#41783 - 08/11/10 11:54 AM
Re: the deception of atheism
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6Satan6Archist6
stalker
Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2513
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The Platonic forms are not representations.
Yes they are.
The forms are not non-existent.
Yes they are and you are splitting hairs here. The Forms simply an idea and have no material existence. Just because you are able to talk about something and give it meaning doesn't make it real or give it an existence.
We now get back to the basic point I was trying to make to Caladrius above. How do you personally refute subjective idealism and philosophically legitimate a realist or materialist metaphysics or ontology?
Is this your way of asking how I explain reality, existence etc. without resorting to to imaginary friends? stimulus, response, chemical reactions in the brain, nothing that spectacular really. We live, we die, the end.
You do mention that arguments related to the existence of Set amount to nothing since Set can only be perceived subjectively. (I personally would clarify this and state that Set is perceived or apprehended subjectively under certain special circumstances.) I would invite you to define subjectively and subjectivity philosophically in a concise and clear manner, and then determine the relationship between the philosophical subject and its real object or objectivity, and the constitution of this real object or objectivity.
Sigh. It is quite simple. I have no idea what your subjective reality looks like. For example, I have no way of knowing how you see the color blue. Much like you have no way of knowing how I see the color red. In the objective reality, of which we are all a part (though some more so than others admittedly). In this objective reality there are trees, clouds, rivers and a myriad of other things that both of us, though existing in our own subjective reality i.e. our minds, can point to and say to the other "look at that dog".
However, to say that Set can only be perceived subjectively is to say that it doesn't exist objectively. Ultimately this is just a cop out; you can not prove the existence so you expect people to just believe on faith. To give another example that would be like me saying that I have Lotus Elise and when someone asks for a ride I tell them "Well, it only exists subjectively." Sounds rather silly in that context, doesn't it?
You are fundamentally operating on assumptions without a philosophic grounding.
Philosophy is a good way to think about things in a new way and pass the time but when I want to know about things the way they are, I will look to hard science.
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