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#48786 - 02/13/11 12:43 PM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Or even PAT Vobiscum, his secretary/cousin/sex puppet. Yep.
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#48787 - 02/13/11 12:45 PM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: Clarence]
TrollovGrimness Offline
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Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Montreal
I hear what you're saying but he warns directly in the book against taking his word out of control. He advocates having friends as well as enemies. Powerful friends.

If the 'Pax Vobiscum' is from earliest editions of the book I'd take it as a warning not to take what he is advocating out of control. I think Ragnar understood that if everyone took that book at face value and went pillaging the world would be a hell of a place.

The exagerated language is meant to part inspire I think also part to make fun of itself and its own outrageousness.

Its a very self aware book it knows how outlandish it is. I get the feeling when I read it that its meant to make you laugh/smile not go out and loot people.

To me it is book that has a clear message : "HAVE SOME RESTRAINT"

He gives the limits of human ambition, then at the end, says "slow down"


Edited by TrollovGrimness (02/13/11 12:47 PM)
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#48843 - 02/15/11 12:13 AM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: TrollovGrimness]
Clarence Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 61
Understood. If he were promoting revolution with himself as Prophet/Leader/Whatever, then it would make sense to advocate a limited form of solidarity in order to attract others. This solidarity would not be worth any more that the paper it was printed on - and dropped at the first sign of trouble or nearest convenience. "You'll want ere I shall" etc.

This phiosophy might seem outrageous in our rather sedate modern world. Still, I do feel it is applicable in its purest form, if somewhat quixotic - one man set against the whole world. The Berserkir spring to mind - and so too the Buccaneers, Bush Rangers, Outlaws and Gangsters. I remember Dillinger, Ned Kelly, Blackbeard, Al Capone: the sinister men and women, the romantics. That is where we find Redbeard.

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#49777 - 02/25/11 10:23 PM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: Clarence]
TrollovGrimness Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Montreal
Even calling himself a pen name like RAGNAR REDBEARD...

He's making a parody he's made a character.

Seriously.. don't any of you get it? It's SATIRE.

"Ragnar" is a joke.
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#49819 - 02/26/11 05:37 AM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: TrollovGrimness]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
In that respect, one could look at the Satanic Bible as a joke too, would one comfortably ignore everything else Lavey ever wrote or said.

If Might is Right is a joke, he surely kept joking all life long.

I think you perceive it as what you prefer to perceive it because there is a part of you that can't come to terms with it.

PS: considering he's from Irish descent; Redbeard makes more sense than one thinks. Or, when speculating, it might be a tribute to Frederick Barbarossa or even a figure like Ragnar Lodbrok.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (02/26/11 06:20 AM)

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#50298 - 03/01/11 11:56 PM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: Diavolo]
JMM Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 29
Loc: Michigan
I have just begun reading this book myself. I am on chapter three. I like it but it does seem really exaggerated in making very blunt statements about what people or maybe just what I "think" sometimes without actually acting on it. Maybe the best way to say it, is that TO ME, its like someone took the polite filter off of everyday situations and it seems to advocate just kicking someones ass were tha the solution to every day stressful or confrontational situations. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my take on it SO FAR. Ill keep reading. Anyway, one thing is bugging me. The very beginning. The statement
"Behold the crucifix, what does it symbolize? Palid incompetence hanging on a tree"

I have never read this book but I have seen that statement somehwere before. Its a bold statement. I grew up going to church and at age 17 I quit going and ventured into reading buddha, taoism, "the prophet" by khalil gibran, and eventually the apocrypha, the libre de solomon, and so on, and I KNOW I've seen that statement somewhere else. I was thinking paradise lost but I don't think so, milton wasn't slandering god in that book, and the divine comedy was written by Dante, a pilgrim, so I don't believe it was there either, but I can't recall any dark literature where its popped up.

Maybe its a silly as some goth band or metal band putting it on their cover art, but does anyone know where its been used in modern culture besides that book...its drivin me nuts. Not a big deal I just can't recall... when I read paradise lost and came to the statement "its better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven" it did the same thing until I remembered it was an AC/DC lyric. I felt silly tracking it back but I had NO network like this at my disposal so it took me a while...

Just wondered if anyone could lend me a hand here. No big deal if not... thanks.
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#50307 - 03/02/11 02:35 AM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: JMM]
Simon Jester Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 36
 Quote:
one thing is bugging me. The very beginning. The statement
"Behold the crucifix, what does it symbolize? Palid incompetence hanging on a tree" ... I KNOW I've seen that statement somewhere else.



