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#41369 - 08/03/10 01:29 PM Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero?
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Looks like this project has cleared another hurdle.

All religious considerations aside, do you see this as progress or a thumb in the eye?

Personally, I'm for the latter simply because it feels a lot like turning the other cheek to me.

What say you 600 Club?

 Quote:

New York City Panel Clears Way for Mosque Near Ground Zero:

A New York City panel voted unanimously Tuesday to reject landmark status for a building near the World Trade Center site, paving the way for construction of a mosque and an Islamic community center.

Rest of the article
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#41370 - 08/03/10 01:54 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fnord]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
Not a citizen of the US, but considering this article I would see it as a thumb in the eye and a victory for Islam.

It is a start of the degradation of Western culture the way I see it (those not familiar with my views on cultural and racial matters --> clickie ).
I hope this will turn out to be a joke. And otherwise I will agree with the first redneck who sets fire and starts shooting at the mosque.


Edited by Dimitri (08/03/10 02:00 PM)
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#41372 - 08/03/10 01:56 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fnord]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't think allowing yet another symbol of submission can really be called progress can it?

It again shows those Lefties prefer to add blood supplies to a cancer instead of starving it.

D.

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#41373 - 08/03/10 02:30 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fnord]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
Mainstream America seems to be for freedom of religion only where Christianity is concerned. To deny Muslims the right to build their mosque is to go against the principle of equality stated (but often not followed) in the Constitution.

I donít see this as turning the other cheek, because (presumably) the Muslims who want to build the mosque werenít involved in the terrorist attack. These are, as far as we know, law-abiding citizens who simply want to build someplace to peacefully assemble for purposes of religious expression.

I say let the Muslims have their mosque, but keep an eye on them. As Ronald Reagan said, trust but verify.
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#41374 - 08/03/10 02:39 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: William Wright]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Religious extremists (goes the official version) attacked the financial center of the US.

Proponents of that same religion then seek to build a place of worship where that financial center used to be.

Do you not see that as symbolic of a victory of religion over commerce?

Why pick that exact location?
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#41375 - 08/03/10 02:44 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: William Wright]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
I donít see this as turning the other cheek, because (presumably) the Muslims who want to build the mosque werenít involved in the terrorist attack. These are, as far as we know, law-abiding citizens who simply want to build someplace to peacefully assemble for purposes of religious expression.

Well you might see them as not being involved in the terrorist attacks, but I can imagine many other people who will see it the other way. I mean, the attacks after all were being done by muslims.

Law-abiding citizens? I have noticed that when letting foreign cultures "invade" a country and give them the freedom to practice their religion a certain respect is being blackmailed from both the countries leaders and from the "invaders". (As noticed here in Belgium/Europe). The persons at long term will somehow push forth certain rules of honour and conduct which are alien, and sometimes considered amoral, within the invaded country thus leading towards certain conflicts which could have otherwise been evaded.

I think the particular behaviour of moving towards a foreign country and slowly implementing rules, guidelines and ideas from the original culture as the numbers of ghettos and people multiply was a strategy of psychological warfare.
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#41379 - 08/03/10 03:00 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
I think putting *any* religious edifice on Ground Zero is an affront to the bereaved. I don't care if said bereaved would like a church, temple or ecumenical place of worship - it would still demean the place.


That's what I was thinking when I framed the conversation "religious considerations aside"... it may be a mistake on my part to attempt this discussion outside of a religious context since 9/11 happened within one.

I was in full support of rebuilding the towers exactly as they stood before. Not sure what happened to that plan.

I'll check out that movie, thanks for the recommendation.
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#41380 - 08/03/10 03:10 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fnord]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
I was in full support of rebuilding the towers exactly as they stood before. Not sure what happened to that plan.

Or as a Belgian comedian once said:
"Rebuild it twice the height, twice as big as the ones before with a huge target in the middle just to fuck with their minds. And maybe put a pita-shop on top of it".

Bad translation and more funny parts are lost because of it, but it sure shows more attitude..
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#41382 - 08/03/10 03:32 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fnord]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I don't give a shit about what happened on 9/11. I wasn't hurt and neither was anyone that I care about. Still I feel that building a mosque at the site would be, at the very least, a tacky move. And certainly not a very intelligent one; if they do build it I can guarantee that it will not stand for very long without being vandalized in one way or another.

My reasons for being against the building of the mosque is very different from the reason most people would hold. I am not a fan of Islam, at all. I have always been against organized religion but lately Islam has been the focus of resentment for obvious reasons.

That being said I would be against the building of a mosque anywhere except for the Middle East and only if they promised to stay the fuck over there and not come anywhere near me. They can hate me all they want for whatever reason and if they love their shitty "holy land" so much they should remain there. I have no desire to go to that crappy desert so if they stay there then there is no reason for us to be in conflict with each other.
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#41384 - 08/03/10 04:12 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fnord]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 149
Loc: NY
I'm against it. I live in NY and was there on 9/11. It's a slap in the face to the victims and the victims families of the attacks. As a matter of fact, there's a street in Queens that has a lot of middle eastern restaurants and when news of the attacks reached the partons and workers they went out onto the streets and started cheering.

