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#4271 - 02/16/08 10:42 AM Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Greetings

I was at a friends house last night and he had his TV on MSNBC and they were talking about Religion inside the Prisons. There was a Prison in Chicago that allows prisoners to practice whatever religion they choose to. They provided all the material that the inmates requested and had a book shelf set up that had each section for each religion.

They had a guy who spoke openly about practicing Satanism and they showed him doing a ritual inside a chamber they had set up for him to practice. He was allowed lit candles an athame an altar and a Baphomet sigil on the wall.

I just think that its a good ideal to allow people to practice there religion while being in jail and not to put them down for it or to kill them for there beliefs, like what other countries do if they find out you practice Satanism or Witchcraft.

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#4277 - 02/16/08 03:29 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: Noc]
Demigod666 Offline
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Registered: 02/13/08
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I think its great that this is allowed in chicago but they should allow inmates in all prisons across the world to practice there own religion,since they allow us to read the bible an allow a priest to come an read the book of god an pray for that inmate they should allow the practice of Satanism an the right to read the Satanic Bible upon request!!

But i also know a school i use to go to that allowed me an my followers to practice an study Satanism in a class room that didnt need all the classmates or teachers to approve of what we study an i think that this is another thing that should be allowed in schools as well as jail,prison or work if this is a country of freedom then why are we not free to practice our own religions?..An i know that this will never happen but if we can get someone in the whitehouse who shares are religion then he might have the chance to change the fucked up laws we have an give us the right to practice our own religions within our schools,prisons,jails or work place.
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#4287 - 02/16/08 07:47 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: Demigod666]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Yeah because they say Freedom of Religion ,and that should mean all religions
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#4298 - 02/17/08 08:29 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: Noc]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
If he was in prison, how on earth did security allow him to use an athame, even in ritual??? Hell, they're not allowed to have anything that could even remotely be used either as a weapon, or to break themselves out of jail. The candles and sigil I could understand would be permissable, but not a sharp object, no way, not even in minimum security detention centers.
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#4299 - 02/17/08 09:25 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: Nemesis]
rob_church Offline
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Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
im with nemesis on this, no fucking way they would let a blade inside. you have to use plastic cutlery they would never let you have a athame.
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#4373 - 02/20/08 01:09 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: rob_church]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
From what I seen on the show the guy had an athame, it looked real but it could have been a plastic blade but looked very real. It showed 2 guys and they were locked inside a special prison cell they called there chamber. They had a Baphomet sigil hanging on the wall over there altar. The altar had lit candles spread all over there altar. They were filming the guy standing at his altar reading from his book and holding his athame as he pointed it toward the sigil. I don't know if it was real or plastic but he had an athame and it was on MSNBC
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#4375 - 02/20/08 02:18 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: Noc]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
This reminds me of when I heard that the British Navy allowed one of their ship mates to practice Satanism whilst aboard a vessel. Ann Widdecombe didn't like that at all from what I read, spouting off things like "Satanism is wrong". If she did her homework, she might not have come out with such crap.

Sorry, going off on a tangent yet again.

Anyway, back to the point, This is a sign of slow progress in society. Although we shouldn't let our guard down, as it could be a trap. We'll wait and see what happens to the Satanic prisoners and the Satanic sailor, then we can evaluate whether this is a good thing or not.
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#4377 - 02/20/08 02:27 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DistroyA]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I disagree.

I don't think people should have the luxury of practicing any religion in Jail. They are there as a punishment and they should get exactly that. A punishment. Allowing them to practice a religion is allowing them a freedom, if they are in Jail they are entitled to no such thing. They are state property until stated otherwise. Commit the crime and you loose the right to be a human being, you are at the mercy of the court until they see fit to releace you. Prison is too damn easy for people now.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4387 - 02/20/08 07:37 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
I don't think people should have the luxury of practicing any religion in Jail. They are there as a punishment and they should get exactly that. A punishment. Allowing them to practice a religion is allowing them a freedom, if they are in Jail they are entitled to no such thing.


Actually, now I think about it, I take back my original statement.


Edited by DistroyA (02/20/08 07:38 PM)
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#4407 - 02/20/08 11:33 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DistroyA]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I have little sympathy for prisoners. If you're stupid enough to break the law then you deserve everything you get. There are exceptions, like people who are falsely arrested or countries with stupid laws like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, but if you live in a "Westernised" country and break the law you should do hard time.

Prisoners in the UK get cable TV, a common room with board games, a FREE college education, internet access for 1 hour per day, free access to a gym, free access to a library, three meals a day, a warm bed, the ability to practice their religion and just recently once a week they are allowed to watch porn in there rooms for "relif of sexual tension".

I spent 4 months homeless living on the streets for most of it. I ate when I had food and slept on benches or in feilds. I had nothing and I suffered through it. Prison would have been cushy by comparison. There's clearly something wrong with the system.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4428 - 02/21/08 07:03 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Yeah, I think I wasn't thinking properly or rationally last night. I honestly think you're correct on this matter TC. The problem with today's government is the fact they're pussy-footing around problems. Fuck, they even stopped caning in schools, and look how bad the youth of today has become. The villain really is becoming the victor these days. And this is thanks to our crap law system.

Y'know, I feel that humiliation is the best method to stop people from committing crimes and such. Bring back the stocks and bring in more modern ways of humiliating people, and that should stop them from committing further crimes. Obviously, this is for the ones who actually have committed crimes over here and completely deserve it of course....
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#4439 - 02/21/08 11:24 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DistroyA]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Again, the only problem with treating criminals like this is we are not perfect and sometimes innocent people go down for crimes they didn't commit. Would you want people subjected to such things unduely.

However the idea of the stocks is something I like. Having someone humiliated does cause people to avoid crime, especially if you spent 48 hours in stocks in the town square, no rest, no sleep, no food and with people allowed to throw fruit/veg or spit on you as they pass... you're not commiting GBH again are you.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5237 - 03/10/08 10:52 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
TheMask Offline
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Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
I disagree.

I don't think people should have the luxury of practicing any religion in Jail. They are there as a punishment and they should get exactly that. A punishment. Allowing them to practice a religion is allowing them a freedom, if they are in Jail they are entitled to no such thing. They are state property until stated otherwise. Commit the crime and you loose the right to be a human being, you are at the mercy of the court until they see fit to releace you. Prison is too damn easy for people now.


