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#53396 - 04/24/11 04:14 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Harvey]
Zakary Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
...... there can be no doubt Myatt and Moult are fascinating individuals, Crowleys of our time dare I say?
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#53397 - 04/24/11 04:55 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Harvey]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Harvey


Our expectations may differ somewhat on this. As a species we are suicidal. Having peered long and hard into my quartz thingamabob I've 'received' a vision of our evolution - in vivid technicolor.

It all ends in tears. This revelation of our shared wyrd is one of terminal stupidity. I'm afraid that the degenerates inherit the earth.



Would that be your "position?" You stared into a crystal and saw an apocalyptic end of the world scene? And this would be the reasoning and science behind it? You base your position of humanity's future on a crystal? You really didn't clarify a position, other than humankind will be suicidally going extinct very soon.

CLICK THIS

How long did your special crystal tell you our species had before we end up in the swamps?

For me, if anything "apocalyptic" is going to happen it would be in context to cities, urban population, urban crisis, and the State; supplies and resources to maintain such urban and State population and System, etc. But the death of the State is what someone like Myatt wants anyways, so as to Build something else.

 Originally Posted By: Zakary

...... there can be no doubt Myatt and Moult are fascinating individuals, Crowleys of our time dare I say?


I would agree. I am personally drawn to their insights and creativity, as well as their ability to inspire in me my own thinking and thoughts \:\) They're cool people.




Edited by Caladrius (04/24/11 05:10 AM)
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#53400 - 04/24/11 07:08 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Harvey]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Harvey
If you can present evidence of our "potential" as per ONA, The Numinous Way, Nietzche etc. that might contradict our current trajectory - I'm all ears [eyes].


OK - here's an obvious one. Just one, mind.

That there are people here, on a forum such as this devoted to the Occult and Satanism, discussing a topic such as our potential and exchanging ways and means.

Go back a hundred years; then a thousand; then five thousand. Comparison?

OK - it's not that many people, but it's a *creative minority* who produce particular types of change, of movement upward.

Also, while no doubt most here will disagree about the ways, we're likely to agree on one thing - that what we call Satanism is, or could be, an effective means of not only change for those people of our type, but also a step toward understanding how a minority or even a few gifted individuals can change more people in the future.

In this, think a thousand years then five thousand. Short of some cataclysmic event - which seems unlikely - our species isn't going to become extinct in that time scale. True, there's going to great problems and events ahead which may result in the deaths of maybe a billion people, but like someone else said, some humans will survive.

So there's reason for great optimism - for our type of people, in the long term. Weeding out the dross, overcoming challenges, and having fun with mundanes.

There's also reason for optimism now - for we can just be Satanic, live Satanically, and choose whatever flavor of Satanism we like. Joy!

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#53401 - 04/24/11 07:33 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Zakary]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Zakary
...... there can be no doubt Myatt and Moult are fascinating individuals,


Myatt - yes. But let's get Moult aka Beesty Boy into perspective vis a vis the ONA. His contributions so far have been minimal - an account of his internal adept rite; his sinister Tarot; a few works such as very poor self-immolation rite which IMO isn't Satanic or sinister at all. Also, he produced a few articles which say nothing new - just rehash what Anton Long said in a better way.

That's about it. Fact is, he's yet to produce what he's got the potential and talent to do, which is a sinister mysterium (think - beyond Scriabin) of music and images which replaces the traditional rituals/ceremonies involving words and actions, and which in ONA speak *presences the dark* and so can inspire or provoke people to action, to deeds.

Until he does this - using his talents to aid the ONA and the sinister - IMO his sinister destiny remains unfulfilled.

Moult/Beesty has potential, but as they say in England, he's gotta pull his finger out!

As for Myatt/Long - the ONA is his unique creation, his *magickal Word* if you like.

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#53402 - 04/24/11 08:46 AM Re: ONA and Culling / Anti-future Plan [Re: Caladrius]
Clarence Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 61
Apologies Harv,

If I may intercede:

 Quote:
Would that be your "position?" You stared into a crystal and saw an apocalyptic end of the world scene? And this would be the reasoning and science behind it? You base your position of humanity's future on a crystal? You really didn't clarify a position, other than humankind will be suicidally going extinct very soon.


