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#41655 - 08/08/10 08:10 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fist]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Fist
and it is blood which is Haram (unclean/forbidden/anti-Islamic).


In order to lighten up the discussion a bit.

Haram!
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Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#41658 - 08/08/10 09:26 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Morgan]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
Nothing I said is for the sake of being "cool." I'm making a logical point here. If you really think I'm just trying to look "cool" you're projecting something in my post that isn't there.

I'm making the point that people are scared shitless of muslims when there's nothing to worry about. This is no different from the idiots wearing surgical masks in airports because a couple people got sick or wanting to ban violent video games because a couple kids that played them are psychos. Media propagated hysteria that I just don't buy.

I did not at all mention the constitution. I think the american government at it's core is a complete joke and I couldn't give two shits what they decided was the politicalmorality of america.

Okay, you were affected personally by 9/11. You have right to take it seriously. I wasn't, I don't. I don't have those kind of altruistic tendencies. It's not an attack on you or those people. I as much for 9/11 victims as I feel for starving kids in ethiopia or victims of the subway serin gas attack in Tokyo.

Yeah they're preaching that they want to kill us all. Can they? Can they really?

I don't watch the news. The news is an absolute joke. The news is the reason everybody's giving into terrorism (the art of scaring people because you can't do what you want for real) and you know what? Without that news you wouldn't be afraid of losing "american values", whatever the fuck they are, and life would be no different.

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#41660 - 08/08/10 10:14 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: TV is God]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Alright, I finally decided to say something here. I hate Islam, with a passion. It goes beyond what we would normally consider a religion. It is a geopolitical ideology. However, I say let them build.

The laws here in America protect everyone's right to think, believe, and say pretty much whatever they want. It is these laws that protect their rights, and they also protect ours as well. I'm not worried about America becoming an Islamic State any time soon.

They may have chosen that site for the mosque as a bit "Fuck you!" to Americans, but I think the more likely reason would be that religion is a business here in America and this is great publicity. Allowing them to build the mosque is not a turn of the cheek. From my perspective we are saying, "We're not going to go batshit crazy and go against our principles." We have racists, Nazis, Communists, and all sorts of other groups competing in the free market of ideas. It has worked alright for the most part.

Let us not forget that America is still a largely Christian dominated nation. If we were to allow the government to discriminate against Islam, we would be setting a president for Christians to discriminate against us. We can't pick and choose who enjoy certain freedoms and who do not. We aren't exactly popular. After Islam, we'd be pretty close to the top of the list of groups to discriminate against.
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Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#41662 - 08/09/10 12:58 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: TV is God]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"I'm making the point that people are scared shitless of muslims when there's nothing to worry about"

So all the bombing all over the world, the airplane bomb attempts, the attempted car/van bombing in times square a few weeks ago by muslims mean nothing. Maybe you in your small city have nothing to worry about, but the big cities do. We are targets, and shit happens. You have to be aware because like it or not, the fundamentalists want to kill American and will find ways.

Fine don't buy into the media propaganda, keep your head in the sand. Nothing is wrong, everything is fine, and your mom is baking you an apple pie. Its not a matter of just watching one tv news show or one newspaper, its about seeing what is going on in the world through multiple media sources, and making an informed judgment about how screwed or fucked up things are or are not.

I see, so you just don't give a shit about what happens as long as it entertains you.

Can they kill us all, no, not in one shot. Iran is working on nukes, and I am sure if the Taliban in Pakistan gets their hands on some we can expect to get hit somewhere, sometimes soon. If they manage to nuke, New York, or Washington, or California, will any of that affect you? How would it affect the country?

"Without that news you wouldn't be afraid of losing "american values", whatever the fuck they are, and life would be no different."

I think that is a very naieve thing to say. BUT, you are entitled to stick you head in the sand and ignore everything that is going on in the real world.

Whatever I say won't make a difference to you so next....

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#41663 - 08/09/10 01:27 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Morgan]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1139
Loc: Amarillo, TX
If someone is genuinely concerned about danger, this seems to me a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.

