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#43189 - 09/25/10 12:19 PM Primal eating
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I debated posting about this here, but I thought that some members might take an interest in eating to gain strength and better health.

I've never followed a diet before, because nearly all of them are short-term, lose-weight-then-start-eating-like-crap-again. Even Weight Watchers is stupid, because it allows for binge days which take you a week to recover from, prolonging the weight loss. Since February, I've dropped 10lbs, and wanted to start eating more nutritious foods to maintain my current weight. Googling "nutrient dense" foods led me to researching "primal eating"--eating the kinds of foods humans ate in the Paleolithic era. That meant: no grains (or very limited amounts), no dairy (Cro Magnon hadn't invented animal husbandry), no beans or legumes, and no sugar or other processed foods. Occasional honey as a sweetener (because you would've been able to get it from a honeycomb) and wine (natural fermentation).

Basically, if it had to be cooked in order to be rendered edible, it was off the list. Corn is toxic, and potatoes, tomatoes & peppers are considered "nightshades" because they only grew on the American continents, not the European/African/Asian ones.

Fatty cuts of meat, veggies, nuts, certain seeds & fruits are all good.

I started eating Paleo around 3 weeks ago, and have lost an additional 5lbs, bringing my total weight down to 120. Those 5lbs I lost were unintended, but within the first few days I was already feeling better, more clear-headed and had lots of energy. I can go longer on less food, providing what I eat is nutrient-dense & filling. Now, I actually have a difficult time eating more than 1500 calories a day, but I eat until I'm full. And because I've cut out grains, I no longer have post-nasal drip (which would cause me to clear my throat constantly, which was pretty irritating) and bloating.

I think most people have grain allergies, they just don't realize it. This isn't Atkins or South Beach, where you have to severely restrict carbs and force your body into ketosis in order to lose weight (although that can be done if you need to drop some pounds or are into mass-building). Calories don't count either. It's more about a balance of percentages than how much you eat. Eating good saturated fats (from meat and nuts, not from veg oils and Twinkies), a healthy amount of carbs (100g+/day) and good sources of protein keep your metabolism up. Some Paleo eaters are hardcore and only do raw food, no sugar whatsoever, and intermittent fasting. Others have a difficult time cutting out dairy (adding cream to their milk, cheese, etc).

I've become a little more proficient in the kitchen since I've started cooking Paleo meals, and I think I save money by eating last night's leftovers for lunch the following day. I made tilapia one night, and it tasted so good I scarfed it down looking for more (I'm not a huge seafood eater). I really do not crave bread at all, and the last time I ate a ciabatta roll I felt incredibly bloated and yucky. I don't want to feel like that again, which is motivation enough to stay away from that shit.

I've been surprised by the number of recipes that are Paleo. Cooking eggs in bacon rings? Big beef stews with root veggies, onions, homemade stock and seasonings? Delicious. Bacon & watercress soup? Mmmmmm.
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#43226 - 09/26/10 08:32 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Nicholas DePrey Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Sweden
Im doing Paleo, and I love it! Im under 110kg's (242lbs) for the first time in 4 years. I have lost about 22lbs in 3 months \:\)

Edited by Nicholas DePrey (09/26/10 08:32 PM)
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#43233 - 09/26/10 11:47 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
XBlackXScorpionX Offline
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Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 24
Loc: Arizona
This thread prompted me to do a little research of my own. Now my fridge is full of healthy food and I spent less than I usually do. If I can eat healthy, be satisfied, and save money I'll consider it a win.
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#43237 - 09/27/10 07:33 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: XBlackXScorpionX]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Nicholas--that is fantastic!

Scorp--Trust me, it's hard to feel deprived on this diet when you can stuff your face. Get creative! If you feel a craving for pancakes or muffins, you can sub out the flour with a nut flour like almond or pecan (which you can make at home quite easily--the flour is just finely ground up nuts which is then sifted). Generally, the fattier cuts of meat are better because the high fat content is more filling and makes digestion much easier. When you cook chicken, leave the skin on so the fat gets into the meat. Buy heavily marbled steaks. Use tallow/ghee/bacon grease for frying instead of butter or olive oil.

I've been spending less $$$ as well (although it doesn't seem like it), because now I plan my meals for the week and buy my groceries all at once, instead of going to the store every night and buying crap that I shouldn't be eating.
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#43238 - 09/27/10 09:20 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Fnord Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
This actually came along at just the right time for me, thanks for posting it Nemesis.

Since I've been posting on this site I've lost about 35 pounds on Weight Watchers but am stagnating.

My wife has lost a significant amount more than I have by following something close to what you've illustrated here. It's really a different kind of weight loss. My daughter is 14 and athletic and I can't tell my wife's clothes from my daughter's clothes any more (I do the laundry).

Count me in. I'll post progress updates as I go along and anything else I learn along the way.
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#43239 - 09/27/10 10:02 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Fnord]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Good luck on your venture, Fnord!

I think Weight Watchers fails a lot of people because it's all about counting calories. If you eat right, calories don't matter one bit. Some Paleo eaters can do 2K-3K calories a day, but because they eat the right foods it actually contributes to their weight loss.

I'm on CavemanForums and have been doing a lot of reading about the diet. The forum is great because you're encouraged to post a food journal so the other members can give you advice. And you can read through other members' journals to get an idea of what options are available. There are quite a lot of Paleo recipes available for free on the web, plus you can try converting regular recipes to Paleo by subbing certain ingredients.
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#43261 - 09/28/10 04:40 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I just ate my neighbor's cat, right after I clubbed him to death, and dragged off his women...

I am so satisfied right now... mmmm!

You know I'm "mostly" joking Nemesis... but you gotta warn these people too! Sounds a little like Atkins...

You can lose the weight on these diets, but... they must've dug up some roots at least, somewhere? I know that's carbs... some variety of lettuces, cabbages?

Meat should be cooked if you get it from the store... at least... so unless your gnawing on rabbits, or hunting deer for your tribe... there's going to be a fire burning.

People who aren't tiny, you'll lose weight, and this may be the great new thing. Just like Native American, or the Original diet of the Aztecs... lots of stuff out there to go back to some original "roots" of dietary consumption.

All of them might be good, or any one of them... but if you have high triglycerides, high LDL, or cholesterol levels... you might want to consult your doctor before you do this sort of thing, especially if you're taking medication.

I'm sounding like an asshole here.

I'm not trying to be negative, just trying to avoid some cardiac arrests!

And remember, they were hunting for the food, and they didn't always succeed. Try running all day, jumping, falling, and shanking a Moose with a spear or a knife that you made... and the Moose is still alive, and pissed. Then you'll really be thin! And you'd be happy to live until your 40.

High density (vitamins, lean protein) foods, workout until you want to puke...

You'll take off the pounds in 3 weeks...

