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#4168 - 02/13/08 12:14 AM Stolen Generation
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
AUSTRALIAN APOLOGY - THE REAL ONE

We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.

We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise.

We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.

We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.

We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.

We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace the animal skins you used before.

We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.

We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the installments

We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever..

We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.

We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.

We apologise for giving you interest free loans.

We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value.

We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and handing them over to you so that you get all the money.

We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters' wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)

We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your 250,000 people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.

We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year.

We apologise for you having to approach the aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures. For the trouble you will have identifying the "uncle toms" in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty.

We do apologise. We really do.

We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins. We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the "outback", whenever you are ready.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4174 - 02/13/08 02:17 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins. We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the "outback", whenever you are ready.


Are you fucking kidding me? Do you really believe that before the white invasion of Australia, the aboriginals only lived in the outback? You don't think they favoured the nicer areas as we do?

I think what you have written above is very racist and ignorant. And I for one do not want to be catagorized under the same 'aussie' label as you.

Disgusted,

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#4177 - 02/13/08 03:06 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ZephyrGirl]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: ZephyrGirl
 Quote:
We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins. We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the "outback", whenever you are ready.


Are you fucking kidding me? Do you really believe that before the white invasion of Australia, the aboriginals only lived in the outback? You don't think they favoured the nicer areas as we do?

I think what you have written above is very racist and ignorant. And I for one do not want to be catagorized under the same 'aussie' label as you.

Disgusted,

Zeph


By all means, do continue to attack something you fail to fathom and/or comprehend. If I had written that article I would have labelled it as such, and put a relevant "Article by, DaVinci" at the bottom. Clearly you have failed to see the point in said article and wish to jump on the band-wagon and take it out of context to deem it as "racist" or an attack directly on the Aboriginal race.

As for your "favoured nicer areas" statement, what has that got to do with the topic at hand? Nothing. You're asuming, and asuming is never a good tactic to use when debating a topic such as this. Again, for your own clarification: The article was not composed by me.

State your opinion, don't jump on the band-wagon and immediately begin character-attacks. Though you seem to lack any education on the subject, so debate at this present time would prove counter-productive and would only result in more of your gracious attacks at bay.

I also noticed you quoted only one sentence from that entire article - which would lead me to believe that you can atleast agree on most of the statements made. So, exactly what is your opinion on the Apology to the Stolen Generation?
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4178 - 02/13/08 03:09 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I'm shocked at the disaproval Zeph, are the statements mentioned not true, or are you simply annoyed and over-exaggerating this fact, simply by the use of the word outback.

Let's face it. It's not racist what was said, it's observation. Even if the aboriginies did live in these "nicer areas" they still lived like fucking cavemen. What you're arguing is semantics in a desperate attempt to cover the issue addressed by this satirical peice with a mixture of racist accuations and nationalistic disgust. Com'on Zeph, you're better than that.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4182 - 02/13/08 05:07 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
If I had written that article I would have labelled it as such, and put a relevant "Article by, DaVinci" at the bottom.
Really? Well I hadn't read that particular clause in your introduction.
In general, if you reprint an article or composition or opinion by someone else and don't credit the source it's going to look like it was written by you. It's this lack of credit to the proper auther that 'led me to beleive' it was written by you.

 Quote:
I also noticed you quoted only one sentence from that entire article - which would lead me to believe that you can at least agree on most of the statements made.


Well your belief would be totally wrong. I don't feel it is necessary to quote the complete article. I chose one sentence that I found the most ridiculous and used it. I'm seeing too much quoting of lengthy posts only to address one or two lines for my personal taste lately.

 Quote:
State your opinion, don't jump on the band-wagon and immediately begin character-attacks.

What band wagon? Looks like I was the first to respond.

 Originally Posted By: ZephyrGirl
I think what you have [color=red]written [/color] above is very racist and ignorant. And I for one do not want to be catagorized under the same 'aussie' label as you.

They were my 'thoughts' on the written subject matter. A character attack would be - "I think you're a fuckwit, racist, trigger happy looser", which you'll note, is not what I wrote.

As for my opinion on the Apology to the Stolen Generation I think it is a good thing. Sure, there are probably a percentage of Aboriginals that are ungrateful scumbags that don't deserve it, but is that any reason to deny those that do deserve it, the opportunity to begin to heal and put it behind them?
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#4184 - 02/13/08 07:15 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
Equilibrio Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Missouri
I wouldn't say that the original post is racist, per se...But it IS pretty ignorant in terms of value judgment and perspective.

You are under the false impression that aboriginal people were in a constant state of suffering until you came along and "blessed" them with modern convenience.

Seriously...Interest-free loans? What kind of fucking white elephant is THAT? Where are the casinos?!

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#4185 - 02/13/08 07:46 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ZephyrGirl]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
Really? Well I hadn't read that particular clause in your introduction. In general, if you reprint an article or composition or opinion by someone else and don't credit the source it's going to look like it was written by you. It's this lack of credit to the proper auther that 'led me to beleive' it was written by you.


Seemings as its original source has been taken offline, I felt no need to off-link to the original source as it would only waste valuable time and would be a broken link.

 Quote:
What band wagon? Looks like I was the first to respond.


"Disgusted" "Racist" "Ignorant" etc. are all jumping on the band-wagon and throwing accusations across the board. You jumped to conclusions, stating that what was written was a racist statement by myself. If I did not credit myself as being the author; then you have jumped on the band-wagon.