On the one hand, if their request to build a mosque is rejected, or their mosque is bacon-and-tamponed, or invade Iraq instead of Saudi Arabia (where most of the terrorists were from) because we're in bed with the Saudi royal family, or pile naked Muslim men on top of one another and take pictures smiling and pointing, it seems likely just to piss them off and spur retaliation, not to mention provide justification for their martyr complex. (Look what the US did to us! Surely we're justified in doing something violent!)

On the other hand, if we just roll over and acquiesce to their every demand, it becomes a little game of just how far they can push the envelope. Building a mosque in NYC? OK. Building a mosque right near ground zero? Distasteful and disrespectful, but technically there's nothing stopping you. Demanding that your headscarf be worn in banks that prohibit hats and sunglasses or for your driver's license photo? That's creeping along the edge of special treatment. Sharia law? It's happened before in other countries.

If we give them an inch, they take a mile. If we don't give them an inch, they wail about their rights being denied and lash out. Kind of a shitty situation to be in.


Edited by XiaoGui17 (08/09/10 01:28 AM)
Edit Reason: accidentally capitalized something goofy
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#41665 - 08/09/10 05:05 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Morgan]
TV is God Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
So all the bombing all over the world, the airplane bomb attempts, the attempted car/van bombing in times square a few weeks ago by muslims mean nothing. Maybe you in your small city have nothing to worry about, but the big cities do. We are targets, and shit happens. You have to be aware because like it or not, the fundamentalists want to kill American and will find ways.

Some acts, mostly failed, at some relatively small time terrorism. You live in a big city, danger comes with the territory. Honestly if I lived in New York I think I'd be more afraid of muggers, crackheads, and other products of the good ol' american way of life. If their big followup to 9/11 is usually failing attempts to set off some bombs in a street I'm not shaking in my boots for a muslim invasion any time soon.

And even I catch myself speaking of muslims as if they're an organized unified front. They're not.

 Quote:

Fine don't buy into the media propaganda, keep your head in the sand. Nothing is wrong, everything is fine, and your mom is baking you an apple pie. Its not a matter of just watching one tv news show or one newspaper, its about seeing what is going on in the world through multiple media sources, and making an informed judgment about how screwed or fucked up things are or are not.

There's plenty that's actually wrong and fucked up in our society that's a bigger threat than some religious whackos across the stream. We don't seem afraid of the crazies in our own back yard. Our educational system is at every point encouraging one to be an unquestioning whore to authority. I would argue the fundamental social values of how one's expected to interact with another is very fucked but all issues deviant from the point.
I don't have the delusion everything's okay but I'm not afraid of anything just because I'm supposed to be.


 Quote:

I see, so you just don't give a shit about what happens as long as it entertains you.

Terrorist acts have no interference with my existence apart from the fear and paranoia of those around me. Sometimes it bugs me but I have personal satisfaction in seeing people freak out over nothing. Muslim invasion is the new y2k. I wouldn't be heartbroken if I wasn't entertained but when the choices are to be paranoid, ignore it, or get a good laugh out of it I'll take option three.

 Quote:

Can they kill us all, no, not in one shot. Iran is working on nukes, and I am sure if the Taliban in Pakistan gets their hands on some we can expect to get hit somewhere, sometimes soon. If they manage to nuke, New York, or Washington, or California, will any of that affect you? How would it affect the country?

If they use a nuke that's the end of them. We have a bigger nuke dick. We'd lose Washington or California. They'd lose everything. I know you'll believe I'm just trying to be a "cool" misanthrope (I assume some misplaced leftover sentiment for our serial culler buddies) but I'd enjoy every second of that too. I enjoy panic not to be different, edgy, outlandish, or whatever.
Life is a ride, enjoy it.

 Quote:

"Without that news you wouldn't be afraid of losing "american values", whatever the fuck they are, and life would be no different."

I think that is a very naieve thing to say. BUT, you are entitled to stick you head in the sand and ignore everything that is going on in the real world.

The muslims are a disorganized joke that's sects hate each other as much as they hate us. Ignorant to what's going on the real world? No I just keep it in perspective. Not every mole is skin cancer.

 Quote:

Whatever I say won't make a difference to you so next....