But it won't feel as good as eating bacon, EVER.

Sorry,

Daeve.
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#43262 - 09/28/10 07:44 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: daevid777]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
LOL! All good points you've made, Daeve \:\)

But, it's been shown that by following a low-carb Paleo diet, has improved all of those things you mentioned: high triglycerides, LDL & cholesterol. Many Paleo eaters get their blood tested frequently and have come back with perfectly normal results. Every now and then you'll have someone with out of whack ratios, but that usually means they're cheating with stuff like dairy or tequila ;\)

As an example,
Blood Lipid Improvement
Can triglycerides be too low?
Cholesterol results after 6 weeks of Paleo<<this guy hadn't managed to cut out drinking alcohol

And seeing how grains and sugary fruits cause insulin spikes, eating this way has also been shown to improve the symptoms of Type 1 & 2 diabetes--
Paleo vs. Type 1 Diabetes
Paleo diet & diabetes: Improved Cardiovascular Risk Factors

And the reason why I mentioned Atkins was to highlight the difference between that diet and Paleo--mainly carb & calorie restriction. With Paleo, you want to get plenty of good carbs from roots like you said: cabbage, carrots, turnips, rutabagas, leafy greens, broccoli, etc as well as some berries and nuts. With Atkins, you're limited to 20g of carbs a day. A body cannot function well on only 20g a day. It makes you cranky, you get muscle spasms, and you're tired. Which is why Atkins is only a short-term diet plan, and Paleo is sustainable.

Granted, some Paleo eaters are on the 90% meat spectrum, and others are closer to fruitarians. Neither of these extremes is really Paleo, as our ancestors probably ate 60% carbs and the rest consisted of whatever meat they managed to kill/store for later. There's always a trial period where one figures out what ratios work best for them.

And you can eat all the (uncured) bacon you want! \:\)
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#43265 - 09/28/10 10:39 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Nicholas DePrey Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Sweden
Do you guys have any recipes to share? I'm running out of ideas lol
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#43267 - 09/28/10 12:26 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Sift through the ones posted here , here , here , and at the bottom of the page here .

Those should be enough to keep your tastebuds occupied for a while!
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#43307 - 09/29/10 04:53 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
You, my dear Nemesis, are AWESOME.

I'll check out the data, definitely.

Atkins has also had some similar effect, though. Even some doc's I worked with ate that way... Even down to some kind of weird cereal thing... they did lose weight... but they gained it back.

Move your body! Shake that thang! We mustn't forget exercise! That's the real deal, and that's why it sucks.

So when you lose those pounds, and want to keep them away... walk.... swim, have marathon sex (that's one of my favorites)... and DO get checked out, especially if you are on meds. If this diet reduces blood glucose, and you happen to be diabetic, you may find yourself in a bad situation...

Just adding concerns, I'll check out those links! Recipes indeed! I'd love to know more of this!

Daeve.

P.S. - Damn, the Tequila? That's what it is? \:\)
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#43309 - 09/29/10 07:33 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: daevid777]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Awww, thanks Daeve *blushes*. Also this is an interesting read--

Saturated fats + grains = myocardial infarction

And while this diet may reduce blood glucose in comparison to a typical Western diet, it regulates it more efficiently-- Paleo diet beats Mediterranean diet for controlling blood glucose

Exercise is a wonderful thing. I bought a pair of those Vibram fivefingers shoes (which I got via UPS yesterday but they were a hair too small so I sent them back for an exchange). Hopefully by wearing those shoes it will encourage me to get out more. Plus, the weather down here is sloooooowly starting to get cooler (still humid, a couple degrees cooler), which always makes me want to be outdoors.
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#43347 - 09/30/10 02:50 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Awww Shucks...

But interesting point on the Tequila factor... I know this isn't about counting calories, but there is truth in that. I'd like to demonstrate this with two links.

One is the calorie counter regarding alcohol, it's just a link, and has nothing to do with this site, but people can see where some of those hidden calories come from. Alcohol can add a helluva lot of useless calories (Unless the evening was fantastic!). So here it is:

http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/CollegeStudents/calculator/alcoholcalc.aspx

Also, just for "fun" check out how many calories it takes to maintain your weight. I just mention this in case you do drink, and you can see where the cutbacks can be made in that regard. I'm still going to check out Paleo, most definitely. I'm not hijacking this thing.

Check it out here, just for "fun" okay?

http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

If you are drinking, you can see, by simple math, how many calories are applied toward that "hobby".

Damn I love Tequila,

Daeve.
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#43444 - 10/04/10 08:12 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: daevid777]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I have a couple of Paleo recipes that you guys could try. Both were absolutely delicious and filling.

Dandelion Salad w/ Warm Bacon Dressing

Serves 4

1 lb tender dandelion leaves, bottom stems removed
5 bacon slices
1 1/2 Tbsp finely chopped shallot
1 Tbsp cider vinegar
1/4 tsp salt
dash of black pepper

Fry bacon, reserve grease, chop bacon into bits
Cut greens 1.5" long, transfer to a large bowl
Whisk together shallot, vinegar, salt & pepper with remaining bacon grease.
Toss with greens to coat, top with bacon.
Serve immediately

**dandelion greens are strong-tasting, but not as sharp as rocket/arugula or watercress

Spaghetti Squash Saute

Serves 4

1 spaghetti squash, cut in half lengthwise and seeded
1/4 cup butter/margarine
1 small onion, chopped into long pieces (not diced)
2 cloves garlic, finely chopped
salt & pepper to taste

Preheat oven to 350F/175C
Set squash cut-side down on a foil-lined baking pan. Cook for 35-40 minutes until tender but still firm, take out to cool
In a large saucepan, melt butter and saute onions & garlic until tender. Add squash, cook for another 5 minutes until squash is soft.

**I made both of these tonight, and used the big pan I'd fried the bacon in to cook the squash. There was a bit of bacon flavor added to the dish, which was delicious.
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#43513 - 10/08/10 08:01 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
My mom has been eating this way for years. She has had almost no health issues, and for a woman her age, that is pretty incredible.

One of the MMA trainers I follow has his fighters on this diet.

Think about it this way, your evolutionary biology is over 500,000 years old. Farming is less than 10,000 years old and sugar has only been in common use for about 200 years. The Standard American Diet (SAD) is less than 50 years old.

Diet and exercise will 'cure' nearly 90% of all illness.
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#43514 - 10/08/10 08:41 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Fist]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Absolutely, Fist. That is amazing to hear how well your mom is doing, eating Paleo! I'm not surprised at all to hear about MMA fighters on this diet.

