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#41264 - 08/02/10 09:17 AM What is Total Economic Value?
Lucius600 Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 28
Loc: USA
When making an attempt to calculate the total value of the entire planet in real-time, one falls short only in instrument. It's not that the human mind cannot imagine what the total value of the entire planet would be at any given time in history or the future. Once you present a quantified value package of what the earth was valued at a past time the true value has changed during and after value present ion. The only issue with calculating is in the calculator not being able to true present "it's" own total value at the actually time of it's own existence.

We as a people, as a whole would has to build a calculation-machine so grand in scale we would has to edit the total value of the total economy just to create a calculator capable of calculating itself. Now we know this is nearly impossible because not everyone agrees on a total quantity of joy or sorrow.

How would a machine be able to calculate the value of a human home? Well as of yet their is no machine that has the awareness available to be aware of where home even is. And once this total economic calculation machine is created and triangulates it's own location of home-base, where in the universe is that going to be? Is it going to be grounded here on earth, up in the communication-network in the sky, or in the galactic consciousness?

Let us not question the total value of the total value calculation-machine because it's value would most likely be infinite in application of joy or sorrow but that is yet to be seen because total assembly of the machine is as of yet not material. When we get angry at the governments for not being able to show the total value of the work being produced we are actually getting angry at ourselves because we would have to quantify the value of Love & hate. If we quantify the value of those two spiritual locations withins we must take a look at the very nature of ourselves.

If there are something like 6,500,000,000 people on the planet right now, how many or those are living, dieing, and being born at any given time at any location on the planet. And when you calculate the total value of the planet do you include all humankind or do you exclude some? If we built a calculation-machine and it became aware or it's true home, which would be at no other location than everywhere in and possibly throughout the entire expanse of consciousness?

How would you even quantify the value of the power of this knowledge? Would it be infinite or would their be a quantity of time the value would be valuable? There may not be an answer to these questions until we find the quantum mechanism of consciousness. Where could consciousness be located but throughout the entire universe?

So the real-time problem of calculating total economic value of the entire planet Earth is in the calculator not the calculation. The calculator is an object with a subjectively programmed objection of calculation. In order to calculate the total economic value of the entire planet in real-time subjection one would first have to program the calculator to calculate the total economic value. If you cannot use any currency to calculate the total economic value of an object such as the Earth then there will be no current calculation.


Edited by Lucius600 (08/02/10 09:50 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#41266 - 08/02/10 10:50 AM Re: What is Total Economic Value? [Re: Lucius600]
TV is God Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
Okay you're making my brain hurt here.

 Originally Posted By: Lucius600
When making an attempt to calculate the total value of the entire planet in real-time, one falls short only in instrument.

And why exactly do you want to? Is the idea here to get a big picture so you eliminate local economy so money is of a whole-world absolute value? Your motive isn't clear but that's my best guess. If so stop and think if this is really a good idea.

 Quote:

It's not that the human mind cannot imagine what the total value of the entire planet would be at any given time in history or the future.
What do you mean? I couldn't even begin to figure how much matter is on this planet let alone what a chunk of it is worth. What do you mean by "value" here anyway?


 Quote:

Once you present a quantified value package of what the earth was valued at a past time the true value has changed during and after value present ion.

Am I stupid or crazy for having no idea what you're trying to say here? How exactly do you calculate the "value" of a past time? Economic value? You mean to know how much money there was in the world? But you go on to talk about the value of life and the value of things. How do you expect to do this?

 Quote:

The only issue with calculating is in the calculator not being able to true present "it's" own total value at the actually time of it's own existence.

So you're saying there's no issue in creating a "calculator" that somehow scans the entire world (apparently past, present, and future) and makes a master list of how much money everything is worth but it'd have problems scanning itself? Even if we could build this completely impossible calculator why would it have a problem scanning itself? The whole idea makes no sense at all.

 Quote:

We as a people, as a whole would has to build a calculation-machine so grand in scale we would has to edit the total value of the total economy just to create a calculator capable of calculating itself. Now we know this is nearly impossible because not everyone agrees on a total quantity of joy or sorrow.

I can't see why we as a people "has" to do anything. Are you saying that as a human being you have the duty to achieve a one-world economy? Again stop and think if this is even a good idea. As a human being I don't "has" to do anything.
And what's this about the "total quantity of joy and sorrow"? Are you saying we have to figure an economic value of human emotion? That just doesn't make sense.



 Quote:

How would a machine be able to calculate the value of a human home?

