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#40946 - 07/28/10 05:07 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: XiaoGui17]
Raffy Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Chicago
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
The idea of who is "mundane" and who is "elite" is so subjective

Subjective/objective are just constructs, like "morality".

Life is; exultation is. Being individual just is. Experience and life are - experience and life.

 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
Besides, if you're really "elite" you shouldn't need to get your own hands dirty.

Exactly - you manipulate someone to do particular deeds. That's one way in which some mundanes may be useful.
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#40947 - 07/28/10 05:13 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Goal oriented collaboration is fantastic, just as long as it is my goals that are being collaborated upon. Otherwise, what is the point?

I have yet to encounter the organization devoted to bringing my personal goals to fruition, so until then I will handle them solo.
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#40948 - 07/28/10 05:17 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: The Zebu]
Raffy Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Chicago
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
I have no problem with the idea of ending the life of an individual for the right reasons, but more often then not, it seems as if most of the people advocating "culling" come off as unholier-than-thou armchair extremists. We aren't some shadowy, secret cult with arms reaching into every limb of society,

Good points, well made.

We're just individuals who can and who should decide for ourselves.

We should decide, for ourselves, what is "right" - we should not like sheeple just abide by what some government or someone else says is "right".

We take responsibility for ourselves - we make our own judgements, and if we act on our judgement we assume total responsibility for what we do.

The points here are - act and our own judgement.

That said, culling on a large scale can sometimes, but not always, be a means of change. Some wars are just cullings.

 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Furthermore, the word "mundane" makes my skin

It's just a word; an outer form; something signifying something else. If you've got a better suggestion, please share.
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#40949 - 07/28/10 05:38 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Raffy]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Furthermore, the word "mundane" makes my skin


This "us versus Them" worldview seems alien to a Westerner who has been living a very segregated life as separated units. I can understand in this case how such use of words like "mundane" makes certain Occidental skin crawl. I can also understand in this very psychologically segregated Western society when every one is conditioned to be an independent self-reliant unit, how it's all "about me."

In my own culture things are not like this. Clans and "tribes" still exist - although in modernized social format - and so there is, or was never any state of mind where its "all about me." Things in my own culture - as many others - the world is emotionally still divided into two groups: (a) Khnea-Yeung and (b) Pug-ghe. Khnea-yeung [Our Folk(s)] meaning anybody related to "us" or is an intimate associate of our clan. Pug-ghe [Other People] is every body else. If you are pug-ghe, you are open game.

Of the 7 billion Humans alive today, many do not exist mentally or psychologically within the Western Matrix/Paradigm of "me," "myself," and "I."

Call it what you want, "mundane," "pagans," "kuffar," "pug-ghe," or whatever. These are just words which are feebly used to explain or describe a facet of Human Nature. The Nature of identifying with kinfolk and those close to us whom we depend and rely on for survival, and those not "of us."

"Us versus Them" doesn't need to be worded and expressed. When out in the Real World, any army out on the battle field will instinctively know and understand who is "us" and who is everybody else. Same with street gangs, sports teams, and corporations. Each group knows how to tell its own from Others.


Edited by Caladrius (07/28/10 05:42 PM)
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#40950 - 07/28/10 05:47 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
Raffy Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Chicago
 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
Each group knows how to tell its own from Others.

That's right - in the real world, it's "us and them".

It's up to us to choose. We can stand alone. We can be "mundane" and be sheeple. Or - we can form our own "us".

Some of us have chosen a new type of "us", because we recognize our own kind, and because "we" - our kind - can live better, we can do more stuff, when we have brothers and sisters around us.

Your choice. It's an individual decision. A practical choice, in the real world. In the end - there's no ideology to justify this decision; no amount of words which can prove it's "right".
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#40951 - 07/28/10 06:10 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Raffy]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1737
Loc: New York
To no one in particular.

Often times when I see someone writing about themselves as being “elite,” and putting themselves in the elite “we” category and then talking about “culling,” those that are not apart of that “we” just puts a bad taste in my mouth.