What I think hampers a lot of people from eating this way is the brainwashing of "fat is bad for you" that's been going on for decades. Even doctors still recommend diets low in fat, lots of veggies/fruits (carbs), and low-fat dairy. And then they try to pin all of the heart disease in the West on eating meat. Bullshit, I say. Eating deep-fried pseudo meat is what lands people in the hospital. Even ones who try to "eat right" and exercise often find they face an uphill battle (weight loss stalls, health problems, mineral imbalances, etc). Now people are sloooooowly starting to realize that you need fats, one just has to be more selective of the sources they get it from. Commercial beef and poultry? Full of hormones, chemicals, and has way too much of the unhealthy saturated fats than wild-caught or naturally-raised livestock.

The vegetarian diet is what's really making people so damned unhealthy. This absurd notion that we're more closely related to the modern tree monkeys (whose diet consists almost entire of raw fruits and veggies) and to chimps, skewing their logic and promoting their guilt-ridden "Save the Animals--don't eat meat!" cult lifestyle. We branched off from the chimps a long time ago, carved out our own niche and developed our OWN dietary needs millions of years ago. All the wishful pipedreams in the world isn't going to take away the fact that people need meat, some more than others. Most certainly NONE of us need grain or dairy!

I don't think it's right to treat animals the way our food industries do. I'm 100% for grass-fed, natural, organic livestock raising. De-beaking hens, grinding up male chicks because they're useless, forcing animals to live and breed in tiny stalls, never to see the light of day--that shows disrespect of our fellow creatures, and allows for people to continue their callous and ignorant way of living. Appreciate your food and where it comes from. There are better ways to put that meat on your dinner plate, and it's taking root in small farms throughout the country.
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#43519 - 10/09/10 03:55 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Nemesis,

I love you to death!!!

I have to disagree to just some degree. And I'll say it in a nice way. Saturated fats and cholesterol CAN be bad for many, many people.

I would consider a diet rich in fruits at the very least, part of a Paleo diet... unless there were no fruit bearing trees at that time. I'm sure berries were around. And you've talked about nuts, which is good.

When I was working out.. with a trainer, I didn't eat any land animal meats... sometimes fish. Proteins can be found in nuts and grains... but this diet seems to be anti-grain.

I'm wondering, truly, where one can find a wild chicken or cow these days... and if I were to go up and hack them down (or chase them all over with the chickens!) how the public would view me.

I'm glad you included the food industries' tactics, but how does one really get away from that, unless you know a farmer? And we shouldn't drink the milk, but eat the animal that makes the milk?

You have said this is less expensive, but in my parts, I guess I'd have to make friends with someone who owns a cow. Then I should say... "Hey, you know your cow's looking pretty good... for eating... when are you going to kill her again?" And "You haven't been giving her any hormones or antibiotics, right?"

Maybe I should just run wild with only a loincloth and a spear through the desert... and stab some giant lizards and snakes. Wouldn't be the first time... eating them though...

I think I'd need some bread. And a beer to wash it down.

I'm somewhat kidding, I just don't get it. Maybe a list would be good...

What to eat, what not to eat. That would simplify things.

I'm still stuck on the workout 'til you wanna puke regimen... but that's not a popular idea. I don't like it either, but it's the only thing that has ever given me any results. "Eating" my way to slim just seems like... how can I explain? Impossible.

Love for you Nemesis, always,

Daeve.
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#43526 - 10/09/10 10:41 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: daevid777]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
The health problems with saturated fats tend to go hand-in-hand with eating grains. Take the Inuit, for example. These folks had adapted to an almost all-protein diet of seals, fish, and whale meat. When these people were introduced to the Western diet, the rates of heart disease and obesity skyrocketed. I'm not saying that their 80% meat diet was healthy (constipation was a common problem for them), but if they'd lived in a more fertile environment, to include vegetation would have greatly improved their overall health. Paleo tries to strike a balance between the extremes of the Inuit all-meat diet, and the other end of the vegetarian all-veg diet. Both meat and grains cause inflammation. When you have the two together in your system, it doubles the inflammation factor. That's why if one is going to eat meat, it's best to stay away from grains.

http://huntgatherlove.com/category/tags/indigenous

Berries are excellent sources of vitamins and fiber, and most definitely were a part of early man's diet. The fruit is called into question depending upon where your family's origins lie. Europeans didn't have much fruit during the Ice Age--it was too damned cold. But if you came from an African or Middle Eastern ancestry, having fruit included in your diet would be a given. That doesn't mean one should exclude fruit from their meals just because they're white--I sure as hell don't--but if someone wanted to go strict Paleo they would most likely take their specific ancestry into consideration.

With the cows and the milk they produce: humans aren't naturally lactose tolerant. Like most mammals, they were only able to tolerate milk up until a certain age. A small shift in our genes enabled us to be able to consume milk during the Neolithic, but that doesn't mean we should be drinking it. How many people have lactose intolerance? Not just the most noticeable symptoms, like severe diarrhea, but dairy can make a person gassy or upset their stomach with symptoms like heartburn or nausea, which are all mild symptoms easily overlooked. This site could probably explain it better than I could--

http://www.crossfitsocalforum.com/post?id=3651838

I know it'll mean having to go out of your way to find grass-fed meats. I'm not sure how close this place is to you--

http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/you_too_can_eat_healthy_beef.htm

But their prices seem decent and they have a large selection of meat. Grass-fed livestock is best because it ensures that you get a proper Omega-3/6 ratio. Most commercial meats on the shelves are grain-fed, which quadruples the Omega-6 content in the meat. That's not good for your heart. It's best to aim for a 1:1 ratio (which is why fish and Omega-3 rich eggs are great to help offset a high Omega-6 intake).

I still get the odd craving for bread too. When the urge strikes me, I'll make an almond flour pancake, mixed with an egg and coconut milk, and add some spices (like cinnamon and honey). It doesn't quite have the same texture as bread, but it doesn't leave me feeling bloated after eating it. I can top it with berries or fruit too. You can buy a bag of nuts (pecans, walnuts, almonds, etc) and use a coffee grinder to pulverize them into something you can bake with. It's probably a lot cheaper than buying the pre-made nut flours from organic stores! A bag of almond flour can cost up to $10...fuck that!

The important thing is that Paleo is not a starvation diet like Atkins. To lose weight, there's no reason you have to cut your carb intake to the extremes that Atkins calls for in order to see results. Yes you want to push your body into ketosis, but you should still allow yourself at least 50g of carbs a day. That's a large apple, 2 cups of carrots, several ounces of nuts, and a banana. Add your daily protein (eggs, beef, chicken, pork, etc) and that's a lot of food. Eating nothing but lean meats tells your body to hold on to fats. When you include healthy fats (from nuts & grass-fed meats) your body gets the OK to start burning fat.

Here's a list of the kinds of foods you should eat on Paleo--

http://www.paleodiet.com/definition.htm

Some so-called experts on Paleo disagree on certain points, so it's left up to you to determine what would work best for you. However, all of them advise to refrain from grains, beans/legumes, dairy & sugar.
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#43540 - 10/10/10 04:04 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I'll check the sites...

