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#40962 - 07/28/10 07:59 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Raffy

We have or we can develop a sense, an instinct, for sniffing out our own satanic kind - however they may describe themselves, or whatever group, or none, they may belong to.

Anyone who has been in jail - or been a member of a gang - knows this type of instinct.

Some people have this instinct by nature; some others can acquire it, the hard way, by practical experience.

Whatever, it's always personal. Direct.

So, the distinction is between our kind and the others. No labels; no "membership"; no badges; no ideology. No one, no group, telling us who is or who isn't.

Nothing - except our own personal judgement. Our personal, direct, assessment of others. It's our call.



Well here we go, it seems we aren't so different after all. I have been saying these same things for years. It isn't difficult, even in an impersonal medium such as this, to tell those that 'get it' from those that don't and never will.

 Quote:

All a group such as the ONA can do is maybe - sometimes - point some people in the right direction; bring out the inner Satanist within some of them.


I am a bit curious why you would want the 'inner Satanist' brought out of others. I just don't get why it would be a benefit to have more people aggressively pursuing their own interests about, or why these people would collaborate, or on what.

It has been my experience that the only time people have the same goal-sets are if they are told what they are rather than decide them for themselves. Goals are personal, after all.
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ideological vandal

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#40963 - 07/28/10 08:06 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Asmedious]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious


Kind of like the fat, unmotivated Satanist living in his moms basement, eating sacks of potato chips and telling the world online how elite he/she is because they have such a great understanding of Satanism and all that it encompass, while their only social group in the real world is made up of videos and their girlfriend is their right hand.


Oh, Grand Magister Blackwood. I Cee he is infamous. I don't believe he has any videos.





 Quote:
However, people claiming that some “ideas,” are superior to any others, while unable or unwilling to give specific details as to how those ideas have helped them obtain specific and tangible results are just full of shit in my humble opinion.



Let me ask you a few questions As. In regards to the Opening Post of this thread.

1) Show me where Raffy or the post says that "ONA 'ideas' are 'superior' to others.

2) Also go back an re-read the OP, then tell me what the intended objective of the OP was... or what the hidden motive was, and if YOU are the intended audience.

3) Also what makes you believe that the ONA came here to ask for your gracious validation and approval, that ONA should offer up 'evidence?' What other great things are you Self-Entitled to because you are a member of the 600 club?

4) When after somebody in the ONA offers your highness evidence, what will happen? Will the world change and become peaceful? Will world hunger end? Will you just love the ONA forever?

5) Why are you incapable of conducting your own experiments, testing out questionable concepts? And why do you assume that Others in life are incapable like you?
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Chloe 352

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#40964 - 07/28/10 08:35 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Dan_Dread]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

If you are not of my own, you are one of three things: irrelevant, a resource, or an obstacle. I can think of no good reason to devote my precious time or energy to the first group, which is the vast majority, and I deal with the last two in a context specific way that serves my own ends. The idea of devoting my time and energy to either serve or hinder those that do not matter to me in ways that do not benefit me is a completely alien concept to my line of thinking.


My thoughts exactly. Ultimately, taking the matter of eugenics into one's own hands, while a "sinister" method, is still a utopia-building endeavor. Why would I bother trying to build a utopia? For whom, exactly, am I building it? It seems awfully altruistic to take it upon oneself to off someone he wouldn't have dealt with in the first place. If it doesn't immediately serve my interests to go around whacking people.

If I'm looking out for myself, avoiding those I dislike or dealing with them if and when they bother me is as good as having them dead, anyway. And less of a hassle for me.
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#40965 - 07/28/10 08:40 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
Asmedious Moderator Online
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
 Quote:
1) Show me where Raffy or the post says that "ONA 'ideas' are 'superior' to others.


“The Order of Nine Angles has always advocated culling, maintaining it is a Satanic practice; the ONA will always advocate culling. Why? Because there are mundanes, and us. A basic principle of 1. Satanism is that mundanes are not only a resource, for us, but also expendable. This, in essence, arises from our Satanic morality – that we are better, more valuable, than mundanes.”