As many have pointed out, just about any idiot can think of themselves as elite. Actually, my experience has shown that most of the ones who proclaim themselves as “elite” are idiots and losers in the real world.
Many members of racist groups are a good example. They are a bunch of illiterate red necks walking around with sheets on their heads screaming “White Power,” yet I would be willing to bet few actually have a college education, or anything to show for. Listening to them talk, I doubt if a large percentage of them actually finished High School.

I don’t have a problem with someone being “elite,” goat knows that there are many out there who are in different ways much more elite then I am. I know this because I have met them in real life, and can easily admit if I am outclassed. The ones online, whom I consider to be elite, have offered enough evidence by the way that they present themselves and their past experiences that I can make an educated decision as to their standing.

From what I have seen though, most online Satanists are co-dependent, wanna be’s. Either they don’t have a pot to piss in, and depend on someone or some institution for their keep, or they have sold their soul for the piss pot that they do have, and banks and creditors are their masters.

As for “culling,” who are these “elite,” talking about?
Knocking off a couple of street bums sleeping on a bench? Hell, I’ve known some war heroes who ended up in that predicament. Besides, many of them have more money stashed away then some of us combined, AND they are living the life that they want.

What about those that are on Welfare for generations after generations. Good luck with that, because they are indeed breeding like rats and sucking up much of the resources. So in order to do your culling you better have vast amount of properties to build concentration camps on. Get rid of a thousand of them, and you wouldn’t have even scratched the surface of that endeavor.

I’m not talking about financial status alone. There are those people who I would consider “elite,” who live on only a couple of hundred dollars a month. Many live in shacks, cars, trucks or vans, yet they are free to come and go as they please, and they are the masters of their own, albeit limited domain. But at least they are masters of themselves.

Using the kind of scale that many Satanists who are in favor of culling might use, my grand mother (father’s mother) might be an easy mark for the list.
In all appearances she was a peasant woman. Lived in a village in the old country, in an average house, which didn’t even have plumbing. We had to go and shit in an outhouse. (I like them by the way, they never get clogged up).
Since she was my grandmother I loved her dearly of course, but having lived in the states for a few years, and having had an education of sorts, on some level I felt that I was “elite” to her.
Sure she made some extra money selling some wreaths that she made to people in her community so she was never in need of anything.
It was only after she died and I was an adult that I started asking my parents some questions about things that were a bit beyond my understanding, such as how did this peasant woman manage to buy both of her kids houses for cash and always had money to give to relatives in need, and then leave an estate that was worth millions by the old Eastern European standards, when back in those times even doctors and lawyers weren’t able to achieve that kind of financial status.

I assumed that those wreaths brought in a decent amount of money....and over the years they did. But imagine my surprise when I learned that “grandma,” was a big time loan shark. She took the money from her little business (so small that the communists didn’t even pay her any attention for running her own business), and then lent the profits to people who were short on cash and made a crap load of interest on those loans. Over many years she amassed a small fortune even by today’s standards (for that area). How many elite Satansits can make claim to that kind of ability AND be off the grid like that?
On a side note, she might have been a Satanist as far as I know, because while just about everyone in the area went to church regularly, she never did, nor did she ever talk about any kind of religion. Although she never claimed to be special or elite, just was....quietly and unassumingly.

My whole point being is that people who claim to be elite, better put up or shut up if they want to be taken seriously.
I realize that online anyone can make a statement about their personal standing, and as far as I am concerned in many a case that is good enough, as long as they are willing to make specific statements as their personal achievements in regards to how they are “elite.” Then anyone reading their claims can make up their own minds if there is something to what they are claiming, or are simply full of shit.

Reading and understanding books, having a certain point of view, and making statements as to how they believe the world “should” be, doesn’t cut it without the ability to provide at least some specific claims as to real life personal success.

Since I don’t claim to be one of the “elite,” ones, and feel that all elite organizations and their members can eat my shit, I don’t have to provide such proof.
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#40952 - 07/28/10 06:28 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Raffy]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Raffy

It's up to us to choose. We can stand alone. We can be "mundane" and be sheeple. Or - we can form our own "us".