Very likely. Probably not attributable to the Buddah, though. Have you checked out Shakespeare? Maybe his apocryphal works ? ;\)

If you take a look at The Satanic Bible, which can be found in the Media Room, you just might be in luck. LaVey ripped off some of the more inflammatory portions of MIR for his Book of Satan.

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#50320 - 03/02/11 07:50 AM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: Simon Jester]
JMM Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 29
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: Simon Jester
 Quote:
one thing is bugging me. The very beginning. The statement
"Behold the crucifix, what does it symbolize? Palid incompetence hanging on a tree" ... I KNOW I've seen that statement somewhere else.



Very likely. Probably not attributable to the Buddah, though. Have you checked out Shakespeare? Maybe his apocryphal works ? ;\)

If you take a look at The Satanic bible, which can be found in the Media Room, you just might be in luck. LaVey ripped off some of the more inflammatory portions of MIR for his Book of Satan.


Thought so. And no shakespaeres apocrypha pales in comparison to Dr Seuss' :P
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#50501 - 03/05/11 10:36 PM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: JMM]
TrollovGrimness Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Montreal
LaVey claims in his forward to Might Is Right (reprint) that the first or one of the earlier additions of Satanic Bible was written 'To Ragnar Redbeard whose Might was Right".

Later changed it to Dianne

I have the book at a parent's house though and cant double check but anyway I clearly remember something to that effect.


Edited by TrollovGrimness (03/05/11 10:38 PM)
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#50573 - 03/07/11 08:41 PM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: TrollovGrimness]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I located the below Satanic Bible dedications in an underground edition of The Satanic Bible in Born’s library.

To: Bernadino Logara, who knew the value of money
Karl Haushofer, a teacher without a classroom
Rasputin, who knew the magic of a child
Sir Basil Zaharoff, a gentleman
Cagliostro, a rogue
Barnabas Saul, the link with Mount Lalesh
Ragnar Redbeard, whose might is right
William Mortensen, who looked . . . and saw
Hans Brick, who knows the law
Max Reinhardt, a builder of dreams
Orrin Klapp, the walking man
Fritz Lang, who made moving blueprints
Friedrich Nietzsche, a realist
William Claude Dukinfield, who saved me a journey to Tibet
Phineas Taylor Barnum, another great guru
Hans Pöelzig, who knew all the angles
Reginald Marsh, a great artist
Wilhelm Reich, who knew more than cabinet‐making
Mark Twain, a very brave man

And to: Howard Hughes, James Moody, Marcello Truzzi, Adrian‐Claude Frazier, Marilyn Monroe, Wesley Mather, William Lindsay Gresham, Hugo Zacchini, Jayne Mansfield, Frederick Goerner, C.Huntley, Nathaniel West, Horatio Alger, Robert Ervin Howard, George Orwell, Howard Phillips Lovecraft, Tuesday Weld, H.G. Wells, Sister Marie Koven, Harry Houdini, Togare, and the Nine Unknown

Some very useful comments regarding these dedications can be located in Dr. Aquino’s C/S ebook as Appendix 13, Pages 507-509.

The comments were written by Dr. Flowers from his work Lords of the Left Hand Path.

To be honest I am not too concerned about whether Redbeard is joking or sending himself, or something else up. I think the work is to be taken seriously within the context of Satanism.

But, Redbeard is just one aspect of a very rich tapestry.

I also think the book was always 'for Diane.'

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#70660 - 09/06/12 12:13 PM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: ]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
I have always wondered why Anton LaVey repeatedly insinuated the author of Might is Right was Jack London. This assertion is not taken seriously by any London scholar. The book was published in 1896. London was 20 years old. Unlike Redbeard (and LaVey for that matter), London meticulously cited sources. LaVey's claim was completely unsubstantiated. I like a lot of LaVey's work, but this claim was ... bullshit.

Jack London: Running with the Wolves

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#105448 - 02/06/16 10:47 AM Re: Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard [Re: Le Deluge]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6789
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: TG
Seriously.. don't any of you get it? It's SATIRE.


Satire simply describes a style of writing to make a point. Is the point itself a falsehood?


"The natural world is a world of war; the natural man is a warrior; the natural law is tooth and claw. All else is error. A condition of combat everywhere exists. We are born into a perpetual conflict."

"The victor gets the gold and the land every time. He also gets the fairest maidens, the glory tributes. And — why should it be otherwise?"

^These are simply observable truths. The living forces of evil in the moral ideas of today, is that greed is abhorrent, and the victors are villains (including those that inherit it).