You do make a very good post. I agreed with the people before you before i read your post so you made me change my mind, in a way.

The problem is - You look at criminals as nothing but criminals.
What about the criminals that shouldnt be criminals in the first place? Such as people that have murdered people that deserved it only to later go to jail about it? Should people practicing justice have to be punished to the extent that you are suggesting?

You are correct, there is something very wrong with this system. Prisoners do get taken care of real good in prison and its actually fucking ridiclious. I should know since i live in Sweden, Saddam Hussein asked to be put in jail here because the reputation of the countries pussyness goes all the way down to Iraq. We give pedophiles max 1 year punishments over here for fuck sake.

But thats not all that is wrong. To me its very wrong that some people go to jail for defending themselves (like in this country) and for killing people that deserved it, such as rapists who have raped someone you know or love and pedophiles that have raped your daughter or sister.

Should these people have to be punished, or even put in jail?
You did make a good point but you also have to keep my point in mind.


 Originally Posted By: DistroyA
Fuck, they even stopped caning in schools, and look how bad the youth of today has become.


That statement was nothing but retarded to me. Youre suggesting that we should beat children in order to get them to obey? I was pretty sure the laws of any Satanism went against that.


Edited by TheMask (03/10/08 10:53 PM)

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#5245 - 03/11/08 12:09 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
My dad used corporal punishment when I was a child and I turned out fine. I hated him for hitting me at the time, but he never caused injury or did anything excessive. He just smacked me when I misbehaved. By the time I was 8 years old I didn't misbehave. Pain is a tool that can teach children not to do things, and it works.

I plan to have kids. I will smack my kids. I will not beat my kids. Children are primal in the way they think, they are intrinsically self obsessed, self absorbed and selfish. They will do what they want. If they link that act to recieving pain, they are less likely to do it. Once they are old enough to understand reason painful punishments are not needed but it does work.

As for the original point. There is no way, legally that you can justify killing someone. If someone raped my sister I would find him, catch him, torture him, kill him... slowly, and I would take great pleasure in doing so. I would also go to prison if caught, and I'd do it anyway. I know killing that guy is wrong, but I feel the punishment is a price worth paying, doesn't mean it should be legal for me to do that.

Murder = Illegal.
You can't claim you're justified in any situation bar self defense. It is ALWAYS wrong. Society depends on this.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5257 - 03/11/08 12:52 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
TheMask Offline
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Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
My parents used to smack me around and i hated them for it.
Even up until months ago i hated them for it. I still dont like what they did and i think it was wrong.

Talking to children instead of beating them is less caveman-ish to me and i will try not to sink to that level. I think that educating them in a matter instead of slapping them is the way to go since parents smacking their kids around are simply lazy.


And yes, sure. I simply feel that punishing people that have done so is wrong in my opinion and i wouldnt really call killing that guy wrong.
I simply feel that acts like that should be praised and not condoned. Thats why i think there would be a shame in having those prisoners mistreated more to that extent. The laws are fucked up according to me.

But of course, i think that the justified murderers are in a minority so that doesnt mean the whole bunch of people who actually deserve punishment shouldnt get it.


Edited by TheMask (03/11/08 12:55 AM)

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#5274 - 03/11/08 06:34 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
Commit the crime and you loose the right to be a human being, you are at the mercy of the court until they see fit to releace you. Prison is too damn easy for people now.


I'm sorry TC, but how does one loose the right to be a human being? It's not a right it is a fact.

Whilst I understand what you are saying, I totally dissagree with people loosing the right to practice their religions, or philosophies in gaol.

The way you describe gaol in England it sounds like a holiday. Somehow I doubt the reality is really that pleasant. People are taken from their families, friends and way of life. I would personally just find being locked up a HUGE punishment.

Most people in gaol in America and Australia are suffering from mental illness and ALOT of them are in there for drug offences that they have incurred by trying to self medicate. I totally disagree with the Australian drug laws, so I don't think people in gaol for drug possesion should have the right to be human taken away from them.

You say you would do the time if you murdered someone, but what about if you were defending your home and you killed the perpetrator by accident? Would you want loose your right to be a human then?

I say give them whatever they need if it helps them reflect on their previous life and maybe work towards rehabilitating them.

Practising your religion is a long way off watching such luxuries as pay tv as you say they now have.

Empathy and compassion are not bad qualities to possess.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#5285 - 03/11/08 11:05 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Self defense is always an exception to the rule when it come to murder. But that aside. If jail (or gaol as you're spelling it, which I always thought was the Irish spelling, but it's not an issue), was such an awful place you wouldn't need to defend your home because people would not be attacking you. The prospect of being in jail is too horrible.

I may seem cruel, but my opinion is simple when it comes to fair and just laws, you break the law expect to be treated cruely and without mercy. At the moment we don't have that, instead it's expect free room and board, education, gym membership, TV, internet access and medical treatment. This isn't right. My taxes are going to pay for this cushy lifestyle, for people who have hurt my friend and family. That can't be right. They should get bare minimum. 2 meals a day, a blacket and a bucket. This is all they deserve.

People who commit petty or accidental crime however should not be treated harshly. The homeless guy who steals a loaf of bread to stay alive should be given a chance to EARN his meals not a punishment for staying alive. A guy defending his girlfriend who accidentally kills a guy should be commended for his valor. Sure he was a little too forceful, and if he used a unreasonable level of force he should pay. Caving someones head in after they're already incapacitated isn't just, punching someone and them falling and cracking there head open is fine.

Justice is unfortunately subjective, and reguardless of how much we try we will never achieve true natural justice. Life by it's very nature is cruel, unkind and unfair. However I beleive that we can gain a close aproximation of true justice and i don't think we have this at present.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5286 - 03/11/08 11:08 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TheMask Offline
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Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
The problem is that some criminals can actually live by being criminals. They can always lay back on the prisons to give them shelter, food and such things in these lazy prisons. Doesnt seem like simple isolation is a crime fit in that case.

I dont think normal isolation is a crime fit for people that deserve actual punishment. In that case you could might as well give everybody house arrest without any elictricity for your TV.

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#5317 - 03/11/08 08:50 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
 Originally Posted By: TheMask
 Originally Posted By: DistroyA
Fuck, they even stopped caning in schools, and look how bad the youth of today has become.


