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#41061 - 07/29/10 11:17 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: Caladrius]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
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For the good of the cause, I would propose that we lock/delete this thread and carry on in the original thread. I will be posting my much anticipated response in short order.
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#41276 - 08/02/10 03:09 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: Raffy]
SODOMIZER Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Raffy
The personal character of a new hybrid - a new type of human personality - that is the not only the essence of the ONA (for whom culling is a viable personal option) but the essence of all satanists everywhere, however they may describe or align themselves, and for whom the expression feel beyond the words has a personal meaning born out of their own direct experiences.


To me, this is the essence of Nietzsche's superman:

A new, more evolved kind of human.

We cannot educate ourselves to be smarter than we are; we need to develop new abilities that we can pass on from generation to generation.

Our feelings and instincts are hardwired into us, and there's no way to change those except through evolution -- as Nietzsche was fond of emphasizing.

So now we have a species awash in consumerism and the bad life decisions of many individuals; we either choose to evolve so this isn't the case, or we (the few) try to police the many as they make bad and destructive decisions.

If it were a field of corn, you'd have no problem with it. Yank the weak and sociopathic ears, the passive aggressives, and the dumb or unhealthy ones. Then take that seed corn and make a new generation.

In some time, you'll have a new species, just like many of the heirloom seeds we see in heirloom seed catalogs. Specific farmers developed these over the course of their lives, and left us plants with new abilities -- better abilities. Meatier fruit, hardier, etc.

Why not do the same to humanity?

Isn't it the height of pretense to think we're anything but another animal or plant?

We are not gods, we're mice. Smart bipedal mice. And if we're really self-aware/self-actualized, we'll have no problem turning our powers toward ourselves, and making ourselves better.
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#41305 - 08/02/10 04:54 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: Raffy]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I originally wasn't going to respond to this, but what the hell.

 Quote:
Yet again you are making assumptions and generalizing - there is no general definition, because it's up to each person to arrive at their own conclusions based on their experiences and on their character.


Oh really, am I? well according to the ONA guide "How to be a Satanist":

 Originally Posted By: "How to be a Satanist" Stage Two - Living Satanically

Living Satanically is simple, and involves:
1) Regarding, and treating, all mundanes (all who are not your pledged Satanic brothers or sisters) as the enemy.


And according to "The Three Fundamental Principles of Satanism"

 Quote:
1) Those who are not our Satanic brothers or sisters are mundanes.

3) A person becomes our brother or our sister by making The Pledge ofSatanic Allegiance and by living by our Code of Sinister-Honour.


It appears that I have not mistaken anything at all. According to this, and your previous posts anyone who does not take some stupid oath and live by a "code of sinister honour" they are a "mundane" and therefore should be "culled" or at the very least ruled over by those who are part of this brethren.

I am not and have no desire to be a part of your brethren, the people in my life who matter to me are in the same boat, I'm sure. Now we have a problem. You are directly advocating the enslavement and possible killing of myself and the people I care about. That is all there is to it; there is no need to "feel beyond the words" or any such non-sense.

[quoteBecause in the real world - the hard world, the world of direct sinister experience - it is "us and them".[/quote]

Yes, you have made it "us vs them" - "us" being me and mine and "them" being you. And now we have come full circle. Do you practice what you preach? Could you? Or does this just make you feel like a bad ass?
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#41307 - 08/02/10 04:59 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
SODOMIZER Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
According to this, and your previous posts anyone who does not take some stupid oath and live by a "code of sinister honour" they are a "mundane" and therefore should be "culled" or at the very least ruled over by those who are part of this brethren.

I am not and have no desire to be a part of your brethren, the people in my life who matter to me are in the same boat, I'm sure. Now we have a problem. You are directly advocating the enslavement and possible killing of myself and the people I care about.


I feel similarly. Here's a possible exception: I think (but am not certain) that they may mean, by Satanic brotherhood, "all other people who understand this moral code." If that's the case, I'm mostly cool with it, although I still think it's bad wording.

