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#53616 - 04/28/11 06:13 PM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: MindFux]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Empathy is principally though of as a feminine trait because people morally associate compassion with Empathy, Sinister Empathy would be indicative of psychopathic traits, for instance, Sadism is empathy. Also, esoteric recognition of other beings intent, observing their gait and spotting weakness, is also indicative of psychopathy. There are more male psychopaths than females, or the females simply never get found out. A Sinister intelligentsia is not likely to show itself in female form because of the lesser testosterone, meaning less reliance on dominating, and hence more deadly covert sinisterness would be natural, I would think?

Goes back to my "apparently" romanticised outlook on the way women get revenge as compared to men, with poison or other clandestine malevolence rather than direct physical violence, the female may also be able to arouse violent response in surrounding males and use them to carry out her intentions on enemies.

We all know women make the best assassins.
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#53623 - 04/28/11 09:02 PM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: MindFux]
Caladrius Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 318
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: MindFux
I wouldn't say women outnumber men of the ONA. I'd just say that the prevalence of the WSA352 and it's choice of heresies lends itself more naturally to a female mindset. That and the commonality of experience in some of the founding texts of what is probably the largest Nexion of the current rolling around these days on-line isn't really geared to a male psyche. That's not to say the essence is any different from any other Nexion, but as a form, it is what it is.

That said I have noticed a higher proportion of fractured, or outright shattered psyches bounce off the ONA (I can't say come from it, because they were never of the ONA in the first place) and a shocking majority of them are men. Mayhaps some credence should be put to the fact that the Sinister Empathy is principally a feminine trait, or the ladies just handle it better. ;\)




You're right actually. There are actually much more male ONA initiates out there then females. It's just that for some reason most of the ones that participated in Mr. Lewis's latest survey were female associates; represent!

There must be a “balance” or supplementation of the “Sinister Animus” and the “Sinister Anima” because the two phenomenal Essences expressed themselves in very different ways. Each causal expression is needed in their own way to make things happen.

For instance boys; being that they run on testosterone or because of their zoological makeup; are Territorially oriented. And this also deals with Psychological Territory such as memeplexes with defined landmarks and boundaries. They naturally express themselves ((generally)) in an apish manner. They'll pick fight, start jihads, argue, tribal warfare, things of that sort. Which is perfectly fine and natural. In the older phases of Fayen back then manifested itself eventually thru certain “nexions” into things like C18, C88, NSM, and in the random nazi-skinhead gangs running around England. Every body under the influence of testosterone trying to start Helter Skelter ((Rohowa)) to disrupt the State. Many went to jail, and other went rolling into the BNP.

Sometimes just using violence in an apish manner may not always work and get the job done. Especially when your perceived enemy is actually a reification. The “State” doesn't actually exist “out there” in a concrete sense where you can just walk up to it and poke it. Doesn't matter how many bombs we use or officials you opfer. The State is an idea/ideal/idealism that we each Believe into “existence.” It's like a gang. There is no concrete thing that is the Gang which you can point at. The people that are members of a “gang” are not members of anything. They share a common group identity and/or common psychosis. And so within those defined psychological boundaries they act according.

But the girl initiates came along and brought a certain kind of balance to the Methodology. In a more Domestic sense. Domestic meaning that the focus isn't exclusively on brutish violence, but on family, clan, tribe, culture, bonding, cooperation, progeny, future welfare/wellbeing, etc. It's a different Anima approach to the same end goal, because perhaps in time, when more people are into living together for one another in large family-comrade structures, they won't be so dependent on the State Machine, and so that Power Monopoly – or monopoly of dependency – gradually fractures... in theory \:\)

I have also noticed many people brains get fried – as you put it elsewhere \:\) And most of them are guys? I don't know why that is. Or, it could be that competitive impulse guys naturally have? It's that territorial thing again? Most of the victims of ONA brainfuck start off fine. Then they start to read and study more ((all the while never putting the stuff into practice)). Then then they get lost in the words and outer meanings which challenges their preconceived beliefsets. I've noticed in some cases that this is the point where the brain melts and the insanity sets in. Because they'll look for somebody/anybody in the ONA as some sort of “authority” figure to beat their chest at and argue with because their worldviews and belief has been compromised. But there is no person to beat your chest at in the ONA. Being disgruntles in the ONA doesn't change anything. And so I think it's the futility, the frustration, and them being unable to simply see past the superficial stuff for the Essence that build up into their mental disturbance?

