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#55932 - 06/16/11 05:32 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Nyte]
Dedalus Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 51
Loc: Ireland

 Quote:
Verb dipshit....look up the verb usage of SPELT. You have now made it perfectly clear you can't look past the first part of anything or you didn't pay attention in learning English. In trying to make me look like a fool, you've made a complete ass out of yourself. Congratulations.


I predicted this weak, angry response in my first post. Such an unfortunate lack of discipline. Furthermore, you are, as before, hung up on petty semantics, particularly with the inclusion of the following

 Quote:
You drew a "parallel" and Dadelous [sic] was sure it was a "comparison"


(not aided by the fact that Dimitri and I actually both used the term parralel.)

This squabbling drivel out the way, your response can be summed up as

 Quote:
All the rest of your response is blather


I see. Coupled with the earlier "I will not waste any more time rehashing it just for you", it seems that you are not bothered to formulate a reply. In that case, perhaps the sensible thing to do would to have not responded at all, Nyte, in order to avoided coming across as a petty, quick-tempered heckler.
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Let us represent worthily for once the foul brood to which a cruel fate consigned us.

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#55955 - 06/17/11 07:09 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Nyte]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3118
 Quote:
It's fun to have it affirmed that your own nation and those immediately around you have enjoyed the helpfulness of the US and when convenient, it's populous feels no hesitation in taking a dig at America or it's people. More than once you have affirmed what so many Americans have said for years about the US helping other countries. You might want to look a little closer at what assistance (money, military, trade, etc.) has been had since WW2, not only by your own country but by those immediately around you. Those too affect your own country. If you think your country stands completely alone, then you are a complete idiot.

There is that grandeur again...
WW2 is about 60-70 years ago, quite a long time. And if I remember correctly, you guys only got involved since some of your own men were attacked by the germans. It was only then the descision came to get involved.
As far as the aid goes. After this period the aid has been comming from both sides. But that part seems to be forgotten for some weird reason... Don't get yourself pumped up like that, it is exactly the thing I'm pointing at.

(And don't worry, I've already been banned from other places for having "insulted" the Netherlands after a discussion like this one).
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#55966 - 06/17/11 12:17 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Dimitri]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Conjecture.

Talking about somebody in a derogatory way is backstabbing and cowardly, and since I have only known western Muslims who are not really any different to talk to than anyone else at the gym I have only the terrorists in context when mentioning extreme Islam on this forum.

I think it is very important to differentiate western Muslims from extremists/terrorists just as in the same way one ought to differentiate extreme Zionism/Judaism from urban-folk Jews who are not involved in parliamentary malfeasance, at all, in any way. The people in the streets are for the vast and wide majority, are NOT extremists we see in media portrayal.

I can be the most controlled and dispassionate, inhuman expression, I can shut somebody down like taking out rubbish, yet this is not a strength, it is a strength to trust and make an attempt at communication, it's always a disappointment for me to hospitalise somebody, the court case, the cells, the failed attempt to diffuse the situation is a let down. Some people just have negative agenda's and you can't reason with them. Sociopaths in my experience.

Don't get me wrong I'm an advocate of affirmative philosophy and have no interest in religion and slave morality applications in my own life, but I can see that others do and hence I have no desire to subjugate nor impose derogatory slights unto people I do not personally know. I am retaliatory unto corruption and lies not against people in the streets who are nothing to do with me.

I am an enemy of slave morality but I do not attempt to subjugate the will of the religionist nor slander the "people" who are consigned of it, what I do make an oppositional stance against is the malfeasant and negative people who impose their deceptive agenda through religion which subjugates the will of others. The enemy is ambiguous and we cannot see him as the religions provide a convenient veil of non-violent slave morality for the deceiver to hide behind.

I am not slating anyone personally nor impersonally but it just seems to me to be a highly irrational choice to continue the practice monotheism in the west amidst nationwide cognitive dissonance and anxiety wroth from the absurdly disproportionate ambiguity surrounding the whole "terrorist vs. Muslim" thing. Surely if your rational mind tells you that you can keep your moral values and exemplify value for others, you'd put the negative connotations to the side and make an attempt to reason with people in the land which you have migrated to? The Arab fellows who I meet at the gym, I had no problem making conversation many times, I don't think about things like religions and stuff when I'm out and about, I just never brought up religion or anything, I don't see the point if people are working toward common goals in a positive environment.

