Page 9 of 11 « First<7891011>
Topic Options
#55378 - 06/02/11 04:08 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Ghostly1]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3109
 Quote:
Those are Muslims, residing in the US, earning a living here, sending some of that money overseas and this is their reaction to all those people dying?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether you like it or not.
I also find your stance quite hypocrit. How many innocent people has the US killed? I remember pictures of a dead Bin-Laden and streets in the US covered with festivities. I remember the scandal of torturing prisoners in US prisons. I remember the hanging of Hussein and the reaction from the West on those issues.

Don't start with the vague notions of being better and more humane then the others, you aren't. The US always had a meddling attitude, it only was a matter of time before someone dared to hit back. For the middle-east it isn't a war on terrorism anymore, for them the matter is MUCH bigger then you think. In the present the west (and more specific: the US) has become an icon of unholy acts, blasphemy and destroying culture. To us it might seem like a war on terror, to them it now is an almost never-ending war against Western fundamentalism.


Edited by Dimitri (06/02/11 04:12 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#55413 - 06/02/11 03:42 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Ghostly1]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
It is widely known that Muslims killed at the WTC were seen as martyrs for the cause


They were not "martyrs", they were innocent bystanders who in all reality wanted nothing to do with Al-Qaida. Al-Qaida does not speak for all Muslims, ESPECIALLY after they kill unwilling Muslim bystanders and then claim it's okay because they died "for God".

 Quote:
and to me it was left at that


Maybe you should ask their American family members, since they're apparently so proud of their kin being martyred.

 Quote:
On the other hand Patterson NJ was on the news shortly after the towers fell, with the whole Muslim community cheering and dancing in the streets


Cite your news source, please; I have been not been able to find any verification of this.

 Quote:
The Muslim world didnt seem to be too taken aback by it.


What, the prolific apologies and disclaimers from countless Muslims worldwide don't count? Heck, I still hear Muslims trying to explain that they're not terrorists.

But yes, there were also many Muslims, mostly in less affluent countries in the middle east, that did celebrate, because they live in a region of the world where all they hear about the US is how much we hate Islam, team up with Israel to bully Palestine, and want to ruin the middle east. (And then just to prove them wrong by doing exactly that, which in turn helped gain a few educated supporters of jihad as opposed to the usual mindless sheep).

Both Western warmongers and Islamic extremists want their own people to think that the other side hates everything they stand for, so they can make cultural differences seem like a life-or-death struggle in order to convince people to die for their cause. They are self-fulfilling prophecies.


Edited by The Zebu (06/02/11 03:49 PM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#55416 - 06/02/11 04:01 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: The Zebu]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu

 Quote:
On the other hand Patterson NJ was on the news shortly after the towers fell, with the whole Muslim community cheering and dancing in the streets


Cite your news source, please; I have been not been able to find any verification of this.


That's because it's erroneous.

The dancing was in the middle east.

In New Jersey, 5 Israeli guys were arrested for their public display of happiness. The FBI let them go (deported them) after finding them free from suspicion.

Some folk say they were Mossad... (1:42 in the video?) Not sure myself... but interesting.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

Top
#55513 - 06/06/11 12:06 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: The Zebu]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
This will be my final argument in this thread, meaning my last testimony for my case. Despite all the criticism I have received for my perceived ignorance, and racial bias I strongly believe after reviewing what I have to show you all my claims will be justified, and some eyes opened to the truth.

Islam: What the west needs to know

The above link is for Netflix customers to view a film. You can join for a free trial and cancel and still watch this movie free.

If you choose not to see my evidence, as I chose not to read the Qur'an so be it. This film was one of the reasons I chose not to read that book. Ignorance is frowned upon in Satanism is it not? If I have led you to knowledge and you deny it, the fault lies with you. If you still believe your "friends" are for peace..... after viewing my proof....then you are an idiot....and not to be trusted either.

This forum preaches backing up what you say. If banning is a result of my statements here I will consider it no loss. But I only do so with the benefit of all and of course myself in mind. I cant ignore the truth when its staring me in the face because people believe in the good of human nature. If you would be a Satanist, who questions...... observe what I have offered...and decide for yourself.

Lets hope our futures are not as bleak as this film predicts.....
_________________________
Become a force of nature.