But can we agree that the "Paleo" person lived to about 35 years of age... for one reason or another....

I should be dead.

Inuits might have lived an extra ten years... to 45. (do you think they were actually studied before "Western" influence?)

Whale blubber and seals, watch the fuck out! I'm gonna live!

Truth is, I don't think anyone knows what's really good for us. Forcing a body into ketoacidosis, sure... you could also give yourself shots of insulin... BUT DON'T.

I hate modern "Medicine" and I've been in the field for a long time... but they have the sometimes good measurements... that's all... get checked out... see if this works... I've had patients with blood glucose levels over 300, when they get it down to "normal" levels... they don't feel right.

Also, we're going with the trend of thinking that "early man creatures" knew better... or had it better... in some ways... due to LIMITATIONS in the selection of food supplies. Now that we have a more global market, more exotic fruits and vegetables... this is a bad thing. This is only an attempt to make some new diet plausable...

get out your bow... start killing Elk, Moose... run and kill the birds you can... Forget the cows and chickens...

And if we are to agree with the postulations of Richard Dawkins... we are all from Africa... we should eat the wonderful delicacies the Sahara offers... or the Jungles?

Then you could live to the ripe old age of... 45?

But maybe you'd feel better in the process.

Lots of loopholes, lots of factors... I'm sure if I ate grains, fruits and vegetables only, and exercised regularly... I'd still live, and live strong. And in later years, I wouldn't be having strokes, blindness, renal failure, diabetes... we can never know.

damn tequila!!!

whole food grains, wild rice, basmati, jasmine rice, quinoa, rye, wheat, vegetables, fruits, nuts, peanuts, cashews, pine nuts... this combination is "bad" for me?

I can't agree...

My biology seems to accept this.
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#43543 - 10/10/10 11:17 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: daevid777]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Infections, broken bones, death in childbirth, animal attacks--who knows? I don't think diet was ever an issue with cavemen where their short lifespans were concerned. They had too much going on to have deep thoughts about cholesterol and phosphate/calcium ratios. Bear in mind that the great ages we reach today have only been achieved in the past century. Lifespans from 30,000 BC up until the 1800's stayed relatively the same--early to mid-30's.

Eating Paleo does not mean one should eschew what's been achieved in modern medicine. I don't think eating exotic fruits is bad at all. We've all been displaced from the origins of our ancestors, and many foods that have been discovered on different continents have proven to be very beneficial to one's health. I'm a pasty white girl of European stock, but that doesn't mean I should refrain from eating citrus, coconuts, squash and spinach. Like I said, it's all about how strict you want to be. Plenty of people include nightshades in their diets because they have no adverse reactions to them. But nightshades can cause inflammation and aggravate underlying health problems in a lot of people.

Legumes and most grains have insecticidal toxins that have have to be leeched out of the seeds in order for them to be rendered edible. Wheres as fruits and veggies, even meat (freshly killed) can be eaten raw. I'm not too keen on the texture of raw meat, and I sure as hell would not eat any meat raw that came from a grocery store. But if I killed a deer and gutted it right on the field, I'd consider that meat perfectly safe to take a bite out of.

Just don't discount the successes of people who have been on this diet for years, simply because what it espouses disregards a lot of special interest research. I've had positive results, Nicholas and Fist have both seen huge improvements with eating this way. Sustainable, healthy diets shouldn't be considered "fads".

I can't convince you to try this, you'll have to see for yourself how this fits on you. Everyone's different!

Btw, any luck on ideas for your veggie garden?
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#43551 - 10/11/10 12:48 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Autodidact Offline
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Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
Infections, broken bones, death in childbirth, animal attacks--who knows?


Oh, and they had to detach the meat from the animals themselves, and those animals were usually keen on keeping it. How many were killed on the hunt, either directly or due to accident; or starved because their clan didn't catch enough meat? Hardly anyone nowadays dies in the drive-thru lane.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
Eating Paleo does not mean one should eschew what's been achieved in modern medicine.


The flip side is true, too - I'm not ready to admit that modern medicine knows everything, or even most things, about how our bodies work.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
I don't think eating exotic fruits is bad at all. [snip] [...] but that doesn't mean I should refrain from eating citrus, coconuts, squash and spinach. Like I said, it's all about how strict you want to be.


This is true, although I will add, in case it's not obvious, that if you're doing so, understand what you're eating. My wife and I have started eating Paleo(-ish - thanks, Nemesis, you turned me on to it), and since she's so sensitive to carbs - it makes her moods and metabolism very erratic - we avoid the starchier veg and fruits. I'm sensitive to them, too - they just make me hungrier. The first week I started this, I was surprised how little I actually ate.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
Legumes and most grains have insecticidal toxins that have have to be leeched out of the seeds in order for them to be rendered edible.

I seem to recall that humans didn't evolve eating grains, and that grains weren't actually all that prevalent - that they're relatively recent ... can't find the reference right now ... hm, will look that up.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
Just don't discount the successes of people who have been on this diet for years, simply because what it espouses disregards a lot of special interest research.

I must be getting old - I'm getting kind of annoyed with how much "science" I'm finding to be crap. I mean, I know there's a lot of psuedo-science out there, but even a lot of the baseline stuff is BS. I've recently discovered that something as simple as running is done all wrong. Look up the Tarahumara, barefoot running, and why running heel to toe is wrong, and why running shoes are bad for you. (I'm happy to say I've had this one right from the beginning.)
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#43563 - 10/11/10 07:34 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Autodidact]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Quote:
Oh, and they had to detach the meat from the animals themselves, and those animals were usually keen on keeping it. How many were killed on the hunt, either directly or due to accident; or starved because their clan didn't catch enough meat? Hardly anyone nowadays dies in the drive-thru lane.

Exactly. Paleo diet detractors (or meat-eating detractors in general) like to point out the short life spans of our predecessors, but diet in and of itself had nothing to do with it. Life as it used to be was fucking dangerous, plain and simple.

 Quote:
The flip side is true, too - I'm not ready to admit that modern medicine knows everything, or even most things, about how our bodies work.

Yes, it's difficult to believe everything you hear/read when it comes to breakthroughs in medicine. It's like the ipod--you need to wait a few more years for the perfected model to be introduced at JobsCon ;\)

 Quote:
I seem to recall that humans didn't evolve eating grains, and that grains weren't actually all that prevalent - that they're relatively recent ... can't find the reference right now ... hm, will look that up.

We most definitely did not evolve eating grains. I think only during the Upper Paleolithic did we slowly begin to include them in our diets. Even then, it was not to the extent that we do today. How much grain you ate depended upon how much you could harvest by hand, not how much money you could spend at Taco Bell and the grocery store.