I think it's jumping the gun a little bit to conciser me as stubborn or closed minded after a debate of only three posts. I'm not saying any of this to rattle cages or shape what people think of me. I'm just making my point about the topic like everybody else.

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#41666 - 08/09/10 05:27 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: XiaoGui17]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The question is not if they can kill you, the question is if you can protect yourself.

I had a discussion here with a previous member about that, not too long before 9-11 happened, in which she claimed the domestic defense of the USA being so superb, any attack would be futile or intercepted. I disagreed and told her if anyone desires to attack, they can attack and will at one point succeed. Sadly I was proven right. I expected a chemical attack somewhere, not even in my wildest imagination I could think about commercial flights turning into weapons. If your opponent's desire to harm you is strong enough, and he is willing to do whatever it takes, being the defensive party is never in your favor.

That is the sad state of affairs; the West is trying to defend itself against a close to invisible foe willing to do whatever it takes. The longer we remain in defense, the more probable it will become that at one point they will succeed in striking again. Look at this as somewhat identical to prisons, inmates and wardens but instead of inmates trying to get out, them trying to get in. Why do some inmates succeed in escaping prison or bribing wardens? Because they have all the time of the world to identify the weak spots and think about alternative methods to exploit them. The same is true at the level of nations or defense. Nations don't have time to focus all their energy on protection so inevitable, there will be weak spots. Those willing to strike do have all the time because it has become their goal in life and they do have the will to focus on that until they are successful.

Mind you, at some level I cannot disagree with those terrorists . We in the West have become silly enough to think our values are so superb, we should export them elsewhere. Some consider those values a very mediocre import product and think they were doing just fine when upholding their own values. Add to that the typical foreign intermeddling in which friend and foe are interchanged so frequently in the end your foes become friends, and you create a wonderful mess.

Alea iacta est.

The West has a problem and the why of the problem is not as important as the fact that there is a problem that needs to be solved. But the West has become corrupted. Not only money rules our current state of affairs, guilt runs rampant too. The whole Left is ridden by white guilt. The effects are easily noticed when your own culture is put into jails for spreading hate, or considered a sub-group because they uphold white cultural values or tradition while at the same time those other cultures acting identical, get rewarded with community centers in which they may fully explore their cultural tradition and revel in it. In Europe, in those very community centers the cancer grows. Where do we find sharia4europe gathering? Not in dark alleys or in secret houses; they gather in those very community centers because none wants to interfere with those different cultures exploring their values. We don't interfere because we still feel bad because granddaddy got rich on their expense in the rubber plantation, or spice and cotton trade. We have put the minorities on a pedestal at the expense of the majority and the very reason for doing so is guilt.

Of course, many do not give a damn about it. I assume it is the same down here as it is elsewhere in Europe but strangely, all those I see that don't give a damn are the first to run to the cops when someone punches their nose. If they don't give a damn, why do they suddenly expect others to give a damn when something affects them? But they got their ipod, their television and their games and as long as they have these, who cares what happens? As long as they remain distracted all is well. And yes all is well; they are distracted and as such, become weak, the very cattle to be exploited by their environment, their government and anyone out there willing to do so. Those that are awake either say not with this guy or join the ones exploiting.

Why is it possible that this center is being build there? Not only because of money but because besides that, opportunity and guilt runs politics.

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

D.

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#41667 - 08/09/10 07:10 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Diavolo is dead on. If someone REALLY wants to attack you and REALLY isn't too concerned with the ramifications of his act or any personal pain of discomfort they will feel... sooner or later. They'll get you. Guaranteed. Only thing you can really do is expect the unexpected and soldier on.

One of the "assignments" I had while I was in the military was to serve as an EET member (Exercise Evaluation Team) for war games with the 60th MAW. My area of expertise for most of the exercises was in combat mobility and control... basically, how well we could invade a country. My boss, the Colonel, also used me for clandestine activities because he knew I could be a sneaky son of a bitch to get the job done. I would crawl accross an active runway and through the center grassy areas to plant the "THIS IS A BOMB" card on airctaft, I wore a wig, dressed as a civilian photographer assigned to cover the exercises for the San Francisco Chronicle to make my way onto the base and assassinate the commander... sometimes I got caught and sometimes I got the mission done. But I was relentless.