Well if you have the designs of a home you can get a figure of how much of each material used to build the home and you can see how much each material is being sold for if that's what you're getting at. But again it's not easy to figure out what it is you're getting at.
 Quote:

Well as of yet their is no machine that has the awareness available to be aware of where home even is.

What? What the hell do you mean? Are you talking about the machine having a home? Are you saying a robot can't know where it lives?

 Quote:

And once this total economic calculation machine is created and triangulates it's own location of home-base, where in the universe is that going to be? Is it going to be grounded here on earth, up in the communication-network in the sky, or in the galactic consciousness?

Ok. Brain is hurting. Why is it significant for this machine to consider where it's located as a "home" and why is it important where it's located in the first place? I mean this machine is already a completely impossible idea but if it were possible I'm sure that its location would be based on technical details.

And galactic conciousness? You mean a god?

 Quote:

Let us not question the total value of the total value calculation-machine because it's value would most likely be infinite in application of joy or sorrow but that is yet to be seen because total assembly of the machine is as of yet not material.

First you were saying the calculator had to figure out how to value itself. Now you're saying it doesn't because it's.. infinite... in application of joy or sorrow? What the hell does that mean? Out of everything you've said that makes no sense this has to be the pick of the litter.

 Quote:

When we get angry at the governments for not being able to show the total value of the work being produced we are actually getting angry at ourselves because we would have to quantify the value of Love & hate.

Tell me what love and hate have anything to do with production? Considering most governments are based on private production I can see why they can't make a big list of everything made. And for that matter who the hell is angry at not having this list?
And we're angry at ourselves for not knowing the 'value' of love and hate? Again, what does that have to do with production and why is it important at all?

 Quote:

If we quantify the value of those two spiritual locations withins we must take a look at the very nature of ourselves.

Love and hate are emotions. Emotions are psychological influence of chemicals in your brain. There's no "spiritual locations" there is a physical location inside your skull. The idea of "quantifying" emotions just plain doesn't make any sense. As for looking at the nature of ourselves it's what psychologist, anthropologists, sociologists, biologists, neuroscientists, philosophers, and many others have been doing for a long time now.

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If there are something like 6,500,000,000 people on the planet right now, how many or those are living, dieing, and being born at any given time at any location on the planet. And when you calculate the total value of the planet do you include all humankind or do you exclude some?

You mean get a total population? Why? Also why would you exclude some?

 Quote:

If we built a calculation-machine and it became aware or it's true home, which would be at no other location than everywhere in and possibly throughout the entire expanse of consciousness?

Before you were asking where to put the impossible machine but apparently you've figured that out now. It would be everywhere in the expanse of consciousness. What does it mean? Oh hell why even ask. It means NOTHING AT ALL.

 Quote:

How would you even quantify the value of the power of this knowledge? Would it be infinite or would their be a quantity of time the value would be valuable? There may not be an answer to these questions until we find the quantum mechanism of consciousness. Where could consciousness be located but throughout the entire universe?

More babbling nonsense. The quantum mechanism of consciousness? Consciousness located throughout the entire universe? Are you talking about your impossible calculator having consciousness or do you really just not understand that human consciousness is a result of chemicals and electricity in that ball of grey matter in people's skulls?

 Quote:

So the real-time problem of calculating total economic value of the entire planet Earth is in the calculator not the calculation. The calculator is an object with a subjectively programmed objection of calculation. In order to calculate the total economic value of the entire planet in real-time subjection one would first have to program the calculator to calculate the total economic value. If you cannot use any currency to calculate the total economic value of an object such as the Earth then there will be no current calculation.


I'm having a difficult time extracting any kind of point in that paragraph there. So you're saying calculating economic value is just a step toward some kind of ultimate value? Why do you think there is some kind of ultimate value? Thing are as valuable as you value them, it's completely subjective. You're proposing that a given object (or even joy or sorrow you seem to think) has some kind of objective value? Based on what?

Your post is about the nonsense problems of an impossible machine that's meant to calculate an undefined value.

Please tell me you're high it would hurt me a lot to know people fill their heads with such meaningless nonsense sober.

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#41270 - 08/02/10 12:12 PM Re: What is Total Economic Value? [Re: Lucius600]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3112
To start with: the economy is, and always has been, an invention of man. The flows of money, the regulations and potential value of any given object or source is being decided by the current needs and laws under which it is subjected.

How is a source being valued? By the economical needs and laws, what is it really worth? Zero,nada,nyet,null..
Other factors which include a potential value would include the current state of affairs with technology to get to the sources.