 Quote:
I must be getting old - I'm getting kind of annoyed with how much "science" I'm finding to be crap. I mean, I know there's a lot of psuedo-science out there, but even a lot of the baseline stuff is BS.

So much of it is half-assed and not true science--they don't have proper control groups, and don't take external factors into account when they're processing their results--not to mention how many of these health studies are funded by pro-vegetarian groups.

I ordered a pair of Vibram's Fivefingers (had to return them for a larger size) and am hoping to get them back soon. Tennies have always caused problems for my feet, chiefly in the form of ingrown toe nails and pinched nerves in my metatarsal area. I plan on wearing these shoes as much as possible, even if I don't do anything but stand around all day at work ;\)
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#43565 - 10/11/10 01:10 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Autodidact Offline
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Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

We most definitely did not evolve eating grains. I think only during the Upper Paleolithic did we slowly begin to include them in our diets. Even then, it was not to the extent that we do today. How much grain you ate depended upon how much you could harvest by hand, not how much money you could spend at Taco Bell and the grocery store.


Found one source - here, third question down: http://www.thepaleodiet.com/faqs/#RA


 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

I ordered a pair of Vibram's Fivefingers (had to return them for a larger size) and am hoping to get them back soon. Tennies have always caused problems for my feet, chiefly in the form of ingrown toe nails and pinched nerves in my metatarsal area. I plan on wearing these shoes as much as possible, even if I don't do anything but stand around all day at work ;\)


Heh, I was going to mention those the first time I posted

I would actually advise caution - my understanding is that if you're used to wearing "normal" sneakers, switching will take some time while your muscles get used to working differently. Your feet and lower legs will be sore as you get used to them. Have those tennis shoes around in case you need to switch back in this middle of work.
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#43566 - 10/11/10 02:26 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Autodidact]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I haven't worn tennies in months, and I either wear flip flops or short-heeled shoes to work and for getting around. I go barefoot at home and occasionally at work. I don't think I'll have a particularly tough time going without the pads and support of sneakers.
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#43613 - 10/14/10 10:23 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
 Quote:
I must be getting old - I'm getting kind of annoyed with how much "science" I'm finding to be crap. I mean, I know there's a lot of psuedo-science out there, but even a lot of the baseline stuff is BS.

So much of it is half-assed and not true science--they don't have proper control groups, and don't take external factors into account when they're processing their results--not to mention how many of these health studies are funded by pro-vegetarian groups.

I ordered a pair of Vibram's Fivefingers (had to return them for a larger size) and am hoping to get them back soon. Tennies have always caused problems for my feet, chiefly in the form of ingrown toe nails and pinched nerves in my metatarsal area. I plan on wearing these shoes as much as possible, even if I don't do anything but stand around all day at work ;\)


Ok, I think I could fall in love with those Fivefingers. I'm a bare-foot baby and everyone is ALWAYS telling me to put on shoes. I tend to like wearing things that don't have a damn bit of support in them and feel better with less support on my feet, even walking on concrete for 8 hours a night. Moccasins are my absolute favorite but weather doesn't always permit them and they aren't good with the wet tile floors at work. I'm going to find a way to get a pair of the Fivefingers and try them out.

As for the Paleo diet, I'm slowly working into adjusting our food intake here at home. My youngest isn't a huge meat eater (although he has gotten better this past 10 months) but I'm working the hardest on him. He's being weaned off of so much milk, cheeses, etc., although I won't exclude those things completely from his diet being that he's still a growing kid. The family is enjoying the homemade things like all natural broths/gravies and lots more red meats and pork. We've always eaten lots of meats, but included far too much starch, including breads, etc. They all like noodles, rice, and potatoes, so that's kind of a difficult adjustment, but little by little I'm changing that up too. Fresh or steamed veggies with those sturdy meats and they're not missing the other as much. I'm noticing that my desire for junk food and bread is disappearing without much effort too. Fresh fruit is kept at abundance (bananas, apples, etc.) and I think that's helping, but I've noticed that I want leftovers more than anything. I think because they actually fill me up and without eating so much. My youngest is enjoying eggs and bacon or sausage for breakfast before school, instead of the sugary cereals and milk. He's started losing weight without much effort at all. He's always been on the higher end of the growth chart for his age (90 to 95% for height and around 65 to 75% for weight), but had started putting on a little bit of extra weight the last year or so. That seems to now be dropping back off. I, on the other hand, have the glorious Hungarian and German side of my family and fight tooth and nail to at least attempt to stay trim to some degree. I know when we were eating like this about 5 years ago, I trimmed way down and am hoping this gets me back on track again to getting the few extra pounds gone again.

I didn't know that Albacore Tuna was that high in mercury, so the tid-bit on that was some great info for me to keep in mind when looking into new things to add to our diets here at home.

As for eating raw meat, no can do here. There is just something about it bleeding that profusely that really doesn't sit well with me and the current meats available on the market are not something I would even attempt. I like my red meats medium to medium well depending on the cut and all that, with a decent amount of juice, but I don't think I could eat it completely raw. IF I had to, that might be a different story, but since I don't have to, nope, not gonna.
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#43614 - 10/14/10 11:09 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nyte]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Quote:
As for the Paleo diet, I'm slowly working into adjusting our food intake here at home. My youngest isn't a huge meat eater (although he has gotten better this past 10 months) but I'm working the hardest on him. He's being weaned off of so much milk, cheeses, etc., although I won't exclude those things completely from his diet being that he's still a growing kid.

That's good. It's odd that he doesn't like much meat--perhaps he's had a few badly-cooked meals and was turned off by it? That's one of the reasons why my b/f didn't eat steak up until recently. His mom would overcook the shit out of it, leaving it tasteless and chewy. My mom tended to do that as well and I always hated when she cooked certain foods. That might be what turns your son off of meat, since you like yours more on the done side. Maybe next time you broil/grill some steaks, cook his to just under medium (that's how I like mine, and since meat has to rest for about 5-8 minutes after being removed from the heat, I take mine out when the inside temp hits 145F...by the time it's rested the temp has reached 155-160F). What kind of meats does he like? I'd never tried lamb until this year, and now I'm hooked on it.

For the milk & cheese...if at all possible, make sure to buy him whole milk. Skim and percent milk is useless. It's not the fat in milk that makes kids fat, it's the sugary foods and diet/sugar-free "Splenda"-type sweeteners that screw up their systems. The body has an easier time processing straight sugar than it does all of the artificial sweeteners that's in every processed food nowadays.

 Quote:
My youngest is enjoying eggs and bacon or sausage for breakfast before school, instead of the sugary cereals and milk. He's started losing weight without much effort at all.

