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#42096 - 08/20/10 01:07 AM Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs
creativevalue Offline
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Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 93
I just received word that another of my research papers is being published. It concerns "Isolation and Alternative Religious Beliefs". My research paper uses the Peoples Temple (Jonestown) as its foundation, and makes reference to Synanon (USA) and Compania Dignidad (Chile). The main topic is the effect of isolation on individuals and groups having alternative belief systems.

I would love to hear the experiences of members who may have experienced "isolation", either emotional or physical, because of their belief system, either individually or as a group? Your experience may be Satanic or as part of another alternative belief system.

Please feel free to relate your experiences of isolation, and please respect the privacy, the beliefs, and life experiences of others.

I look to an interesting discussion.

Morning Star

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#42105 - 08/20/10 10:50 AM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: creativevalue]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
My own path is one of embracing isolation.

In fact, I'd be tempted to say that anyone who follows the LHP for the right reasons does so specifically because such an action involves developing the individual in a solitary setting.

Satanism, in and of itself, is an anomaly (a third side) because its ranks include fierce individualists who sometimes choose to group together. Some do this because they aren't sure they actually are Satanists and so are seeking validation from those who they think fit the bill. Others do it to simply bat the ball around with a like minded few because actual Satanists are a rarity.

With regard to Satanism I believe the effects of isolation will be beneficial to those who are built for it, or for those with the fortitude and discipline to forge on into the darkness.

Long story short, isolation is something that is treasured and most welcomed by me.

Also, you spelled 'religious' wrong in your title. \:\)
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#42106 - 08/20/10 12:00 PM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: Fnord]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
It's a wise man (or woman) who early on learns the value of isolation. If you can count your friends on one hand, it's a crowd.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#42108 - 08/20/10 12:51 PM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: creativevalue]
Autodidact Offline
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Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: creativevalue
The main topic is the effect of isolation on individuals and groups having alternative belief systems.


It sounds interesting, I look forward to reading it.

Do you venture into purposeful or enforced isolation as part of plan for behavioral modification? How about pros and cons of individuals in total isolation? Does your research lead you to any conclusions (or speculations) that you'd care to share here in advance of publication?
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An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

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#42136 - 08/20/10 11:00 PM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: Fnord]
creativevalue Offline
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Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 93
Thank you for correcting my spelling of Religious in the title, I did not see that.

Interesting that you mentioned the formation of groups by those who are isolated from society. This is called "concentration" and it happens within groups of individuals who are socially or economically isolated. Concentration is the reason for the formation of urban ghettos which are usually formed by groups of people who have been socially and economically isolated. Recent studies have shown the cause of isolation to be social and economic, not race, although certain ethnic groups such as blacks (African-Americans) are more susceptible to this form of concentrated isolation.

As you state concentration also effects those who may be isolated because of their belief system. I agree with you and have seen this multiple times, I think we all have seen this, with various and diverse alternative religious movements. Isolated people form their own groups with their own value systems for support and survival.

Morning Star

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#42137 - 08/20/10 11:08 PM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: Jake999]
creativevalue Offline
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Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 93
Hi Jake, It is important to take time alone to know oneself, and to examine one's inner conscious. It is also important to know one's friends and be able to stand on one's own feet. However, being part of society helps with the transferance of ideas and values that prevent dangerous behavior. When a group or individual becomes "over-isolated" they lose focus and will develop new values that may be extreme or dangerous. Society plays an important role in preventing harmful behavior (such as suicide, drug-addiction, or sexual abuse).

Yes, it is wise to know one must make their own way in the world through their own actions and that good friends are hard to find.

Morning Star

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#42139 - 08/20/10 11:26 PM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: Autodidact]
creativevalue Offline
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Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 93
Studies have shown that "conversion" of beliefs through peer pressure and emotional persuasion is much more effective than forced conversion. The Chinese method of brainwashing was done through persuasion of ideas, "conversion", and peer pressure to voluntarily change the beliefs of the person through "evangelization". The Russian form of brainwashing was done through enforced isolation. Studies show the Chinese form of voluntary belief persuasion to be much more effective.

Total isolation can lead to emotional, physical, and psychosocial health mortality. (Remember we are speaking of unnatural isolation from society.)

More research needs to be done on the negative effects of social relationships, especially those that people can not avoid as by blood (family) or law (marriage). People tend to avoid negative relationships thus most research has been done on positive relationships.

The Three related hypothesis from Brummet's studies are as follows:
1. Isolation causes anxiety and stress leading to emotional and physiological morbidity.
2. Social relationships beneficially effect health as they are supportive and exert social control that promotes health such as sleep, diet, exercise, and discourage alcoholism, drug addiction, and other abusive behavior.
3. Social ties link people with diffuse social networks that facilitate access to a wide range of supportive networks.