That statement was nothing but retarded to me. Youre suggesting that we should beat children in order to get them to obey? I was pretty sure the laws of any satanism went against that.

No, I don't suggest that we beat our children up, as that's fucking disgusting. I was smacked as a child for doing anything wrong, and that was very rarely, as I was good kid. My bro was the one who caused most trouble, and he got more punishments, and he's turned out fine. Same as me.

When I have children, I will smack them if they do anything wrong. And quite frankly, I don't see a problem with that.

As for the cane, it was just a slightly extreme way of smacking a child. I'd have to say, I'd keep in line if I got caned for doing anything bad.

You obviously think that talking to children these days will solve problems. Most of them will laugh at you for it. Especially over here in Britain. Things might be peachy where you live, but it isn't over here mate.

And yes, you are very correct; Satanism does not agree with harming of children, but a slap on the bum or back of the legs does not harm a child. it just teaches discipline in some respects. Punching a child is a different thing altogether. Anyone who does that should die slowly and very painfully.

And please, don't accuse me of such things again. I won't tolerate it at all.

Have a nice evening...

DistroyA


Edited by DistroyA (03/11/08 08:52 PM)
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#5323 - 03/11/08 09:15 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Originally Posted By: TheMask
My parents used to smack me around and i hated them for it.
Even up until months ago i hated them for it. I still dont like what they did and i think it was wrong.


Perhaps your parents hit you for the wrong reasons, ie, just to hit you, taking out their aggression on you, or because you were just doing things a normal child would do and it bothered them. If that were the case, then absolutely yes, it was wrong of them do to so.

 Quote:
Talking to children instead of beating them is less caveman-ish to me and i will try not to sink to that level. I think that educating them in a matter instead of slapping them is the way to go since parents smacking their kids around are simply lazy.


The problem with children today is not because they are being smacked by their parents, but because of this very mentality you are espousing. As TC mentioned in a previous post, children are primal animals, and do not learn to properly communicate with their parents (reaching for the bottle and making a face is not on the same level as reasoning skills). They only have a rudimentary understanding of the world around them, and repeatedly trying to reason with a three year old who is screaming their head off in a supermarket is not going to do the trick. At the same time, it is not conducive to shaping a child's adult behavior to just smack them with no reason. The best way to discipline is to have warning stages.

1. Before an outing, be sure the child knows what behavior is and is not acceptable, and let them know what the consequences will be if they misbehave.

2. When the child misbehaves, give them warning #1. Take him/her away from other people, get down on their level and look them in the eyes when you give them the warning. If you just tell them, "Bobby, knock it off!" and carry on with what you're doing, they'll know you're not paying any attention and will try to do it again. They'll also have less respect for any warnings you may give them in the future.

3. If they do it again, take them out of the room and give them a quick spanking. No need for beating, arm wrenching or anything like that. It is the humiliation that hurts worse than a spanking. Also, do not reinforce any negative ideas after the punishment that makes them feel even worse, like, "See what you made me do?" or "You make mommy so mad!" If you warned that you were going to leave a place (ie McDonalds) if he/she cuts up, then leave, screaming child and all. The important thing is to make good on your promises. No more, no less. If they improved their behavior, either after the warning or on the way home, make note of it and praise them for it. It'll bring their self esteem back up and life can return to normal by the time you get home.

The Egyptians said it best in an ancient proverb, "A boy's ear is on his back." Harsh by our standards, but it worked for them.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#5326 - 03/11/08 09:55 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: Nemesis]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
I knew that I would learn a little more after joining these forums. Thank you for such advice and wisdom concerning children. I'll remember that. \:\)
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#5340 - 03/11/08 10:53 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DistroyA]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
If jail (or gaol as you're spelling it, which I always thought was the Irish spelling, but it's not an issue), was such an awful place you wouldn't need to defend your home because people would not be attacking you. The prospect of being in jail is too horrible.


Firstly it's spelt like that in Australia as well. Maybe we got it from the irish I don't know, but that's how I was taught to spell it at school. \:\)

Secondly and to the actual point of the thread, if you were right in what you are saying about the prospect of a truly horrible gaol being a bigger deterent I would find that beleivable if it wasn't for a few things.

1) Asian gaols are notoriously horrible, yet they still have plenty of people commiting crimes that put them in there.
2) If say the death penalty was a deterent, then the states in America that had it wouldn't have higher crime rates than the states that don't have it.
3) Drug addiction is one of the biggest contributors to crime and the amount of people in gaol. Find solutions to the drug problem and alot of petty crime (like break ins) would stop.

The way you present your case on why someone shouldn't be allowed to have their religion in gaol sounds like the majority of the people in these institutions are murderers and rapists. This is just not the case.

ZephyrGril
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#5346 - 03/11/08 11:27 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: Nemesis]
TheMask Offline
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Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
Distroya - Perhaps you are right but your statement was still retarded to me since it suggested serious beatings so it wasnt very hard not to accuse you of that.
However, you do have a point. Some children even do deserve more then little spankings sometimes when i come to think of it. I guess my bad experiences on the subject made me a bit biased on the subject. My parents didnt really use the slapping efficently.

Either way, the great part of this forum is that you can learn from your errors. \:\)


 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
 Originally Posted By: TheMask
My parents used to smack me around and i hated them for it.
Even up until months ago i hated them for it. I still dont like what they did and i think it was wrong.


Perhaps your parents hit you for the wrong reasons, ie, just to hit you, taking out their aggression on you, or because you were just doing things a normal child would do and it bothered them. If that were the case, then absolutely yes, it was wrong of them do to so.

 Quote:
Talking to children instead of beating them is less caveman-ish to me and i will try not to sink to that level. I think that educating them in a matter instead of slapping them is the way to go since parents smacking their kids around are simply lazy.


The problem with children today is not because they are being smacked by their parents, but because of this very mentality you are espousing. As TC mentioned in a previous post, children are primal animals, and do not learn to properly communicate with their parents (reaching for the bottle and making a face is not on the same level as reasoning skills). They only have a rudimentary understanding of the world around them, and repeatedly trying to reason with a three year old who is screaming their head off in a supermarket is not going to do the trick. At the same time, it is not conducive to shaping a child's adult behavior to just smack them with no reason. The best way to discipline is to have warning stages.

