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#42829 - 09/06/10 01:02 PM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Autodidact]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Incorrect - personal responsibility cuts both ways. That is to say, people are responsible for their own actions, and "Islam" isn't a person. Some people are peaceful and have Islam as their faith, and some people use Islam as a tool to manipulate others.


No, not incorrect. If you align yourself with the KKK, you support their actions. If you align yourself with NAMBLA you support their actions. If you align yourself with Islam you support all that is done it its name. You have to, that is what your holy book tells you.

 Quote:
So we are left with two choices. Either:

A) Steven Emerson, who investigates Hamas for a living, and the federal authorities who convicted the fund management, are incompetent, and Oxus and 6Satan6Archist6 are in possession of evidence that links the guys in the article to Hamas; or

B) Our two compatriots have been manipulated by people using Islam as a tool to leverage their emotions.



I never said anything about Steve Emerson and being linked to Hamas. So to attribute that opinion to me is disingenuous. As is following one of my quotes, taken out of context, with a quote from a different poster.

And there is never only two options.

Perhaps I simply have an issue with Islam as whole that sprang forth from my own reading of Quran.

Maybe the fact that they openly talk about wanting to kill Americans simply for being Americans pisses me off because, as an American, I take that as a personal threat to my well-being.

Maybe I am tired of seeing the American government and its people lie down like cowardly dogs anytime Islam raises the rolled newspaper.

Maybe I am sick of people like you who think you know the motivations behind my beliefs; you don't.

When Muslims start clamoring for Sharia Law on US soil, will you tell those who are against it that they are simply being manipulated for other people?

Maybe lay off the booze before posting and you will see that I am not so easy to pin down.
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#42830 - 09/06/10 01:10 PM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Jake999]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
As far as I have heard the US is still democratic and thus the choice of the majority is still the deciding one.
This leads to the one conclusion: adapt or shut up.


And THIS, Dimitri is the reason for our Constitutional right of Freedom of Speech. It's there to protect the minority and allow them the right to dissent, even in the face of unrelenting odds against them. You don't HAVE to adapt and shut up. Moreover, the correct ideal would be assimilate and speak your piece, so long as you also extend that same right to others, even if you disagree.

The Klan is hardly in the majority, but we listen to what they have to say. We then have the choice of accepting it or rejecting it.

The Communist Party is hardly in the majority, but we listen to what they have to say. We then have the choice of accepting it or rejecting it.

NAMBLA is hardly in the majority, but we listen to what they have to say. We then have the choice of accepting it or rejecting it.

And even when people or concepts are in the majority, but number or ideological acceptance by a preponderance of agreement... we still have the right to dissent. We don't have to agree with them any more than they have to agree with us.


And this is one of the exact reasons I made the decision that my resorces could be better used else where when it came to this Islamic Center. I don't have to like it and can voice that opinion, but I don't have the right to interfer with them building it, which is their Constitutional right, too.

Until there is obtainable proof that this group is linked to a terrorist group, all the hullabaloo is just that, hullabaloo. Speculation without proof is still specualtion and gossip doesn't mean it's accurate either.

We, meaning our country, need to keep a close watch on the place but until then......"Show me the money!"
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#42831 - 09/06/10 01:16 PM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Syn_Holliday]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Same-sex marriage supporters were receiving death threats. Miss California, in reaction to her comment disagreeing with same-sex marriage, caused her death threats. Those who were trying to take the cross off the seal of California were receiving death threats. Nearly all celebrities receive death threats. If you believe them all terrorists, then this country is filled with terrorists from pretty much all controversial viewpoints. You're always going to have the emotional idiots who react as such.


The problem is that Muslims, to be sure, are making more death threats than any of those people and are certainly acting on more of them. And all one has to do is depict their pedophile prophet in any way. There is big difference between those who talk, and those who do. The ones who talk don't bother me. It is those who do that I am concerned with.

 Quote:
Actually I don't know. That's according to U.S. intelligence data from their monitoring of terrorist recruitment efforts. Also, interviews of captured jihadists reveal that homeland invasion is what ultimately drove them to join the fight. Nothing surprising.


Do you have a link to the data?

 Quote:
You just can't get many average people to blow themselves up just because they hate someone else's religion.


Unless their religion teaches them that suicide is sure-fire way to paradise. Then it seems really alluring. Especially to impressionable kids who taught all about this kind of stuff in school.

 Quote:
It's protecting their homeland that motivates them, much as the Kamikaze's motivation.


And how can anything they are doing outside of their own country be considered "protecting their homeland"? I fail to see how the blowing up of the WTC or subway lines or any of that is protecting their homeland. Or were the people who worked in the twin towers a threat to the homeland of Muslims? ;\)
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No gods. No masters.