It's a tasteless thing to do and shows no respect for what happened. I'm especially disgusted that anyone living in NYC would even entertain the idea.

European countries that have let Muslims enter unchecked are now having problems with them because the Muslins are trying to change the values and ideals of those countries. The same thing will happen to NYC.
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#41386 - 08/03/10 05:07 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Knievel74]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I have to agree with Knievel. I live in New York, and its fucked up. It's not about religion, its about MONEY. The mayor even said he won't look into where their money comes from because its a religious group.
It's fucking sad, but money rules, nothing else matters.

On a side note, I read that they won't build a mosque on a site where pigs are buried or kept. I think people should just start leaving slaughter house remains there. OHHH, maybe open up a roasted pig bar-be-que joint next door. When they go to worship, they can smell the deep rich smell of cooking pig. With hog heads in the window. \:\)

M
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#41392 - 08/03/10 07:34 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
zippadydooda Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 61
Loc: San Diego, California
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
Apparently, Muslim patriots do exist.


I wouldn't call them patriots.

Yet to ensure due freedom for everyone, the freedom of each must be curbed, restrained and regulated.


^ That's not freedom.

As for the building of any mosque or religious center at Ground Zero, I see that move as diametrically opposed to the American way, and more importantly, my personal beleifs.

If this plan goes through, I hope the building gets hit by an airplane.
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#41393 - 08/03/10 07:44 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Morgan]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Sounds like some aspiring activist should 'bacon' (as opposed to 'egg') the building. Churches and Synagogues are routinely vandalized in the US. Welcome to America bitches!

Besides, throwing bacon at a building would only be littering as opposed to the more permanent vandalism of spray painting or other property damage. Hell, the whole campaign could go viral. New Yorkers could drop all sorts of porcine trash off at the front door of the Mosque - potted meat, SPAM, pork rinds, any sort of old sandwich with bacon on it, the butt end of a 'dirty water dog.' Oh, the possibilities are endless.

I hope they do build this thing. This sounds like it could be a lot of fun!
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#41394 - 08/03/10 08:11 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fnord]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
[MindWar Rant Mode ON]

This entire situation has been handled unbelievably idiotically since 9/11 happened. Bush & Co. chose to contextualize it as a "radical Islam" thing instead of what it should have been: an international criminal thing (like drug cartels, the Mafia, etc.). So we attacked two Islamic nations (neither of which as a nation attacked us), and have gloriously managed to infuriate, hence "radicalize", far more Muslims than Osama bL could ever have fantasized. And Islam is big: about 1-1/2 billion worldwide/about 22% of the world's population. Talk about the stupidest choice of an enemy you could possibly set out to aggravate.

This is great for the military/industrial complex and for politicians who control their constituents through fear; it gives them a nice, permanent war, which is what they were desperately looking for when the previous boogeyman, "Communism!", collapsed at the end of the '80s.

Do most Westerners (by which we really mean European-style Christians) like Islam? No. So what? Who says that everybody has to like everybody else's religion, dietary choices, love/sex practices, or otherwise-lifestyles? Don't like a particular country's style, don't go there.

"Terrorism!" is a knee-jerk propaganda term, nothing more. All the more OhMyGodding because it has the word "terror" in it, which everyone knows is scary. But what is the phenomenon actually? Just fighting by groups which aren't official government armies and don't wear uniforms. In the '60s we used to call them "guerrillas", which was Che Guevara-cool. In my day the Special Forces could work either with or against Gs, whichever was more convenient; indeed SF was originally conceived to create and train Gs, just like the WW2 undergrounds.

Then the concept morphed into "insurgents" and "counterinsurgency" since as it turned out the USA got into the habit of suppressing change rather than facilitating it around the world. Today it's all simplified as Tism, which means everybody operating outside of the established government club, no matter what jerks some of those clubmembers happen to be.

So if this whole mess had been handled by monolith-enhanced dolphins, it wouldn't make a damned bit of difference what sort of religious building is planned near Ground Zero. We would just be after the individuals who did the crime, as criminals.

[MindWar Rant Mode OFF]
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#41399 - 08/03/10 10:08 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fist]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
Daisy Khan, who's building the mosque, claims she wants to "start the healing." If she's genuine about that, she should realize how poorly this gesture is being received and make plans to build it somewhere else. It's just socially retarded for her to continue on with building it there when she knows it's pissing so many people off. She's not going to "start the healing" by flagrantly ignoring people's feelings.

The movement against the mosque attempted to make a rickety old building a landmark because it happened to be hit by some of the debris. We all saw the news; that debris got all over the place. I can understand being pissed off about a mosque near ground zero, but was the commission really supposed to rule that "debris=landmark" in order to prevent the construction of one mosque? Imagine the further implications of such a ruling. I can imagine vindictive Muslims trying to get other debris-hit buildings labeled "landmarks" when someone else tries to build something in the general area, just to try and hold the commission accountable to its ruling.
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