Excellent! Yes, having a good meal of protein is a much better way to start the day. For snacks, I like to munch on macadamia nuts, almonds or pecans. Peanuts are technically legumes, so I stay away from those. The nuts have good fats, are filling, and most of them are lightly salted, making them low-sodium. Plus, they're good sources of dietary fiber. I also like to make a batch of hard-boiled eggs to keep in the fridge & snack on. They'd be great to pack in his lunch, to eat for breakfast if he's running late, or as a mid-afternoon snack.

Slices of melon are also good (watermelon, cantaloupe, honeydew). And since they're naturally sweet, it helps take the edge off of any sugar cravings.

For dessert, I like to peel and slice an apple, and fry the slices up in some leftover bacon grease (nitrite-free, 40% less sat fat than traditional bacon). Both sides get golden-brown, then I swab off some of the grease and sprinkle pumpkin pie seasoning (cinnamon, nutmeg & allspice) over it. Delicious!

I'd had no idea that Albacore tended to have higher levels of mercury either. But regular tuna packed in water is just fine, and is a good source of Omega-3 fatty acids. I had a craving for it and bought a pack of small cans. I have one a day for lunch, drained and not mixed with anything like mayo or dressing.
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#43623 - 10/14/10 05:11 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
 Quote:
As for the Paleo diet, I'm slowly working into adjusting our food intake here at home. My youngest isn't a huge meat eater (although he has gotten better this past 10 months) but I'm working the hardest on him. He's being weaned off of so much milk, cheeses, etc., although I won't exclude those things completely from his diet being that he's still a growing kid.

That's good. It's odd that he doesn't like much meat--perhaps he's had a few badly-cooked meals and was turned off by it? That's one of the reasons why my b/f didn't eat steak up until recently. His mom would overcook the shit out of it, leaving it tasteless and chewy. My mom tended to do that as well and I always hated when she cooked certain foods. That might be what turns your son off of meat, since you like yours more on the done side. Maybe next time you broil/grill some steaks, cook his to just under medium (that's how I like mine, and since meat has to rest for about 5-8 minutes after being removed from the heat, I take mine out when the inside temp hits 145F...by the time it's rested the temp has reached 155-160F). What kind of meats does he like? I'd never tried lamb until this year, and now I'm hooked on it.

For the milk & cheese...if at all possible, make sure to buy him whole milk. Skim and percent milk is useless. It's not the fat in milk that makes kids fat, it's the sugary foods and diet/sugar-free "Splenda"-type sweeteners that screw up their systems. The body has an easier time processing straight sugar than it does all of the artificial sweeteners that's in every processed food nowadays.


I think my mom messed up how my youngest felt about meat for a long time. She tends to overcook just about any meat she cooks, and once I started cooking the meats, he started trying more. Getting away from my folks, helped big time. The family likes meat to be cooked to be tender, and definitely not cooked all the way through. Plus the picky eating is inherited, from his father. I've worked hard at making things differently, at least to get them to try different things. And now, they'll both try just about anything I cook up, at least once.

Yeah, I know about the artificial sweetners! I'm highly allergic to them and my oldest has CF, so things like Splenda aren't used in this household. Whole milk is allowed but kept to a minimum for the youngest because he tends to really like it and he'll fill up on it.

Now that I have a place for my eliptical and tread mill, we've started exercising regularly (before I have to get ready for work and while he's home in the afternoon) and he's drinking water during his exercise times, which I think is really helping him out big time. He's not filling up on pop or milk, which is a huge step in a good direction and moving his body as well, another good thing.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
 Quote:
My youngest is enjoying eggs and bacon or sausage for breakfast before school, instead of the sugary cereals and milk. He's started losing weight without much effort at all.

Excellent! Yes, having a good meal of protein is a much better way to start the day. For snacks, I like to munch on macadamia nuts, almonds or pecans. Peanuts are technically legumes, so I stay away from those. The nuts have good fats, are filling, and most of them are lightly salted, making them low-sodium. Plus, they're good sources of dietary fiber. I also like to make a batch of hard-boiled eggs to keep in the fridge & snack on. They'd be great to pack in his lunch, to eat for breakfast if he's running late, or as a mid-afternoon snack.

Slices of melon are also good (watermelon, cantaloupe, honeydew). And since they're naturally sweet, it helps take the edge off of any sugar cravings.

For dessert, I like to peel and slice an apple, and fry the slices up in some leftover bacon grease (nitrite-free, 40% less sat fat than traditional bacon). Both sides get golden-brown, then I swab off some of the grease and sprinkle pumpkin pie seasoning (cinnamon, nutmeg & allspice) over it. Delicious!

I'd had no idea that Albacore tended to have higher levels of mercury either. But regular tuna packed in water is just fine, and is a good source of Omega-3 fatty acids. I had a craving for it and bought a pack of small cans. I have one a day for lunch, drained and not mixed with anything like mayo or dressing.


I'm going to try your snack! Damn that sounds good! I like things like that, so it would be a nice treat and easy enough to make. I bet baking the apple slices in a little bit of bacon grease and add a bit of chopped almond, with the spices......oh my! Now my mind is in over drive about what I can fix like that!

I just got the youngest to try hard boiled eggs a few weeks ago and him and his brother bug me for them about once a week now. It was funny to watch him eat his first one, because he wasn't too sure of it, but the more he ate, the better it was.

The melons are a gimme around here. If I could find a way to keep watermelon, cantalope and honeydew here year round, we'd be set. It's nothing for these guys to finish off 1/2 a large watermelon in a sitting.

I bought 2 huge pumpkins for Halloween for the boys to carve, but I may buy a couple more, just to bake up as a treat. Add some pineapple, cinnamon and some almonds and life will be grand for me! I love squash and saw those were all ok to eat, so needless to say, those are on my shopping lists right now. Even the youngest is willing to try them, so we're all good there!
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#43625 - 10/14/10 07:14 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nyte]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Quote:
bought 2 huge pumpkins for Halloween for the boys to carve, but I may buy a couple more, just to bake up as a treat. Add some pineapple, cinnamon and some almonds and life will be grand for me! I love squash and saw those were all ok to eat, so needless to say, those are on my shopping lists right now. Even the youngest is willing to try them, so we're all good there!

Mmmmm, I looooooooove squash! I bought a pie pumpkin for baking and was really disappointed at how little "meat" there was inside! It was all seeds and guts, gross! I was baking my main dish at the time I opened up the pumpkins, and I said, "fuck this" and drove to the store to buy some real squash \:D Acorn, butternut & spaghetti squash are perfect for baking with a blob of butter & cinnamon in the center, plus they're dirt cheap this time of year. I like how filling they are, they're certainly not a dinky side dish. They're also a great substitute for potatoes and yams. A little stringy at times, but nothing that can't be mashed up good before serving it to picky eaters.

One of my favorite squash dishes is spaghetti squash saute, the recipe for which I posted on the first page of this thread.