Okay, it's probably safe to assume the crystal gazing was something of a facetious backhander. Don't you think? Right... as for the rest, his position seems clear enough:

 Quote:
It all ends in tears. This revelation of our shared wyrd is one of terminal stupidity. I'm afraid that the degenerates inherit the earth.

No Overman.

No Buzz Lightyear.


 Quote:
Now I'm not suggesting that some cataclysm will engulf billions of unique and precious cosmic darlings, but rather that short sightedness, greed and stupidity will reach a zenith in short order, and collectively we shall retreat to our murky origins.


Unless I've just had a bout of ADD I believe Harvey called into question the notion of willed evolution, and of this "potential" that we are continually minded of. His position, in sum, is that we are much more likely to head in the other direction. That stupidity/degeneration/superstition/chaos is in harmony with the natural flow of things, not evolution. Try to keep up now.

In passing between the two of us it became obvious that we share a love of Douglas Adams. I would not mention it, but it seemed comically relevant here: The ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything is (according to Mr. Adams - RIP) best represented thus:

db

You'll just have to use your imagination.

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#53403 - 04/24/11 08:57 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Caladrius]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
There is Nothing confusing or mysterous about what Myatt has been and is doing, if you genuinely Understand what the ONA is.


Spot on! Even some of Myatt detractors have understood this. For example there's an interesting essay about *Myatt as Mage*, written a couple of years ago now and which quotes some old WSA 352 stuff, which claims -

 Quote:
Myatt's mythos of Vindex - which he has expounded in his book The Mythos of Vindex - is fundamentally not some mere millennial vision or even some academic theory, but rather a carefully crafted and sinister methodology whose aims are the creation of both a new type of human being and a new type of society. These aims are grounded in the person Myatt calls Vindex, the revolutionary warrior leader who challenges the Old Order by force of arms and who, with his (or her) clans and allies, establishes new communities based on clan and tribal lines."


Source of quote - http://www.davidmyatt.ws/mad-mage-myatt.html

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#53405 - 04/24/11 11:02 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: SinisterMoon]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: SinisterMoon
OK - it's not that many people, but it's a *creative minority* who produce particular types of change, of movement upward.


It is indeed the creative minority that creates a ripple which, in time, can lead to great changes. Look at the "Age of Enlightenment". The West didn't shift into this new paradigm by accident or drastically, it were individuals of previous ages creating and spreading a new world-view, affecting people in and beyond their time, building up towards this drastic intellectual and cultural paradigm shift.

The building blocks of this change weren't even uniform, many ideas conflicted, but the similarity was in the underlying values of them all.

People expect change to be sudden. They prefer an outcome and if it can't be realized within a short amount of time, they lose heart and give up. Change often requires many generations, slowly and subtly doing their part until it manifests.

It is like a rock, carefully manipulated by generations of sculptors, each chipping their part, until at one point, a work of art arises.

D.

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#53408 - 04/24/11 12:54 PM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Diavolo]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Clarence


That stupidity/degeneration/superstition/chaos is in harmony with the natural flow of things, not evolution.



Harvey & Clarence have the position that stupidity and degeneracy is in harmony with Nature and that therefore Nature is perhaps inherently "anti-evolutionary," or at least regarding humanity's future. Suggesting that somehow stupid people will devolve humanity into a chaotic swamp dwelling creature. They use Douglas Adams to support their position.

Sinister Moon & Diavolo have brought up examples of how it only takes One Mind and One Person to inspire a mass of people into a direction/flow. This idea or notion they bring up has also been spoken about elsewhere in the 5000 something pages of ONA MSS.

 Originally Posted By: SinisterMoon


OK - here's an obvious one. Just one, mind.

That there are people here, on a forum such as this devoted to the Occult and Satanism, discussing a topic such as our potential and exchanging ways and means.

Go back a hundred years; then a thousand; then five thousand. Comparison?

OK - it's not that many people, but it's a *creative minority* who produce particular types of change, of movement upward.