1. Before an outing, be sure the child knows what behavior is and is not acceptable, and let them know what the consequences will be if they misbehave.

2. When the child misbehaves, give them warning #1. Take him/her away from other people, get down on their level and look them in the eyes when you give them the warning. If you just tell them, "Bobby, knock it off!" and carry on with what you're doing, they'll know you're not paying any attention and will try to do it again. They'll also have less respect for any warnings you may give them in the future.

3. If they do it again, take them out of the room and give them a quick spanking. No need for beating, arm wrenching or anything like that. It is the humiliation that hurts worse than a spanking. Also, do not reinforce any negative ideas after the punishment that makes them feel even worse, like, "See what you made me do?" or "You make mommy so mad!" If you warned that you were going to leave a place (ie McDonalds) if he/she cuts up, then leave, screaming child and all. The important thing is to make good on your promises. No more, no less. If they improved their behavior, either after the warning or on the way home, make note of it and praise them for it. It'll bring their self esteem back up and life can return to normal by the time you get home.

The Egyptians said it best in an ancient proverb, "A boy's ear is on his back." Harsh by our standards, but it worked for them.


Yes, i think they did since i wouldnt say that some of the slappings i got were very much deserved at all. I guess my parents were more of the "Im too lazy to talk so i will use the hand"-types.

But i see your point. That seems like a good way of raising a child. If i ever decide to have children i will definetly take your advice into consideration.


Edited by TheMask (03/11/08 11:29 PM)

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#5377 - 03/12/08 11:34 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Yeah, I suppose I did word it in an idiotic manner. I think i was a bit too blunt (of which I can be sometimes, so apologies for that and for anything else in advance) about the whole subject.

Anyways, my opinion on punishment as a whole for both criminals AND for when your children do something wrong is a relevant form of humiliation. A spanking for kids will do fine (unless they act like complete assholes, then they deserve a little bit worse a punishment...), and as for criminals, they need a much worse kind of humiliation. And as we all know, no-one likes to be humiliated.

There's always the talk of bringing back the death penalty over here in Britain, and I'm kinda sitting on the fence between agreeing and disagreeing. I disagree on one part, as humiliating and degrading the individual criminal will make them think twice about committing said crime again (I'm kinda generalising here, so please don't think that I think petty crime, such as nicking a loaf of bread to feed one's self or one's family, should be punished in the same way).

However, I kinda agree with the death penalty being bought back for the most extreme cases and only used as a last resort. This is to keep extremely dangerous individuals from harming the public, even after initial punishment.

If you're all wondering why I bought the death penalty up, I was having a discussion with a friend over the death penalty, both of us providing different perspectives over the topic. I thought I'd share my thoughts with you all on that.

What do you all think about that issue?
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#5409 - 03/12/08 07:08 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DistroyA]
TheMask Offline
member


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
Its no problem really, i do it as well sometimes. No apologies needed.
The only counter-argument for the death penalty that i am aware of which makes sense to me is that theres a risk people who are falsely accused and sentenced for a crime they didnt commit dying for nothing.

Otherwise i am strongly for it. But with a little touch of my own to the punishment. I feel that the ones who deserve this punishment should be tortured a few times before being put to death since death is kind of an easy way out for commiting a horrible crime.

The ones i feel deserve this punishment is mostly rapists - But also murderers who have murdered someone that didnt do much harm to anybody or simply murder without much reason. Plain ignorance too. An example of plain ignorance would be "I murdered him for looking at me a certain way".

Revenge is a valid reason to murder somebody but it also depends on the situation. Someone stealing an orange from you isnt really worth going and killing. Perhaps beating up i dont know about killing.


What bugs me is that we are actually paying tax money to keep these kinds of prisoners alive that shouldnt be alive in the first place for the crimes that they have commit.
It doesnt make sense to me paying to keep people alive that have ruined someone elses life. And once scum like rapists get out of jail they commit the same crime again and just go to a prison again. In order to prevent more lives being ruined capital punishment could solve that problem.

Think of the world as a PC and the rapist/murderer being a computer virus. Once you get rid of the virus - The PC is healthy, up and running again. You dont deal with that problem anymore.


One could also argue against capital punishment in the sense that death is a quick way out and cant be compared to 15 years of isolation. But what about the prisons that are nice and cozy and not much of a punishment at all?
We cant send everybody to Abu Ghraib. With that said i just bring my argument about not having to pay for those type of criminals up again.


Edited by TheMask (03/12/08 07:09 PM)

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#5413 - 03/12/08 07:28 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
You prove a valid point. Mind you, immense torture and taking away the human rights of an individual such as a rapist, paedophile or murderer seems a lot more satisfying.

Yeah, I agree that it could be detrimental in the case that someone was falsely convicted of a crime such as murder, but that's where full investigation around the case and possible interrogation of the accusers. Then there's the point of killing someone for a good reason and/or in self defence.

It's all very debatable. We first need a competent justice system before we can start thinking about appropriate punishments....
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#5416 - 03/12/08 07:45 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DistroyA]
TheMask Offline
member


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
Thank you. I do include pedophilia in the rapist-section since it is the same in a sense, only against a young child.
But even the matter of pedophilia is debatable in some cases. The laws in this country say that you cant have sex with anybody below the age of 15. I also think that the law says if the person is only 4 years younger, you have to pay a fine.

I myself think that 13 would be an appropriate age. My philosophy is that everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it only hurts themselves - So if both parts, perhaps a 14-year old with an taste in older men and a 30-year old decide to have sex - So be it. If its what they want.

This is theoretically speaking since i dont know how many 13-year olds would actually want to do that. But IF.

"It's all very debatable. We first need a competent justice system before we can start thinking about appropriate punishments...."

Exactly! The system would have to be reformed in order for capital punishment to work properly since the one we have now - At least in my country, obviously isnt working.
However i dont see this coming in a near future.


Edited by TheMask (03/12/08 07:47 PM)

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#5451 - 03/12/08 11:04 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Yes, I agree, people should be allowed to fulfil their own desires, provided that no other parties get hurt in the process.

No, the system isn't going to be reformed for a VERY long time. Really and truthfully, certain things in society, such as the law and order system and other factors in society, need to be eradicated before we can make improvements. It's a nihilistic viewpoint, but some of the things in today's world cannot be improved and are damaged beyond repair. Replacement is the only option really.