Butter isn't Paleo, but is often difficult to leave out when preparing a meal. Just don't use margarine! *shudder*
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#43631 - 10/15/10 05:34 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Bacon grease, whole milk, butter, cinammon?

Okay, maybe cinammon...

I'm just gonna take a sideline stance on this, because I really don't understand it anymore.

Good posts Nemesis, and if I knew what was actually your posts, Nyte, I might say the same, try just writing maybe... we might just get it.

It's all fats and a very strange selection of carbs, (meats that probably weren't available, and vegetables... I don't get it) I really don't get it, so I'll just shut up now.

I'll follow this, it's very interesting... and I'd like to hear about everyone's weight loss and their LDL counts... not that it seems to mean much. Good luck with the fats and grease!

Another Tequila please. And some peanuts.

Daeve.
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#43635 - 10/15/10 08:19 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: daevid777]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
Bacon grease, whole milk, butter, cinammon?

Okay, maybe cinammon...

I'm just gonna take a sideline stance on this, because I really don't understand it anymore.

Good posts Nemesis, and if I knew what was actually your posts, Nyte, I might say the same, try just writing maybe... we might just get it.

It's all fats and a very strange selection of carbs, (meats that probably weren't available, and vegetables... I don't get it) I really don't get it, so I'll just shut up now.

I'll follow this, it's very interesting... and I'd like to hear about everyone's weight loss and their LDL counts... not that it seems to mean much. Good luck with the fats and grease!

Another Tequila please. And some peanuts.

Daeve.


Sorry my post was so mixed up. I had 20 things going through my head to post about, doing 3 other things at once and forgot to re-read before posting because time ran out on me. My bad.

As for the selections of foods for the Paleo diet, I think what you're forgetting is that it's not like we're taking all the grease from a pound of bacon and cooking one or 2 eggs in it, to saturate the eggs (at least I'm not). I cook with a "light hand" when it comes to using anything that would be considered a "whole fat food". A small tsp of bacon grease warmed in the pan to make it so the eggs don't stick, but that's all. The bacon is patted dry so the grease doesn't sit and collect on the strips as they cool. Whole milk is used in moderation as well.

Something I have found is that my body doesn't tolerate the "additives" in preserved foods anymore, which is just about anything, other than fresh cuts of meat and veggies, raw nuts, and things like real butter or whole milk. Look on the grocery shelves and you will find products that last days, to weeks, and even up to a year, especially the "diet" products. Imagine what kind of additives are sitting in those "convient" foods. When cooking in a Paleo type method, you're using things that don't have that kind of shelf life, which can make all the difference in the way your body breaks down the foods and the way fat is stored or used. Anything frozen in this house was made here, not with a ton of "extra" chemicals.

A few years back, I was eating this way and was the healthiest I'd ever been. My oldest who has Cystic Fibrosis (CF) and my other half were healthier too. My youngest was slim and trim, and active all day long, without the sugar "crash". The difference was, I didn't think about what I cooked, I just cooked like I was taught by my grandparents (which is essentially like now) and it worked. I fell away from cooking this way when we moved in with my folks to help them out. It became a way to cook large meals without much fuss, buying boxed crap. Now though, life is different and I can make things that are actually home made that are much better for us. I just make sure to keep it to higher end meats, veggies and fruits on hand and the higher fatty stuff kept to a minimum. Breads, noodles, rice, dairy, etc., are no longer staples with meals. I won't cut them out completely because my boys need them, but I don't use them regularly either. It may not make sense to someone that's a diet guru but it's working and that's what matters.

As for the medical end of this, well, I know that my blood pressure was down, and my sugars weren't taking dives before, like they have been the last few years. My migraines were to a minimum as well, with me going 3 years between shots for them. I'm hoping to see those things straighten themselves out again but time will tell.
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#43636 - 10/15/10 08:24 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: daevid777]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
A member of the cavemanforum just got his blood test results in, and I asked him if I could post them here (I didn't mention that it was an LHP/Satanic forum )

Here is his post, copied verbatim--

Feel free to use my post. I have been Paleo since Mid March 2010. FYI, I am strict Paleo with my food intake but I still drink more alcohol than I should and actually my results would be way better if I just cut down but truly amazing if I stopped altogether. At that point I would be 100% Paleo. Just to back track for you, My high weight was 178, 5'7" @ 55 years. My current weight is 152, 5'7" @ 57 years. My previous blood work was awful. I had one Dr. ask me how was I alive. My tri's were around 480. You can imagine the other readings. Other benefits I have seen, sinus problem I have had all my life has vanished. My energy level is over the top. I have never felt better. Five years ago I had a total knee replacement and have not been Alpine skiing since. Well, this season I intend to strap on he boards and hit the slopes again. Instead of getting older, I feel like I am getting younger.


I had my blood test results talk with my Dr. today

My Results Rating Acceptable Range
Sodium 130 Low 136-146
Potassium 5.5 High 3.5 - 5.1
Chloride 95 Low 98-107
Glucose 74 Normal 70-107
CO2 22 Normal 22-32
BUN 24 High 7-22
Creatinine 1 Normal 0.7-1.3
Calcium 9.6 Normal 8.4-10.3
Albumin 4.5 Normal 3.3-5.0
AST 23 Normal 15-37
Protein 7.5 Normal 6.0-8.0
Bilirubin 0.5 Normal 0.1-1.2
ALT 24 Normal 12-78
Alk Phos 38 Normal 38-126
Osmo calc 273 Low 280-305
Cholesterol 182 Normal <200
HDL 68 Normal 30-70
Triglycerides 132 Normal <150
LDL calculation 88 Normal <130
Hemoglobin 5.1 Normal 4.0-6.0

So he said up my salt intake a bit and cut out my bananas for a while. I get retested for some of the odd stuff in two weeks. BP was back up again to 140-80. I know that is because I am drinking too much alcohol. I cut that and down it goes. Funny thing about the sodium and chloride.... We high BP people are supposed to cut out salt which obviously did and see how it fell off the table.

Anyway, I think over all it was a great blood test for me. Thank you Paleo.
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#43653 - 10/17/10 03:22 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
Here I go, throwing in on the tail end of something again, but I have to...

I've basically eaten this way my entire adult life, plus loads of garlic, and I'm healthy as a horse. I started making TS eat this way after we tied the knot and he went from being embarrassingly unhealthy to having a cholesterol of 163, blood pressure of 102/63 and replacing about 40 pounds of fat with about 20 pounds of muscle. No more breakfast/lunch/dinner pills for him.

Basically, if you can't hunt it or gather it, we don't eat it. And by this time next year our menu will come almost exclusively from the acres we occupy so it'll be even more so.

I never understood how people could possibly think that any sort of processed food with shit you can't even pronounce added to it could be healthy...

