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#42127 - 08/20/10 05:10 PM More Hypocrisy
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Abstract:
 Quote:
For the past several years, two U.S. Army posts in Virginia, Fort Eustis and Fort Lee, have been putting on a series of what are called Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concerts. As I've written in a number of other posts, "spiritual fitness" is just the military's new term for promoting religion, particularly evangelical Christianity. And this concert series is no different.

On May 13, 2010, about eighty soldiers, stationed at Fort Eustis while attending a training course, were punished for opting out of attending one of these Christian concerts. The headliner at this concert was a Christian rock band called BarlowGirl, a band that describes itself as taking "an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God."


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Talk about hypocritical. These people swore an oath to uphold the Constitution; which allows for the freedom of religion. Yet when they choose to exercise this freedom, they are punished for it. I would much rather clean than listen to Christian music but that wouldn't be my first choice for an alternative. Just one more way our troops are being screwed by the powers that be.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#42132 - 08/20/10 08:18 PM Re: More Hypocrisy [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
This reminds me of a 60 Minutes piece that I saw not too long ago, about Atheist soldiers stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan who were being subjected to harassment from other (Christian) soldiers and/or censure from their superiors.

Ideally, as an extension of the Federal government, charged with indeed upholding and defending the Constitution, the Armed Forces should be subject to the same Separation of Church and State. Neither the government, nor its military, should feature religion, except as a private matter at the discretion of the individual.
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#42150 - 08/21/10 02:55 AM Re: More Hypocrisy [Re: Draculesti]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Ideally, as an extension of the Federal government, charged with indeed upholding and defending the Constitution, the Armed Forces should be subject to the same Separation of Church and State. Neither the government, nor its military, should feature religion, except as a private matter at the discretion of the individual.


This is truly the crux of the issue and I find it appalling that it is even an issue at all. Aside from the fact that a person would not want to attend this concert due to ideological differences there is also the whole part about it being a Christian "rock concert". Fairy tales, zombie saviors and talking snakes aside; Christian "rock", with its complete lack of sex and/or drugs, can't rightly be called rock at all.

In away this incident reminds me of one I experienced in high school: Every so often my high school, like all others, would hold a "pep rally". These were meant to boost school spirit, of which I had none. As a result of these our classes were cut short for the day and the last hour and a half of the day was devoted to these displays of mindless pride.

Needless to say I had desire or reason to attend them so I would just go home after my last class. That worked well for me until I started my Sophomore year when the school Administration decided that these pep rallies were mandatory. Seeing these rallies as a waste of my time, as I wasn't actually learning anything (which school is supposed to be about, right?), I decided to skip.

I didn't realize how tenacious they were about making sure the students attended. As I was taking my usual route out the back of the commons into the parking lot I was stopped by the Vice Principal. He inquired as to what I was doing and I explained, my like I did above, how I was not going to attend the pep rally and why.

After much protesting I was eventually suspended for truancy. This was really funny (read: "stupid") for a few reasons: 1. I wasn't really truant as I was not skipping a class; classes were done for the day. 2. Punishing a student for skipping school by banning them from school is asinine. 3. It was a fucking pep rally there was literally nothing beneficial that I was missing out on by not attending.

I didn't fight the suspension because I wanted a week off from school anyway but I did write a letter to the school board explaining what I thought of their little rule. And from then on I simply did not attend school on the days that we were to have the pep rallies. And as far as I know, pep rallies are still mandatory for students attending the high school.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#42365 - 08/24/10 05:55 PM Re: More Hypocrisy [Re: Draculesti]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Draculesti
This reminds me of a 60 Minutes piece that I saw not too long ago, about Atheist soldiers stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan who were being subjected to harassment from other (Christian) soldiers and/or censure from their superiors.

Ideally, as an extension of the Federal government, charged with indeed upholding and defending the Constitution, the Armed Forces should be subject to the same Separation of Church and State. Neither the government, nor its military, should feature religion, except as a private matter at the discretion of the individual.


I absolutely agree. But when you sign up to serve in the military you literally sign away (almost) all of your rights that you normally have as a private citizen. You're there to be used as a tool for the military. That's all. Unfortunately, young men and women don't realize some of the liberties they've lost until they're "punished" for acting on their beliefs.
_________________________
"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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#42366 - 08/24/10 06:37 PM Re: More Hypocrisy [Re: Knievel74]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Quote:
But when you sign up to serve in the military you literally sign away (almost) all of your rights that you normally have as a private citizen. You're there to be used as a tool for the military. That's all.


Nevertheless, the Armed Forces is still a government/Federal entity, unless I'm mistaken in some way. The Separation of Church and State really has nothing to do with the private citizenry, but more to do with official government entities, with the exception that the SOCAS is in place to protect the private citizenry by holding that no government office or entity will favor one religion over another, indeed NO religion, so that those of differing religious beliefs (whether theistic or atheistic in nature) must not be bound to the principles of any religion. Furthermore, the SOCAS is in place to ensure that policy and legislation is not religiously biased.

Soldiers may not be private citizens anymore, but they are a part of a government body. Therefore, religion, in the large sense, has no place in the armed forces. In what should be an irreligious entity, to force soldiers to participate unwillingly in religious practices at the risk of censure and/or disciplinary action should they refuse, no matter what rights they have given up, negates the whole premise of the SOCAS.
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#42375 - 08/24/10 09:51 PM Re: More Hypocrisy [Re: Draculesti]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Draculesti
 Quote:
But when you sign up to serve in the military you literally sign away (almost) all of your rights that you normally have as a private citizen. You're there to be used as a tool for the military. That's all.


Nevertheless, the Armed Forces is still a government/Federal entity, unless I'm mistaken in some way. The Separation of Church and State really has nothing to do with the private citizenry, but more to do with official government entities, with the exception that the SOCAS is in place to protect the private citizenry by holding that no government office or entity will favor one religion over another, indeed NO religion, so that those of differing religious beliefs (whether theistic or atheistic in nature) must not be bound to the principles of any religion. Furthermore, the SOCAS is in place to ensure that policy and legislation is not religiously biased.

Soldiers may not be private citizens anymore, but they are a part of a government body. Therefore, religion, in the large sense, has no place in the armed forces. In what should be an irreligious entity, to force soldiers to participate unwillingly in religious practices at the risk of censure and/or disciplinary action should they refuse, no matter what rights they have given up, negates the whole premise of the SOCAS.


Again, I absolutely agree with you, 100%. But it'll never happen until a radical change occurs within the US Armed Forces. Which means a radical change needs to happen within the US itself.
_________________________
"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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