 Quote:
As for my opinion on the Apology to the Stolen Generation I think it is a good thing. Sure, there are probably a percentage of Aboriginals that are ungrateful scumbags that don't deserve it, but is that any reason to deny those that do deserve it, the opportunity to begin to heal and put it behind them?


Why should we apologise? Are we the one's who commited such offences? No. Did we condone, advocate or participate in said offences? No. I sure as hell didn't, and most people alive today didn't. Why should we all be forced to apologise to a bunch of ungrateful morons who are saying now that an apology from the Government and the rest of the Australian Community isn't 'good enough'?

Apparently what we have provided for them just isn't good enough. So why bother trying to be nice to someone when you know for a fact that they're just going to literally throw it straight back in your face?
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4192 - 02/13/08 04:11 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
Seemings as its original source has been taken offline, I felt no need to off-link to the original source as it would only waste valuable time and would be a broken link.
Yes, yes, much better people here think that YOU wrote it. I notice that in your signature you quote Jose Narosky, without linking it to an outside source. You could have quite easily done the same thing.

Actually the fact that you then didn't comment on the piece yourself, choosing rather to plagerise it, tells me much about you DaVinci.

From now on I shall be taking it, that everything you put up here has been similarly stolen.

"Next"........- Morgan ;\)

 Quote:
Why should we apologise? Are we the one's who commited such offences? No.


Oh, I didn't realise they wanted you out there personally apologizing. Jeez, here I was thinking it was the Government that apologized..........

 Quote:
Why should we all be forced to apologise to a bunch of ungrateful morons who are saying now that an apology from the Government and the rest of the Australian Community isn't 'good enough'?


I'm not going to argue whether they are grateful or not. Some are, some aren't and like I said in my last post is that enough reason to deny those who ARE grateful?

I suggestion Davinci, if you are going to post something that was totally written by someone else, credit them with it and then comment on it. If we were to all use your attitude and post articles with no comment, it would fast become boring around here.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#4195 - 02/13/08 05:41 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ZephyrGirl]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
Yes, yes, much better people here think that YOU wrote it. I notice that in your signature you quote Jose Narosky, without linking it to an outside source. You could have quite easily done the same thing.

Actually the fact that you then didn't comment on the piece yourself, choosing rather to plagerise it, tells me much about you DaVinci.

From now on I shall be taking it, that everything you put up here has been similarly stolen.

"Next"........- Morgan


Please, do elaborate on what you happen to 'know' so much about me. Signatures do not require an outside link, if incase you have come under recent retina-raging disadvantages, you will notice that it is a quote with the original authors name set beside. As for placing a name on the article, the author him/herself never labeled it as such and, because it has been entered into public domain, it can be used as please with no copyright notices.

So, quit your whining child and come up with something new other than the fact the original author and myself have not labeled the article with a name.

 Quote:
Oh, I didn't realise they wanted you out there personally apologizing. Jeez, here I was thinking it was the Government that apologized..........


I'm guessing here you're as bad at politics as you are at cooking. Let me put this in small-mind mode just for you: Australian Government is elected by Australian citizens, said elected Government works on behalf of said citizens. Said Government also represents the voice of said citizens to other nations, as well as their own.

In other words "If they're apologising, I'm technically included in that."

 Quote:
I suggestion Davinci, if you are going to post something that was totally written by someone else, credit them with it and then comment on it. If we were to all use your attitude and post articles with no comment, it would fast become boring around here.


I would take your suggestion, but I don't intend on changing my personality at any stage during my life. I would also take your suggestion if I deemed taking your suggestion/s worthy of consideration. However after your responses you've made it quite clear that you're as ignorant as the article you claim to despise. It would be an oxymoron to accept any form of 'suggestion' from yourself.

"Next"........- Morgan ;\)
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4197 - 02/13/08 06:45 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
As for placing a name on the article, the author him/herself never labeled it as such and, because it has been entered into public domain, it can be used as please with no copyright notices.


Actually, you are WRONG.


 Quote:
I'm guessing here you're as bad at politics as you are at cooking.
Gee it didn't take you long to start throwing insults. Bad at cooking? Whatever on earth gave you that idea?
Thanks for the laugh though. I'm going to now ignore any more of your childish baiting and let this thread speak loud and clearly for itself!

In self service,

ZephyrGirl
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#4199 - 02/13/08 08:10 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ZephyrGirl]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
Gee it didn't take you long to start throwing insults. Bad at cooking? Whatever on earth gave you that idea?
Thanks for the laugh though. I'm going to now ignore any more of your childish baiting and let this thread speak loud and clearly for itself!


I figured if you had to sink as low; I'd sink with you. Afterall, a good soldier never leaves a man behind. ;\) Besides, clearly you lack any moral standards when it comes to throwing racist accusations around the room - so debate at this point is nonexistant, and why would I waste my time debating with someone who's a hypocrite to their own statements?

 Quote:
Actually, you are WRONG.


Actually, I'm right. As the author has not been verified, anyone who publishes said article is infact within their rights. If the site does not hold said contents Copyright, then it is entered into public domain and can then be used for personal, non-commercial purposes. If I was attempting to sell the article, then it would be a different story.

Moving on. If you have nothing of value or interest to contribute to the threads herein, then don't respond in the future. ;\)
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4213 - 02/13/08 09:55 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
If I might dare to throw Satanic philosophy around in here...

One of the foundational texts of Modern Satanism is "Might is Right" by Ragnar Redbeard aka the New Zealander known as Arthur Desmond. What would Ragnar have to say about this. Is this a Satanic position?

