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#42056 - 08/19/10 11:48 AM How has Greater Magic changed you?
Duende Offline
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Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 75
Loc: USA

Utilization of Greater Magic over the years has had a cumulative effect on how I perceive myself. This is what I most value about GM. It seems that GM creates a temporary environment in which the ego can come to see itself, without the constant barrage of the moment to moment demands and distractions of society.
The non Satanist can practice ritual and be convinced that the demons and archdevils he calls upon are external entities. He is unaware that in doing so, he is separating himself from the true source of magic, his ego, by maintaining it in a divided state.
The Satanist calls upon the same demons and devils but understand them as aspects of his ego, his SU. He understands his ego is not just a limited personality but a complex universe of limitless potential.
I remember when I was a naive youth and believed that GM only occurred in the Ritual Chamber or when I desired it to. Now, I see my life as GM. GM served to illustrate the hidden reality that is available to us at every moment. I now see the Ritual Chamber as a sacred place where I celebrate all that I am.
I wonder just how much GM can alter our understanding of ourselves.

What impact if any, has Greater Magic had on your understanding of your ego/psyche?
Do you now see yourself and the world around you in a different way than you did prior to practicing GM?

Duende
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#42063 - 08/19/10 01:32 PM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: Duende]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
What impact if any, has Greater Magic had on your understanding of your ego/psyche?
Do you now see yourself and the world around you in a different way than you did prior to practicing GM?

1) None
2) No.

The only thing which you can describe as an effect or use of GM is that I'm fairly gifted to speak towards crowds. How did I achieve and became better at that skill -> practice before small audiences and mental exploration and study.

Can we now please get back in describing reality in normal human terms or are we going to continue to describe it in special and vague word constructs?
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#42090 - 08/19/10 09:26 PM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: Dimitri]
Lamar Offline
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Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
Well for me, Greater Magic or more personally internal Magic, has aided in self-reflection. For an example, I meditate upon myself and a trait I would wish to recognize and change. Then by utilizing an archetype I put myself in tune with the attributes to cause internal change. I have expaned this working in my personal rituals by bringing a broader aproach to mythology. I've been utilizing Slavic mythology recently, with Chernobog (Tchort) and Morena.
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#42329 - 08/24/10 12:06 AM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: Dimitri]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1139
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Can we now please get back in describing reality in normal human terms or are we going to continue to describe it in special and vague word constructs?


Seriously? This is a forum based on Satanism and drawing mostly from LaVey's works, including the Satanic Bible, which mentions Greater Magic, Ritual Chamber, etc. If you don't find these concepts interesting or worthy of discussion, OK. Not every Satanist feels the need to do the whole "ritual" aspect, and that's fine, but it's a recognized and common aspect of Satanism so there's no need to go around knocking those who do. If someone gets a little too caught up in it, yeah, give him a hard time. But Duende here seems to have a solid grip on what's real and what's not, and clearly sees rituals as a psychological tool.

Besides, if you're really that uninterested in the topic, maybe you should have stayed out of a thread with "Greater Magic" in the title or the forum specifically marked "The Occult."
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#42332 - 08/24/10 12:59 AM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: XiaoGui17]
Lucifer Rising Offline
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Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Ouch, Xiao just metaphorically hit Dimitri in the nuts with a baseball bat. She makes a good point though.

I can't say that the practice of GM has changed my understanding of my ego, as I was working to understand that before even claiming Satanism. I do see myself and the world around me differently, but isn't that exactly what GM is suppose to do anyway? I have more confidence, and the world has changed from a Hell I must endure to a Hell of my dominion.

It is better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven.
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#42341 - 08/24/10 03:17 AM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: XiaoGui17]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
This is a forum based on Satanism and drawing mostly from LaVey's works, including the Satanic Bible, which mentions Greater Magic, Ritual Chamber, etc. If you don't find these concepts interesting or worthy of discussion, OK.

Never said that discussing these concepts is a no-can-do, but using terms such as SU and OU and many others in other topics because you think they sound more "catchy" then the plain terms, which are far more effective and less vague, is but an indication of your weak mind and craving for "something" beyond. It also shows the fact you are but an ignorant bitch who likes to play with words to hide your real ignorance.