Why are those that seize opportunity, achieve power by acquiring wealth the adversary?

The Occupy Movement is a recent example of this moralizing. Man as carnivore is apparent. If the tables shifted and one of the many whiners shifted to the 1% (even if only winning a lottery) the dynamic of their world view changes. The necessity in this moralizing would have every Iconoclast be a humanitarian (the Kardashians come to mind as another).

We inherit this conflict at birth. One man builds a cage. The force of many subdues the one into incarceration and Might Makes Right.

The point made about the crucifix and Jesus as an utter failure demonstrates this.

"Might was Right when Caesar bled
upon the stones of Rome,
Might was Right when Joshua led
his hordes o’er Jordan’s foam,
And Might was Right when German troops
poured down through Paris gay;
It’s the Gospel of the Ancient World
and the Logic of To-day.
Behind all Kings and Presidents —
all government and law,
Are army-corps and cannoneers —
to hold the world in awe.
And sword-strong races own the earth
and ride the Conqueror’s Car —
And LIBERTY has ne’er been won
except by deeds of war.
What are the lords of horded gold —
the silent SEMITE rings?
What are the plunder patriots —
high pontiffs, priests and kings?
What are they but bold master-minds,
best fitted for the fray
Who comprehend and vanquish by —
the Logic of To-day.
Cain’s knotted club is scepter still —
the “Rights of Man” is fraud.
Christ’s Ethics are for creeping things —
true manhood smiles at “God”.
For Might is Right when empires sink
in storms of steel and flame;
And it is RIGHT when weakling breeds —
are hunted down like game.
Then what’s the use of dreaming dreams,
that each shall “get his own”
By forceless votes of meek-eyed thralls,
who blindly sweat and moan?
No! A curse is on their cankered brains —
their very bones decay:
Go! Trace your fate in the Iron Game,
is the Logic of To-day.
The strong must ever rule the weak,
is grim Primordial Law —
On earth’s broad racial threshing floor,
the meek are beaten straw —
Then ride to power o’er foemen’s necks
let NOTHING bar your way:
If you are FIT you’ll Rule and Reign,
is the Logic of To-day.
You must prove your Right by deeds of Might
of splendor and renown.
If need-be march through flames of hell,
to dash opponents down.
If need-be die on scaffolds high —
in the morning’s misty gray.
For “Liberty or Death” is still
the Logic of To-day.
Might was Right when Gideon led
the “chosen” tribes of old,
And it was right when Titus burnt,
their temple roofed with gold:
And Might was Right from Bunker’s Hill,
to far Manila Bay,
By land and flood it’s wrote in blood —
the Gospel of To-day.
“Put not your trust in princes”
is a saying old and true,
“Put not your hope in governments”
translateth it anew.
All “Books of Law” and “Golden Rules”
are fashioned to betray:
“The Survival of the Strongest”
is the Gospel of To-day.
Might was Right when Carthage flames
lit up the Punic foam —
And — when the naked steel of Gaul
weighed down the spoil of Rome;
And Might was Right when Richmond fell —
and at Thermopayle —
It’s the logic of the Ancient World —
and the Gospel of To-day.
Where pendant suns in millions swing,
around this whirling earth,
It’s Might, it’s Force that holds the brakes,
and steers through life and death:
Force governs all organic life,
inspires all Right and Wrong.
It’s natures plan to weed-out man
and TEST who are the strong"


It could be argued that the story of the crucifixion is a way that nature puts one to the test; for all ideas are natural forces.

Let us be men — whole men — not clamorous, tearful little children
demanding infantile sugar-plumbs.


As LaVey put it, "The god you save may be yourself."

I know I wasn't just going to sit around and wait for a hero. I knew this at a very young age. I took steps to change my situation. I endured and I bled for it vs. "Christly comfort and consolation". I would not carry my cross, nor hang myself upon it.

Iconoclasm doesn't require public fanfare and by holding yourself as the most-high, even stepping on a few heads along the way, doesn't require morals either.

"The problem that we are ever called upon to solve or be eaten up, is not how to make life ‘happy and equal’ for happiness is a moving mirage, and equality an impossibility but how men may conquer their Opportunities, surpass their Rivals, extirpate their Pursuers. "

You won't always get away with shit and if you tuck-tail and run in the face of adversity, your power is thus degenerated.

"Degenerates only are thus affrighted at the tragic majesty of their surroundings. "

You win some, you lose some but do you stop fighting? I think not.
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