No society has very much value to the mass of the human race (or to it's self) if it does not survive to further propagate it's culture. You could be the most enlightened culture of all time but this is worthless if Huns wipe you off the face of the earth.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#4215 - 02/13/08 11:33 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
If I had written that article I would have labelled it as such, and put a relevant "Article by, DaVinci" at the bottom.
 Quote:
Seemings as its original source has been taken offline, I felt no need to off-link to the original source as it would only waste valuable time and would be a broken link.
It was obvious to me that you weren't the author of the article. However, that being said, you should have sited your source. It looks like you tried to pass this off as your own writing. Whether that source is now a dead link or not, users should know it's source.

 Quote:
As for using quotes from silly authors to prove a religious point; I would not stoop to such levels. When engaging in debate one must voice HIS/HER OPINIONS and not the ideals, values, and opinions of those who especially, do not currently reside on the earth and live in society as we know it. The point of debate is to have your say, not to tell tales of the bewildered.
 Quote:
Often at times if I am engaged in debate with someone, and they post quote here and quote there, I find it hard to take them seriously. By doing so they lack the ability to show any volume, substance or character in their debate tactics. Having to resort to quotes (as a means for opinion) doesn't justify anything - it only shows that he/she does not hold a valid opinion of their own and thus; people like me will come along and rip their argument to pieces.
So which are we to believe? You post an opinion of someone else, having stated that you would not stoop to that level. Do you not hold a valid opinion of your own? Are you going to rip your own argument to shreds now? Very oxymoronic.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#4216 - 02/13/08 11:33 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: Fist]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
As I'm not a Satanist, and don't rely on the thoughts of others to justify my own opinions, it is not my place to say what I believe Ragnar would have said. None of us know what he would have said, nor does the opinion of a dead-man matter at this present moment. This isn't an attack against what you said, it's just if one takes the opinions and views of a dead man, one is as bad as Christianity.

This isn't a Satanic position, as Satanic value and ideology does not control the Government here in Australia (not that I'm aware of anyway) because the only thing controlling this Government is the front-bench. The opinion and view of the average-Joe and Susie doesn't matter when it comes to subjects such as this.

The Aboriginal's believe we owe them everything, that we destroyed this country, etc. etc. However, what they fail to remember is that those who participated in those offences commited decades ago, have since perished. Most of them repented on their death beds to apologise for what had happend. Why should they be allowed to demand apologies off of those who have done nothing wrong?

Why should we apologise for the actions of those commited decades ago? If you want to bring Satanic Philosophy into it, then look at a simple LaVey quote "Responsibility to the responsible." I sure as hell won't take the responsibility for someone else's actions, nor will I ever apologise for something I have not commited.

In Australia; it is practically the opposite of every multi-cultured country on the planet. The black man has more rights, receives benefits that the white man isn't entitled to, etc. So, as to why they are demanding apologies from ourselves and the Government is beyond me. I think we've done enough to attempt to handle the situation by providing them with different things over the years. They receive more assistance from the Government then any of us do.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4217 - 02/13/08 11:36 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: fakepropht]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
It was obvious to me that you weren't the author of the article. However, that being said, you should have sited your source. It looks like you tried to pass this off as your own writing. Whether that source is now a dead link or not, users should know it's source.


Very true. I indeed failed to provide a source however, just after I had copied and pasted it, the source had disappeared. I don't know why or how, unless it was an AFP matter, but the source was gone. That also being said, even though it was located on a website, there was no author name or illustrational name located within the article.

 Quote:
So which are we to believe? You post an opinion of someone else, having stated that you would not stoop to that level. Do you not hold a valid opinion of your own? Are you going to rip your own argument to shreds now? Very oxymoronic.


What I posted isn't an opinion, it's FACT. I don't post the opinions of anyone else bar my own. It was to simply show the rest of you what the facts are behind the recent 'Stolen Generation Apology' so that you may understand a little better.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4219 - 02/13/08 11:50 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Heres the actual Apology. I copied this from The Advertiser website.

TODAY we honour the indigenous peoples of this land, the oldest continuing cultures in human history.

We reflect on their past mistreatment.

We reflect in particular on the mistreatment of those who were Stolen Generations – this blemished chapter in our nation's history.

The time has now come for the nation to turn a new page in Australia's history by righting the wrongs of the past and so moving forward with confidence to the future.

We apologise for the laws and policies of successive parliaments and governments that have inflicted profound grief, suffering and loss on these our fellow Australians.

We apologise especially for the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families, their communities and their country.

For the pain, suffering and hurt of these Stolen Generations, their descendants and for their families left behind, we say sorry.

To the mothers and the fathers, the brothers and the sisters, for the breaking up of families and communities, we say sorry.

And for the indignity and degradation thus inflicted on a proud people and a proud culture, we say sorry. We the Parliament of Australia respectfully request that this apology be received in the spirit in which it is offered as part of the healing of the nation.

For the future we take heart; resolving that this new page in the history of our great continent can now be written.

We today take this first step by acknowledging the past and laying claim to a future that embraces all Australians.

A future where this Parliament resolves that the injustices of the past must never, never happen again. A future where we harness the determination of all Australians, indigenous and non-indigenous, to close the gap that lies between us in life expectancy, educational achievement and economic opportunity.

A future where we embrace the possibility of new solutions to enduring problems where old approaches have failed.

A future based on mutual respect, mutual resolve and mutual responsibility. A future where all Australians, whatever their origins, are truly equal partners, with equal opportunities and with an equal stake in shaping the next chapter in the history of this great country, Australia.