Then again, many of the ONA texts and books need a good hard editing.

To my mind, the people who are throwing litter out of cars, always buying dumb products and voting for lying politicians, etc. are the ones that we should call "mundanes" -- they are the people whose choices make life worse.

I don't really care if they're Christian, Satanist, Atheist or even Chthulhuian (heh) as long as they're realists underneath it all.
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#41310 - 08/02/10 05:11 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: SODOMIZER]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I feel similarly. Here's a possible exception: I think (but am not certain) that they may mean, by Satanic brotherhood, "all other people who understand this moral code." If that's the case, I'm mostly cool with it, although I still think it's bad wording.


I will refer you to the post to which you just responded; wherein I quote, from ONA material, the criteria for being part of the brethren; someone who has taken the "Pledge of Satanic Allegiance" and living by their code of honor.

If it were simply a matter of understanding then anyone could be a part of this brethren and no one could be considered to be "mundane" as long as they were able to understand the code of honor. I'm fairly certain that is not a matter of understanding but acceptance, adherence and obedience.

I wouldn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance in school, I wouldn't even stand up for it and I certainly won't pledge my allegiance to any group or organization simply because they demand it and threaten me if I wont.
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#41311 - 08/02/10 05:19 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
SODOMIZER Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
If it were simply a matter of understanding then anyone could be a part of this brethren and no one could be considered to be "mundane" as long as they were able to understand the code of honor. I'm fairly certain that is not a matter of understanding but acceptance, adherence and obedience.


I think as long as they understand/act by the content of this code, it shouldn't be a problem. Assuming that everyone has been exposed to it wouldn't make sense however, nor is requiring that they conform to the "branded" code. The behavior and understanding should be enough.

To a philosopher, however, there's an inherent paradox in rejection any allegiance or codes: saying "I accept no codes" is a code, and claiming that it's derived from the self makes as little sense as insisting that free will exists. In the same way, saying "we will have no laws" becomes a law immediately, with correspondingly chaotic results.
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#41314 - 08/02/10 05:23 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Apion Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 18
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

 Originally Posted By: "How to be a Satanist" Stage Two - Living Satanically

Living Satanically is simple, and involves:
1) Regarding, and treating, all mundanes (all who are not your pledged Satanic brothers or sisters) as the enemy.



Hah. It seems becoming a Muslim was not past Myatt.

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#41315 - 08/02/10 05:52 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: SODOMIZER]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I think as long as they understand/act by the content of this code, it shouldn't be a problem. Assuming that everyone has been exposed to it wouldn't make sense however, nor is requiring that they conform to the "branded" code. The behavior and understanding should be enough.


Well acting by this code is going to be a problem

 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour

Our sinister-honour means we Satanists are fiercely loyal to only our own kind– to those who, like us, have taken The Pledge of Satanic Allegiance. Our sinister-honour means we are wary of, and do not trust – and often despise – all those who are not like us, who are not of our own fearsome dark Satanic kind.


I am not going to show loyalty to someone simply because they recited the same prepared words as I did and cut their finger with a knife. Loyalty, much like respect, love and indeed, hatred, is reserved for those who have earned it. That would be like expecting me to be loyal to someone simply because they listen to the same kind of music. By that same token it is also as stupid as expecting me to distrust or despise someone simply because they don't like the same music as me. What's next, am I to be expected to hate anyone who isn't the same skin color, sexual orientation or religions as me?

 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour

Our duty – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister-Honour – is to be ready, willing, and able to defend ourselves, in any situation, and to be prepared to use lethal force to so defend ourselves.


This one I don't have a problem with.

 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour
Our duty – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister-Honour – is to
be loyal to, and to defend, our own Satanic kind: to do our duty, even unto death, to those of our Satanic brothers and sisters to whom we have sworn a personal oath of loyalty.


I have the same problem with this that I had with the first one. I am not going to die for someone simply because we have something in common. Much like I am not going to defend my neighbor with my life simply because we live on the same street. This loyalty and dedication has to come from something much more important to me.