Get a grip on life and fuck off?
I have no need for your posturing nor hollow words and fairy-view of life.
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#42342 - 08/24/10 06:53 AM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: Dimitri]
TV is God Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
Yeesh, the gloves sure came off there didn't they?

Dimitri, I think you do have a point about philosophical terms being over-mystified. I understand the annoyance of people stretching and twisting meanings of the logical into the illogical. I would agree that if the standard were more direct there'd be less misinterpretation but I'd also have to agree with XiaoGui's point about accepting that it is the standard.

I don't think using the less direct terms necessarily is a sign of a crave for mysticism (and even when it is some people just crave that mysticism. Some like to dramatize logic. I don't see any problem with it as long as they actually mean the logic behind it.) The fact is, for better or for worse, the mystified terms are the standard.

It seems to me that the language in LaVey's writing was meant to mislead and confuse those that weren't willing to understand actual meanings. To confuse those that didn't really want to get it. But more so I think it was because it's just plain more fun. And between intelligent people this fun shouldn't get in the way of debate.

Whatever your opinion is on the terms you have to accept that there are certain standards of communication that it's more effective to just go with than fight even if you feel they're misleading. I understand we're all sick of fights over semantics but you have to see that this is just one more fight over words and not meanings.

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#42343 - 08/24/10 07:43 AM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: TV is God]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
Yeesh, the gloves sure came off there didn't they?
In comparisation with other people, I at least dare to speak my mind disregarding possible consequences. And I was never and will never be afraid to get my hands dirty.

 Quote:
I would agree that if the standard were more direct there'd be less misinterpretation but I'd also have to agree with XiaoGui's point about accepting that it is the standard.

And yet I say it is not the standard. It has been some time now that I'm very annoyed with the unthoughtfull use of terms and concepts such as SU, OU, GBM, GM, LM and many others. I have noticed people are tempted to forget that GM and LM are but terms to describe many different actions (notice the plural!). A question such as "How has GM changed you" is a question which can only arise from a lack of understanding what these terms really are. He (and many others) assumes or has made the assumption it can be described as 1 action. That GM is something like "doing a ritual" with many different setups and colors. Guess what, my speeching comment was sarcastic. GM is but a term to describe actions a person undertakes who have an influence on his self and/or great amounts of people. It's even so that GM doesn't exist. GM is but an interpretation with the knowledge of a "why?" of actions. Everything can be called GM as long as you manage to give the right twist around it.

An example: I teach 1st graders philosophy and share my ideas about certain philosophical stances. What I do is teaching. But it can also be called GM because I'm also sharing my views and somewhat influencing my pupils.

Same goes for events where I speak to masses during a protest, convince my friends or other people to get something done and many other cases which can be labeled as GM.
Instead of calling these things GM I prefer to call them in real world terms for what they truly are: speeching, voicing opinions, manipulation, teaching, etc etc..
It's straight-forward, describes what has been done and gives a way better feedback to see if someone actually is "the big deal". Terms such as GM, GBM, LM, LBM, OU, SU, and many others which are being used too often during discussion only covers up the fact that a person is a fucking retard, an ignorant bitch and someone with an over-inflated ego without depth. It only indicates that the person somehow wants to feel special over a trivial fact which can be called GM or LM. I really double-dare anyone here in telling and describing events and undertaken actions without themselves referring of "use of GM or use of LM". I'm quite sure that only a handfull will manage to tell something worthwhile and me being impressed.

If you choose those vague concepts as a standard then I may have very bad news to tell you..

 Quote:
Whatever your opinion is on the terms you have to accept that there are certain standards of communication that it's more effective to just go with than fight even if you feel they're misleading.

As said before, I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and will not stop before I managed to make a change or adressed the situation. I simply refuse to let things "flow their way" if they are full of BS.

The issue I'm adressing here would be one of cutting the bullshit and start comming down from you puffycloud. If you want to be seen as "the real deal", make at least sure your life is worthwhile without spicing it up with "mystic" sounding terms. You are not more Satanic or "elite" or interesting and intelligent by the use of such terms. I like to compare it to the scene wherein gothics get in a fight over "who is the most gothic" based on the records they own and kind of make-up they wear.