“They do not have our élan, our style, our satanic ethos, our elitist morality – our defiance of mundanes and everything mundane.”

“The worthless are worthless; expendable. Therefore, why should we not put them to good use?”


Seems to me that ONA believes that their ideas are superior to that of the “mundanes.” Mundanes are the “others.”

 Quote:
2) Also go back an re-read the OP, then tell me what the intended objective of the OP was... or what the hidden motive was, and if YOU are the intended audience.


The objective intent of the OP was (I believe) to see if Satanists in this forum generally believe in “Culling,” those they consider inferior.

However, through all this the OP failed to state why she felt that she is superior to the “mundanes” whom she keeps referring to.

 Quote:
3) Also what makes you believe that the ONA came here to ask for your gracious validation and approval, that ONA should offer up 'evidence?' What other great things are you Self-Entitled to because you are a member of the 600 club?


Her first sentence makes me believe that she (not ONA) came her to ask for my as well as the gracious opinions of others who are on this forum.

She wrote:
 Quote:
I post - for comments - part of a controversial, and recent, article from the Order of Nine Angles about culling.

See the part about posting for COMMENTS?


As for what other great things I am self entitled to because I’m a member here....
My privilege to respond to empty claims and grand standing without any substance to back up claims of “elite-ness,” and to question those making such claims.
Also I make claim to members only cookies, and a cup of goats milk.

 Quote:
4) When after somebody in the ONA offers your highness evidence, what will happen? Will the world change and become peaceful? Will world hunger end? Will you just love the ONA forever?

At the very least we will be able to determine if the ONA is truly made up of “elite” individuals who actually made something of their lives in the real world while adopting the ONA philosophy, or are just a bunch of posturing people with grandiose delusions like Blackwood himself.

 Quote:
5) Why are you incapable of conducting your own experiments, testing out questionable concepts.


I have conducted experiments and have tested questionable concepts. I’m doing that now as a matter of fact. Questioning without anyone willing to give any answers aside from making some general claims.

 Quote:
And why do you assume that Others in life are incapable like you?


In what specific way have I failed in my life. What have I failed to achieve exactly? Better yet, what have YOU achieved in your life, that would make you believe that I have failed in mine?

For the record, I do know what my failures are as well as my succesess, and have enough self confidence that I have in the past shared them in detail here in this community. I don't have to come here and pretend to be some great mystic with "occult" knowledge blowing hot air about being elite without backing it up if I was ever to make that claim.
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#40966 - 07/28/10 08:47 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: XiaoGui17]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17


Why would I bother trying to build a utopia? For whom, exactly, am I building it? It seems awfully altruistic to take it upon oneself to off someone he wouldn't have dealt with in the first place. If it doesn't immediately serve my interests to go around whacking people.


Yes indeed. You are entitled to your opinions Xiao. This statement is a nice example of plebeian mentality and short-sightedness.

Remind me of the allegory of the grasshopper and ants. Like the grasshopper asking itself why even bother working like ants, if it is going to die soon. When winter comes you see. Both the ants and grasshopper die.

But in the spring, the grubs of the ants prospers because of the work their colony put in. The offspring of the grasshopper has nothing.

Do you ever realize that its this same way of thinking - "all about me-ism - of grand mothers and parents who thing this way, that causes or contributes to poverty?

Do you think rich people think like this too? Why should I work to make some grand children rich so they can exploit the poor if it I'm gunna die.

How many powerless plebeians would agree with this statement of yours, and if asked, how many of the powerful and political elite families would agree with this statement?
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Chloe 352

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#40967 - 07/28/10 08:57 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Asmedious]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious




I have conducted experiments and have tested questionable concepts. I’m doing that now as a matter of fact. Questioning without anyone willing to give any answers aside from making some general claims.