So anyone that chooses to be their own master rather than go with what is written in ONA mss is automatically mundane or sheeple? There are certainly more ways than one to cut your own path out of step with the herd. In fact, the whole concept of having only one way to be an individual is an oxymoron.

Or did you mean something else?

What exactly is your criteria for defining 'us'?
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#40953 - 07/28/10 06:30 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Asmedious]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
Oh, since we're on the topic of Culling and "Us versus Them."

I keep my eyes on this one global index on the "Most Happiest Nation" \:\)

Denmark and Costa Rica have been on the top of the top ten list for a long time and America is so low on the list it doesn't even make it in the top 20 at times!

I've always wondered Why are Danes and Costa Ricans so happy as a country and why America is such a miserable place? Thankfully, a little study was done by an independent team to answer this question recently.

The team's research learned that Denmark and Sweden were at the top of the Happy Index because of financial reasons, people there get paid a little more Per/Capita and have less financial stress burdening them.

The team's research learned that although Costa Ricans do not get paid as much Per/Capita, they are the Happiest Country in the Americas because of strong social bonds and strong family ties!

Both of those things are lacking in America. People in America are not only under paid and burdened with financial worries, but they are so "me-centered" with very little strong social/family bonds that Americans suffer from high levels of stress.

The good thing about Americans suffering from high levels of stress is that: Stress Kills.

In this context, it can be seen and said that ignorant people do kill/cull themselves \:\) Saves others the trouble... Good work America!

[Ignorant meaning: Unaware, or refusing to become aware to do anything about it.]


Edited by Caladrius (07/28/10 06:35 PM)
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#40954 - 07/28/10 06:33 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Asmedious]
Raffy Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Chicago
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
just about any idiot can think of themselves as elite.

Deeds - not claims or words.

Personal character, revealed by practical deeds, and known to those one chooses to associate with.

 Originally Posted By: Asmedious

As for “culling,” who are these “elite,” talking about?
Knocking off a couple of street bums sleeping on a bench?


If we're talking ONA, then they have practical guidelines as to how to choose those suitable - practical tests to reveal the mundane of the mundane; those of worthless character.

Texts such as Guidelines for the testing of opfers come to mind.

But like I said, in the end, it's a personal thing. A Satanic decision made by a Satanic - that is, an amoral - individual, based on their experience, their judgement.
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#40956 - 07/28/10 06:39 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Dan_Dread]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread


What exactly is your criteria for defining 'us'?


If we each all had the liberty to define our own lives and how to life it, and who "us" and "them" is/are. Don't you think each person or group will have very different definitions and criteria? It's all fair in the end actually. I am not included in your "me" you are not included in my "we." Something like that.
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#40957 - 07/28/10 07:00 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Raffy]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1737
Loc: New York
 Quote:
If we're talking ONA, then they have practical guidelines as to how to choose those suitable - practical tests to reveal the mundane of the mundane; those of worthless character.



Ok, that’s all fine. But what makes them so “elite,” that they think they are better then let’s say for arguments sake a single mother busting her ass working to support her kids, or a news paper vendor on the street, or even an illiterate illegal alien who can support himself and lives (in his world view) a happy and successful life?

Are most of the members of ONA actually LIVING the kind of life that they preach? My point is that it’s one thing to come up with an Elitist ideal and philosophy, but a whole different thing to actually live those ideals AND be happy and “Self Actualized,” doing it.
If you say yes they are, can you give some specific examples as to how some of the individuals in ONA are doing it. Certainly no need to give names and details to any “questionable” activities, but at least some specifics as to how someone who is walking the talk is doing it for REAL.
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#40958 - 07/28/10 07:01 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Dan_Dread]
Raffy Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Chicago
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
So anyone that chooses to be their own master rather than go with what is written in ONA mss is automatically mundane or sheeple?

Nope, that's an incorrect assumption.

The ONA is just one way, among many. Just one sinister - or satanic - way.

Also, there is no "overall ONA", no old style organization - only individuals or groups who may choose to cooperate together if it's to their advantage, and who share similar goals, aims; a similar character.

But out there in the real world, such cooperation has its advantages - and this involves making some distinction between "them and us" - between our satanic kind and the others.