I would agree with you when you say that girls are better at empathy. But I think this thing we try to point at with the word/notion “empathy” is naturally in both males and females. It's just that even it ((empathy) as a Potential is Expressed causally differently via the “nexion” or person.

To draw out the point: this thing we try to point at when we say “empathy” or “sympathy” is a natural phenomenon we can observe in many animals indirectly. Have you ever seen a mob of little birds in the sky fly around in a tight ball? If you watch you'll see that that tight ball of birds move together amazingly in unison as if controlled by a single mind? Or we can see this same thing in a school of fish where they school dances around in the sea, and everyone is in perfect sync with everyone else? That is the Essence of “Empathy/Sympathy.” To be in fluid sync with another or other; or in harmony with the "Flow," "Dharma," "Tao."

So, we see this same “sympathy/sync” expressed thru males. In war on the battlefield, every soldier must be in sync or in empathic connexion with their fellows. Everyone is on the “same page” and sharply coordinated. We'll see this same phenomenon working in gangs or in the work place. And if we ever place ourselves in such situations and pay attention, we'll notice that initially we consciously put in the effort of doing what ever it is we do in such cooperative group setting. But then like riding a bike, the unconscious mind takes over, and its at that point – when the conscious mind is releaved of its duty – that the weird syncing of action and motion sets in. At least that's how I have seen it expressed thru men. Empathy for girls flow thru whatever it is we are naturally mindfully doing or oriented at doing. Bonding and talking, and things of the domestic sphere. So that empathic phenomenon end up being expressed in a very different outward way. Which is the way most often associated with the words/idea “emapthy” or “sympathy.”

Either avenue of expression – via males or females – the End Symptomatic Result of that phenomenal essence is the same: synergy. Or as it is called in Theravada lingo: Samadhi – the Concentration, Focus, of Mind, Emotion and Action of one or more individuals at “something” to be Realized/Actualized. Mind must be able to "empathically" sync with Emotion and Action. Emotion mus be able to "empathically" sync with Mind and Action. Action must be able to "empathically" sync with Mind and Emotion.

Without the “empathy” there is no connexion, and without connexion there is no synergy. In the same way that without photons being in focused, concentrated sync with each others, there is no laser beam. If we were to shrink ourselves down to the size of a photon and watch a laser beam go by in slow motion, we'd see that each photon particle flies with every other in the same way the birds and fish fly with each other. If that sync is broken, the particles fly every way, and we end up with a common flashlight. Which may be the difference between a “herd” and a “hive” if we think about it. One is made of particles ((livestock)) which exists in a state of willinilliness with others. The other is highly coordinated and in sync. One has absolutely no power or force to manifest their Will on the Causal. The other masterfully Manifests their Will. As an army with their sync and synergy is able to manifest their collective/concentrated/focused Will to literally change the world, destroy whole empires, and create whole civilizations. I could be way off and wrong though about all this.


Edited by Caladrius (04/28/11 09:12 PM)
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#53632 - 04/29/11 02:17 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Caladrius]
Ghostly1 Offline
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Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
There is nothing quite like the focused energy of a woman at a shoe sale, and someone else sees the same pair she is looking at.

Empathy goes out the window, rage takes over and for a change, women embellish upon the apish behavior the rest of the male knuckle draggers (like myself) seem to have a monopoly on.

Its almost magical when human beings move in synchrony like that. And when we do its only by diligence and lots of practice, but when its natural. Its magical. Usually it manifests itself at sporting events, concerts, and social gatherings.

As for the girls representing...... it has been said that behind every good man, is a great woman kicking him in the ass. Figuratively speaking of course. Anton LaVey said it well, when he chooses to consort with women more then men, as men tend to be more competitive with other men, and when faced with a woman it is more relaxed. I agree with him.