Top
#55568 - 06/07/11 12:54 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Ghostly1]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
Google video version

In case you dont have NetFlix.

I realize this movie will strike some as anti Islamic. That is is a biased look at peaceful people, being peaceful. What I cant ignore are the imbedded video streams of Imams preaching this doctrine verbatim. Ignore it if you wish, but it is a strong argument against the threads original statement.
_________________________
Become a force of nature.

Top
#55578 - 06/07/11 09:52 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Dimitri]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Quote:
Those are Muslims, residing in the US, earning a living here, sending some of that money overseas and this is their reaction to all those people dying?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether you like it or not.
I also find your stance quite hypocrit. How many innocent people has the US killed? I remember pictures of a dead Bin-Laden and streets in the US covered with festivities. I remember the scandal of torturing prisoners in US prisons. I remember the hanging of Hussein and the reaction from the West on those issues.


Remember that first line I highlighted in blue of yours.

What country hasn't done any of those things when they believed they were at war? Hell, for that matter Hussein's own country televised his hanging and many, many people around the entire globe celebrated. So fucking what! As for the prisoners of war, well...that's what they are. At least it wasn't a televised beheading of say….a reporter? But let's not go there, right?

By the way, before you lecture anyone else on writing English correctly again, the word highlighted in yellow is spelt "hypocritical". Fuck, I hate that word! I feel like I'm posting with the goddamned christians again!! That's one of their favorite words to tote about flinging at “non-Christians” like some kind of "high road" badge.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Don't start with the vague notions of being better and more humane then the others, you aren't. The US always had a meddling attitude, it only was a matter of time before someone dared to hit back. For the middle-east it isn't a war on terrorism anymore, for them the matter is MUCH bigger then you think. In the present the west (and more specific: the US) has become an icon of unholy acts, blasphemy and destroying culture. To us it might seem like a war on terror, to them it now is an almost never-ending war against Western fundamentalism.


No where in any of Ghostly's responses did he "start with the vague notions of being better and more humane then the others...". But I guess when you need a reason to slam at American's you'll find it in just about any post you read. He's talking about what he feels shouldn't occur in HIS country you ninny. Would you be so willing to accept something you believed to be wrong in your own country? You'd fight it tooth and nail if you had the chance, I'm sure.

As for the US meddling in other countries’ affairs, then don't bring it to the US. I'd be willing to bet even your country has asked for the US's assistance a time or two. Monetarily, military, and probably more. You're right, we need to get the fuck out of other countries, let them handle their own bullshit, and while we're at it, pull our money assistance as well. Afghanistan and Pakistan would just love losing those millions of dollars in assistance from the US, now wouldn't they?!

Last observation...usually, just usually, fighting fear, contempt and hatred with the same does not change a person's mind. Especially when that person is talking about their OWN country and what they will or will not accept THERE. At least Nemesis, Zebu and others made points that were worth noting and seriously considering, instead of just trying to find a way to take a jab at a "dirty" American. Oh wait…I do believe they are Americans too.…


Edited by Nyte (06/07/11 10:41 PM)
Edit Reason: **Got rid of some of my "betting".
_________________________
If only just for today.....

Top
#55580 - 06/08/11 12:13 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Nyte]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
You are correct in that I wasn't pushing a Pro-American doctrine. But this is America where I reside, and NY is where I live, the same NY which lost two towers nearly 10 years ago with a broad mix of nationalities, and walks of life.

The point Dimitri missed while he was ranting was the people doing the merrymaking, are in the US. Employed in US companies. Living with Americans, and they are celebrating their "neighbors" demise.

For the record it was the Iraqi people who convicted and condemned their own former leader. The US didnt execute him, and it wasn't an act of terrorism. Atrocities will always occur on all sides, prisoners being subjected to embarrassment can be looked down upon, but weighted against the reason they were there you would be hard pressed to find anyone who didnt feel it was deserved after 9/11 in NYC. I dont condone their actions, but then again Im not them either.

I dont speak for the USA. I speak for myself.....and he also missed the mark on that, insinuating that I did. He is far removed from the culture which is here in the US. A pride we share despite the shortcomings in the growth our nation has had since its inception. But with that, a history of aggression followed that our leaders felt was in the best interest of the nation, not necessarily the rest of the world. I dont see it as fair to put me in the same camp as those who bombed Japan.....or whether it was justified or not. War is war. People will die. Denmark, last I checked hasn't been in full scale war with anyone in some time so I expect there to be some softness of the spine. Appeasement and neutrality might work for a small nation, but not for one with the most to lose.
_________________________
Become a force of nature.