Sometimes, I scare myself with my train of thought.
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#5461 - 03/13/08 12:09 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: TheMask
Thank you. I do include pedophilia in the rapist-section since it is the same in a sense, only against a young child.
But even the matter of pedophilia is debatable in some cases. The laws in this country say that you cant have sex with anybody below the age of 15. I also think that the law says if the person is only 4 years younger, you have to pay a fine.

I myself think that 13 would be an appropriate age. My philosophy is that everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it only hurts themselves - So if both parts, perhaps a 14-year old with an taste in older men and a 30-year old decide to have sex - So be it. If its what they want.

This is theoretically speaking since i dont know how many 13-year olds would actually want to do that. But IF.

"It's all very debatable. We first need a competent justice system before we can start thinking about appropriate punishments...."

Exactly! The system would have to be reformed in order for capital punishment to work properly since the one we have now - At least in my country, obviously isnt working.
However i dont see this coming in a near future.
I'm not arguing with you Mask; just wondering about pedophilia.

At what age does a person begin having sexual feelings? I do notice little children touching themselves, but i don't consider this sexual like we would think of it. Than i myself began thinking sexual thoughts since I was maybe 9 0r 10; it was about the same time I starting doing things with myself you know...

what if i was curious about sex, and a 30 or 40 years old guy i knew and liked as a friend casually talked me into having sex.

I would still consider that not cool because one of use is still getting taken advantage of. I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe it should be up to each individual. As a future mother, i would kill any older bastard who had sex with my teenage daughter, regardless.
_________________________
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Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#5463 - 03/13/08 12:17 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Quite frankly Luciferific, I don't blame you for feeling that way. It's only natural that a mother be protective of her young, as it is natural for a father to act the same.

I will admit, when I was in my first relationship, when we both lost our virginity, she was one year below the age of consent. Thing is, I'm only a year older than her, so it's not that bad really (at least I don't think so), and that added to the fact that she was consenting. It was a very natural thing for us both.

As for people in their late 20-30s taking advantage of young teenagers, they should be punished in the appropriate manner; torture and degradation. So you got my support for that one.
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#5464 - 03/13/08 12:33 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to practice Satanism [Re: DistroyA]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: DistroyA
You prove a valid point. Mind you, immense torture and taking away the human rights of an individual such as a rapist, paedophile or murderer seems a lot more satisfying.


A point that needs to be made. Pedophillia is not a crime, it is a very unfortunate sexual alignement for which I have a great deal of sympathy. A child molester is a criminal. A pedophile merely has a sexual attraction towards children. The only difference between a homosexual and a pedophile is the object of there attraction. At least a homosexual can have consenting sex with the object of there desire, ie. the same sex. A pedophile must live with the knowledge that they feel sexually aroused by children, can never form a proper relationship, and in some extreme cases even find an adult body repulsive. Those people who can live like that, hiding it from everyone, never harming a child, yet still coping. They have my respect... and my pity.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5466 - 03/13/08 12:40 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to practice Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
I see. Sorry, I meant child molester. When I think of pedophiles, I think of child molesters usually. Thanks for correcting me where appropriate. \:\)

But back to the original point, rapists, child molesters and murderers should be punished in the most cruel way in my opinion, since they've committed cruel crimes. Seems only fitting really.
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#5499 - 03/13/08 05:55 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to practice Satanism [Re: DistroyA]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I only say that so passionately because I imagine the pain, embarassment, shame, maybe even self loathing that little misconception could cause someone reading this who may be keeping back that little secret. I wouldn't want that for anyone, especially someone who would most certainly have a hard time with it daily as it is. It's nothing against anyone individual, just a pet peeve of mine as these people are more misunderstood and hated in society than any other single group existing today, and all for one thing they didn't choose and have no control over.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5500 - 03/13/08 06:30 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to practice Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
DaVinci Offline
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Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
One of my exes was raped. She paraded herself around like a slut and, she deserved what she got. I think if women want to go around and parade themselves giving the impression to the general populace that "I want to be touched" -- then they deserve the discomfort. They should have more common sense. While I don't condone rape, some people just put themselves in that situation. Those that don't, I truly do feel sorry for them and will go out of my way to help catch the prick who did it.

I'm not implying that all women are like that; but with modern society as we know it, women are becoming more and more like explicit objects and they parade themselves around like such.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - Josť Narosky

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#5501 - 03/13/08 06:35 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to practice Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
That's fair play mate. I certainly wouldn't wish it upon someone I don't know to suffer in that respect. Those particular pedophiles are very strong people, holding in an urge so as to not harm any children.

I just meant the particular individuals who are so selfish that they do not consider other people's feelings. These individuals being the careless child molesters.

But back to the point you mentioned, I agree that the individuals that keep their desires to themselves so as to not harm others should be helped, rather than hated.

There's got to be a way to help these people...
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#5502 - 03/13/08 07:22 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to practice Satanism [Re: DistroyA]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: DistroyA

But back to the original point, rapists, child molesters and murderers should be punished in the most cruel way in my opinion, since they've committed cruel crimes. Seems only fitting really.


I would agree, however, when you consider the way our laws are at present some of them are a little excessive. It's quite easy for people to get accused of rape and even go down for it because the girl is drunk at the time... even if they where both drunk, just as an example. Also, alot of the time, it's nothing more than word against word, which unfortunately tends to result in people trusting the girl.

I would also go as far as you say grievous bodily harm should be added to the list. Sexual assault is given too much importance. Rape is not as bad as murder, not even close. GBH on the other hand is just as bad, in fact, probably worse than rape. You can get over emotional stress, and the physical damage is normally slight. With GBH, by it's very nature, people are crippled or serverely physically scared and disabled for the rest of their lives. Surely this is deserving of more attention than rape.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5503 - 03/13/08 07:32 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to practice Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Very true. Even though we've got the ideas for suitable punishments, what we (as in society) need to do is re-establish the law and order system, as it's too fucked up to allow any of the previously stated punishments.

As I stated earlier in the thread, we need to destroy what is present before we can improve, as it seems that none of the mistakes can be corrected. From my view point anyway....
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#5505 - 03/13/08 07:40 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to practice Satanism [Re: DistroyA]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
There's too much bureaucracy in our laws now. People need to scrap them and start again from scratch because, particually in Britain, we've been simply building on the same law system since 865AD, that's over 1000years with the same law system.