The ONA also clarify that higher magic, and advancement through the grades cannot be accomplished alone. You must find a partner. An equal. It is this balance nature devised perfectly which allows both men and women to be as synchronous as the birds and fish. One complementing the others attributes and intellect. Men are merely more muscular, and aggressive to make up for the majority of them being less intelligent, and thoughtful before acting or speaking.

You got us on Breasts though, those things are phenomenal.

;\)
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#53634 - 04/29/11 02:48 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: MindFux]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: MindFux
I wouldn't say women outnumber men of the ONA


IME, there are more nexions - aka groups, Temples, cells - run by women in the ONA than in most other (? all) other Satanist and LHP groups. This, especially in the *old world* of England.

There are also quite a few Sapphic ONA groups going right back to the 70's, one of which - the dark daughters of Chaos - used to have their own zine. There's also the ONA Rounwytha tradition.

Overall, also, the ONA seems more balanced, has more women, than most other Satanist groups which tend to be - still - male dominated and which seem to pander to the more *in your face* and *wannabe badass* male types.

Why is this? Again. IME because the ONA understands *the dark goddess as archetype* and what it calls sinister-empathy, with the cultivation of the latter - hitherto a mostly unconscious female trait - being part of the training of both male and female ONA initiates, as in the internal adept rite for instance.

So, there seems to be in the ONA an emphasis on psychic balance - on the male, for instance, moving away from the swaggering macho * I deify myself* stereotype to a more rounded (dare I say cultured) personae by means such as developing empathy with people and Nature.

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#53635 - 04/29/11 02:58 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Zakary]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Zakary
I would say trying to get in contact with the ONA is like trying to contact a jihadist group like Alqaeda.


Very true \:\)

 Originally Posted By: Zakary
In light of these factors if they do contact you they will most likely not be who they say they are......?


Or they will use expendable cut-outs, and anyway a person needs to have gotten to the stage of *internal adept* before they'll meet with anyone from the ONA OG or an existing established ONA nexion face to face. That'll take some years and weed out the undesirables and the undercover cops/agents.

Oh yeah - and you can't just fake being internet adept. From what I've been told, you've got to submit your internal adept diary and other proofs. Even then, there are other tests - that would make a good short story or two.

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#53636 - 04/29/11 04:48 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: SinisterMoon]
Zakary Offline
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
You never weed out intelligence organisations..... there are no weeds....... only eyes........ and their eyes are many.
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#53637 - 04/29/11 06:51 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Zakary]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Zakary
You never weed out intelligence organisations


Depends on what you mean by *weed out* \:\)

I meant - infiltrate/entrapment, not *spy on* from a distance by monitoring comms etc. Perhaps I should have explained myself better.

Using your analogy - not even the CIA, despite their vast resources and experience, has been able AFAIK to infiltrate al-Qaeda at the top level and so gain access to OBL and his *inner circle*.

So it is possible to outfox *them* in certain things if you're good enough - to believe you can't IMO goes against our satanic philosophy.

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#53638 - 04/29/11 07:42 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: SinisterMoon]
Zakary Offline
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
One must remember AlQaeda is a post Taliban CIA invention. It's name acts like a flame to attract Jihadist moths, which can then be manipulated to any political ends. So AlQaeda doesn't need infiltrating at all. As for ONA Satanic beliefs about being able to work unobserved by intel, this is magical thinking...... it is not possible....... just ask any jihadist that thought Allah would make them invisible from authorities.... it didn't work.
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#53640 - 04/29/11 09:08 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Zakary]
Autodidact Offline
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Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Zakary
this is magical thinking...... it is not possible.......


You're supposed to auto-deify, not deify others. Intel agencies are organizations just like any other, made of people, who are still just people. They are not omniscient and omnipotent.

They even told you they cannot infiltrate because they're short in their human intel capabilities. IIRC, this had to do with a policy change during the Clinton(?) administration.