Top
#55584 - 06/08/11 01:52 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Ghostly1]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I watched the movie you recommended on Netflix earlier today. It does raise some valid points about Islam being anything but peaceful. I particularly liked how they brought up the concept of abrogation as it pertains to the Koran. It is a very important thing to consider when looking at Islam.

However, one of the people interviewed certainly displayed a biased slant towards Christianity. And a few of the things he said about Islam could just as easily describe Christianity. Not that it discredits entirely what was said by him and the other interviewees but it does arouse a little suspicion.

Overall it wasn't a waste of time and I think anyone who sees Islam as "just another religion" should watch it.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#55590 - 06/08/11 06:30 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
Absolutely, Fundamentalist Christians worry me just as much, but for different reasons. Just watch this movie to see what I mean, the brainwashing is just as complete and resonant within the community they present. It is also available on Netflix as well.

Jesus camp

No one would argue having a church of Christian variety near ground zero, but people do feel uncomfortable with children protesting such as seen in this documentary. But strapping explosives to your kids is much more extreme.
_________________________
Become a force of nature.

Top
#55616 - 06/09/11 01:03 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Ghostly1]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Absolutely, Fundamentalist Christians worry me just as much, but for different reasons. Just watch this movie to see what I mean, the brainwashing is just as complete and resonant within the community they present.

Don't worry, they're all focused on things other than your (or my) destruction. Kowtowed and used to taking orders isn't a bad way to have them ;\)
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

Top
#55773 - 06/13/11 12:02 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Nyte]
Dedalus Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 51
Loc: Ireland



 Quote:
By the way, before you lecture anyone else on writing English correctly again, the word highlighted in yellow is spelt "hypocritical".


Perhaps the overseas spelling of the word "spelled" is different to what I'm used to. I hope so. That's neither here nor there. The above response to Dimitri's statement seemed to be comprised more of an automatic and defensive reversion to patriotism than anything else. It does not, in my opinion, constitute a valid rebuttal. A lot of "if you were in their shoes" kind of stuff, and examples of Iraqi wrong-doing. We're all aware of the atrocities commited in Iraq by Hussein, etc. That in no way whatsoever makes it ok for the USA to act in a similar fashion. I believe what Dimitri was doing was drawing a parallel between the two nations to show how they have behaved similarly during times of war, an entirely valid comparison that you seem to have attempted to shrug off by insisting that someone else started it.

I'm not concerned with most of the subject matter, to be honest, so I'll leave most of it alone. The only real issue I took with all of this is, and the bulk of the reason I bothered to construct a response, is your stance on human rights. To use your technique, if I may, I would like to suggest that your view on the poor treatment of political prisoners would be different if they were American. In fact, I believe American soldiers/captives have been tortured in the past. But hey, that's ok, right?

 Quote:
As for the prisoners of war, well...that's what they are.


Wow. Even if they were actually guilty of anything (most were not), your attempt to justify your nations torture of prisoners astounds me.


I don't hate America. It has positive and negative qualities like anywhere else. Dimitri may have been quick to denounce the USA. But was he wrong? All those things he remembers, I remember too. I expect, if anything, another anger-fueled response with more raised hackles than reasoning. I do hope I'm wrong.
_________________________
Let us represent worthily for once the foul brood to which a cruel fate consigned us.

Top
#55799 - 06/13/11 07:46 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Dedalus]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
Many different countries around the world have a long standing history of torturing prisoners of war. The Japanese were particularly cruel to American GI's in the pacific simply because they viewed anyone not of Japanese decent to be beneath them. Much like the earlier colonial slave owners of pre-twentieth century America. Lets not leave out the Viet Cong, and North Vietnamese and the brutality suffered there. The Muslim jailors were fond of beheading publicly their captives for the sake of good press.

Make no mistake, the United States is not getting off easy. But despite not having signed the Geneva convention, we still abide by its rules. Exceptions are you have seen are punished severely. You cannot compare circus games in Gitmo with the savagery many others in our countries history have witnessed, not even touching upon the Holocaust. People forget many of those killed were POLITICAL prisoners.....and some were German as well.

