.

Some cliches just feel more profound like a breath of fresh air when its felt rather than heard.

For example, not being too attached to someone else's emotional life, in my experience, is a sign of maturity.

If someone says something hurtful, there are at least a half dozen choices I can think of.

A.) I can ignore and not care.

This is a defense mechanism that seems to protect an individual's emotional life by refusing to recognize the existence of another's emotional life.

The motive for this kind of defense mechanism seems to be the fear that if one were to admit to oneself the valid existence of anothers emotions, that codependency might be a risk.

A false dichotomy. It often resulted for some kn a kind of self-hatred that would have fought against the very natural emotion of compassion.

The false belief underneath is the assumption that if you feel compassion, then you "must" act to enable the person who inspired that feeling.

Why that belief is false is that there's no contradiction in recognizing another person's pain, but objectively recognizing that helping that person might be impossible for a couple reasons.

1.) They might be scamming and only appealing to the ego in you, trying to make appeals to what you "should" do.

To recognize when that's happening ask yourself if you feel more ego than compassion.

An ego feeling is uncomfortable, but an act of compassion is satisfying.

That takes the burden of trying to analyze another person if it's only about recognizing ones own feelings, instead of just annoying someone else.

What that insistent questioning you might feel compelled to make against a person using the ego manipulative tactic is your compassionate heart asking for room to breath so that you can love that person the way that feels satisfying to you.

But of course that person wouldn't do that. They want something and the tactic isn't to manipulate you through compassion. That person recognized that "compassion" was their leverage because they weren't letting you breath like a human being. And so the compassionate person tended to give to the other for permission to breath and to feel like a good person again.

In such an instance one should recognize the leverage for what it is, and shift that compassionate perspective to yourself.

You have a right to breath, and that person wouldn't give up that leverage willingly, and that dynamic doesn't do anyone any good.

It's not about compassion or being a good person if its about leverage.

Compassion is a human expression that pays itself.

It doesn't need ego to reinforce that kind of behavior. The satisfaction of feeling human is compensation enough.

It feels like fresh air. And it's just as natural as breathing.

The feeling of compassion is a bigger priority than the leverage of a man or woman who would have drowned you. Meaning if you allowed that leverage to exist, than a genuine suffering human being wouldn't feel the benefit of love later, and that person using ego wouldn't learn humility.

If a person felt pride in manipulation, then let them earn it that way.

A person who would want to feel powerful rather than weak doesn't want your compassion anyway. Too much pride.

Either that pride would be broken, or redirected in humility, or reinforced by your choice in how you relate to that person.

Meaning that the compassionate choice would be not to insult a person's pride by pretending they want compassion.

Or if pride were only a secondary emotion, than saying no would cut through that layer and the humanity of both the person and yourself would be validated because compassion would have felt good.

If all that person might persist in appealing to ego, then ignore them. You would feel your own sense of compassion for your own humanity and that persons pride might cause that person to work harder to find food in some other way. In that instance it's the recognition of honesty that comes from recognizing that your path and theirs would travel separately.

It's a confusion in dynamics.

One wanted to feel human and compassionate, and the other wanted to feel proud and powerful.

That dynamic is toxic and helps no one.

Codependency I find is when a compassionate person would have found themselves surrounded by ego manipulators and that person's heart just wants to breath again.

The pathology of a codependent person it seems to me is just a human being with a loving heart just trying to breath again.

All that person would need to do would be to give themselves permission to breath and learn how to be rationally compassionate.

This has had the added benefit of letting others breath around me, since others suffered by looking for permission and me giving myself permission seemed to allow others to breath.

That's how dissociative compassion works in my experience.

Anyway, hope you're having a good day Sin3.


Edited by samowens84 (01/20/20 05:32 PM)

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#121299 - 01/21/20 05:38 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2146
Loc: Poland
What I find amusing is that one has the concept of culling in the Holy Bible as well. Separating the wheat from the chaff, sheep from the goats, the fig trees and grapes that bear the fruit from those that don't and the whole variety of agricultural parables that foretell the final judgement day. So much for the "Abrahamic religions and their bloopers." What's so characteristic of all those "original" and "innovative" schools of thought is that it's the same stuff only in a different package.

And while there is nothing particularly wrong with repackaging ideas, it's worse if they serve as a tool of control, which is what usually happens when the society has to find the new old ways to keep its members in line. Break our rules and be punished. Be it a threat of eternal damnation or the exclusion from the elite or even the death itself, whatever serves the purpose will do.

It's funny that many people don't see it. It's as if one angsty sheep ran away from one grazing field to another calling it "liberation."
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#121300 - 01/21/20 09:33 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
These concepts predate the Bible and are as old as man. It shouldn't be too shocking that they permeate all recorded record of human thought.



 Originally Posted By: SIN3
To an extent, if the rhetoric is compelling enough it becomes the propaganda of the day. It only requires the First Follower.


 Originally Posted By: Czereda
It's funny that many people don't see it. It's as if one angsty sheep ran away from one grazing field to another calling it "liberation."