Comparing this to magic invisible jihadists is stupid. Use your brain.
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#53643 - 04/29/11 09:34 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Autodidact]
Diavolo Offline
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No to mention that the idea "al-Qaeda" is a CIA invention is giving the guys too much credit. It is a bad idea gone wild.

When the USSR occupied Afghanistan, the USA did find it a good idea to train and arm the “rebels” and it probably looked quite worth the money when Russia retreated but what it developed into, sure did bite them (and us) in the butt didn't it?

I keep being amazed by the denial of human potential. As if one, or a couple, of humans aren't capable making a mark on history. It surely couldn't have been some Arabs starting our Age of Terror, it must have been bigger, more organized, necessarily government related. Often governments are less capable than individuals.

We Euros were quite familiar with terrorism and have learned that a couple of guys and gals are quite capable even without governmental backing.

D.

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#53648 - 04/29/11 11:21 AM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Zakary]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Zakary
One must remember AlQaeda is a post Taliban CIA invention.


Personally, I don't share that theory - and it is just a theory IMNSHO.

While the CIA certainly did arm some Muslim insurgents to fight the Soviets during their occupation of Afghanistan, neither OBL nor Mullah Omar had anything to do with the CIA or with *Amrika*.

 Originally Posted By: Zakary
As for ONA Satanic beliefs about being able to work unobserved by intel, this is magical thinking...... it is not possible


Disagree here. It's a question of ethos, pride, and reality. They're not invincible, all knowing, no one is. To believe otherwise is to elevate them to some kind of status akin to the nazarene god (puke).

To believe you can outwit them and their type - if you're good enough - is IMO part of *our* satanic ethos, or should be. It's certainly part of the ONA ethos. If you don't share or agree with this, fine.

Here's one practical example of their fallibility - if you communicate using gnupg, they can't crack your messages. Nor can the NSA. Yet. Not even given all their vast resources and their *experts*.

There is no *back door* in gnupg - it's open source - and no cluster of computers nor any supercomputer nor any experimental quantum computer can crack it yet if you use a key of 2048 bits and above.

It's like a sinister dialectic - you try and stay one step ahead of them \:\)

If you fail - you failed. Others will and should try. Isn't that after all our defiant Satanic ethos?

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#53650 - 04/29/11 01:10 PM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: SinisterMoon]
Zakary Offline
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
If you to believe you can be invisible to the CIA, FBI and even contracted IT agencies that do a lot of work for such intel agencies then it is up to you. In my personal experience I would not entertain such an idea for a second.
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#53652 - 04/29/11 01:53 PM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Zakary]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The art of being invisible is not "not being seen" as much as "not being interesting".

In this age, one can hardly stay of the radar, and practically anyone, to a degree, is visible but while this is considered a disadvantage, it really is just another mass to disappear into.

All it requires is being smart enough and not look worth the resources to invest.

Look at criminals and you'll notice that those taking care of their appearance to the outside world are more successful than those directly exchanging their "shadow" income into too visible bling. Look at most successful psychopaths and you'll see that them being one of "us" was almost identical to them being invisible.

D.

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#53653 - 04/29/11 02:31 PM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Diavolo]
Autodidact Offline
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Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
All it requires is being smart enough and not look worth the resources to invest.


Very true ... assuming, of course, you actually are worthy of government attention.

As I said earlier, most of you are just not that interesting.
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#53658 - 04/29/11 03:10 PM Re: ONA and Culling - Anti-future Plan [Re: Zakary]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Zakary
If you to believe you can be invisible to the CIA, FBI and even contracted IT agencies that do a lot of work for such intel agencies then it is up to you. In my personal experience I would not entertain such an idea for a second.


It's not so much a question of *being invisible* as being more clever than they are.

If you're already on their radar - for whatever reason - then outfoxing them (aka being clever and sinister) is the answer.

Example - Anton Long, and both we and *they* know who is meant. Little seems to stick to him - despite attempts by *them* to get him arrested blah blah blah.

But, if you're not on their radar, and you want to be invisible then like someone said in reply here, just merge into the mass and appear to be just one more more mundane. It works.

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