Back in 1984-1989, we KNEW our enemy was going to be Arabic, and that we would have to defend against Arab terrorist attacks. In our radio chatter and message traffic, we'd use our names backward to give a more Arabic feel (Captain Bashaw would be Ahmed Wahsab). I was tasked with coming up with scenarios for crippling attacks.

I seldom submitted attacks on aircraft exclusively, unless that was required. I went after soft targets that would get the most bang for my buck. I wanted to show that I could tie up a lot of resources with as little personal expenditure as possible. I wanted to slam the morale of the troops and die a glorious death for Allah. Some of the attacks I devised were:

A gang rape of a military woman in a barracks. When the police arrived, I would call DETONATION over my radio in the most logical place for their on-scene command point.

Poisoning the water at the elementary school adjacent to the base where military families had their children. When the ambulances responded, my team would attack with automatic weapons.

Blowing up all six of the base chapels simultaneously during worship services.

The one that made the team tell me, "No way... just stop" was my plan to hijack the maternity ward at the base hospital, force news coverage and blow it up on live television.

I've spent a lot of time in the Middle East in the military and I kept my ears open and my mouth shut. The mind of a Jilhadist isn't in thinking about what's going to happen to HIM, but what's going to happen to YOU. And just because they HAVEN'T come after you in Podunk Falls, Nebraska doesn't mean they won't, boys and girls, because there are people whose minds play the war game 24/7... and they want the biggest bang for the buck that they could get with the least expenditure of time and effort.

So, were I Kcolb Ekaj, I might go to a rural town of 5,000 or so with a small truck full of explosives... or a fertilizer plant... or a hospital... or a school for handicapped children. "Today, we have stricken deep into your heartland at Podunk Falls, Nebraska. Perhaps tomorrow, it will be Benton, Illinois or any of ten thousand targets of opportunity. Allah Akbar. This is the Popular Front For Islamic Solidarity."

Death for a true believer is always an option... yours, preferably, but theirs if necessary. But they know that protecting every target isn't possible... like John Dillinger reportedly said, "They can't stop me. They have to be at every bank, every time. I just have to be at one bank one time."
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#41668 - 08/09/10 07:59 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I live in a rather quiet and calm country which is internationally often only known for its waffles, beer and sprouts and maybe nowadays our internal linguistic/regional battle. The region I live in is even calmer and it might seem like a nice and cozy environment for tourists to visit.

Still, a couple of years ago, in a small border town about fifteen minutes from here, five members of the GICM were arrested, not only because they supported Al Qaeda but also because they, apparently, were involved in the previous attacks and the Madrid one.

 Quote:
What the city elders did not know at the time was that the women came from households in which several men had embraced radical Islam and joined a terrorist network that was setting up sleeper cells across Europe, according to Belgian federal prosecutors and court documents from Italy, Spain and France.

Over the next nine months, Belgian federal police arrested five men in Maaseik, a town of 24,000 people tucked in the northeast corner of Belgium. Each was charged with membership in a terrorist organization, the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group, a fast-growing network known by its French initials, GICM.

With each arrest, investigators uncovered fresh evidence that placed small-town Maaseik at the center of a terrorist network stretching across Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. The town had served as a haven for suspects in the Madrid train explosions that killed 191 people in March 2004, for instance, as well as an important meeting place for the GICM's European leadership.

The Belgian investigation underscores the challenges that authorities in Europe face in tracking down sleeper cells and in sorting vaguely suspicious behavior from imminent danger. Police have made scores of arrests in Berlin, Paris, Rome, Stockholm and Amsterdam in the past two years to disrupt what were described as terrorist plots, although in many cases it remains unclear whether the threats were overstated or false alarms.

... Despite an investigation that has reached into eight countries, Belgian authorities remain uncertain about the Maaseik cell's true mission . Police found no bombs, no guns, no blueprints for an attack -- just lots of worrisome evidence that the defendants were consorting with terrorism suspects from elsewhere and could have been planning something big.