Yes, I figured you 'were experimenting.' This medium you are conducting your experiment with is called the INTERNET. What you are using to conduct your experiment with are called IDEAS. What you here consider "experiments" others in the Real World would cosider mental juggling or intellectualizing opinions and ideas.

Let me know when you are big boy enough to conduct experiments in the Real World off line.

I also wonder how many Non Sequiturs you habour in your mind.

You suggest to me that because Subject X is "Unable" or "Unwilling" to prove that THEREFORE it is Not True.

For example, If a person was Unable or Unwilling to provide evidence of a God, that there for God most definitely is not real.

If a person is unable or unwilling to provide missinglinks that therefore evolution is not real.

That if I am not willing to prove to you that I took a shower yesterday that therefore I did not.

That if nobody is willing to give you proof and evidence to satisfy you that therefore ONA is full of BS.

And in your mind all of those statements makes sence to you? This is how your brain works? That is a smart as you can get?


Edited by Caladrius (07/28/10 08:58 PM)
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Chloe 352

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#40970 - 07/28/10 10:34 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
Remind me of the allegory of the grasshopper and ants. Like the grasshopper asking itself why even bother working like ants, if it is going to die soon. When winter comes you see. Both the ants and grasshopper die.

But in the spring, the grubs of the ants prospers because of the work their colony put in. The offspring of the grasshopper has nothing.

Do you ever realize that its this same way of thinking - "all about me-ism - of grand mothers and parents who thing this way, that causes or contributes to poverty?


You completely missed my point and attacked a strawman. The fact that I was responding to Dan Dread, who specifically mentioned "of my own," should have indicated to you that "my" interests doesn't necessarily mean "me alone and never anybody else." I think you chose to interpret my statement in that way (thus taking it out of context) in order to have something easy to attack, when I think it's damn obvious that wasn't what I meant. When I talk about serving my interest, I'm talking about me and mine. I see the interest of those I associate with as being an extension of my own interest, and this is definitely applicable to my offspring.

My point is that I don't see how "culling" the unworthy would in any way benefit my future offspring or anyone else I care about, either. The well-being of society as a whole (which I consider imaginary) and the well-being of my people specifically are two entirely different things. Systematic extermination of individuals for allegedly inferior traits is something one does to "improve society as a whole." The mentality is that getting rid of the lowest end of the bell curve somehow "makes the world a better place." It does not serve the interests of me or anyone I care about. What purpose would "culling" serve to benefit my people? Until you can answer that, your little tangent about guanxi/blat/wasata is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
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#40975 - 07/28/10 11:18 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Raffy]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Wow four pages of replies... Did the 352/WSA board finally go down. What was your name there again Jade was it?

It's been a longtime.

Have fun and never forget there is always a bigger dog.

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#40976 - 07/28/10 11:25 PM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Caladrius]
Asmedious Moderator Online
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Yes, I figured you 'were experimenting.' This medium you are conducting your experiment with is called the INTERNET. What you are using to conduct your experiment with are called IDEAS. What you here consider "experiments" others in the Real World would cosider mental juggling or intellectualizing opinions and ideas.


Yes, I am using the internet at this time to discuss ideas. However, I also can give specific examples of how I might consider myself “elite,” over some people, and not up to par with others, in certain real life situations. For example: (Some are due to the application of Satanic philosophy and some are from life experience)


Pros.
(These are not meant as boasting since in my view not all of these are that meaningful, it’s just an example of specific things that some may consider to be “elite.” in certain situations, while others would think otherwise. )


I can speak and write fluently in two languages.

I hold three professional licenses. Nursing, Emergency Medical care (and I have been credited for directly saving at least three lives using my skills, and others indirectly), and transportation (I can pretty much legally drive anything on wheels). Any of these are likely to provide me with employment just about anywhere. (I’ve also successfully completed a real-estate sales course but didn’t bother getting a job in it, therefore I couldn’t get licensed since working for a broker was part of the licensing requirements at that time).

I have zero debt.