__________________________

Now I realise that it has little impact on the thread, however, I thought that it should probably be posted.

The way I read it (and I'm sure there will be many that disagree), the government is acknowledging that throwing a heap of money and housing isn't actually working and that they are willing to look at differant and new ways of dealing with the situation. I believe quite whole heartedly that by being brave enough to take the first step towards healing by apologizing for mistakes of the past is really very forward thinking and should actually be respected. However this is all only MNSHO.





Edited by ZephyrGirl (02/13/08 11:56 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#4220 - 02/13/08 11:55 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ZephyrGirl]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
Thanks for posting it.

Look, in all honesty, this apology isn't going to accomplish anything. Perhaps the elders will reflect on it and graciously move forward with their lives - but it isn't going to bring back the dead, nor is it ever going to relieve the pain and suffering to those who endured it. Even on the news they're saying that an apology just isn't good enough, they want more & more.

They're using this as an excuse (because the Government is vulnerable) to get many of the things not provided to them for reasons which are basic common sense.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4221 - 02/14/08 12:02 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Apologies never bring back the dead, but that doesn't mean they don't accomplish anything or that they are worthless.

Don't tell me you have never wanted to receive an apology from someone, for something done, even if the apology doesn't fix the transgretion.

I would find that very hard to believe.
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#4222 - 02/14/08 12:30 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ZephyrGirl]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
Shockingly, no.

I've never needed/wanted an apology from someone. Not even at work. There have been things happen in the past, but simple accidents that didn't require an apology.

I can understand where you're coming from, and I think we kinda took off on the wrong foot, but again I just don't see any point to apologising to them. Don't you think they're being a little bit selfish in the fact they think an apology just isn't good enough? No, this isn't a 'Satanic Position' or anything, but they are being selfish after what the Government has both offered and done - and here they sit telling us that it just isn't good enough.

Nothing we can do or say will ever change the past - why demand things off of those that had nothing to do with it?
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4223 - 02/14/08 02:16 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
Don't you think they're being a little bit selfish in the fact they think an apology just isn't good enough?


Who exactly is they? The people that turned their backs on the Nelson when he started on about child abuse and alcoholism after the apology.

Most of what I have read/seen in the news has actually been very positive, with many feeling that the apology will if nothing more, enable the children and grand children of the stolen generation to move on.

I agree that there is a percentage for which it will never be enough, but I said that in one of my first posts. Just maybe not in so many words.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#4240 - 02/14/08 07:42 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
I happen to live in the desert, surrounded by supposedly indigenous people, and I fully agree with the initial post, as do my Koori friends. The whole sorry process (pardon the pun) reeks of racism.

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#4246 - 02/14/08 11:26 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
MY GOD!

Will you girls stop with the bitch fight, seriously, it's like watching two girls in a Manchester drinking pit having a cat fight over who gets to fuck the chav of the week.

First Point. Siteing sources is weak. People who site sources all the time simply have no ideas of there own and becides people don't want 14 links in your damn post they want to hear your opinion not the opinion of 14 other people, especially as people who use forums rarely have time to read through a shit load of articles.

Second Point. This signeture.
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky
THAT IS CREDITING! DaVinci credited who said it originally what more do you fucking want. A website that also says that he said it to back up the fact that he said it. No. You're just being a pain in the fucking ass and you're looking for a string to pull to carry on your pitiful argument.

Third Point. I mention plenty of things without siteing them. I have quoted many people and debated many subjects without siteing anything. Why? Because people don't need to know where I get my information. Unless I have some research of my own or it's something relatively new anyone debating anything with me should already know the sources or they are not worth debating with.

Forth Point. IT'S FUCKING SATIRE PEOPLE! Grow the hell up.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4250 - 02/15/08 12:53 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: TornadoCreator]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

The ways of the old forum always seemed to be if you did not write something then please do not quote it verbatim… Unless in the least you tell us why you think something is funny, why it is worth reposting… Add your own ideas to what you are reprinting from others thoughts… To do otherwise is not contributing to this forum… Also it is usually frowned on, as it seems you are simply plagiarizing others work

Simply put be more than a cut and paste job or parrot…

On topic…

When I doubt the authorship of any post I find a simple Google search usually tells all… Variations of this bit are all over the internet…

We Americans have had similar issues with our Native American and African/black population… My bloodline can be traced back to having never fought the Native Americans, quite the opposite actually… My bloodline has also never owned an African slave…

We all suffer and pay in the present for things done in the past… No matter which side you are on… Once we can learn to drop the past then we can start to move forward…

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#4263 - 02/16/08 07:43 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Hey TopCat,

 Quote:
Will you girls stop with the bitch fight, seriously, it's like watching two girls in a Manchester drinking pit having a cat fight over who gets to fuck the chav of the week.


Hmmmmn, then why don't you just fuck off and not watch then? No offense TC, but if DaWenchy and I are enjoying our conversation, or even still, pushing each others buttons, what the hell business is it of yours?

Just because they've given you a blue nametag, doesn't mean your boss of the playground.

Love Zeph

MMMMMMMMMwah
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#4268 - 02/16/08 08:29 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ZephyrGirl]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
I have to agree.