These "others" are those who are not like us; who do not have our satanic character - which character is not defined by whether or not someone calls themselves ONA or belongs to some ONA group.

But character which is manifest in their own nature, their personality, latent or maybe developed already in some manner.

We have or we can develop a sense, an instinct, for sniffing out our own satanic kind - however they may describe themselves, or whatever group, or none, they may belong to.

Anyone who has been in jail - or been a member of a gang - knows this type of instinct.

Some people have this instinct by nature; some others can acquire it, the hard way, by practical experience.

Whatever, it's always personal. Direct.

So, the distinction is between our kind and the others. No labels; no "membership"; no badges; no ideology. No one, no group, telling us who is or who isn't.

Nothing - except our own personal judgement. Our personal, direct, assessment of others. It's our call.

All a group such as the ONA can do is maybe - sometimes - point some people in the right direction; bring out the inner Satanist within some of them.
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Those who are not our sinister brothers or sisters are mundanes

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#40959 - 07/28/10 07:12 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Asmedious]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious


My point is that it’s one thing to come up with an Elitist ideal and philosophy, but a whole different thing to actually live those ideals AND be happy and “Self Actualized,” doing it.


Where did this "point" of yours come from? From an apriori opinion you agree with or from an a posteriori personal experience you had?

 Quote:
If you say yes they are, can you give some specific examples as to how some of the individuals in ONA are doing it.


You are essentially begging somebody in the ONA to show and prove, or Convince you to agree? Whatever happened to proving it to oneself if such concepts work or not? ONA stuff is out there. Is it too hard for you to experiment with it yourself? To determine for yourself if such ONA concepts is worthy of your agreement or not? Why beg other's for answers?
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#40960 - 07/28/10 07:38 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread


What exactly is your criteria for defining 'us'?


If we each all had the liberty to define our own lives and how to life it, and who "us" and "them" is/are. Don't you think each person or group will have very different definitions and criteria? It's all fair in the end actually. I am not included in your "me" you are not included in my "we." Something like that.


Yes...exactly. We all define who is 'us' and who is 'them'. That's just human nature. Some let others tell them what the distinction is, others decide for themselves. I define we as MY people, people I personally know or care about, or people that have personally impressed me. If you think I am arguing against 'us and them' you are quite mistaken.

I just think 'us' is mostly meaningless if you are talking about individualists and autotheists.
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#40961 - 07/28/10 07:52 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1737
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Where did this "point" of yours come from? From an apriori opinion you agree with or from an a posteriori personal experience you had?


Both. I have personally experienced talking out of my ass on some occasions, believing certain points of view but not doing anything to live up to those beliefs. But mainly from observing people from all walks of life talking about how others are not living life to their full potential while they were just living like the ones that they were putting down and spewing shit from their mouths. Kind of like the fat, unmotivated Satanist living in his moms basement, eating sacks of potato chips and telling the world online how elite he/she is because they have such a great understanding of Satanism and all that it encompass, while their only social group in the real world is made up of videos and their girlfriend is their right hand.

 Quote:
You are essentially begging somebody in the ONA to show and prove, or Convince you to agree? Whatever happened to proving it to oneself if such concepts work or not? ONA stuff is out there. Is it too hard for you to experiment with it yourself? To determine for yourself if such ONA concepts is worthy of your agreement or not? Why beg other's for answers?


Begging hardly. Calling out yes.
I don’t think that I would ever beg anyone for advice or to teach me anything, but if I was going to ASK anyone, it would be someone who has actually achieved something worthy and tangible instead of just blowing hot air.

For instance I would be eager and appreciative to receive advice from people who have successfully built a business out of nothing, a published author on writing, a professional contractor on how to build a house, Xear on building a website, Igor from Voyeur web on building a successful online porn business, Larry Flint on personal freedom, Joe the Pizza guy on how to make a great pizza, and anyone else who has achieved tangible success of any kind using whatever method that they used.

However, people claiming that some “ideas,” are superior to any others, while unable or unwilling to give specific details as to how those ideas have helped them obtain specific and tangible results are just full of shit in my humble opinion.
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