"We are quite sure that we have proved that they were a logistical support cell," said a senior official with the Belgian State Security service, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "But the fact is, the potential was there to do something more serious."

... At first, intelligence officials suspected the Maaseik group was a ring to smuggle illegal farmworkers into Limburg. The agents dubbed their mission Operation Asparagus, after the vegetable that is widely grown in the region. As months passed, concerns grew.

In November 2003, several key figures in the GICM traveled to Maaseik from Spain and France for a rare meeting, according to Spanish and French court documents.
The GICM's European cells normally avoided direct contact with each other so that they wouldn't attract attention from police. But the network had seen several of its leaders arrested in Morocco after terrorist bombings in Casablanca six months earlier and was trying to regroup, the court documents show. Maaseik was emerging as an important hub.

Among those attending the meeting was Lahoussine Haski, a Moroccan with a history of fighting for radical Islamic causes in Chechnya, Afghanistan and other places, according to Belgian investigators and court documents.

Haski arrived in Maaseik holding a false passport, on the run from authorities in Morocco who had issued a warrant for his arrest on terrorism charges. In Saudi Arabia, he was listed by the government as one of the 26 most-wanted terrorist suspects in the kingdom for his alleged role in a series of bombings.
After months of hiding out in Saudi Arabia, Syria and Turkey, Haski needed a refuge. Maaseik seemed safe. He married a local woman. Later, she would become one of the half-dozen women who caused a ruckus in town by donning their black burqas.


Yes Houston we got a problem.

D.

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#41671 - 08/09/10 09:37 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fnord]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Looks like Germany is having the same sort of issues, though their relationship with islam is longer running one by far than ours.

There always seems to be the question of establishing sharia law in whatever country these folks migrate to. I can't think of anything worse than faith based litigation.


Hamburg Mosque Used by 9/11 Plotters Is Shuttered

BERLIN — The authorities in Hamburg said Monday that they had shut down the mosque there where several of the hijackers involved in the Sept. 11 attacks had met because it remained a source of radicalization nearly a decade later. Read the rest here

From a wiki article:
 Quote:

Construction of Mosques

The construction of mosques occasionally arouses hostile reactions in the neighborhoods concerned. For example, in 2007 an attempt by Muslims to build a large mosque in Cologne sparked a controversy.


Fears of Islamic fundamentalism

Fears of Islamic fundamentalism came to the fore after September 11, 2001, especially with respect to Islamic fundamentalism among second- and third-generation Muslims in Germany. Also the various confrontations between Islamic religious law (Sharia) and the norms of German Grundgesetz and culture are the subject of intense debate. German critics include both liberals and Christian groups. The former claim that Islamic fundamentalism violates basic fundamental rights whereas the latter maintain that Germany is a state and society grounded in the Christian tradition.
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#41673 - 08/09/10 10:23 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Fnord]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
Shit, I still remember that day. I was homeschooled. I was about 11 or 12 I think. Parents were at work and I got up early to watch Who's Line Is It Anyway on Comedy Central. Turned the tv on and the news channel was on. I saw the first tower in smoke. My initial thought was that this was a movie or preview for one. But 5 - 10 minutes passed and I realized "Holy shit this shit is real?!" That was a fucked up day.
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#41682 - 08/09/10 01:59 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
... like John Dillinger reportedly said, "They can't stop me. They have to be at every bank, every time. I just have to be at one bank one time."

I like that. Along that line, and not to hijack the thread, I recall an interview with an old Alcatraz guard some years ago when former guards & prisoners held a reunion in San Francisco. He recalled, "Machine Gun Kelly was a real gentleman. He was only bad when he had a machine gun."
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#41688 - 08/10/10 03:02 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Diavolo]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1139
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Not only money rules our current state of affairs, guilt runs rampant too. The whole Left is ridden by white guilt. The effects are easily noticed when your own culture is put into jails for spreading hate, or considered a sub-group because they uphold white cultural values or tradition while at the same time those other cultures acting identical, get rewarded with community centers in which they may fully explore their cultural tradition and revel in it. In Europe, in those very community centers the cancer grows. Where do we find sharia4europe gathering? Not in dark alleys or in secret houses; they gather in those very community centers because none wants to interfere with those different cultures exploring their values. We don't interfere because we still feel bad because granddaddy got rich on their expense in the rubber plantation, or spice and cotton trade. We have put the minorities on a pedestal at the expense of the majority and the very reason for doing so is guilt.