Take a look at occultism, how many people interested in the occult would be impressive if you adress and change their mystic concepts towards real-world terms? Almost everyone in reality has barely an influence or an impressive life behind them. Rip off the mystic terms and concepts of the pope, what is he? Just a man dressed up as a penguin whose intellectual level and life can be described as "dull and retarded". Take a look at Gilmore, what would he be without his self-claimed title of high-priest? He is at the same level as Blackwood, with the sole difference he has better writing and speaking skills and inherited an organisation..


Edited by Dimitri (08/24/10 08:22 AM)
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#42345 - 08/24/10 08:18 AM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: Dimitri]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I have to agree with Dimitri, if stuff is just full of bullshit, its full of bullshit.

Using terms because they make you feel special or deep when they are just fucking unnecessary is bullshit posturing.

"I understand the annoyance of people stretching and twisting meanings of the logical into the illogical.....Whatever your opinion is on the terms you have to accept that there are certain standards of communication that it's more effective to just go with than fight even if you feel they're misleading. I understand we're all sick of fights over semantics but you have to see that this is just one more fight over words and not meanings."

So to you, it is better to accept something illogical than take a stand for common sense?

In a general reply....
Words have meanings, that is what dictionaries are for. I am just kinda sick and annoyed by people playing at word games, and using words that don't mean or have anything to do with the subject. Using words without really knowing what the fuck they mean. It's not smart or mystical to use the wrong word or try to twist your view of a word into something its not. It just makes you look dumb.

If you are going to discuss the effects of the things you do, then take responsibility for them and call them as they are in the real world. We all live in the real world and are hopefully not just sitting in a room mentally jerking off online because we have no life.

"Instead of calling these things GM I prefer to call them in real world terms for what they truly are: speeching (giving speeches), voicing opinions, manipulation, teaching, etc etc..
It's straight-forward, describes what has been done and gives a way better feedback to see if someone actually is "the big deal". Terms such as GM, GBM, LM, LBM, OU, SU, and many others which are being used too often during discussion only covers up the fact that a person is a fucking retard, ..."

I think that pretty much covers it.

Morgan
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#42348 - 08/24/10 11:48 AM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: Morgan]
TV is God Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
So to you, it is better to accept something illogical than take a stand for common sense?

That's not what I meant at all. I'm saying it doesn't take too long to realize who's using the terms for their logical intended meaning and who's not. I don't think it is illogical to use such terms if used correctly. It's not always bullshit.

If you say OU/SU I hear the same thing as "That which is real/That which is perceived." Same with mystics, they will hear the same too. You can say "pothole" and it'll still sound like "vortex" to them. Those seeking fantasy see it in everything no matter how plain and direct you want to say it.

That being said I personally don't use dramatic terms. I've never bought to much into calling anything "magic." I use plain direct terms to intentionally reflect my grounding in the real world. I will say OU/SU because I don't think they are dramatic puffed up terms and I think the use of "universe" implies a useful context to how they're used.

Points matter, words don't.

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#42350 - 08/24/10 12:42 PM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: TV is God]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
Points matter, words don't.

Example:
"And by the extensive use of Greater magic I managed to gather a fortune".
What can Greater magic mean?

1)
"And by killing a whole village for the oil recources under their feet I managed to gather a fortune".

2) "And by the extensive use of my oral skills I managed to gather a fortune".

3) "And by the extensive use of slaves I managed to gather a fortune".

Lame examples, but it somehow should get the point across that words DO matter. "I have many followers, at least a thousand heads". And if in reality it is but a few hundred. If in science the correct words and explanations aren't used disaster CAN follow. If politicians don't pick out the right words they don't get elected and/or their descisions may loose credibility or simply have no effect.
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#42351 - 08/24/10 01:27 PM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: Dimitri]
Duende Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 75
Loc: USA
Let me chime in on this for just this time.

Terms like SU and OU have been found useful by many Satanists who choose to apply magic in their lives. While they were originally coined by Dr.Aquino (and Dale Seago?) if I am not mistaken, they have had their affect on the greater Satanic aesthetic over time, to the degree where even Peter Gilmore now uses them (including within _The Satanic Scriptures_).
You may have no use for such concepts for your own formulation of magic in your life and that is fine.