I have minimal bills for luxuries, and can pay them as soon as they come in.

I’ve had sex with over 60 women. Some of these ladies were down right gorgeous, and some...go in the “Not so proud of that time,” category.

I have enough Martial Arts experience to be able to POSSIBLY fend off one or two attackers in SOME situations, and if I can’t fend them off I can get my ass kicked in style.

I have enough self confidence to feel comfortable among any number of people, and I can speak up in front of a large group of individuals. Albeit, not always eloquently, but I can express my views clearly.

I can roll a joint even though I don’t smoke pot.

I’ve successfully held over 30 different jobs in the past 28years. (Some were part time).

I can survey property, read and make maps.

I make awesome coffee!

I have successfully defended myself in traffic court against an asshole District Attorney. (One time, and I rather not have to do that again), point being, is that I wasn’t afraid to at least give it a shot. Credit Satanism for that).

I can do my own laundry without ending up with pink underwear.

I’ve traveled internationally on my own since the age of 8.

I’ve had myself psychologically analyzed and was found to be in perfect mental health.

After learning about professional pick up artists, and just for shits and giggles I’ve learned enough of their methods to make a complete fool of my self, yet still had a moderate amount of success. Point being I went out and “experimented in the REAL world.” with their methods.

I developed a weight loss system for myself that works 100 percent of the time and can lose 40-50 pounds in three months and go down to a size 28 waist. (Still working on keeping the weight off for more then a year at a time but can maintain a size 32 waist at the age of 45).

I have studied and used Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy IN THE REAL WORLD, to the point where I NEVER lose my temper, and can keep a calm demeanor in any situation. (As far as situations that have so far come up in the past ten years.)

Can’t think of more stuff at the moment.

The negative:

I still have to work for a living, which I don’t like at all, but have not found a way to be financially independent. (Which makes me have a great amount of respect for those “elite,” individuals who are their own boss).

I live in what I call a shitty apartment. ( However, that’s mainly due to the fact that I prefer to pay about ten percent of my income for housing, rather then 50 percent like many other people).

Although my car is in decent shape and looks sort of nice, it is ten years old and many people that I know have much newer ones. (Again, I don’t want debt, so if I can’t buy it outright for cash, I don’t buy it).

I smoke (cigarettes), and I’m not sure that if I wanted to, I could quit as easily as I would like to believe.


I can’t seem to be able to cook anywhere as well as the average person.

Although as stated earlier, I can speak two languages fluently, I have a slight accent in both. (Some can pick it up, some can’t. Usually, they think it’s a different dialect of sorts). This may not be a negative, but I love to listen to people talk who speak the “Queens English”, and would like to achieve that kind of proficiency myself...but can’t.

I have a bitch of a time mastering proper grammar, and no matter how many books that I read on the subject, I get lost half way through them. (Some even claim that I use way too many commas \:\) )

Although I like a clean, minimalist and uncluttered environment, I’m a fucking slob and hate cleaning.
(At least I’m not a hoarder)

These are some examples of what I mean about giving specifics in regards to real life experience, and I have no qualms about sharing mine openly. Although I have nothing to prove to anyone, if I am going to make certain claims then I’m also willing to give details about myself for better or for worse. No smoke and mirrors, or internet mysticism bullshit.
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#40978 - 07/29/10 01:27 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: ta2zz]
Raffy Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Chicago
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
never forget there is always a bigger dog.

And remember that a pack of wolves can take down much bigger prey \:\)
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Those who are not our sinister brothers or sisters are mundanes

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#40979 - 07/29/10 01:33 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Asmedious]
Raffy Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Chicago
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
I have enough Martial Arts experience to be able to POSSIBLY fend off one or two attackers in SOME situations, and if I can’t fend them off I can get my ass kicked in style.

And if you had someone - or many - to cover your back you wouldn't get your ass kicked at all.