OK, so what can Satanists do, everyone hates us. There is no credibility in the political world for silly groups like Satanists. The word Satan is not taken as anything but negative and does not serve Satanists any means for progress whatsoever.

Everyone immediately hates neo-Nazi's too. And why is this? The Judeo-Christianised society has seen to that after 70 years of teaching "educative information" and although true it is in a particular context as one would present a case in a court of law, not malfeasant but definitely sided which has lead to only negative conceptions being made by all and every. Anything to do with Nazism carries immediate negative connotations in the public eye without so much as a breath of nationalist politics being discussed, anyone involved is cited as a "racist" in a dismissal tone, and nothing more than something to hold ones hands over the ears about and sing "la la la la". Even the candidates who represent national socialism are an abundance of mundane racists so no wonder it's all fucked. An ideology that has little hope of being re-established in it's noble format, not now. Hitler and his boys fucked up and so have those who wrote history by blaming an ideology instead of the human error that sent it down hill. So, away with the representatives of pseudo-neo-Naziism, it's all controlled opposition and I never vote for anything. It's too insulting to my intelligence to expect me to play the governments panem et circenses.

Everyone loves Judeo-Christian equality pathos in the west because they are ineptly soppy cunts like the modus of Jesus teaches them, even if they are sure they're atheists they are the same hosts that house the slave morality. We, as Satanist, with the word Satanist about us are not going to have a say in politics where only direct and plain words are used. Still the western society suckle at the flaccid bosom of wretched contentment smugly betraying their country and culture to show they are some kind of exemplary personification of utopian humaneness. Pretentiously solemn eyes which convey spineless cowardice and avoidance of conflict resolution.

The issue here is RESPECT, where does it say that Islam is a religion of respect? I have read scholarly essays that present views of Islam and profess all the hallmarks of respect.

Is respect the condition of being honoured, esteemed or well regarded? This is the most commonly understood definition of respect under Judeo-Christian morality. Morality having no place in nature where respect is shown to strength. One ought to naturally respect the honour, reputation and privacy of others. Respect involves staying completely away from slandering and gossiping about others. This has nothing to do with honouring imposed obligations or expectations of others, nor does respect have anything to do with being highly esteemed or revered. Respect is plain and simple maintainable of equilibrium which has nothing to do with peace, but a peace of mind is upon the ones in the position of dominance. Those who make a stance of active submission need not have their will subjugated or have any obligations imposed, the subordinate are left to go about their business, there is no shame and disgrace in stepping up to the mark of leadership and being put in place squarely by the more capable. A sense of humour and manners are important in our western society. Humour can set people at ease and relieve tension and ambiguity so easily.

There is no respect in subjugating the will and productivity of others, man, woman, child, or animal. Talking about somebody in a derogatory way is backstabbing and cowardly, and since I have only known western Muslims who are quite the ordinary and respectful chap, like me. I have no reason to talk about Muslims in a derogatory manner as my imposed conditioning is the Judeo-Christian slave morality and hence my Satanism is opposed to those imposed conditions. What I can affirm is the ambiguity problem surrounding those people who are forced to come here and have to deal with prejudice. THIS is why I am opposed to the religion's effects here in the west, not the people themselves.

Opposing paradigms is the problem and an unwillingness to trust and dispel doubts through communications. I can't say I blame anyone as lots of westerners drink alcohol and do drugs and are unruly and unapproachable for Muslims and likewise there are no go areas in Muslim societies.

In spite of what I have written I'm not tolerant at all, my way has always been to show utmost respect and never to create situations or subjugate others, if a person imposes that I acknowledge their orders, instructions or suggestions then they are met with crushing retaliation. It's all about manners with me. I am Heathen and lower myself not before any man, I step up to be his motivator, I expect the same of other men to uphold respect through exemplifying manliness, manners, humour. Some people are just too nervous to affirm mutual appreciation. When this happens it is unfortunate and a conclusion comes to pass out of necessity.