If Zebragirl and myself are enjoyng our slightly unorthodox debate/argument in regards to the Stolen Generation - then you don't exactly have to pay attention. However, I think Zebra and myself can rationalise for the time being and come to an understanding rather then belting it out in the 'forum playground' like a bunch of pseudo-intellectual debutauntes.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4273 - 02/16/08 01:08 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
letusprey Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 10
Loc: sailing vessel
 Originally Posted By: DaVinci
As I'm not a Satanist, and don't rely on the thoughts of others to justify my own opinions


I don't guess, by virtue of the quote above, that you know anything about modern Satanism. If you don't understand, how do you know you aren't one?
Organized religion, at its core, relies upon the thoughts and approval of others. The fundamental tenet if Satanism is Individualism.
_________________________
When your head's in the sand, where is your ass?

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#4291 - 02/17/08 08:57 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: letusprey]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
I don't guess, by virtue of the quote above, that you know anything about modern Satanism. If you don't understand, how do you know you aren't one?
Organized religion, at its core, relies upon the thoughts and approval of others. The fundamental tenet if Satanism is Individualism.


I know more about Modern Satanism than most people. I've studied most religions and found it all to be religious practices that just don't suit me. Infact, I'm not religious at all - I'm not Atheist, Satanist, Christian, etc - I have no religious label. So thereofre, Satanic philosophy means nothing to me in a religious sense.

Don't assume, because if you do, I will rip your argument apart.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4294 - 02/17/08 01:24 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

I have noticed that you seem to believe you can rip apart arguments easily… I know it feels like I have read it enough already…

I present a few of my observations so far…

In your introduction and other posts after it I have watched you deny any religious title… So much so that I feel this is your weakness… You seem to fear religious titles or think yourself above them… Yet right in your introduction you state that you are a Freemason and you believe in a supreme being…

You babble about how your not Atheist, Satanist, etc. yet you fail to see that your belief in a supreme being labels you as a Theist… This is a religious title that covers your beliefs, whatever little nuisances you have worked into them…

In your introduction as in other posts you state that you are well versed in Satanic belief yet you feel no need to associate yourself with this title… You seem to be in denial that you are writing this on a Satanic forum… That act alone associates you with Satanism… Look at the banner above “Community of Satanism and the Occult”…

You go on in your introduction about not using your real name due to previous experiences with spammers, etc… You go on to state that this has made you more mindful (fearful) about PERSEC when using such forums… I seriously doubt that you are a threat to homeland security, you are probably not as important as you think…

I can assure you that any such organization can acquire your location and your name on the internet… To think different would only serve to prove ignorance…

The next move is yours…

~T~

B.T.W. As one who quotes, I ask… Is quoting a two or three sentence post directly above your reply doing anything other than wasting bandwidth and/or hard drive space?*

*not to be confused with proper comment useage
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#4308 - 02/18/08 03:17 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ta2zz]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
If you two want to insult eachother for shits and giggles, fine, go ahead. I really don't give a shit. I'll make sure to keep my nose out of.... oh right, this is a public forum isn't it, keep you damn slanging matches to PM's if you don't want people nosing in on them then you pair of complete fruitcakes.

Clearly I was mistaken in thinking that by being a member here I could discourage people from flaming eachother in the only forum I go on that isn't endless flaming, join in with a conversation and have my say on something that's in the General Conversations section of the forum. My mistake, I'll take my blue nametag and... beat you round your voluptuous naked skull shall I... bloody pain in the arse the both of you. Grow up.

PS: I'm going to rephrase something ta2zz said because it's quite important. Stop quoting the post directly above you, it's the most inane and irritating thing you can do on a forum other than flame. Do you enjoy wasting space or are you trying to insult the attention span of the other members? Stop doing it.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4310 - 02/18/08 05:40 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Hey TC,

Take a chill pill dude. You are only relatively new to the forum don't forget. If there is any problems that needs telling off, or being told to stop, I'll wait for the moderators to do it. In the meantime, how about you Stop doing it, thinking that your opinion on what I should and shouldn't do would mean anything to me.

Are you actively trying to start a flame war? Really!

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#4312 - 02/18/08 11:20 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I've been an active member of the forum now for 4 months. That's plenty of time so don't treat me like some n00b that walked in three days ago, I've been here almost as long as yourself and I've been considerably more active during this time as well.

Secondly, I'm not looking to start flame wars, that's just purile. I am however going to make my opinions heard and have a go at people that attempt to turn our forum into nothing more than a troll board. I don't care is my opinions mean nothing to you. If the only people you're going to listen to are the moderators you are a sad and immature person who is going to become resented by everyone else in here. This is a gathering of intellectuals, not the spam on 4Chan's /b/ or Something Awful, don't dismiss them just because they can't ban you.

Also, I will point out, the blue nametag means that my posts have merit. It is not licence to rule over you but I have it and you don't. The reason I have it is because I have contributed a lot to the site and continue to do so as best I can. Have respect for it, those of us with these nametags have actually EARN'T them. That's not to say you haven't contributed, but, actually it does make me an important member of the site.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4318 - 02/18/08 03:27 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Just because you're a post whore and I tend to post only when something really moves me to do so, does not mean that you are anymore of an important part of this forum.

If this forum was just about the people with blue nametags it would be pretty slow and boring. Actually, you have your own 'special' forum, which I noticed is yet to be used and is currently 'closed'. No one can be too rushed to want to hear what you've got to say away from the uunintelligent, childish masses as myself.

Right now, there are at least 5 people on this forum who have at one stage or another had a blue nametage like yourself. Are you trying to tell me that their posts no longer have merit?

The point that you are so obviously failing to grasp is that I was also making my opinions heard, something that I will do as vehemenantly as yourself and have no intention of turning this site into a troll board. Arguments happen here that are not always conducted in the manner which you seem to have decided they should have.