What causes one Angst may be the field itself. Stepping away can liberate the mind from all the useless noise. Maybe one returns to it with a fresh perspective, maybe they burn it down and walk over the corpses.




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#121301 - 01/21/20 10:59 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: SIN3]
Kori Houghton Offline
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Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 204
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
These concepts predate the Bible


And the Old Testament in written form only dates back a bit more than 3000 years. Definitely more recent than the birth of urbanization.


 Originally Posted By: SIN3
and are as old as man.


That is quite a leap, and I don't think anyone can land it. But I am open to watching people try, of course.


 Originally Posted By: SIN3
It shouldn't be too shocking that they permeate all recorded record of human thought.


Another leap, although I might grant that urban humans, who never farmed or participated in herding/animal husbandry, are oddly fond of hickish platitudes to explain some of their understanding of social structures.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
To an extent, if the rhetoric is compelling enough it becomes the propaganda of the day. It only requires the First Follower.


And like all mutations, oftentimes the First Follower is all it attracts.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
It's funny that many people don't see it. It's as if one angsty sheep ran away from one grazing field to another calling it "liberation."


What causes one Angst may be the field itself. Stepping away can liberate the mind from all the useless noise. Maybe one returns to it with a fresh perspective, maybe they burn it down and walk over the corpses.


I spent a decade living rural where our property was surrounded on 3 sides by dairy farms. Never got a good explanation for why dairy cows persistently test the electrical activity in the low fences that surround their pasture, but they do. And if there is a failure, many in the herd will be over the fence after a few of them butt it flat enough to step over. Unfortunately for the cows, some common shrubberies are lethal to them, so the farmer has to retrieve them before they decide to sample the suburban-style foliage buffet and cark it in your yard. Luckily, cows have an urge to explore, and usually wanted to get inside the house before investigating potential food sources in the yard. A full grown dairy cow butting your front door shakes the whole building!
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#121302 - 01/21/20 01:23 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Kori Houghton]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 358
Loc: København, Denmark
Sounds like the Trojan horse of cows. I always thought those charged fences were both unnecessary and cruel. My aunt has a small dairy and agriculture farm and never used them. The hint was taken from Swiss alp cows whose only constrictions are the bell around neck. Their Pavlovian nonreflex to their bells, likewise conditioned, should make dogs feel like salivating over more important things than eating them asap. Thanks for the apt analogy.
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#121304 - 01/21/20 03:55 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2146
Loc: Poland
I'm not saying it's shocking but that many fail to see the parallels, which should serve as a red light.

Changing one type of useless noise for another hardly gives a fresh perspective. If one abandons the belief in one rhetoric only to start following another, one is still a follower; the one who can't tell the difference between the rhetoric and the fact and thoughtlessly uses the ideologically flavored vocabulary. The rhetoric is NOT a fact. Those who believe in the existence of "mundanes", culling, codes of honor etc might as well shake hands with creationists, who think of the Flood and Noah's Ark as a historical fact and not as a narrative serving a specific purpose.


Edited by Czereda (01/21/20 04:00 PM)
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#121305 - 01/21/20 04:17 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Czereda]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 358
Loc: København, Denmark
Collecting gems, fossils and experiences goes beyond animal, vegetable or mineral. That's what was said about Björk when she burst out of Reykjavík's shadows and forged a niche, however tacky. Bible parables were built for the servile masses who made convenient and hypocritical sex occassions to procreate, we know that is not the sole reason they indulged. What I myself cull are mostly intangibles.
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#121306 - 01/21/20 05:40 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Kori Houghton]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7210
Loc: Virginia
Ummm you do realize there are texts that the OT is based right? That every civilization with a written record has similar concepts?

Probably not, I digress...

I don't care where you've lived, or what you believe. Culling has always been present. Anton LaVey repackaged it as stratification.

Once again I over estimate the crazy cat lady. You're not even a good Catholic. FFS
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#121307 - 01/21/20 05:52 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: SIN3]
Dark Light 444 Offline
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Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 401
Welcome back SIN3.
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#121308 - 01/21/20 06:56 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2146
Loc: Poland
Not sure if it's such a bad command of English on my part or you deliberately ignoring what I'm actually saying. And that is about people failing to see the parallels between the ONA and other religions and philosophies, including those they reject and despise.

Culling in the sense you see in the MSS has never existed just like the class struggle in the sense the fans of Marx used never existed. These are the artificial language constructs that aim to reinterpret the reality in a specific ideological way. It's the rhetoric.

To say culling has always existed would imply that every random slaughter in human history had, like in the case of farm or wild animals, the higher aim of segregating and improving the whole population. That it was something systematic and organized while human conflicts are by nature mostly random and chaotic. Unless we want to play Nazis or communists, history cannot be interpreted in such a simplistic manner.

I don't expect you to care about where I live or what I believe. Have you just logged in to tell me that or what? Spare yourself statements that have nothing to do with what I said.


Edited by Czereda (01/21/20 07:00 PM)
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#121309 - 01/21/20 06:58 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Dark Light 444]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
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No shit, I was about to note that God Emperor Trump's valkyrie has again graced the unworthy peasants with her presence.
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