A Mosque is just a building with people you don't personally know. I can understand the feeling of retaliation toward religions, I just go about it in a tactile way and show respect before anything, I don't judge people by anything but their deeds. So you got to "socialise".

Ambiguous thoughts and emotional cognitive dissonance is unhealthy and causes unnecessary stress. It's all fucked and poorly organised. People with higher IQ and enthusiasm for pro-Man, life affirmation, needs to be in parliament.
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#56062 - 06/19/11 06:20 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Dimitri]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Conjecture to either ignore or contemplate.

People say "It's, ok he's just a moderate Muslim" like the Muslim is still a bit dodgy. This has become some kind of acceptable prejudice. A Muslim is a Muslim, and a terrorist or gangster is just a terrorist or a gangster no matter what organisation they are colouring their agenda with. The issue is removing the ambiguity and therefore removing cognitive dissonance from the nations people.

Linking Islam with serious crime is something Mosque's and real Muslims work to defeat but they are naturally afraid of the criminals because Muslim have families. Crime is something that is prohibited in Islam and has nothing to do with real Islam or Mosque's. Just like Crime has nothing to do with Christianity and Churches. However, as is evidenced, the propensity for clandestine crime to thrive through organised religions is very real. Islam can be a form of shaping a sense of identity for criminals just like any ethos.


The Qur'an is treated with immense respect by Muslims. Islam is a "genuine peace" religion, not a deceptive or ambiguous agenda.

Look at the Qur'an and you'll see what Islam is about. It's not about gangs or any kind of crime. The problem we have is not the articulate and noble Qu'ran or the intellectual moralists who formulated it's content to be memorised by the people. The Qu'ran is also not the Hadiths although this is entirely up to the individual to think for himself. The problem lies in the short attention span of human beings and their lazy inability to commit to thinking deeply about anything at all for one solitary moment. From this emerges the problematic memes and religiously justified cacoethes.

All the chapters except one begin with 'In the name of Allah the most merciful and the most kind'. This is the thought with which Muslims begin their actions. Terrorists are not Muslims of the Qu'ran. If a white man is behind an organised crime syndicate, would you say he was a Catholic or a Christian? Or would you simply summarise that he has defined himself as a criminal? Certainly Islam carries an identifiable style of crime to it when corrupted i.e. kamikaze, executions. But Chinese communists routinely administered death by one thousand cuts, decapitations and far more impressive atrocities than, say, 9/11. Catholic priests molest children with solemn eyes. The list goes on and on. What religious morality or political ethos does more than good, is to provide an organised structure for depraved humans to cultivate paths to atrocity and to veil themselves in absolute justification, to themselves and others.

There are criminals who just happen to be Muslim just as there are criminals within many cultures throughout the world. Islam is a belief system being exploited in the here and now just as all organised religion has been exploited in the past by man who is inept at understanding and actualising their own religion as it is intended, respectfully.

The propensity for justified violence to emerge through organised religion has been observed throughout the ages. Monotheism cultivates tunnel vision thinking, not just Islam by a long shot, Christianity, Judaism are also forms of righteousness thinking by which man can learn to justify himself to commit any act in the name of his God belief, from positive things to boycotting and atrocity.

The history of monotheism is logged with violence against the unbelievers, be they other creeds of monotheist, heretics, simply people trying to get on with their own lives privately. If not stopped at an early stage, the monotheists will repeat history. To deny such an eventuality is to bury ones head in the sand, this is not hate monger, it's indifference to anti-human humans. When all attempts at respectful negotiations unfortunately fail, bring the unfortunate events to conclusion. There is no need to formalise things further, the assailant has defined himself as dishonourable by his very deeds and therefore dug his own grave.