Now, to answer the question "What is the total economic value?": it's worth nothing. The only things on which economics live would be emotional value. A value which is to be payed by other stuff whereto emotional value is also attached. In a pure OU, there is no value.

I mean, I have quite a collection of fossils and minerals here at home. Those are pieces I have found during research and "explorations". Some of them are very nice when I found them and some needed to be a little retouched to be of scientific significance. I have pieces of pyrite (or fools gold) of about the size of a grown-mans fist. I'll throw it at someones face if I wanted to and he/she may keep it if they like it. But these pieces of pyrite to some tend to have a certain esthetical value. I've seen prices for half the size of the pieces I own to be about 80-90 Euros. I give them away for free and can even make them look more shiney/appealing.

Point is, to estimate a total economic value is futile for the sole reason everyone estimates the value of things according to emotional and esthetical factors. And from what I estimate, the total economic value equals 0.


Edited by Dimitri (08/02/10 12:43 PM)
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#41338 - 08/02/10 09:23 PM Re: What is Total Economic Value? [Re: Lucius600]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



When you mention calculating the total economic value of the entire planet, do you mean calculating the total monetary value of the entire planet, by somehow determining its total use value, at a given time, element by element?

Or is economic value, or value more generally, defined in some other way or is it a combination of factors, so as to include moral or political value, or sentimental value, or medical value, etc.?

Also does scarcity and abundance, and supply and demand, come into the calculation? Also do you take into account weather conditions (natural disasters) and other outside factors into account?

I like this notion of a calculating machine which could actually calculate the total economic value of the planet, but think it is almost impossible to fully conceive and create, not only because of the sheer size of the world and the enormous diversity in the world to be accounted for, but also because of the way time or succession is constantly altering the elements and states of affairs which would be examined by the calculator.

Some years ago an email was floating around Sydney and it had a link, which lead to an interesting website. On this website you could see how many people were being born and how many people were dying second by second worldwide and what they were dying of. It also looked at how much was being produced industry by industry worldwide, second by second, and also the environmental damage being done. It was an interesting thing to look at. The problem was that the calculator was based on a conglomeration of national yearly averages (which themselves may be unreliable) and as a result it couldnít actually calculate the totality of true events as they happened, in real time, second by second. I donít know how one can calculate these types of things, but they all have an effect on an economic calculation.

How do you calculate the number of trees in the world, or the amount of water? Or, how do you calculate the total amount of natural mineral resources etc.?

How is the information regarding the world to be acquired for the calculator to calculate?

Still I like the notion of such a calculator because it tends to suggest a mind which is maturing and wants to calculate and examine and take control of the entire world and wilfully change things?

I feel that this calculation machine and what it does may have some sort of ethical or personal meaning for you? Unfortunately I have not really understood this aspect of your post. Am hoping that you will clarify this further?

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#41356 - 08/03/10 03:41 AM Re: What is Total Economic Value? [Re: ]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
A strange post for sure but still.

I'm with Dimitri that essentially the total value of this planet and everything included is zero.
What we define as value is actually depending upon how much we need something.

Value = need.

In that respect, if you are starving, a pound of gold is worth less than a chicken. A cure for TB/TBC has a different value for those suffering from it than for those not being affected.

A rare stamp might have a certain value when there are only three left. Destroy one of them and the value of the two remaining exceeds that of the previous three.

A painting might be worth millions to one person while it is worthless to another.

Value is need and as such, can not be calculated globally.

D.

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#41461 - 08/05/10 09:18 AM Re: What is Total Economic Value? [Re: Diavolo]
Lucius600 Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 28
Loc: USA
Okay i agree that the economy is valued at zero. the problem with that is that the government is tring to make the value of our homes less meaning we have to work more so they may waste more of our lives. i earnestly know that the gangster could run an operation like the middle east better than our policy could. that right there is the artificial intell. but since the A.I. would and could other calculate a value of zero in total real-time. has anyone asked what the machine might want with all this interaction with human life? it is possible and probable that that machine was turn on and all "it" seeks is to be a real boy. this same logic would have to apply to the anti-christ superstar joy machine. we must program "it" the machine with none-entropic programming. this logic also applies to the christian because it is always prepairing fir it's death and the so called "neo-agers" are prepairing for life. makes me kind of wonder if they are planning to kill all those whom do not go with thier ways and that is true evil, that being the lack thereof no freedom for their thing. Licifer is Latin for light and enlightenment, when the galactic conscious thought about letting there be light Lucifer was created. Lucifer is the light and g-d is the darkness those filthy bastards, lol(;
L600
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