 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour
Our obligation – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister-Honour – is to seek revenge, if necessary unto death, against anyone who acts dishonourably toward us, or who acts dishonourably toward those to whom we have sworn a personal oath of loyalty.


While I have gotten revenge against those who have wronged those I care about I also think it is best if other people fight their own battles sometimes. AND my friends and family, as much as I love them, are not perfect, they are not always right and sometimes they deserve the things that happen to them.


 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour
Our obligation – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister-Honour – is to never willingly submit to any mundane; to die fighting rather than surrender to them; to die rather (if necessary by our own hand) than allow ourselves to be dishonourably humiliated by them.


This one I also don't have a problem with. I would rather fight and die than willingly submit to anyone who considers me "mundane".

 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour
Our obligation – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister-Honour – is to never trust any oath or any pledge of loyalty given, or any promisemade, by any mundane, and to be wary and suspicious of them at all times.


This is just silly and bordering on paranoia.

 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour
Our Satanic duty – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister- Honour – is to settle our serious disputes, among ourselves, by either trial by
combat, or by a duel involving deadly weapons; and to challenge to a duel anyone – mundane, or one of our own kind – who impugns our Satanic honour or who makes mundane accusations against us.


Okay...so who is up for a duel? Since I am the challenger I get to pick the weapons and I choose pistols at dawn.

 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour
Our Satanic duty – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister-Honour – is to settle our non-serious disputes, among ourselves, by having a
man or woman from among us (a brother or sister who is highly esteemed because of their Satanic deeds), arbitrate and decide the matter for us, and to Satanically accept without question, and to abide by, their decision, because of the respect we have accorded them as arbitrator


That is funny sounding and uses the word "Satanic" and "Satanically" as if they are adjectives with real meaning behind them. This is just like saying that we all should rely on the courts to settle our disputes for us and accept their decision based on the authority bestowed upon them by their Judicial deeds. While I have no real problem with this on, per se, it still sounds like a stupid joke to me. Oops, looks like I might have to participate in two duels tomorrow.


 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour
Our Satanic duty – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister-Honour – is to always keep our word to our own kind, once we have given our
word on our Satanic honour, for to break one’s word among our own kind is acowardly, un-Satanic, and mundane, act.


I think all people should keep their word no matter who they give it to. Don't make a promise that you can't or don't intend to keep.


 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour
Our Satanic duty – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister- Honour – is to act with Satanic honour in all our dealings with our own Satanic
kind.


This is just another way of expecting people to show loyalty at all times to someone simply because of a shared philosophy. Redundant and ridiculous.


 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour
Our obligation – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister-Honour – is to marry only those from our own kind, who thus, like us, live by our Code and are prepared to die to save their sinister-honour and that of their brothers and sisters.


If I ever decide to do something so stupid as to get married it will be to whomever I want.

 Originally Posted By: The Code of Sinister-Honour
Our duty – as Satanic individuals who live by the Code of Sinister-Honour –
means that an oath of Satanic loyalty or allegiance, once sworn by a man or woman of Satanic honour (“I swear on my sinister-honour that I shall…”) can only be ended either: (1) by the man or woman of Satanic honour formally asking the person to whom the oath was sworn to release them from that oath, and that person agreeing so to release them; or (2) by the death of the person to whom the oath was sworn. Anything else is unworthy of a Satanist, and the act of a mundane.


This one really only applies to people who have already accepted these codes and as such does not require a comment from me.

There are a few of these that I agree with but for the most part I can not and will not live by this code. Is it acceptable to only live by certain parts of the code, but not others or to live by some of them some of the time but not others? If one can pick and choose what to follow and when then there is no choice in having a code in the first place. Therefore it seems logical that one is expected to live by these at all times, anyone who does not is a mundane and is to be killed or ruled over by those who do live by this code. Again this is a big problem, and from what I have read so far, one that can only be solved with violence.
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#41320 - 08/02/10 06:24 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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 Quote:
Again this is a big problem, and from what I have read so far, one that can only be solved with violence.