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#42838 - 09/06/10 03:28 PM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Jake999]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
Using quick reply

 Quote:
But you seem to be standing behind a concept where majority (Christianity) rules. You wouldn't happen to be a Christian, are you?

Blatant stupidity, if I were a Christian then what would I do here for such a long time?

 Quote:
There has never been an absolute democracy here. Fortunately, freedom is protected under the Constitution. Study up on your history again.

But you have the idea of living in a democracy, live up to your standards! On the other hand, the constitution is in great need of a reviewed addendum. The constitution on its own is becomming outdated and incomplete for modern standards and society. (And now I am quite sure ignorant comments will come my way for even daring to attack a symbolic paper of freedom. Lest us forget it is but a fucking piece of paper and burns as good as another paper on my bbq).

 Quote:
If what you prefer were right and it were truly an absolute democracy, with a majority being Christian things would be much different than they are now. In fact, Christian organizations are on a constant rally to push the very same concept you seem to support ("there's more of us so why is our government protecting the rights of the minority religions"). They would hold you as their hero if you were put in charge!
I was speaking from cultural perspective, not totalitarian religious one. You make the assumption religion and politics go hand in hand and that it is a view I carry. WRONG! I am a firm believer religion should be regulated strictly and that it ranks as "leisure", lower, then politics. Christianity should be tolerated since it is a part of the cultural history of the country. Islam is not and should therfor be kicked out. (Note: Atheism is not a religion or a philosophy, but a simple position towards god. Satanism and maybe other philosophies were founded in the US and can be considered to be part of its cultural history.)

You see the concept of "power to the masses" way too narrow and in black and white. There is more into it, especially when it comes to this topic. Religion is but a belief, it is something personal. A great amount of people can stand up and protest to get their religion officialized. But so what? What you do and stand for is more important, and what harm does it bring if they keep their bullshit to themselves? Perhaps there are people who will try to convert, but you'll always have the choice to shoot their fucking brains out, with or without the constitution.

You are starting to annoy me with your obvious stupidity Tinky Winky.

@Jake
 Quote:
And THIS, Dimitri is the reason for our Constitutional right of Freedom of Speech. It's there to protect the minority and allow them the right to dissent, even in the face of unrelenting odds against them. You don't HAVE to adapt and shut up. Moreover, the correct ideal would be assimilate and speak your piece, so long as you also extend that same right to others, even if you disagree.

As mentioned to Tinky Winky, the constitution is BUT a piece of paper. Agreed it is a paper with much emotional value, it isn't the end line and a person still has the right to ignore and pick out stuff he/she likes. Someone living by the constitution will agree with it for the full 100%, but this topic is the perfect example that even those people who believe in it will change minds when the situation demands it. The constitution is a bit overrated. It simply contains pieces of text a citizen of the US should put up with, in both bad and good situations. Nothing more and equal to an official paper a person may not cross the road when the traffic lights are red.

But once again, you are right I don't have to put up with it or I don't have to adapt and shut up. But it always boils down to personal choice with a good mixing of responsability. But then again, my views are very complex and I seemingly have forgotten to mention I divide culture into different branches (political, religious,art,..) and the underlying numbers of importance I think they should have and how they should behave.

Referring to the constitution isn't even needed to legalize or give reasons why the mosque can be built. If the US-citizen can't put up with it then they should simply raise their voice and ignore the little paper. It's their freedom to ignore it and burn the fucking thing down anyway. And that's something which is also backed up by the constitution.


Edited by Dimitri (09/06/10 03:53 PM)
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#42839 - 09/06/10 03:49 PM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think that the idea of protecting their homeland is only valid when you exclude the majority of other terrorist attacks.

Attacks done in India, Turkey, North-Africa and Russia can hardly be called being motivated by homeland intrusion.

Islamic Terrorism Timeline

 Quote:
I am often asked to guess as to how many Muslims are Jihadists. The easiest answer is: enough to commit the terrorist acts detailed in this 1,000-page-long Islamic Terror Timeline.


A biased website maybe but the data speaks for itself.

D.

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#42862 - 09/07/10 07:45 AM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Diavolo]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
I find it interesting that all this discussion came about because of an Islamic Center that someone wants to build near Ground Zero. Yet the mere mention of a Quaran burning on 9/11 in the US has stirred the pot this much... http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100907/D9I31BF80.html

And they want us to be tolerant, yet before the book burning even takes place they start this? Really???
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#42863 - 09/07/10 08:12 AM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Nyte]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
I'm finding myself becoming more and more prejudice against not really Muslims but religion in general. This whole Islamic thing is kind of ridiculous.
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#42867 - 09/07/10 02:21 PM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Lamar]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Lamar
I'm finding myself becoming more and more prejudice against not really Muslims but religion in general. This whole Islamic thing is kind of ridiculous.


This thread itself exemplifies the biggest danger (IMHO) with religion (meaning any religion, not simply organized religion), which is that it purposefully deemphasizes critical thinking in favor of "Yer either with us or agin us."