If you read through the posts again, you will see that DaWenchy and I had already agreed to disagree and it probably was only kept going by yourself, so if you don't think that's starting a lot of bullshit, then you're a complete zombie.

SA_TAN aka Zephyrgirl
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#4319 - 02/18/08 04:24 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: TornadoCreator]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Hi just showing I’m never afraid to add my thoughts, and have changed for no one… I am also not here to defend anybody, as they are fully capable…

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
I've been an active member of the forum now for 4 months. That's plenty of time so don't treat me like some n00b that walked in three days ago, I've been here almost as long as yourself and I've been considerably more active during this time as well.

Many of us have been around for years TC, not counting the downtime of the site either… Zeph was a member of the last incarnation of the forum… So please do think about that when you compare and praise your four months like a medal…

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Secondly, I'm not looking to start flame wars, that's just purile. I am however going to make my opinions heard and have a go at people that attempt to turn our forum into nothing more than a troll board.

As we all should… You should also remember that there are moderators on this forum that are active…

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
I don't care is my opinions mean nothing to you. If the only people you're going to listen to are the moderators you are a sad and immature person who is going to become resented by everyone else in here.

To me TC saying that someone not caring about your opinion doesn’t bother you, is a clear indicator that it does… To say that all will resent Zeph is only a fabrication of your perception…

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
This is a gathering of intellectuals, not the spam on 4Chan's /b/ or Something Awful, don't dismiss them just because they can't ban you.

You are just another user here TC that is the reality of it all… This site has an owner and most of us appreciate the fact that he put this place here… I myself think the place improved now that he is back in action… You enjoy his creation then why not respect his enforcement system that allows even your behavior?

There can be a lesson in anything said, I think very little written thought is ever totally dismissed here…

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Also, I will point out, the blue nametag means that my posts have merit. It is not licence to rule over you but I have it and you don't.

And people tried to tell me that the blue name thing went to my head? There was an old post that explained the whole colored names thing… Too bad you cannot read it…

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
The reason I have it is because I have contributed a lot to the site and continue to do so as best I can. Have respect for it, those of us with these nametags have actually EARN'T them.

I can just sit and chuckle at all of this… Earned a colored name on an internet forum… What are you? What have you become?

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
That's not to say you haven't contributed, but, actually it does make me an important member of the site.

Well it is working for you then…

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You seem overly emotional in all of this… I remember reading something about you being depressed now you seem overly self important and angry … I don’t remember if you told us or not if you are bipolar but chill out yourself man…

Think about all this off topic bickering you have started… At least the two that started disagreeing were on topic…

You have issues friend, just like your need to rephrase my words to turn my question written to make someone think for him or herself, into your command to stop quoting posts…

Have a nice day

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#4324 - 02/18/08 08:17 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ta2zz]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Ok. I think I'm going to leave this topic as it is now. It's not worth the pointless arguing. It's getting nowhere, for everyone in question and just causing stupid bickering... plus I've serverely lost the high ground now reading back on it... I was still right though because I say so, and I'm always right.

 Quote:
Earned a colored name on an internet forum… What are you? What have you become?


The guy with the blue name who has too much free time on his hands and a slight superiority complex. I'm not going to delude myself otherwise. It may be a pointless achievement but it's still something.

You are however, ta2zz, the third person to suggest that I may be bipolar this week alone. Strange. I never even considered it before.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4325 - 02/18/08 09:16 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I'm going to go out on a limb and address the original topic at hand. Quite honestly, the only ones who have valid opinions on this issue are Australians, both the native Aboriginies and the descendants of British convicts. What's going on there is not quite the same as what went on with the Spanish and English conquering America's Native tribes, or enslavement of African peoples. It started out in a similar manner, what with the British thinking that these poor souls needed some 'culture' and 'civilization', and the worst thing of all--'religion'.

But here's my opinion anyhow--

Americans know they fucked up an entire continent inhabited by these indigenous tribes, socially, economically and environmentally. We get that. We learn about it in school. We don't have this lingering guilt about the whole thing though, because while the Indians were at the bottom end of society for a very long period of time, we've more than made up for their suffering in giving them protected land (okay, it's the size of a mobile home plot in some cases, but the Indians are so rich now from owning casinos they're buying much of it back for their communities so it evens out), there are tax exemptions for them (because we gave them blankets of disease), blah blah blah.

As Ta2zz pointed out, the majority of our ancestors were not slave owners, were not part of the original settlements that started wars with the natives, but were simply immigrants fleeing disease and poverty in their homelands. My family emigrated from Ireland, Germany and England to the New England area in the late 1900's. While it's a popular emotion to indulge in at the moment, I harbor no "white guilt", because I didn't DO anything, my family didn't do anything, and if anyone thinks that they're gonna pull some unjustified guilt trip on me they can go fuck themselves, whether they're black, red, yellow or the purple pecker eater.

But the "oppressed" cultures that have forced this "conscience" upon white people during the past 100 years is experiencing a hell of a backlash. White people are getting sick and fucking tired of being made to feel bad about things that happened so long ago they had to learn about it in text books. Apologies have been made, thousands of Martin Luther King memorials have been erected across the country, February has been designated as "Black History Month", etc. The realization that black people have had more than enough opportunities given to them (at the expense of other citizens) to become educated, succeed, and live the American dream, and what have most of them done with it? Taken their check from the government and used it to buy 24" rims for their Lincoln Navigators, get a couple of pairs of pants from Sean John, purses and wallets from Louis Vuitton, that sort of thing.