As Oscar Wilde once said ~ Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.

If we can just remove all the crap, make the book of codes, laws and strictures of great britain just a little smaller, I think we would have a better judicial system.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5531 - 03/13/08 10:38 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to practice Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
If a rapist is caught they should snip is you know what off, that way he will never want to rape again, a thief chop there hands off they can't carry anything with no hands, thats what they should do but to many people think its to cruel but yet they tend to forget what the victim of rape will live with everyday of there life.

Like in America you will serve more time if caught with weed then if you steal someones identity and ruing there life from it. But the Gov makes way more money on arresting people with weed because they just write off the identity theft and leave the American tax payers to foot the bill.

The system is all fucked up that is the truth but why take someones belief from them why they are in jail. They allow people to watch TV, workout, read, some even graduate high school while in prison, and none of those things are going to change a person's outlook or make them remorseful for what they have done. They should be harder on people in jails but not take away there free will to practice there beliefs.... Hell they allow some smuck to come in and preach to people about the bible, so why not allow people to practice witchcraft,Satanism or any other belief?

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#5548 - 03/13/08 02:55 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to practice Satanism [Re: Noc]
Sinistar Offline
member


Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
I agree that the system is flawed (probably severely), but if they started chopping off body parts, you'd have Saudi Arabia - as posted in another thread.

There is just no happy medium. We either have the Western system, which is too lenient on the real criminals and gives them too many liberties, or you have the Middle Eastern justice which is swift and too severe for the crime committed.

As far as religious freedom in prison: Most convicts never had it before they were incarcerated and are "born again" because of desparation or boredom.

That's just great that they show a convict engaging in a Satanic ritual. That's just more bad press for the community.
_________________________



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#5564 - 03/13/08 09:14 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
TheMask Offline
member


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
 Originally Posted By: LUCIFERIFIC
 Originally Posted By: TheMask
Thank you. I do include pedophilia in the rapist-section since it is the same in a sense, only against a young child.
But even the matter of pedophilia is debatable in some cases. The laws in this country say that you cant have sex with anybody below the age of 15. I also think that the law says if the person is only 4 years younger, you have to pay a fine.

I myself think that 13 would be an appropriate age. My philosophy is that everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it only hurts themselves - So if both parts, perhaps a 14-year old with an taste in older men and a 30-year old decide to have sex - So be it. If its what they want.

This is theoretically speaking since i dont know how many 13-year olds would actually want to do that. But IF.

"It's all very debatable. We first need a competent justice system before we can start thinking about appropriate punishments...."

Exactly! The system would have to be reformed in order for capital punishment to work properly since the one we have now - At least in my country, obviously isnt working.
However i dont see this coming in a near future.
I'm not arguing with you Mask; just wondering about pedophilia.

At what age does a person begin having sexual feelings? I do notice little children touching themselves, but i don't consider this sexual like we would think of it. Than i myself began thinking sexual thoughts since I was maybe 9 0r 10; it was about the same time I starting doing things with myself you know...

what if i was curious about sex, and a 30 or 40 years old guy i knew and liked as a friend casually talked me into having sex.

I would still consider that not cool because one of use is still getting taken advantage of. I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe it should be up to each individual. As a future mother, i would kill any older bastard who had sex with my teenage daughter, regardless.


Im not sure at what age it starts but i think its around 10 like you say. I know of a girl who lost her virginity when she was 12 i think, so it should be around that age.

Of course taking advantage of somebody sexually isnt right and should be considered rape.
But if the two persons involved are both in on it - I see no harm in it. I think thats what im trying to come across with here.
Theoretically if both people agree to it its all good. If they dont, then its a problem.

About the mother remark im sure that alot of parents would feel the same. Whether the girl is 12 or 16.


 Originally Posted By: DaVinci
One of my exes was raped. She paraded herself around like a slut and, she deserved what she got. I think if women want to go around and parade themselves giving the impression to the general populace that "I want to be touched" -- then they deserve the discomfort.


How does one parade themselves around like a slut exactly? Im curious to know exactly what she did to deserve that. But of course, if you dont want to get into detail that is fully understandable.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
GBH on the other hand is just as bad, in fact, probably worse than rape.


What is GBH? I looked it up on Wikipedia and didnt find anything logical.

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#5610 - 03/14/08 09:36 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
I don't know if this bit of information has been mentioned before, but I didn't see it in the discussion. A few days ago I saw a notice in an American online paper about how a prisoner had tried to become a member of The Church of Satan but had been turned down. The prisoner did not accepted this, and now tries to sue the CoS for discrimination and "emotional distress" because they turned him away. The notic included a link to the legal document used to faile the lawsuit. See http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2008/3/5/morning_links_5_march_2008

- Amina

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#5611 - 03/14/08 09:38 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
GBH = grievous bodily harm

It's basically the next stage up from assault. If it causes an injury that will be perminant such as blindness, removal of a limb, crushing a bodypart or organ to the point where that person will never truly recover, that is GBH. A simple broken bone is not GBH.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5619 - 03/14/08 01:15 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
How does one parade themselves around like a slut exactly? Im curious to know exactly what she did to deserve that. But of course, if you dont want to get into detail that is fully understandable.


Such things can include: fucking every bloke you meet, making home-made porno videos, etc. She had the attention because she made her advances known in public.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - Josť Narosky

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#5628 - 03/14/08 01:30 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
TheMask Offline
member


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
I dont think i would ever want to have a girlfriend like that. But still i dont think that gives someone the right to rape the person just because shes overly promiscious and into amature porn. However one should be prepared that if you dress slutty people will treat you like one.

But in a way that goes for me as well - If you dress black and gay youre going to be treated the same.
Its the people that are the problem and not the ones who want to express themselves. I wouldnt say that someone deserves rape based on that.

But of course i dont know much of the details of the case here so thats just the opinion i have so far.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
GBH = grievous bodily harm

It's basically the next stage up from assault. If it causes an injury that will be perminant such as blindness, removal of a limb, crushing a bodypart or organ to the point where that person will never truly recover, that is GBH. A simple broken bone is not GBH.


I understand, thanks for explaining.