When the editors are completed with the article I may be able to post some excerpts.

Morning Star

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#42140 - 08/20/10 11:33 PM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: creativevalue]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"However, being part of society helps with the transferance of ideas and values that prevent dangerous behavior"

Define dangerous behavior.

"When a group or individual becomes "over-isolated" they lose focus and will develop new values that may be extreme or dangerous"

Define your view on new values that may be developed and why you view them as extreme or dangerous

"Society plays an important role in preventing harmful behavior (such as suicide, drug-addiction, or sexual abuse)."

Who's society? Not the current one. Or are you fishing for some people to join your group so that they may become part of your perfect society?

You use the name MorningStar to sign your posts, so according to your site you view yourself as the new/next lord of all being both the jesus and satan contained within you?

Morgan
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Courage Conquering Fear
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#42144 - 08/21/10 12:23 AM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: Morgan]
creativevalue Offline
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Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 93
Hi Morgan,

Good to meet you.

If we consider societal norms as "neutral-whatever it is" a group that has become isolated will form its own values and norms that are different from societal "norms" whatever they may have been. The reason is that in isolation the isolated group loses its "focus" on the norms of society and forms its own values, whatever those values may be.

Next question, If we look at the term "dangerous" the behaviors described were all physiological or physical actions suicide, drug-addiction, and sexual abuse are basically physical effects. I thought a little about why? It is likely because researchers are looking for quantifiable data to develop answers and they are looking at physiological effects rather than emotional causes. I think it is good to look deeper. They are definitely basing it on the norms of mainline society.

Could there be a culture within society that accepts suicide as good? Heaven's Gate did, and it is the only known mass suicide in which every member voluntarily took their own life. This is a great example of a group that formed its own values outside of mainstream society.

As for me being the Lord or Satan! I hope it is just symbolic, I never thought about it, but what would I do if I really am??? That would be a really big change in lifestyle! Please do enjoy our website, we have built and pay for it ourselves, and are constantly working on it, for the benefit of all.

PS: My name is Edward.

Morning Star

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#42145 - 08/21/10 12:49 AM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: creativevalue]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Hi Edward,

"However, being part of society helps with the transferance of ideas and values that prevent dangerous behavior"

So what do you and your group view as dangerous behaviors?


"When a group or individual becomes "over-isolated" they lose focus and will develop new values that may be extreme or dangerous"

then

"The reason is that in isolation the isolated group loses its "focus" on the norms of society and forms its own values, whatever those values may be."

So you seem to be back tracking, from the values being dangerous to being whatever/non dangerous?

Your next writings don't really address my question in regards to your statement below.

"Society plays an important role in preventing harmful behavior (such as suicide, drug-addiction, or sexual abuse)."

Who's society? Not the current one, maybe part of your perfect society group?

"As for me being the Lord or Satan! I hope it is just symbolic, I never thought about it, but what would I do if I really am???"

How can you claim to choose a new name, not your birth name and state you never thought about what it meant? Especially since you use it on your website and in your writings. You are responsible for the choices you make, your own name that you use and are recognized by is not something to take lightly. Especially a name with such a history and connotations. Then hopefully in jest wonder if you are? You don't come across as sane or well thought out.

Well, enjoy your time here. I hope you find some new knowledge that helps you in your journey.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#42152 - 08/21/10 03:58 AM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: Morgan]
creativevalue Offline
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Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 93
Hi Morgan,

You have raised a lot of very good questions. Let's answer them one at a time to make it easier for me.

Remember you are an experienced writer on these messages, I am still learning.

The first question, was trying to write in a neutral manner to make it easier for everyone to understand.

By group I mean groups of individuals, not my group, or any group in particular, but rather any group of people who have been isolated by society.

I agree with your point about "what is normal". For example, talented people are often seen as not being normal despite their talent and are very often isolated. Yet, they are making a sacrifice by using their talents to help others to live.

I know what the name means. But another issue now becomes important, the name is a also a title, that will some day pass to another.

It is late and I am going to sleep, good night!

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#42156 - 08/21/10 04:39 AM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: creativevalue]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Let's get directly to the point where it becomes interesting.

After a quick check of your religion it is plain evident what we promote doesn't really jibe well with what you promote.

We aren't really into good deeds or kindness. Some of us promote culling or the removal of certain people out of the gene-pool. Idolatry isn't a strange concept to us, even if in most cases we are the idol. Neither is blasphemy. We don't care about the Sabbath, about family purity or restrictive sex. We don't mind having sex before, after and if it was possible, during childbirth. We might agree on incest however.