The Native American tribes have done a little better with themselves. They've retained much of their culture and dignity, and many have become owners of large businesses. Just a few months ago, the Seminole Indian tribe here in Florida had enough money in the bank to purchase the entire Hard Rock franchise for $965 million in cash. That's not to say that there aren't many successful black men, but black culture here in the US is so obnoxious, so "we're better than you because you owe us something", it's got people pissed off.

In conclusion, belated apologies accomplish nothing for either side, and never will. The aggrieved party has gotten their Make A Wish fulfilled, and if they take that and be quiet, they won't get another dime from the government. So they'll keep making everyone feel guilty, the gov't will reciprocate, and the whole thing will go on until everyone forgets what it was about in the first place.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#4355 - 02/20/08 12:43 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: ta2zz]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
Ta2zz, I don't know you from a bar of soap, but already you've taken everything out of context so as something my WO taught me during Boot Camp - Put up, or shut up.

 Quote:
You seem to fear religious titles or think yourself above them


Damn straight I am above religious titles. Does that upset you?

 Quote:
You babble about how your not Atheist, Satanist, etc. yet you fail to see that your belief in a supreme being labels you as a Theist… This is a religious title that covers your beliefs, whatever little nuisances you have worked into them…


Theism, Atheism, etc. are all titles. I labeled myself a Freemason - which is not a religious organisation and does not hold any form of doctrine. My belief in a Supreme Being (if you had actually bothered to read anything about Freemasonry before you spat-out this devoid brain-fart) you would notice that it is defined as each individual wishes to define it. That doesn't make me anything.

 Quote:
In your introduction as in other posts you state that you are well versed in Satanic belief yet you feel no need to associate yourself with this title… You seem to be in denial that you are writing this on a Satanic forum… That act alone associates you with Satanism… Look at the banner above “Community of Satanism and the Occult”…


Have you ever actually walked out your front door?

"Title" & "Association" is what I said. Associating myself with a Satanic-orientated website does not mean I am associating myself with Satanic Doctrine or that I'm initiating myself to join a Satanic Organisation. Therefore, I am not associating myself with the title "Satanist" or anything of a religious Satanic title.

 Quote:
You go on in your introduction about not using your real name due to previous experiences with spammers, etc… You go on to state that this has made you more mindful (fearful) about PERSEC when using such forums… I seriously doubt that you are a threat to homeland security, you are probably not as important as you think…


Do you know what OPSEC and PERSEC is? Seemings as you seem to lack brain capacity I'll spit it out for you:

OPSEC - Operation Security.
PERSEC - Personal Security.

OPSEC - Refrains me from conversing about Operations that I might have been involved with, or am currently involved with. This includes disclosing information about deployment dates, locations, units, etc.

PERSEC - Something I apply myself, but is recommended by the Military when using features such as the Internet. PERSEC means that I do not and/or cannot (it depends) disclose personal information about myself. This includes email addresses, phone numbers, addresses, etc.

Clearly your so-called "observations" are completely off the mark, and all you're doing is derailing a perfectly good debateable thread with your so-called "philosophical observations" which in turn, have proven nothing. Tell me, do you care to elaborate on my childhood as well? Perhaps I am also suffering from an illness that only a registered member on an Internet Forum can possibly cure for me seemings as he has the amazing ability to observe and resolve.

 Quote:
B.T.W. As one who quotes, I ask… Is quoting a two or three sentence post directly above your reply doing anything other than wasting bandwidth and/or hard drive space?*


Again, don't take things out of context. Quoting a reply on the forum is fine. Why? Because if you post a post addressing someone (but is not indicated as such) then you look like a babbling fool. If you are address a certain user/post/thread then clearly it is in the best interests of everyone to post it by quoting and replying.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4359 - 02/20/08 04:57 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: DaVinci

 Quote:
You babble about how your not Atheist, Satanist, etc. yet you fail to see that your belief in a supreme being labels you as a Theist… This is a religious title that covers your beliefs, whatever little nuisances you have worked into them…


Theism, Atheism, etc. are all titles. I labeled myself a Freemason - which is not a religious organisation and does not hold any form of doctrine. My belief in a Supreme Being (if you had actually bothered to read anything about Freemasonry before you spat-out this devoid brain-fart) you would notice that it is defined as each individual wishes to define it. That doesn't make me anything.


"Theism is the belief in the existence of one or more divinities or deities. There is also a narrower sense in which theism refers to the belief that one or more divinities are immanent in the world, yet transcend it, along with the idea that divinity(s) is/are omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent." - Wikipedia

"the·ism /ˈθiɪzəm/ [thee-iz-uhm] –noun
1. The belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism).
2. Belief in the existence of a god or gods (opposed to Atheism)." - Dictionary.com

You're a damn theist, deal with this fact as you will and stop lying to yourself.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4362 - 02/20/08 06:08 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: TornadoCreator]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
Supreme Being - does not mean God. Pay attention next time.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4363 - 02/20/08 08:39 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
Sven Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
If the term supreme being usually donates to some kind of God, what is a supreme being to you then?
_________________________
A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
Marquis de Sade

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#4364 - 02/20/08 08:45 AM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
Sven Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
Sorry computer glitch

Edited by Sven (02/20/08 08:48 AM)
Edit Reason: Computer glitch
_________________________
A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
Marquis de Sade

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#4372 - 02/20/08 12:54 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: DaVinci
Supreme Being - does not mean God. Pay attention next time.