I would see a religious war starting between Muslims and Christians, as impoliteness, "rude". Rude because godless heathen care not for the conflicts of such alien beliefs, as we are too busy affirming the positive in life, valuing respect for out own species, trusting in our nature to do so. I would see nuclear fission fuse the molten remains of all and every human being hosting monotheistic memes. Blackened bones and silence would bare monument to pure black primordial evil annihilating all subordinate shades of grey. A peaceful plane of silent and soft, pure black ashes. Do people really need to be spoon fed the absolute obviousness of how to respect one another?

Yet, my personal misanthropological hygiene is not the issue here. Unfortunately, the people are not the issue, as we could annihilate a whole country and still the resurging viral memeplex effecting those who are susceptible would live on. Those in organised religion sometimes cannot think otherwise once the belief has been so devoutly and repetitiously been memorised, plus all the dedication and work gone in to cultivating the achievement itself is likely too life consumingly monumental and so much part of their identity that it's all too much to go back on for those people to make a revaluation of values.

To uncover that religious morality has too much propensity for deception and ambiguity to hide within it, religious morality has too much propensity for dissimulation and malfeasance. By asserting rational logic, there can be no effect of ambiguity, ambivalence, there can be no effect of cognitive dissonance.

Surely it's beyond all obviousness to respect ones own species and that if one loves one not need an ideology of love. Some people can't seem to grasp this so they logically meet conclusion. This is the western paradigm where unfortunately multicriminalism is all the rage these days. I wonder if the government thought it through when conceptualising the multicultural utopia?
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#56104 - 06/20/11 08:25 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Hegesias]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
If you ask me it just comes down to the fact that people are responsible for their actions despite what ever book they claim "told them to do it". It seems that the nation has been captivated by some "fools" who would like people to think that violence is in some way particular to Islam. That people who call themselves "muslims" are the only ones who try to kill others for dumb reasons.
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#61295 - 11/11/11 03:05 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Meph9]
Tropix Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/23/10
Posts: 16
Loc: Minneapolis
I realize this thread is pretty fucking old for a current event, but since its a discussion with viewpoints, I'll give mine. The attacks were by the people who flew into the building, not the religion. There's no reason they aren't free to build there. The fact that it disgruntles people attests to the way people view religion.

Islam, like Bible-based Christianity, is a bullshit religion about peace that is based on a violent book. I'd build a Mosque there too just to disrespect the people who oppose it. I'd build it because I knew it would make them mad. Because their religion and their patriotism is stupid. I laugh at the idea that the WTC site is sacred ground. It's just like the dumbasses in Israel fighting over that holy land. It's about dead people.

When we get past the feelings regarding the location of the Mosque and feelings toward Islam, we can see it for what it really is. Another crap building from another shit religion built on a city street. There's a Christian church on my block. It's ignorable. What it stands for is against a billion things I don't, but at the same time it poses no real threat whatsoever.

The idea that Tribeca is this ghetto of patriotism that has special rights is bullshit. Build a fucking mall where the WTC was. Build a Christian church to combat the mosque. Put up another world bank. Another statue of liberty - Osama bin laden with his head chopped off. The Whitehouse. A homeless shelter. An apartment building. Nothing. It's empty land now that will always mean something until the day people don't give a fuck about what it stood for. It stood for office jobs, or whatever they did there that was undoubtedly so fun for everyone in the world.

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#61296 - 11/11/11 06:11 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Tropix]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
 Quote:
When we get past the feelings regarding the location of the Mosque and feelings toward Islam, we can see it for what it really is.


Answer: no time soon which I've found to be rather odd because a few years ago the people who are fighting the "mosque"(really more a community center than mosque) would not have dared to display their foolish ideals in public places

After 9-11-01 GW to his credit was sure to drill the reality that it was al qaeda not the religion of islam that lead the attack. This reflected a sign that the American people were maturing and that we were capable of not being tabloid teavangelical culture war crap

It is outrageous that there were so many people called for the denial for individuals to build whatever they want within zoning laws in the city on land they own.