Still, considering we are opposites at so many levels, what actually leads you into the lair of your enemy?

D.

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#42166 - 08/21/10 12:51 PM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: Diavolo]
creativevalue Offline
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Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 93
Why are you talking of my group? That topic is unrelated to the subject at hand. You must read past the first two paragraphs of our website. You speak of "we", please speak only for yourself, you may be surprised who belongs to my group.

Very briefly not to go off topic. We do not believe in sexism. We are bringing the realization of Lucifera as Goddess and her rule in the age of Capricorn (the maiden goat) to the world. The restoration of the Dryad, the rule of the Goddess, and the Priestess over all things spiritual. In doing that we accommodate all cultures without sexism or discrimination. Read the beautiful stories of how Lucifer came to earth, and how Diana Lucifera gave birth to the stars. Read the Gnostic Witch Bible, and other sources. You will like the psalms of ONA on the music page. This accommodates the Mistress of the Earth in all ceremonies. I am eventually going to post the Medieval Satanic Bible as that will be an interesting read. I am also considering the Book of Wisdom. I must also add the story of Lillith. We must maintain balance.

You can eat all the unhealthy food and have all the unclean sex you want, if that is what "floats your boat", be my guest.

Oh, by the way, we are one of the few groups who still believes in Celestial Marriage (legal polygamy).

Now back to the main topic and enough of my group. That is an individual matter and we do not want to proseletize.

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#42167 - 08/21/10 12:58 PM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: creativevalue]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Considering the fact that you seem to be the head of the group, I was rather curious, about, for someone that represents such an opposite view, what attracted them to a place like this. You should not seek any hostility behind it, I welcome any civilized debate, no matter how conflicting my own views, as long as it is productive.

D.

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#42168 - 08/21/10 01:05 PM Re: Isolation and Alternative Religous Beliefs [Re: creativevalue]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3112
 Quote:
You speak of "we", please speak only for yourself, you may be surprised who belongs to my group.

First comment: instead of giving an educational tick on the fingers about the use of "we" for reference you'd better reread your own responses where youself use this plural quite too often.

 Quote:
We are bringing the realization of Lucifera as Goddess and her rule in the age of Capricorn (the maiden goat) to the world. The restoration of the Dryad, the rule of the Goddess, and the Priestess over all things spiritual. In doing that we accommodate all cultures without sexism or discrimination. Read the beautiful stories of how Lucifer came to earth, and how Diana Lucifera gave birth to the stars. Read the Gnostic Witch Bible, and other sources. You will like the psalms of ONA on the music page. This accommodates the Mistress of the Earth in all ceremonies. I am eventually going to post the Medieval Satanic Bible as that will be an interesting read. I am also considering the Book of Wisdom. I must also add the story of Lillith. We must maintain balance.

The story of Lilith is a quite well-known one and an easy search on google is sufficient to retrieve it. You may send the Medieval Satanic Bible this way, I'm quite a fan of fiction. Same counts for the book of wisdom altough my suspiscion lets me belief it will be more "the book of woo-ish beliefs".

To take a short-cut, you are a believer of metaphysics. Considering the fictive works you mentioned and the obvious reference to spiritual BS.

 Quote:
Oh, by the way, we are one of the few groups who still believes in Celestial Marriage (legal polygamy).

I am a believer of celestial organic sex (legal rapture).

I would also like to ask to answer on questions and not kicking around giving vague and non-related answers. It's annoying and only shows a level of ignorance. Now to get to your first questions.

 Quote:
Please feel free to relate your experiences of isolation, and please respect the privacy, the beliefs, and life experiences of others.

What is considered isolation? Unless a person is locked up in jail for his religious beliefs for his entire life, having no contact with any person by any means possible I don't see any isolation happening.
I even find it a quite retarded question to ask in a forum like this one. "What are your experiences of isolation" isn't that of an intelligent question to make in a place where like-minded people gather and share their knowledge and ideas. Perhaps asking that question or writing that down in a letter towards a prisoner in solitary confinement would have given better and more interesting results.

While I may walk alone with my beliefs outside virtual reality I am not the least isolated. My religious beliefs are of my own and are not a burden if the time and knowledge is being taken/used to explain the points of view. And I think that any remotly intelligent person living in a religious belt would prefer to lie about his/her contradictory beliefs to avoid social pressure then to cry his ideas into the open world. And if he or she does so, then the punishment is desereved.


Edited by Dimitri (08/21/10 01:15 PM)
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