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#4314 - 02/18/08 11:25 AM Satanist and existance
shdwhnter Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Asheville area Western North C...
Thank you for your more specific reply in the new members area BirdStrike. I can see your point that good and bad is subjective to each individual. On the other hand, I agree with authors such as Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens who purpose that some moral value may be derived from our distant past where social dynamics were conducive to survival. So, moral values are now intrinsic to being human and to be human is awesome. How I chose to celebrate that human experience is through my religion not because Iím beholden to any particular aspect of a divine source. Of course, these authors would disagree with me having a religion at all and find it completely counter productive. To these authors believing matter and energy always existed is how they come to terms with existence at large but this ideology doesnít satisfy my mind. Do most Satanist believe that matter and energy always existed?
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#4315 - 02/18/08 12:56 PM Re: Satanist and existance [Re: shdwhnter]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I know I do. There is reasonable evidence to say that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed meaning it must have always existed assuming that time has always existed... but now we're talking about a concept which cannot be expressed within our language, after all time has always existed, there is no "before time existed" however there could be "outside of time" in which case, who knows...

I think really the answer is I don't know. The science points to yes from what I can see but honestly I don't think it really matters if matter or energy existed before I did, it has little to no effect on my life.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4371 - 02/20/08 12:38 PM Re: Satanist and existance [Re: TornadoCreator]
birdstrike Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
I'm afraid I must side once again against religion. Ask yourself this: Am I really celebrating life through my religion, or is my religion creating a convenient reality package for me so I don't have to look for myself?

Having religion is counter productive in this regard (Satanism too). What must be understood is that no human being on this planet knows really anything but what they in turn have been taught. It is when we begin to truly cast off meaningless labels and empty ritual that we can really begin to own our surroundings and understand their makeup. Understand that any religion regardless of its merits pales in comparison to the power possessed within the individual. In the Tao Te Ching there is a very profound statement that opens the text: "The way that can be told is not the true way."

Matter and energy are infinite, yet so is this moment. We cling to the idea of time as a constant. Dissect your belief on matter and energy. Read any scientific or religious text and realize how many assumptions are made. The only thing you know for sure is what is recognized through your senses. After that all is speculation. Wasting your time stroking the ego's of insignificant people in your existence is a waste of your time and a detriment to your own evolution.

If you are a reader I would recommend a couple books you might find very profound.

1. Liber Chaos -Peter J Carroll
2. Thus Spake Zarathustra - Nietsche
3. The Psychopath's Bible - Christopher Hyatt

Notice the Satanic Bible isn't here? It's because the reading of these three books will provide you with a little more no-nonsense approach without the nifty "abrahamic" imagery, call to join the Church of Satan, or horrible mistranslations of stupidity that nobody should care about. These books helped me greatly in many ways begin to understand my own place in the universe I created.


Edited by birdstrike (02/20/08 12:41 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling error
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Isn't being a Satanist against the ideas of Satanism?

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#4376 - 02/20/08 02:22 PM Re: Satanist and existance [Re: birdstrike]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
You make some interesting points however I can't help but wonder why you dislike Satanism, I follow LeVayen Satanism to a set degree because I personally agree with the ideals put in place and I feel following the guidelines put in place by it will help me in life. This is the only reason I follow what I do. I don't care about being trendy or irritating Christians as so many do, I do it because I think it's best for me. So could you explain your dislikes more specifically
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4423 - 02/21/08 12:02 PM Re: Satanist and existance [Re: TornadoCreator]
birdstrike Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
Please understand that it isn't a dislike. If it was I wouldn't be here. When I first read the Satanic Bible I had been involved in magic and the ideas for some time. I did not call myself a Satanist at this time. I found the ideas wonderful, even to the point of checking the cover to make sure I had not, in fact written the text. It was at this point I began to wear the title of "Satanist". It was at this time I found this site (the old one) as well.

It was actually members of this site who put me in touch with such authors as Jung, Nietsche, Rand, and a host of others. Ironically I found myself greatly disappointed at the lack of originality I found in LaVey's concepts. Be aware as well that this of course was a blow to my own ideas of self originality. After some years I read the text again. This time I applied some of LaVey's concepts of bunko to his own writings. It is in this you begin to see a running joke throughout the book. A joke that the starry eyed reader is the butt of. I actually consider this discovery to be the greatest revelation in my life. The realization that maybe I wasn't so original, deep, spiritual, and of course intelligent as I thought I was.

The book is a good beginning. Like all other concepts however this must be built upon. The problem I find is how reluctant the seemingly average Satanist is to do so. LaVey provides a well written, very readable idea. It is his, and I have found it more important to build my own. An idea which doesn't require a "bad guy badge" to be viable. And lets face it many people are Satanists simply to be rebellious, or because it makes them feel like "individuals". This is where LaVey made his fortune.

You said it yourself

 Quote:
I follow LeVayen Satanism to a set degree because I personally agree with the ideals put in place and I feel following the guidelines put in place by it will help me in life.


Satanism according to LaVey isn't about guidelines, and following ideals. This is where we are all the butt of the joke. Satanism isn't supposed to be about following but leading. You can't do that until it is your own ideas you follow! As long as one looks to his Satanic Bible for the answer one is not being a Satanist by LaVey's own ideas. I'm going to steal Morgan's words here: A black sheep is still a sheep!

So please understand that I do not dislike Satanism, or the Satanic Bible. I however take different things from it than most. I am a Satanist no longer! I found that as long as I wore titles I felt inclined to slavery under them. This is a natural part of human nature. We are communal animals!
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Isn't being a Satanist against the ideas of Satanism?

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#4440 - 02/21/08 11:33 PM Re: Satanist and existance [Re: birdstrike]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I understand your point and it's very well made but I feel no need to build on the ideas of others yet. I have problems in my life, arbitrary things like finding a job, getting into better health, finding a stable relationship etc. that going "soul-searching" as many religions put it is outside of my reach.

I have found things that I agree with and I'm happy to follow them. Attempting to change them to fit better would probably make me happier but this is not the time nor the place for me. In time I may join you in the ranks of people who have gone further than Satanism or I may not and find that I can't find any personal improvements on LaVey's ideas.

It's not being a black sheep to conform to Satanism, it's being a black sheep to never challenge it. I challenge things, albeit on a small scale every day, and will more in the future. However if I arrive at the same conclusions as Satanism has been founded on that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
I would say rather than a Black Sheep it makes me some form of Highland Goat, I'm not a sheep but I do the same as the sheep and provide the same as the sheep... unless the farmer comes out, then I eat his fat-cap and ram into his legs when he turns around.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4509 - 02/24/08 06:45 PM Re: Satanist and existance [Re: TornadoCreator]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
I have problems in my life, arbitrary things like finding a job, getting into better health, finding a stable relationship etc. that going "soul-searching" as many religions put it is outside of my reach.


That's a wee bit spooky. I think I may be in the same boat as yourself (apart from the possible homelessness. At lest I think that's what you wrote in one thread a while back...)

Hope things better for you soon. Although the only advice I could give you (assuming you welcome advice) is not to rush things. When the time is right, lunge for what you crave.

You can ignore the advice if you wish...
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"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#4536 - 02/25/08 04:18 PM Re: Satanist and existance [Re: DistroyA]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Yeah, there's no need to rush, but I do need to sort stuff out in my life at some point.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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