I have and will continue to initiate new threads concerning various aspects of Greater Magic, as many Satanists desire to investigate these matters further.

Interestingly, while these threads are specifically on the Occult boardto avoid confusion on the subject matter as well as those who have no interest in it, there are a few who are frightened when they encounter ideas that may not mirror their own.

There are nearly four thousand registered users on the 600 Club. Six or seven are no majority.

Dimriti and his tiny band of "usual suspects" who typically spew vitriol at those whose perspectives and interests do not mirror their own, should just be understood to not be responsible for their actions on this board; they should be treated as flakes upon your shoulder which are to be dusted off.
This insignificant handful of users do not represent the majority of Satanists.

Perhaps one day in the future, they will mature into intelligent adults but for now, do not give them a second of your valuable time by responding to their taunts.
They need you to respond to feel important and justified.
Do not give them the satisfaction.
Do not feed the trolls. ;\)

I anticipate future intelligent responses on the subject of this thread.
How has Greater Magic changed the way you see yourself?
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seeker of the mysteries ......

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#42352 - 08/24/10 01:47 PM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: Duende]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
Terms like SU and OU have been found useful by many Satanists who choose to apply magic in their lives. While they were originally coined by Dr.Aquino (and Dale Seago?) if I am not mistaken, they have had their affect on the greater Satanic aesthetic over time, to the degree where even Peter Gilmore now uses them (including within _The Satanic Scriptures_).
You may have no use for such concepts for your own formulation of magic in your life and that is fine.

1 answer: Monkey like, monkey do.
Btw: who is Aquino? (Rhetorical question). It's not because YOU think, and others, it suits their needs and contributes a bit towards their nearly empty vocabulary that I should use them or not adress the stupid rants they are used in when people like you are trying to look good.

 Quote:
Interestingly, while these threads are specifically on the Occult boardto avoid confusion on the subject matter as well as those who have no interest in it, there are a few who are frightened when they encounter ideas that may not mirror their own.

Most occult knowledge in its most purest form is hardly described in metaphores or mystic concepts. Its only the stupid people who will try and put it in a "catchy" uncomfortable jacket. Take a look at Jake here. As far as I know he never referred his acts and accomplishments as a result of "magic" despite some might be described to have been reached by the extensive use of it. I hold him in the highest regards for that attitude. I would even think the label of "Satanist" suits him more then anyone in the entire CoS from both past and present.

Your subtle claim here of "there are a few who are frightened when they encounter ideas that may not mirror their own " is wrong since I'm still standing and am actually stating and voicing my opinion while you prefer to cowardly pose from your cellar deep down the ground.

 Quote:
Dimriti and his tiny band of "usual suspects" who typically spew vitriol at those whose perspectives and interests do not mirror their own, should just be understood to not be responsible for their actions on this board; they should be treated as flakes upon your shoulder which are to be dusted off.

I've been here for quite some time, unlike you, in that time I have seen many come and go. The fact I'm still present, altough having had a few bumps in the road at the beginning, means I have proven myself worthy enough intelligent debate and contribution. You sir, still have a lot of time to proof yourself.

 Quote:
This insignificant handful of users do not represent the majority of Satanists.

And for who do you speak? It only confirms to me you are but a black sheep. Go and hug your fellow black sheeps in the flock you are trying to distanciate from.




Edited by Dimitri (08/24/10 01:51 PM)
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#42369 - 08/24/10 08:45 PM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: Duende]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"Dimriti and his tiny band of "usual suspects" who typically spew vitriol at those whose perspectives and interests do not mirror their own,.........."


Fuck you Newbie, you have no fucking clue about the people that you talk about, or the context for use of words. Now go pull your head out of your ass.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#42373 - 08/24/10 09:23 PM Re: How has Greater Magic changed you? [Re: Duende]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
ROFL

You are new here, and have contributed nothing aside from a few patently simplistic and undeveloped ideas about greater magic. GM is a drop in the bucket on the subject of Satanism. Do you have anything else?

Frankly, that you feel like you are in a position to be talking down to people that have been here for years and earned their stripes, given your pathetically poor contributions up till now, reeks of both utter stupidity and rampant pretentiousness.

You are NOT a bigshot. Now cut the crap and contribute something of worth, of get lost.
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