This is very true. On the other hand, I think part of the reason white folks, men, heterosexuals, and anyone else in historically "privileged" class feels guilty is not just because of great-granddaddy's plantation. It's also because there are modern-day whites who get a lot of publicity that gives liberals a sense of something they have to apologize for. Birthers at Tea Parties with misspelled signs and portraits of Obama with a Hitler mustache foaming at the mouth about some N!GGER in the White House plastered all over MSNBC make liberal whites squirm in their seats and feel the need to donate something to the NAACP.

Or take this example: At one rally in June, two Arabic-speaking Egyptian Coptic Christians who had come to oppose the mosque had to be whisked away by the police after being threatened and told to "Go home." This even after one made a point of shouting "I'm a Christian!" to the crowd.

Well, isn't that lovely? They had actually come to oppose the mosque as well, but the other protesters just saw, as the guy in the apartment next to mine so drunkenly put it, "sand n!ggers."

Maybe the opposition to the mosque would get more support if they could find a way to weed the nutjobs out of their midst. The Muslims wanting to build the mosque have much better PR, and like it or not, that's going to affect who wins.


Edited by XiaoGui17 (08/10/10 03:04 AM)
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#41692 - 08/10/10 05:10 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: XiaoGui17]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The "sand nigger" approach you experienced is actually our very first line of defense. We are tribal; all claims of being civilized aside, basically we remain a very tribal species. As such, when pressure arises, we act very similar to how our species always acted throughout times. Anger and fear make us focus on the one and only important aspect of other people in those situations; difference.

When I was in the US, not too long after the 9-11 strike, I quickly heard about attacks on Sikhs. At some level I did find it hilarious because a Sikh is about as similar to a Muslim as a Christian is to a Buddhist. But they're both ragheads, so they must be the same. At first I did find it stupid behaviour and yes, while it essentially is stupid in certain situations, it is also very practical in others. This xenophobic behavior which is rooted in us comes in pretty handy when danger arises or when it is needed. Warfare doesn't really promote looking at the opponents as unique individuals but is most served with creating one uniform view upon the enemy, focusing on the only important thing; difference. Which creates the option in many Hollywood movies to add their "moral" interlude, in which the brave hero, after shooting his opponent, finds a photo of the enemy's wife and kids in a wallet.

The Left tries to eradicate these reactions, simplistically assuming that if people become correctly educated, they will not display such behaviour again. That is as likely as trying to make a man not look at a pretty female when she walks by. Whenever pressure arises, we will fall back to this instinctive behaviour.

When manipulated correctly, you get things done by exploiting it. The others know that too.

D.

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#41705 - 08/10/10 10:45 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
[MindWar Rant Mode ON]


Speaking of MindWar (liked your paper on it by the way), do you think the government collective uses the media as a means to sway public opinion? I know politicians do it on an individual basis, but what I mean is that is there some sort of concerted effort, or a department or something, that dreams up what to tell the media on certain issues to spin things in a way to garner support? If so, do they operate in collusion with the media? Your paper particularly deals with application in a foreign environment but might this sort of thing be used domestically and if so how prevalent is it? I suspect it's widespread since the news OF America from different countries (BBC for example) is quite different than the news IN America.

Guys like Jim Marrs have been shouting about a government/press collusive effort to fool Americans for a long time (JFK forward) but he comes across as a bit zany at times. Michael Moore also tries to make the link but never quite gets there successfully, though he does prove (to me at least) that the press and some large corporate interests are in bed together.

I guess I just wonder how much herd TV is designed to sway the collective public opinion. Conveniently, it seems successful in pushing the two party binary agenda where people can either be this or that like Sneetches on beaches and third side folk (like us) are sold out as the lunatic fringe.
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