Or it can all just be ignored without further consideration, since I seriously doubt that most members of ONA have any realistic ability that might impact negatively on my “mundane,” life in the real world.
As for the threat of possible violence, heck I’m old enough, seen and experienced enough that being “Culled,” doesn’t offer much of a threat.
So I’ll be on the look out for some fat geek dressed in a Ninja suit, swinging a pair of Numchuks (sp) down on main street.
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#41321 - 08/02/10 06:27 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: Asmedious]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Make no mistake about it, I do not fear the ONA coming for me in my sleep any more than fear Al Qaeda or Freddy Krueger coming for me in my sleep. I am simply voicing my disagreement and the reasons for it.

Edit: but in the highly unlikely event such a thing does happen I will not stand for anything other than total annihilation of those who would annihilate me.


Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (08/02/10 06:29 PM)
Edit Reason: Marked
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#41322 - 08/02/10 06:31 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: Asmedious]
SODOMIZER Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 61
What I like about the code is that it's geared toward founding a civilization. In this current civilization, at least in North America, we're expected to defend/tolerate each other because we share a political creed.

Under the ONA model, we're expected to unite on the basis of shared values, which I find more plausible than political creeds. I don't think I believe half the horseshit in the Constitution, and definitely not the even more vapid stuff that's come after it. Still, I might defend this place because of the many good people here.

And as the saying goes, if you think someone is good, it's most likely because you see yourself in them -- usually shared values or outlook on life.
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#41323 - 08/02/10 06:31 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
This whole code of sinister-honour reeks of religious extremism. I think it's bullshit. I dare somebody with this mentality to ever approach me as inferior and threaten my life. You are not "better" than me simply because of your "pledge allegiance to satan." And what the fuck...pledge allegiance to satan...what, is this Halloween? Seriously. Somebody already mentioned it above, it's just like the Muslim religion. In my oppinion if I ever had it my way, religion in general would be illegal outside of your home for this reason. I believe in freedom. No one is going to tell me what or how I should believe, and certainly I will not be threatened for not believing a certain way. Put up or shut up if we ever crossed paths.
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#41324 - 08/02/10 06:33 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: Asmedious]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
I know it sent chills up and down my spine. Yep.

I particularly liked the dueling clause. I choose weapons. I'll take my M16 and a thumper. You get a brick.

Seriously though, most of this is about as "sinister" as the pledges taken by some of the Greek Geeks on Fraternity Row. A mixture of bold bravado and cold sweat relief that the chances of ever having to put their ass on the line is slim. Hyperbole and posturing.
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#41325 - 08/02/10 06:33 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: Lamar]
SODOMIZER Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Lamar
In my opinion if I ever had it my way, religion in general would be illegal outside of your home for this reason. I believe in freedom. No one is going to tell me what or how I should believe, and certainly I will not be threatened for not believing a certain way.


And what would a society look like if it were ordered on this principle, of "freedom" (freedom from what, we might ask)?

My supposition: like all anarchist societies, it would break down and become a marketplace. People do what's most convenient, and that's buy stuff, have fun, and ignore what they should be paying attention to.

If a society like this took over North America, you'd be speaking Russian or Chinese within the decade, and the order the Occupiers would force on you would be quite strict compared even to the ONA one.
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#41328 - 08/02/10 06:59 PM Re: Culling - An Explanation [Re: SODOMIZER]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Under the ONA model, we're expected to unite on the basis of shared values, which I find more plausible than political creeds.


And what is political creed other than a set of shared values?

Me, I like the Constitution. Not because it guarantees us any rights but because it promotes the rights I would feel entitled to had the document never even been written. I have no desire to put my life on the line for this country or the people in it simply because we are "on the same team"; which is exactly why you don't see me in the military, shooting at people in some far off land who pose no real threat to me. However, if one of those people were to come here, to my house and start shit they would have a fuck-ton of lead flying their way.
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