Also, while no doubt most here will disagree about the ways, we're likely to agree on one thing - that what we call Satanism is, or could be, an effective means of not only change for those people of our type, but also a step toward understanding how a minority or even a few gifted individuals can change more people in the future.

In this, think a thousand years then five thousand. Short of some cataclysmic event - which seems unlikely - our species isn't going to become extinct in that time scale. True, there's going to great problems and events ahead which may result in the deaths of maybe a billion people, but like someone else said, some humans will survive.

So there's reason for great optimism - for our type of people, in the long term. Weeding out the dross, overcoming challenges, and having fun with mundanes.

There's also reason for optimism now - for we can just be Satanic, live Satanically, and choose whatever flavor of Satanism we like. Joy!



 Originally Posted By: Diavolo


It is indeed the creative minority that creates a ripple which, in time, can lead to great changes. Look at the "Age of Enlightenment". The West didn't shift into this new paradigm by accident or drastically, it were individuals of previous ages creating and spreading a new world-view, affecting people in and beyond their time, building up towards this drastic intellectual and cultural paradigm shift.

The building blocks of this change weren't even uniform, many ideas conflicted, but the similarity was in the underlying values of them all.

People expect change to be sudden. They prefer an outcome and if it can't be realized within a short amount of time, they lose heart and give up. Change often requires many generations, slowly and subtly doing their part until it manifests.

It is like a rock, carefully manipulated by generations of sculptors, each chipping their part, until at one point, a work of art arises.




Edited by Caladrius (04/24/11 12:55 PM)
_________________________
Chloe 352

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#53423 - 04/24/11 09:23 PM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Caladrius]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
The more I read the MSS's of the ONA, the more I see your point. He is living his work. It seems he is also making himself the poster boy for the ONA. But as I read sometimes you must be in the limelight to reach your goals. The extreme right wing ones described in the Seven Fold way. My education in ONA continues, I dont profess to know everything about them. But by discussing it I try and see new perspectives into his writing, and methods.

I simply wish I was 18 again, and knew what ONA was sooner. Or Satanism in general. Ive been decieved for too long.
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#53429 - 04/25/11 12:06 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: SinisterMoon]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
I personally think Beest has been the second-most inspirational figure (generally speaking) in the ONA after Long, for two reasons-- the first one being his art, which gave flesh to Long's ideas in a way nobody else had before. I would also imagine his internal adept diary inspired many to take the leap and undertake the rite, it being rather moving to read intimating evidence of its completion, rather than being unsure of whether or not the whole thing was genuinely a modern tribal ordeal refined by trial and experience, or just a macho survivalist fantasy that never manifested outside of NAOS's typewritten pages.

He is, however, greatly overrated, and nobody seems to have the chutzpah to dethrone him as the ONA's resident DaVinci, instead choosing to repost and fetishize his work across the internet and beyond, even though it is quite outdated and not that technically amazing.

 Quote:
Fact is, he's yet to produce what he's got the potential and talent to do, which is a sinister mysterium (think - beyond Scriabin) of music and images which replaces the traditional rituals/ceremonies involving words and actions, and which in ONA speak *presences the dark* and so can inspire or provoke people to action, to deeds.


Indeed. There is a difference between reiterating and embellishing the ONA's already-existing arcana, and actually taking it beyond its limits to a higher level of ideal.

This is only my perspective as an "outsider", as I am not that intimately involved with the opus of the ONA.
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#53431 - 04/25/11 01:18 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: The Zebu]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
He is, however, greatly overrated, and nobody seems to have the chutzpah to dethrone him as the ONA's resident DaVinci, instead choosing to repost and fetishize his work across the internet and beyond, even though it is quite outdated and not that technically amazing.


Agreed. His ONA art stuff is all years old now and IMO one reason it stands out is that 'the competition' is just so artistically bad.

Thing is though he's improved a lot technically as an artist since those Tarot card days but hasn't done any new stuff related to the ONA or its mythos. BTW I'm not counting that portrait of some woman holding a skull which isn't Satanic/sinister at all and doesn't add anything new or even is inspiring.