Fact is the abstract religion idea of islam is not the enemy and rightfully so because you can't kill thoughts and beliefs with bullets

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#61303 - 11/11/11 11:22 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Meph9]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
I just wish the mosque could have decorative tile work as beautiful as the mosques in Isfahan and Shiraz. They are the most beautiful buildings I've ever visited. I'm not a fan of Islam, but some of the aesthetics associated with it a pleasing. If only, as one of my Iranian acquaintances suggested, they used the beautiful mosques as libraries instead of houses of worship...
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Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#83841 - 01/06/14 07:35 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
I will preface this firstly by offering my sincere condolences to anyone who happens to be reading this who lost a loved one or was in anyway traumatized by 9/11… I am not stating any of this to offend you, this is simply my take on things.

Terrorism IS working – not so much in regards to the successful attacks (which are few and far between) but in regards to the insidious and oft unanalyzed side-effects. the question you need ask is *who* is it working for?

These subtle incidentals that are far more effective in erasing the very precepts this nation was founded upon – these knee-jerk reactions and secondary effects; THESE and these alone will prove successful in transforming America (bozorge shaitan) into something so unrecognizable that it will have effectively been destroyed; not by bombs or explosions... but by fear and fear alone.

If 9/11 would not have happened would you have a problem with it? I wouldn’t. I still don't.

If 9/11 would not have happened would you be so willing to undergo such invasive surveillance? Should I accept that I cannot call my family abroad in privacy when I have done nothing and am doing nothing wrong? Should I blame "Islamfascism" (whatever the shit that means)? Shit even in the words of the qur'an (and I quote) " O ye who believe! Avoid suspicion as much (As possible): for suspicion In some cases is a sin: And spy not on each other..." - yet this is precisely what we as a nation are doing - to our own citizens no less! It is sickly perverse.

This is a secular nation. Period. And so fucking what? Muslims (so they say) took down the towers. Sunni? Shia? Shit! how many Americans even know the difference? How many even know the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim? Moreover what the shit does it matter what religion they are? Dahmer was a Presbyterian, right?

Do not forget… Bin Laden was our best fucking friend when we were all up in arms about the communists and red-scare fighting proxy wars in Afghanistan; while as a nation children grew up "terrorized" by this whole "stop, drop, and cover" campaign.

We unilaterally invaded Iraq on the false pretense that they held chemical weapons (which they may well have had but were fucking smart enough to ship them to Syria because they knew we knew they should’ve had them because we fucking sold them to them in the first fucking place)… we stand by and do jack shit when Syria uses these (and probably the SAME) chemical weapons we were so supposedly vehemently opposed to in the first place (?!)

We put sanctions on Iran for pursuing nuclear technology that may or may not be used for nuclear weapons when not only we instigated a coupe upon a democratically elected leader (operation AJAX)… yet the only country in the fucking world to actually drop a friggin’ atomic bomb on innocent civilians was... err... US!

Meanwhile Isreal (which we back to the hilt while people at home starve) needn’t declare its nuclear arms, when the whole nation itself was just sort of sliced out of a nation that had literally nothing at all to do with the holocaust.

Additionally I find it highly suspect that Iran was hit by Stuxnet which, although is targeted at SCADA systems proliferates through 0-day exploits in windows OS… Windows! Which due to our sanctions MS has no business selling its OS to Iran in the first place.

Anyway, all gun-ho about finding this elusive “Bin laden” (who was once our ally until the wall came down) we swept Iraq under the carpet, and went into Afghanistan to find him and fight the Taliban (which back in the 80s we funded!) – and found the guy where?

Pakistan!

A nuclear armed nation… that we the people support! now… ok I can’t prove or disprove nor care to prove or disprove that 9/11 was or was not an inside-job… but if it wasn’t…
Maybe we ought to take a cold hard look at our own foreign policy before trying bring religion into this.

I’m not saying we “deserved” it… not at all… those were innocent people… but we too have innocent blood on our hands… what I am saying is well… keep-tap dancing on a mine-field and don’t be so surprised when the inevitable does happen.

Moreover – take a deep breath before taking the bait. Once upon a time this was the land of the free, home of the brave. “The only thing you have to fear is fear itself”… and never underestimate the power of the media.

Magic is misdirection; we all should know this.

Speech V


Edited by antikarmatomic (01/06/14 08:27 PM)
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