That's one reason why cooperation between those of a similar kind often works, in real life. That's why "our kind" tend to form and belong to gangs. It works; it's a natural thing, having an extended family like that \:\)
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Those who are not our sinister brothers or sisters are mundanes

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#40980 - 07/29/10 01:42 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: XiaoGui17]
Raffy Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Chicago
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
My point is that I don't see how "culling" the unworthy would in any way benefit my future offspring [i]or anyone else I care about

The point is that you make your own point. That's the deal.

It can be fun. It can let you exult in life. It bonds people together. It's a challenge. Whatever.

It may even have or serve some Aeonic purpose - think assassination. Or it may not serve such a purpose.

It's a personal choice. If you don't see a point, you don't. Then you don't bother doing such stuff. It's your choice at the end of the day.

If you want to life in a satanic way, it's just an option that can let you live in that way.

Live, exult - not just sit around thinking about it or debating it.
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Those who are not our sinister brothers or sisters are mundanes

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#40981 - 07/29/10 01:45 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Raffy]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



To Caladrius: there is no such thing as an a priori opinion. This evident lack of quality on your part suggests that you are not elite.

To Raffy or Daffy or whoever: the premise of real Satanism is an appreciation and acceptance of the real material world and the pragmatic consequences of ones actions in that world. (I am into law and order, not murder.) Please engage in all the culling you want and when you end up in prison you can learn to suck cock or lick pussy under the instruction of a hard task master. If you are just a talker and a braggart, trying to impress members here, then you are not elite; if you do it and get caught you are not elite. Grow up.

All of you advocates of human culling are not Satanists in my opinion.

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#40982 - 07/29/10 02:01 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Raffy]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Raffy

And if you had someone - or many - to cover your back you wouldn't get your ass kicked at all.


Unless, of course, you got attacked by a bigger pack. Or the group decided that sacrificing you as a pawn was in the group's best interest. Or you got attacked by a member of another group for being a member of the group in the first place... one that wouldn't have bothered you otherwise.

 Originally Posted By: Raffy

That's one reason why cooperation between those of a similar kind often works, in real life. That's why "our kind" tend to form and belong to gangs. It works; it's a natural thing, having an extended family like that \:\)


Members of gangs also tend to get attacked more frequently than the general population. Any advantage gained from having fighting buddies is going to be outweighed by gaining more enemies and being attacked more frequently. I'll take avoiding unnecessary and useless conflict altogether over having an advantage once conflict emerges. Keep your gangs, you guys can "cull" each other all you like.

 Originally Posted By: Raffy
Live, exult - not just sit around thinking about it or debating it.


;\) Interesting statement from someone who just made three posts in a row, and then came back for another one.


Edited by XiaoGui17 (07/29/10 02:05 AM)
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#40983 - 07/29/10 02:02 AM Re: ONA and Culling [Re: Asmedious]
Raffy Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Chicago
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
Seems to me that ONA believes that their ideas are superior to that of the “mundanes.”

Nope - it's not about ideas. It's about people. Types of people. Their character; the way they use and live their lives.

One type has a mundane character - and mostly waste their lives. The other type does not - or at least has the demonic desire not to be mundane and the nerve to test themselves in the real world and so aspires to be more than they are. The instinct to know their own kind and to recognize mundanes for what they are.

 Originally Posted By: Asmedious

At the very least we will be able to determine if the ONA is truly made up of “elite” individuals who actually made something of their lives in the real world while adopting the ONA philosophy

Nope - you can only do that if you meet and hang out with us. or - and far more worthwhile - you yourself try and live the life. Otherwise all you'll probably get is an impression, and often an inaccurate one based on some assumption or other of yours.

Otherwise it's using words (and ideas) to judge - when it should be direct personal experience, your own or that arising from personal knowing of us.

One point of my original post was indeed to see what others thought, or maybe even more important, what they felt about the matter. To see if their own character resonated with a way that is amoral in practice and which allows, encourages, the individual to develop by practical experience and use their own judgement. A way which doesn't require belief or any of that old aeon nonsense.
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