 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
There is a difference between reiterating and embellishing the ONA's already-existing arcana, and actually taking it beyond its limits to a higher level of ideal.


Totally agree with you here. But I guess the reason he hasn't done so lack of interest now in the ONA - or so it appears.

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#53432 - 04/25/11 01:21 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: The Zebu]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
At some point in time individuals ought to drop the term Satanism as it does them no service at all. Thinking that it must be about being ’dangerous’ or ’controversial’ or ’offensive to religions’ is part of the problem that keeps it locked into reactionary and more extreme irrational thinking that negates the whole purpose toward freedom to be oneself. Extreme militancy as observed in those around Satanism can be a symptom of a shadow projection of the subconscious. If Satanists got over the need to offend religions thinking they are being bad ass and were just themselves learning to respect others privacy, much of the bullshit of Satanism would vanish, this is not the 60's and Satan is a more severe concept in religious peoples lives, it may be just a word for rebelling against whatever to "Satanist" but in using this word to describe yourself you are marking yourself as a terrible person in the eyes of indoctrinated people who believe in things like Satan. Instead of being against something or someone maybe "Satanist" ought to look at themselves and improve their own lives. If "Satanists" can't respect others privacy they are only making negative impact on themselves. When Nietzsche said "Live dangerously" he was living in a society far different to modern times and when Christianity was something repressive to people who would want to take risks with relationships and work and other things related to self improvement. Satanism revels in feeling pleased with itself by blaming society and religions for being a burden when many Satanist don't know any impoverished struggle of their own.

The problem we have is nothing to do with "Satanism" or "religion" it's the situation in Palestine where the racial supremacy Zionists are invading the privacy of Arab homes and killing people. They regard eachother as Satanist and Satanist regard themselves as Satanist? Satanist is a ridiculous tag to put on yourself, individualism isn’t anything new. Self improvement, self overcoming, enlightenment, freedom, etc... these are established and very old philosophies. I may be anti-authoritarianism and misanthropic and nihilistic, this has nothing to do with disrespecting others, it's is a simple necessity to be left alone, my whole life people don't learn and do unstable shit and I retaliate, in my family homes there was always some cunt thinking he was a "bad man" who could hurt my family, so I am still violent dispassionately out of necessity to any aggressiveness that comes my way, I leave people alone, I respect others privacy because I'd rather stay out of jail, my experience of "people" is that they don't respect anything, and if I do meet people I'm very well mannered and dismissal at the same time, I always want to be left alone, I ask nothing of anyone, this does not mean I go around breaking rules it means I don't listen to the orders or suggestions of others because I don't trust anyone and do everything myself, I don't ask for nor want anything but privacy because I've never had it, only since last year have I got away from violent surroundings and since then I have had no run ins with the law, this is because I've never start trouble, only reacted to stressful situations.

Culling is completely alien to my thinking and at best just conjures images of the holocaust and then the controversy and then conspiracy and then boredom and more disgust with mankind, if somebody causes shit you know that jail is a very real threat as if you are anything like me you are not a bystander, you react in full swing, personally I don't risk anything anymore, I even told the judge I'd do the same again if I met the same threat. I got self defence not guilty because it was self defence, if you go round justifying culling to strangers then you'll end up in jail or on the receiving end of somebody who's not the mundane you think they are.

So who is the problem? drunks and druggies, it's no big feat to knock them the fuck out if you get any problems. If you're a smart person you'll have learned to box and you'll be exercising daily, who are the "mundanes" ? Wasters. They are wasters, usually people you know, and everyone has to deal with these, they are protected by the law and can get away with their petty crimes that make them feel great. I just stay away because they're like lemmings, they sacrifice their own safety to send you to jail, they don't contrive this but they are incommunicable and really think they can behave unstable around anyone they like. This gets them hurt and I'm sick of being in court because of people like this.

If Satanist lived in Palestine they'd not be entertaining ideas about human sacrifice, they'd be too busy trying to protect their own families in real life. Planet ZOG is not a good place to live.