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#5630 - 03/14/08 01:35 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
I dont think i would ever want to have a girlfriend like that. But still i dont think that gives someone the right to rape the person just because shes overly promiscious and into amature porn. However one should be prepared that if you dress slutty people will treat you like one.


She wasn't so much a girlfriend, more a "fuck-buddy" type of thing. Men like me got what we wanted out of her, and then just got rid of her. That's how she paraded herself, so that's how she got treated.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - Josť Narosky

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#5632 - 03/14/08 01:42 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DaVinci]
TheMask Offline
member


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
Ah yes, i see your point. I strongly disagree but it is your opinion.

Edited by TheMask (03/14/08 01:43 PM)

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#5633 - 03/14/08 01:44 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
I can understand why you would disagree, most women who do get raped don't deserve it at all. But it's the one's who put the message out there for half the public to read that I have zero sympathy for.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - Josť Narosky

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#5636 - 03/14/08 01:52 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DaVinci]
TheMask Offline
member


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
How do you mean, "put the message out there for half the public to read"? \:o Im a bit slow sometimes.

Some women actually do deserve to get raped. Im thinking about the kind that falsely accuse men of raping them when in fact its just to get back at an old boyfriend or they did have sex with someone else and didnt "like it", that was the case with a girl in this town of mine a little while ago. I hope that slut gets whats coming to her.

From what i understand now she had sex with a guy at a party while her friend was lying next to her and now after she got her money and the guy sentenced - She said that it wasnt rape and that she just didnt "like it". I dont get what thats supposed to even mean.


Edited by TheMask (03/14/08 01:53 PM)

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#5638 - 03/14/08 01:59 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: TheMask
How do you mean, "put the message out there for half the public to read"? \:o Im a bit slow sometimes.

Some women actually do deserve to get raped. Im thinking about the kind that falsely accuse men of raping them when in fact its just to get back at an old boyfriend or they did have sex with someone else and didnt "like it", that was the case with a girl in this town of mine a little while ago. I hope that slut gets whats coming to her.

From what i understand now she had sex with a guy at a party while her friend was lying next to her and now after she got her money and the guy sentenced - She said that it wasnt rape and that she just didnt "like it". I dont get what thats supposed to even mean.


By "put the message out there" I mean exactly that. Parading yourself around like a slut, being overly-flirtacious and being explicit 24/7. Making it know that your goal is to fuck like an animal with no strings attatched. That's what most men look for and, sometimes you'll get the odd-ball who will force himself because the female in question was giving out that impression. People should be more careful with the way they act around others.

As for the girl in your town, she does bloody deserve it!
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - Josť Narosky

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#5645 - 03/14/08 05:13 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DaVinci]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I greatly disagree there DaVinci, TheMask said maybe those who claim rape when they've not been raped deserve it, that I can agree with. No slut deserves rape. She deserves to be used as a sex object, discarded and given no sympathy or respect but she doesn't deserve rape. That's cruel, callous and vindictive assault that traumatises people for years. The idea how ever that rape ruins your life forever is bullshit though. Someone forced you into sex. It was horrible... now get over it. You're not perminantly disfigured, (unless the guy was truly sick minded), stop whinging about it.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5714 - 03/15/08 09:17 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DaVinci]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: DaVinci
By "put the message out there" I mean exactly that. Parading yourself around like a slut, being overly-flirtacious and being explicit 24/7.


That is very, very subjective. In some countries they rape women if they leave the house in jeans our without a Muslim Burka. They feel a right to do so because the women "looked like sluts". This is an insane religious idea that is used to explain male action as something they are not able to control because of the "satanic power" of female attraction (just look a Christian writings from the middle ages on this topic!). Sane people should be able to look at attractive females, sluts and pour nakedness without loosing there mind.

- Amina


Edited by Amina (03/15/08 09:22 AM)
Edit Reason: Text added

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#5717 - 03/15/08 10:03 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DaVinci]
TheMask Offline
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Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
"Sane people should be able to look at attractive females, sluts and pour nakedness without loosing there mind."

Well, i wouldnt really say "sane". "Insane" people sometimes have a better moral code then others.
I would rather say "Anybody who isnt an idiot". But i strongly agree with you.

 Originally Posted By: DaVinci
By "put the message out there" I mean exactly that. Parading yourself around like a slut, being overly-flirtacious and being explicit 24/7. Making it know that your goal is to fuck like an animal with no strings attatched. That's what most men look for and, sometimes you'll get the odd-ball who will force himself because the female in question was giving out that impression. People should be more careful with the way they act around others.

As for the girl in your town, she does bloody deserve it!


Ah yes, now i understand. But i have to say that i agree with TC, i think rape is way too harsh of a punishment for that.

If there should even be a punishment for that.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
The idea how ever that rape ruins your life forever is bullshit though. Someone forced you into sex. It was horrible... now get over it. You're not perminantly disfigured, (unless the guy was truly sick minded), stop whinging about it.


Your opinion of rape sounds rather light to me. Like you said, it leaves traumas for years. So that could last for the most part of your life, some suffer post-traumatic stress syndrome because of this so its not really like getting beat up downtown on a friday night.

However i agree that one can not get stuck in the act forever, so in order to survive you should eventually get over it.

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#5720 - 03/15/08 10:49 AM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
Amina Offline
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Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
In most cases it is hard to prove rape unless the rape was very violent and the victim went to the police within a few hours. In cases of drug rape you are often unable to prove force, and some of the drugs are undetectable after 12 hours or less. In a lot of cases the victim is too shocked to go to the police soon enough, and often the case is dropped because of lack of evidence. If it was viewed as righteous to rape women who told the police about a rape without any one being sentenced for the rape, I guess most women would be better off not going to the police in the first place. As it is a lot of women don't because they are to scared, because they just want to forget about the whole thing, because they can't handle the examinations and questions or because they are scared of being disbelieved.

- Amina

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#5729 - 03/15/08 03:25 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: TheMask

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
The idea how ever that rape ruins your life forever is bullshit though. Someone forced you into sex. It was horrible... now get over it. You're not perminantly disfigured, (unless the guy was truly sick minded), stop whinging about it.


Your opinion of rape sounds rather light to me. Like you said, it leaves traumas for years. So that could last for the most part of your life, some suffer post-traumatic stress syndrome because of this so its not really like getting beat up downtown on a friday night.