I was paying attention, I can't help it if you can't understand that God, Deity and Supreme Being are synonymous with eachother. I don't take kindly to the snide remarks from you. I was defending you and agreeing with you on many issues when you first came here and I find myself disliking you more and more because of your arrogance and rude mannerisms. You've changed considerably during your time here and you've become someone quite unpleasent.

Perhaps you should think before speaking because it may just turn out, like now, that you're wrong.

"The term Supreme Being is often defined simply as "God",[1] and it is used with this meaning by theologians of many religious faiths, including, but not limited to, Christianity,[2] Islam,[3] Hinduism,[4] and Deism.[5] However, the term can also refer to more complex or philosophical interpretations of the divine. Many fraternal organizations, especially those which admit members of diverse religious backgrounds (such as Freemasonry) use the term as a generic description, allowing the candidate to adhere to whichever deity or concept he holds to be appropriate." - Wikipedia

"Su·preme Being - (soo-prem')
noun.
God." - Free Online Dictonary

"Main Entry: Supreme Being
Function: noun
: GOD." - Merriam-Webster

"Supreme Being - Noun
* S: (n) God, Supreme Being (the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions)" - Priceton Dictionary

"Noun: Supreme Being
1. The supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions
2. God" - WordWeb Dictionary.

Need I go on or are you ready to leave with your tail between your legs? Thank you everyone, this has been a memorable asswhooping.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4383 - 02/20/08 05:45 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: TornadoCreator]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
I don't mean this question in a 'rude' way, but do you always believe what is perceived on the Internet - especially Wikipedia? Freemasons define their Supreme Being as anything they wish. This is not limited to something portrayed as 'God' or any other form of deity.

As stated, it said "often defined" - that does not mean all the time, nor does that mean that all set individuals who believe in a Supreme being believe in the existance of/a God. All these Internet scally-wag tales of the bewildered that "show" you what the belief in a Supreme Being are more often than not incorrect and based souly on the individual/s creating said articles.

I'm not a "Theist" or any other form of belief. Those are labels created to categorise individuals. Even by being a Satanist one is labeling themselves and out-dragging their individualism; though this is not an attack on Satanism.

As for your opinion about me - that is, as always, respected and noted. However I haven't changed, nor have my beliefs and/or process of religious preference changed. Just because you defended me, doesn't mean we're "best buds" and that I'm automatically always going to agree with you. Your words of defending me are noted and certainly appreciated; but I won't hold-back on my opinions simply because we've been conversing coherently for the past few weeks.

As for being wrong, I beg the differ. Individualism is free-thought, I'm a free-thinker. If I wasn't, only then would I label myself a "Theist" and accept such a title. But until that day arises (which it won't) I won't label myself with such categories, nor will I ever accept a title created that out-drags individualism in its highest context.

You're a smart bloke, and I would never even consider discouraging that. Again, your defending arguments are appreciated, but that doesn't make us best mates nor will it stop me from having my say.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4385 - 02/20/08 05:46 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: Sven]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
Absolutely anything that I wish to define it as. It's certainly not a 'God' but that doesn't necessarily make it a deity either.
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"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4404 - 02/20/08 11:19 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
As eloquent and resonable as your post was it doesn't alter the fact that in this case you are simply being closed minded. Accept when you're wrong and don't lie to the point of convincing yourself because you're only sullying your own mind.

When wikipedia said 'often defined simply as "God"', what was ment is often nothing but the word "God" is given as a definition. Similar to if you look up College in a phone book is says 'See "Schools"'. You are taking it out of context and you know it.

I have also found 4 other sources that give the same definition. Just face up to it and admit that you are wrong. You will gain more respect for doing so and you'll not sound like a teenager desperately trying to be an "individual" and in the process following the biggest fucking trend of the 21st century.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4408 - 02/20/08 11:34 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: TornadoCreator]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
As eloquent and resonable as your post was it doesn't alter the fact that in this case you are simply being closed minded. Accept when you're wrong and don't lie to the point of convincing yourself because you're only sullying your own mind.

When wikipedia said 'often defined simply as "God"', what was ment is often nothing but the word "God" is given as a definition. Similar to if you look up College in a phone book is says 'See "Schools"'. You are taking it out of context and you know it.

I have also found 4 other sources that give the same definition. Just face up to it and admit that you are wrong. You will gain more respect for doing so and you'll not sound like a teenager desperately trying to be an "individual" and in the process following the biggest fucking trend of the 21st century.


By your definition, and the definitions of others; I am wrong. However my definition suggests otherwise.

I'm not wrong, nor will I admit to being wrong. If others wish to view/define me as a teenager desperately seeking that trophy-title of "individualism" then so be it.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#4410 - 02/20/08 11:41 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: DaVinci]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
This argument is not only at a stalemate then it is infact completely pointless if you're redefining words as you see fit. You may as well be typing in Welsh for all anyone will care if the words mean something different to you than they do to everyone else who speaks the language.

When you agree to use the English language as it is intended and conform to the methods and practices of communication that the rest of the English speaking world does for the convienience of those you are attempting to converse with then I will gladly entertain another conversation with you however, until then, as I don't understand your particular brand of English, or whatever you call your new, re-defined language I will simply have to either assume you're using actual English or ignore your posts outright. I strongly suggest others do the same, it will save you a lot of time and you'll have one less headache attempting to decipher posts that don't mean what they actually say.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4411 - 02/20/08 11:45 PM Re: Stolen Generation [Re: TornadoCreator]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
Ignore away, mate. Ignore away..
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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