I ironically found ONA after being homeless for a long time, years, and the required ordeal of sleeping rough was enough to put me off because I was not very interested in doing that again. The unbalanced fitness requirements, if you meet those requirements you're bound to look like a stick insect marathon runner once you've worked up to them cardio goals. Boxing and weight training for me thanks.

ONA just speaks to me as being just like everything else, unnecessary meaningless drama, more nihilism after being into it for a while ONA has devalued itself like everything always does, everything comes back to nihilism for me so it's just my opinion. I thought I'd found a authentic resurfacing of manuscripts from medieval times and was looking for the originals on the ONA sites but since I could only find rather impressive modern intellectualism, I was disappointed to the core, funny huh, I still like the art though.

Is knocking somebody out not enough these days? No need to go too far.
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#53434 - 04/25/11 03:02 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Hegesias]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Hegesias
I ironically found ONA after being homeless for a long time, years, and the required ordeal of sleeping rough was enough to put me off because I was not very interested in doing that again.


I think you miss the point about the ONA grade ritual of internal adept - it's about being alone, isolated, for three months in the wilderness or the desert and having no contact with other people and no means of communication with them.

Just sleeping rough it ain't.

Why those conditions? To help you develop particular Occult skills and learn to be honest about yourself. To see if you can stick it out.

If someone isn't interested in doing this grade ritual, that's their choice. It's only an opportunity, a challenge, for those who're interested. Which is very few people - like 3 people a decade \:\)

 Originally Posted By: Hegesias
The unbalanced fitness requirements, if you meet those requirements you're bound to look like a stick insect marathon runner once you've worked up to them cardio goals. Boxing and weight training for me thanks.


I think you miss the point of the ONA physical tasks - they're part of the selection process for ONA candidates aspiring to follow the ONA seven fold sinister way, like similar tests for candidates wanting to join Special Forces. If you do the tests in the times given, you pass. If you do them and fail, you failed, and you can try again - or not.

But if you don't want to attempt them because you're not interested in doing them, that's your choice.

These physical challenges and the grade ritual of internal adept are two of the practical things that distinguish the ONA way from the ways of other Satanic/sinister groups. There are plenty of other groups and ways - *out there* in the real world, and *in here*, in cyberspace.

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#53436 - 04/25/11 05:26 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Hegesias]
Moravagine Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 16
Having done some research, it would appear that these 'tests' are not so much rules as guidelines. Perhaps a method of weeding out the guillible? At any rate, if you were to look into the Rounwytha and Baeldraca it might alter your perspective.

If I were leading a bunch of impressionable youths in search of a surrogate daddy, I'd probably direct them all to obtain One Million Dollars by any means necessary, and to drop said funds at a secret location (next door is fine, thanks ) by end of business, friday. They would then remove themselves to a remote location for an indefinite period of time, whereupon they should deafen themselves with uninterrupted, loud chant, tear out their eyes and excise their tongue as votive to Our Lady. If such an offer is pleasing, those faculties will be miraculously restored. Voila! End of first odeal.

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#53438 - 04/25/11 07:30 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Moravagine]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
it would appear that these 'tests' are not so much rules as guidelines


They're not quite rules, as there is really no benefit outside of ones' own self to completing the physical grade rituals, nor is there any "mandate" to advance. One of the refreshing things about ONA initiates is that they tend to keep their 'stage' silent, and do not brag about being an "Nth Degree Internal Adept", "Grand Magus", or other such titles. Too often, grade rituals are merely ceremonial drawls one endures simply to earn the approval of their magical peers. In the ONA, however, they are of their own benefit to the practitioner.

 Quote:
Perhaps a method of weeding out the gullible?


I am still testing and expanding the limits of my own body, so whether or not the tasks are "realistic" isn't within my knowledge. But given the extreme nature of some ONA participants (chiefly Long) there is no doubt in my mind that they are intended to be carried out quite literally, albeit not without some necessary localized adaption.

The wonderful thing is that you do not need any "cult", "order" or "group" to set yourself hard goals and accomplish them. If you choose to push yourself to such extremes, simply do it for yourself. If you're only doing to prove your worth to some organization, then you will end up as a mere tool.
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