The treatment of POW's bears no reasoning as to the purpose of the thread which was a Mosque on the site of America's worst tragedy.
_________________________
Become a force of nature.

Top
#55843 - 06/14/11 01:57 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Ghostly1]
Dedalus Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 51
Loc: Ireland
 Quote:
The treatment of POW's bears no reasoning as to the purpose of the thread which was a Mosque on the site of America's worst tragedy.


Agreed. I was outlining the problem(s) I had with Nyte's view on that subject, and got comletely off topic, my apologies. In short, while I feel that I understand the sentiment to be one of building bridges between America and non-violent Muslims, the notion of building a mosque on or near Ground Zero strikes me as an insensitive, foolish idea, one bound to be viewed by many as a great insult, and one which can only lead to trouble, in my opinion.
_________________________
Let us represent worthily for once the foul brood to which a cruel fate consigned us.

Top
#55861 - 06/14/11 10:49 PM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Dedalus]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Dedalus
Perhaps the overseas spelling of the word "spelled" is different to what I'm used to. I hope so. That's neither here nor there.


So why bring it up? Next time, look up the word first, before someone has to correct you too. I did not misspell the word spelled. I wrote spelt for a reason. You figure it out. Hint: Online dictionary.

 Originally Posted By: Dedalus
The above response to Dimitri's statement seemed to be comprised more of an automatic and defensive reversion to patriotism than anything else.It does not, in my opinion, constitute a valid rebuttal. A lot of "if you were in their shoes" kind of stuff, and examples of Iraqi wrong-doing. We're all aware of the atrocities commited in Iraq by Hussein, etc. That in no way whatsoever makes it ok for the USA to act in a similar fashion. I believe what Dimitri was doing was drawing a parallel between the two nations to show how they have behaved similarly during times of war, an entirely valid comparison that you seem to have attempted to shrug off by insisting that someone else started it.


I shrugged off nothing. I will not however explain why I wrote what I did, just for you. Those that have read past posts know exactly what I WAS referring too. I find it funny you honestly saw that as a comparison. You obviously enjoy the posturing.

 Originally Posted By: Dedalus
I'm not concerned with most of the subject matter, to be honest, so I'll leave most of it alone. The only real issue I took with all of this is, and the bulk of the reason I bothered to construct a response, is your stance on human rights. To use your technique, if I may, I would like to suggest that your view on the poor treatment of political prisoners would be different if they were American. In fact, I believe American soldiers/captives have been tortured in the past. But hey, that's ok, right?

 Quote:
As for the prisoners of war, well...that's what they are.


Wow. Even if they were actually guilty of anything (most were not), your attempt to justify your nations torture of prisoners astounds me.


I don't hate America. It has positive and negative qualities like anywhere else. Dimitri may have been quick to denounce the USA. But was he wrong? All those things he remembers, I remember too. I expect, if anything, another anger-fueled response with more raised hackles than reasoning. I do hope I'm wrong.



You shouldn't have constructed a response perhaps? Because from what's obvious, you certainly didn't pay attention to what you tried to dig apart in my response. I never said anything was "good" or "bad". I simply pointed out...Shit happens that's ugly when a country believes themselves to be at war. Again, SO FUCKING WHAT! That's not what this thread is about, but then again, I see Ghostly did at least get you back on track a bit.

You obviously know nothing of me, or my stance on human rights. You missed a lot in my response (NOT to mention this entire thread!!) and I will not waste any more time rehashing it just for you.

And just so you are aware, you haven’t seen angry in the least bit. At least not from me. It's called irritation and disgust.
_________________________
If only just for today.....

Top
#55864 - 06/15/11 02:56 AM Re: Gut Check: Mosque at Ground Zero? [Re: Dedalus]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Some "apolitical" conjecture.

I will always attempt to stultify those who attempt to bastardize views and writings.

I only view man's ecology and ethology and view him as an endangered species due to the threat he poses unto himself.