However i agree that one can not get stuck in the act forever, so in order to survive you should eventually get over it.


I don't want to seem like some kind of attention seeker here and I'm not one to normally talk about this but I have a strange compulsion to be open about this subject.

At the age of 10 I was sexually assalted by a 14 year old lad. It was extremely upsetting and it took me years to even tell anyone, even to this day I don't actually think I told anyone accept my parents and my first girlfriend (who I was with for years) and I waited 7 years before I told anyone.

I won't pretend it wasn't an awful thing, and what pisses me off more is I know exactly where the guy lives and he's never payed for this, not even slightly. But saying that, he was only 14 and kids do stupid things.

It has taken me years to get over it however if I had my legs crushed I would be in a wheelchair... FOREVER! That is considerably more damaging both physically and mentally. The depression felt by disabled people who can't do things for themselves is often quite high, especially if they used to be quite active people.

Rape doesn't impact your life unless you're mentally to weak to deal with the trauma in which case something else would have came along and broken your fagile little mind eventually anyway. It's horrible yes, but it doesn't ruin your life. If anything I feel it improved my life, it made me feel weak and in that I strived to become stronger, to better myself. I forced myself to fight back so I would never feel that weak again.

I'm almost 6 foot 6. I weigh 16 stone (224lbs). I know how to fight with 4 different kinds of close combat weapons and I have studied a martial art. I am not a weak person physically. Overpowering me is damn near impossible now.

Maybe this explains my stance on rape a little more now. If anyone has any questions I will attempt to answer them but if I ask people to drop it please do as it's still something I feel a little strange discussing.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5731 - 03/15/08 04:57 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Rape doesn't impact your life unless you're mentally to weak to deal with the trauma in which case something else would have came along and broken your fagile little mind eventually anyway.


When kids are subjected to neglect, abuse or sexual abuse the stress can actually damage there brains. Not all get affected but most do if the stress is severe. This is real physical damage and it can be very handicapping. Abuse is also more or less "hereditary". Grown ups who got abused or neglected as kids has a very big chance of abusing or neglecting there own kids, and many pedophiles where abused themselves as kids. This shows that even if people "get over it" and stop feeling like victims they are often unable to deal with other people in an healthy way. Being afraid or feeling weak is bad, but being unable to love, have a healthy relationship and bring up your own kids in a loving way most be even worse.

I am happy to hear that you came out of the experience without having your healthy animal nature corrupted.

- Amina

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#5738 - 03/15/08 07:36 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: DaVinci]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
So if someone was promiscuous, into home made porn and dressed in revealing clothing turned you down, you would have the right to rape them?

There must be alot of men out there who are now nervous. LOL.

Rape is not just an act of sex, more often than not it is an act of control or aggression. I mean really, how sad would an individual have to be to have the town bike turn him down, only to feel the need to force himself on her?

To take this further, that would mean that prostitues and strippers and porn stars would be deserving of rape?

Or actresses or anyone who has put their sexuality out in the public domain.

You don't have to feel sorry for this ex-fuck buddy, but you should also refrain from using a term to describe them that implys you were any sort of friend or buddy, as you were obviously just using her, like you said.

Maybe you should just say, some chick you used to take advantage of got raped and you don't feel sorry for her. Although that would be self evident as if you had any compassion or friendship towards her, you wouldn't have been taking advantage in the first place.
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#5739 - 03/15/08 07:49 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Hey TC,

First let me say that I think it is very strong of you to discuss such an obviously painful experience in an open forum such as this.

It intereseting that you use the examples that you do. I have a friend that was raped as a young boy. Because he fought back, he was actually ties up, beaten and raped by his uncle for seveal years before he was old enough to make it stop.

He like you, repressed it and made himself big and strong so that no one could ever do that to him again.

Anyway, now as a man in his late 40's, he had the memories of it all come back to him and has had to start dealing with it all over again. He and I have talked about it on nemerous occasions now and he is starting to beleive that it has actually had a life long detrimental effect on him, even though for most of his life he hasn't even had it in his mind as a consious thought.

Recently the man had a terrible accident and has been made a quadreplegic. Now this was an accident and not the result of GBH, so I guess it's a little different, but I do know that he thinks that the two things are ezueally as fucked up. They are both crippling in their own way. Rape can be just as emotionally crippling to some as what a physical injury can be to others.

Good luck with this horrible event never effecting you again, I hope for you sake that you are right. :-)

Zeph


Edited by ZephyrGirl (03/15/08 07:54 PM)
Edit Reason: claryfication
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#5745 - 03/15/08 09:36 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Maybe it is different for different people, but I see any trauma that you are physically incapable of recovering from, ie. something that will have a perminant lasting effect, say crippling or blinding for example, as being so much worse. I feel I've recovered for what happened to me and in some respects I'm glad it happened because it made me who I am today. As horrible as it was I would never have pushed myself as far, or fought back as hard if it hadn't happened. Every event shapes you and I try to reflect on that as something that I have gained from, but maybe that's just my way of coping.

I agree with Anima that young children are different though. I was lucky. I was a very intelligent and mature child, but many are not. A childs brain is easily molded and should always be considered on an individual case I feel.

Looking back I did become an extremely violent teen and my personality did change quite radically at about that time. I like to think however that it was merely a factor and not an outright cause of my changes, I was after all growing up.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5776 - 03/16/08 02:13 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
TheMask Offline
member


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
TC, I tend to be open about touchy subjects like that as well.
I wouldnt call it attention-seeking. I would rather call it being able to accept that which happened to you and not being ashamed of it. But i understand where youre coming from now.

And there is some truth in that bad things that happen to you have something good to them, something that you can learn from. This doesnt mean that you have to be happy about every trauma that comes your way, but think of it as something to learn from and survive.

But of course, it depends from case to case. Like Amina said it can have a much greater negative effect on your entire life rather then just learning from the trauma and getting stronger. Some people never learn from it.


Anyway. Thanks for sharing such a personal story just to make something clearer for me.

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#5780 - 03/16/08 03:13 PM Re: Jail Allows Inmates to pracitce Satanism [Re: TheMask]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Don't worry about it. It's about time I discussed it openly anyway.

With a subject like this the details will always be subjective because morality is subjective. People have different thoughts and feelings about different things. It's about reaching a sensible stance that most of society can agree on.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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