Now that you've recognized this reality-tunnel, be careful not to simply label "all religious people are wackos", because that's falling back into the same mode - you'd be doing the same thing as they are, just with different labels. Just study the behavior, and learn how it works.
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An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

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#42873 - 09/07/10 07:52 PM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Autodidact]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
General response:

This has become (not surprisingly) little more than a shout point for the crazies in this country. I am well aware of the Islamification of Europe. I know that in the Muslim-run ghettos Sharia law is being enforced among themselves, flying in the face of local laws. I dislike everything about this oppressive and backwards tribal religion. But I have to draw a personal line. By not standing on the same side as the fools who are so blinded by the shallow patriotism they feel for their country, those who are utterly convinced that there is truth in the bullshit sold to them each night as they surf their conspiracy forums, listen to local am radio stations, attend rallies, and tune into to Fox News.

Did you know that here in good ol' Florida, a small church is hosting a "Burn The Koran Day" on 9/11? Guess what else occurs on that day? Eid el Fitr. Awesome job, guys. /facepalm

I mean, it's like being in a hot tub with the people in the pics at peopleofwalmart.com. Gross. I may need to scrub my body with salt and rubbing alcohol to cleanse myself of the stupid.

I'm just disgusted with it all. The mosque supporters AND detractors can all jump into the shark-infested waters off of South Africa and try to make it back to shore. Careful folks, them suckers jump outta da water for der food out 'dere.

Oops! Missed ya! C'mere ya little bastard!
[

Mmmmmph! Gotcha now!
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#42877 - 09/08/10 08:42 AM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Nemesis]
Asmodeus Xaxam Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Somerville TX. USA
HA! I love it.
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#42881 - 09/08/10 10:44 AM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Asmodeus Xaxam]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Thank you Xaxam. But I have to remind you not to post one-liners (even if they're in agreement with a post or congratulatory). ;\)

It may be a bit harsh, but discouraging one-liners saves space on the forum and makes it less of a chore to read through a thread.

Cheers,
Nemesis
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Nothing is sacred.

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#42885 - 09/08/10 11:29 AM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Nemesis]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I personally love this whole shit. This might be the polarization the West needs to wake up from its self-destructive state. That the West is waking up shows in all those countries having great difficulties forming a government; a direct result of polarization. The golden years are gone and we wake up to the consequences of being the Good Samaritan. People finally realize that life, for most, is nothing but being up to your neck in credit and nothing but gloom in the future. For the first time since years buying a house is a bad investment again and renting is way more sensible. That's a perfect indication shit hit the fan. It makes people uncomfortable and uncomfortable people are the perfect soil.

To make a nation advance, it needs an enemy. Muslims fill that role perfectly. With some luck, they can become to us what the Jews were to the Nazis. And on that fear and disgust, we might, one day, be able to sway the mass into severely change the system. The role of the West is to be dominant; all we need to do is fulfill that role again and get rid of that ridiculous guilt we enforced on ourselves.

Let the memes roll.

D.

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#42889 - 09/08/10 03:22 PM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Diavolo]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
With some luck, they can become to us what the Jews were to the Nazis.


The Germans evidently have plenty to say about the muslims as well. Thilo Sarrazin, at this particular time, is in a little hot water over his opinion (in book form) of transitory migrants (muslims) and their detrimental effects on Germany proper.

One of the beautiful facets of this story is that he can't readily be fired for his comments. The ruling class in Germany (of which he is a member) is furious with him, but the German people are in love with him at the moment and his book is selling like apfelpfannkuchen.
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#42890 - 09/08/10 04:02 PM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Fnord]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
In Europe free speech is a thing of the past. The controversy about his book or remarks is a fine example of it.

Mind you, I've got nothing against Muslims, besides maybe finding it a pretty retarded religion and even race isn't important to me. I'm a cultural supremacist and believe life, and everything regarding it, is competition. We need conflict to advance. If there hadn't been a Cold War, the advancement of the USA and USSR probably wouldn't have been what it was now. If one doesn't dominate, in time, one becomes dominated.

As such, we need a new enemy to wake up out of this stagnant good-guy phase we're in.

D.

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#42892 - 09/08/10 04:19 PM Re: That friggin' Mosque! [Re: Diavolo]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Couldn't agree more, Sir, well said.

I remember typing something to that effect in a thread around here about world peace. I think conflict and war are a natural state for mankind to be in. This current trend of political correctness is something I find sickening though, like you, I harbor no ill will towards muslims or any specific group unless they happen to be in my grill. What makes me sick about the whole mosque thing is the overt sentiment of accommodation without reciprocation. If we have to concede something, they have to concede something. A synagogue in mecca would do for starters (though I'd have no personal stake in that) \:\)
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