I observe professed "atheists" in the west who like to think they are atheists because do not believe in God simply due to dismissing what is God as a strange belief in a universal mind that couldn't possibly be anything to do with them or their friends, they think this makes them an Atheist free of such things, yet they share the same base paradigm centred on slave morality as they have never questioned that the society they have formed their ego within is based on the values of religion that they will never be able to devalue as they have never affirmed that the slave morality values are negative and weak, except to obey slave morality obliviously while it remains deep seated in their minds, hence they will never be able to devalue and make a revaluation about their own master morality. "Why" finds no answer. I'd call them invincibly ignorant slave moralists, passive nihilists, not atheists.

Different countries have different paradigms yet regardless of human superficialities like race, creed, religion, any abstract causal form is only that, an abstraction. What we all are is the same species, humans, expressing the will to power. For a certain Satanist, neo-Nazism, is merely the most terrible and formidable of heresies against slave morality about right now for which to express the will to power.

The sociological causes and effects are base simple and "might is right" any abstract causal form is simply a means to express the will to power and the affirmation of a lacking is what drives the Satanist to strive for the ever increasing ideal maxim, of power. Anyone professing peace while imposing the passive aggressive "equality and peace pathos" is asking to be dominated by the natural impulse nature instils within us, the essence of life itself— the will to power.

Wolves are always alert for signs that prey animals are around and approach cautiously as not to frighten the prey before being near enough. Beast of burden like the oxen and the moose, try to defend themselves from wolves by bunching into a circle with their hindquarters together. It is the defensive stance of prey that causes the wolf to remain inactive, the wolf will not feel the impulse to attack the bewildered stance of prey, so the wolves will culminate the presence of violence within and all around— as soon as the prey bolts, the wolf is irreversibly catalysed to shred the groins from the fleeting prey, bathing in the adrenal saturated blood.

Wolves bearing teeth fall in line, a naturally ordered hierarchy, a revolving and constantly revised order, the wolves are working toward the same goals according to Nature's actualisation of aristocracy. Pity is a man made disease which causes all sorts of complications, ambiguity, cognitive dissonance— pity is an infection. Wolves bearing teeth have respect for one another, for other packs territories and it is only strength and respect that makes the wolf an untamed predator and the oxen a beast of burden for man.

Man is a social animal too, has tribal and pack instincts for which we ought to work with, respecting the territories, hierarchies of different cultures. Invaders who impose passive aggressively cannot hide behind moral ambiguity, it would be like an oxen trying to make a pass of active submission to gain respect in a wolf pack.

Hippies are the same, they laze about smoking dope, bloating their inane subjecture to one another, solidifying their wilted infrastructure about reality, regarding their world peace view as actual reality. Which really they can't fight because they are nervous and effeminate dregs of nature and must console themselves by glorifying their failures into absurd values that exemplify pity, much like the religionist does. They will impose the mediocre, and inferior with a hubris assumption that they have advanced empathy, laying claim to advanced conceptions of humanness. In slave morality, traits such as kindness, compassion, and peace are pushed onto all and every as if the obviousness of it all is somehow elusive. These values were developed as revolt to aristocracy that is viewed as cruel and dangerous to the weak who simply have no will or instinctual drive to take part. Monotheistic values are synonymous with slave morality and seriously undermines the strong by imposing what is unproductive for the strong whilst providing a utilitarian slave moralist with a promising plentitude of mediocrity, their wretchedly content solace and meaning in life.

Hippies attempt to leech off the strong in much the same way, and when caught out they declare "peace" and back-pedal so they may avoid conflict and try again to leech off somebody else, till their luck runs dry again.

I am not some kind of negative racist, only positively racialist insofar as respecting the cerebral and somatic aestheticism of every race and culture on the earth, for individually and disproportionately beautiful qualities.

A certain peoples have a clever idea to invade other cultures peacefully, replacing society and laws in a subtle and subvert way, a chain of repetitiously escalating events, over a period of causal time. A viral memes that perpetuate obsessional cacoethes.

I am a man angry with his people, his nation, and with society as a whole and only wish to cause change and to motivate men, women and young people to value one another, to value life and affirm life. Animals treat their own species with more respect and affection than us humans do, how embarrassing for man who thinks himself so "improved" yet man differentiates his own kind as a different species due to superficialities like skin colour, creed, beliefs.

It is not difficult to respect cultural differences and make communication with ones own kind. In fact people talk too much and do not show enough respect through acts.
_________________________


Top
Page 9 of 11 « First<7891011>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.031 seconds of which 0.003 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.