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#43663 - 10/17/10 03:14 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: ceruleansteel]
felixgarnet Offline
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Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I will have to try this - really, I will. I've had fibromyalgia with CFS for many years which makes it virtually impossible to exercise and have gut and sinus problems. The rhinitis is so bad that it's weakened my bladder and starts off violent coughing every time I move from one environment to another, especially if there are people there. I'd like to feel better and stronger and lose around 30 pounds.
Someone here mentioned post-nasal drip, I believe (can't pin-point it right now) and I'd be grateful to hear of any information on this and the Paleo diet's affect. \:\)
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#43668 - 10/17/10 04:37 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: felixgarnet]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I believe that was me ;\)

Over the past couple of years, my post-nasal drip would persist long after eating a meal. It would seem to worsen depending on what I ate like pizza or pasta. I would lie in bed trying to clear my throat quietly so as not to disturb my b/f, and it was really just driving me insane.

Since switching to Paleo (with few to no wheat/bread/dairy cheats) my symptoms have practically disappeared. The gentleman whose blood test results I quoted, also suffered from p-n drip and was relieved of those symptoms on Paleo as well.

Grains & legumes are often the culprit behind leaky gut syndrome, symptoms which include: abdominal pain, heartburn, insomnia, bloating, anxiety, gluten intolerance, malnutrition, muscle cramps and pains, poor exercise tolerance, food allergies.
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#43669 - 10/17/10 07:29 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
felixgarnet Offline
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Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Hey, Nemesis, thank you for such a prompt response! You and your drip sounds exactly like mine. Eating sets it off, so . . . Paleo, here I come! It will take a while to avoid cheese but I wondered how soy products fare? I already use the "milk". \:\)
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#43670 - 10/17/10 07:36 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
 Quote:
bought 2 huge pumpkins for Halloween for the boys to carve, but I may buy a couple more, just to bake up as a treat. Add some pineapple, cinnamon and some almonds and life will be grand for me! I love squash and saw those were all ok to eat, so needless to say, those are on my shopping lists right now. Even the youngest is willing to try them, so we're all good there!

Mmmmm, I looooooooove squash! I bought a pie pumpkin for baking and was really disappointed at how little "meat" there was inside! It was all seeds and guts, gross! I was baking my main dish at the time I opened up the pumpkins, and I said, "fuck this" and drove to the store to buy some real squash \:D Acorn, butternut & spaghetti squash are perfect for baking with a blob of butter & cinnamon in the center, plus they're dirt cheap this time of year. I like how filling they are, they're certainly not a dinky side dish. They're also a great substitute for potatoes and yams. A little stringy at times, but nothing that can't be mashed up good before serving it to picky eaters.

One of my favorite squash dishes is spaghetti squash saute, the recipe for which I posted on the first page of this thread.

Butter isn't Paleo, but is often difficult to leave out when preparing a meal. Just don't use margarine! *shudder*


I love eating squash of all kinds. The youngest tried Acorn squash the other day and I just about fell out at how much he liked it. He's tried it before but not like I made it this time. I baked it face down, then once cooked, scooped out the "meat" and put it in a dish with just a small amount of butter, some cinnamon and chopped almonds. Mixed up and served. He ate more than I did. He's planning on trying some butternut squash this week with me. I love the fact he's eating healthier and with that in mind, he just put on a pair of pants today that he couldn't wear 2 weeks ago because the snap kept popping. He came running out of his room to show me. I've noticed my jeans are starting to become loose as well! It's only been a few weeks since I started working on cutting out the starches and sugars and all ready there's a HUGE change. It's worth giving a try at least.

Oh, and almost forgot, my munchy food has become almonds. ;\)
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#43671 - 10/17/10 08:53 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: felixgarnet]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Soy products are also a no-go. Soy is a really unhealthy food in all its forms Oh boy how we are misled about soy . You might find that it's been contributing to the digestive problems you've been having. You would be much better off using almond milk instead, even though that's only Paleo by a wink and a nod ;\)

I avoid soy like the plague.

Why soy is bad
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#43684 - 10/18/10 03:11 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Almond milk isn't Paleo! Neither is Milk Milk!...

Sorry, I was going to stay out of this, and I just said people shouldn't quote... but Nyte's really got the paste into the paste shit going, it's about to get ridiculous if anyone responds...

And then there was this little gem:

 Quote:
You and your drip sounds exactly like mine.


Sorry Babe, I couldn't let it go, It's just my sense of humour, I'm sorry.

Please ignore me, I'm just the Jester.

Love for you Nemesis!
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#43685 - 10/18/10 03:39 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3125
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
Soy products are also a no-go. Soy is a really unhealthy food in all its forms Oh boy how we are misled about soy . You might find that it's been contributing to the digestive problems you've been having. You would be much better off using almond milk instead, even though that's only Paleo by a wink and a nod ;\)

I avoid soy like the plague.

Why soy is bad

Soy isn't THAT bad. But once again, with all things, soyproducts should be eaten with moderation. It is true of the phytooestrogens being present within the beans, but there are other products who contain these as well and even have it in much higher concentration.

The only people who should be worried about the side-effects of soyaproducts should be vegetarians (since most of them use soy-based products as a substitute for meat) and people who are a little too much caught up with their health and eat soyproducts on a daily basis. From time to time eating soy isn't that bad. Moderation is a keyword.
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#43690 - 10/18/10 07:40 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Dimitri]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Quote:
Soy isn't THAT bad. But once again, with all things, soyproducts should be eaten with moderation. It is true of the phytooestrogens being present within the beans, but there are other products who contain these as well and even have it in much higher concentration.

The only people who should be worried about the side-effects of soyaproducts should be vegetarians (since most of them use soy-based products as a substitute for meat) and people who are a little too much caught up with their health and eat soyproducts on a daily basis. From time to time eating soy isn't that bad. Moderation is a keyword.

Maybe so, but why bother eating it in the first place when you get better nutrition (and taste) from a variety of other foods? True, if you're vegan, you're shit out of luck as far as getting protein from meat, but even still, soy is a poor second. Maybe even fifth, when it comes to protein and nutrient content.

All of the foods containing phytoestrogens are: soybeans, tofu, tempeh, soy beverages, linseed (flax), sesame seeds, wheatberries, fenugreek, oats, barley, dried beans, lentils, yams, rice, alfalfa, mung beans, apples, carrots, pomegranates, wheat germ, rice bran, soy linseed bread, ginseng, hops[17], bourbon, beer, fennel and anise.

From that list, only the ones highlighted in bold are Paleo. There's no way you could eat enough of those 6 foods to consume an unhealthy amount of phytoestrogens. On the other hand, if you consume ALL of those foods on a daily basis (which many people do, even though they're not vegetarians), then you're setting yourself up for problems.

There are just not enough health benefits from soy (and beans in general) to justify eating any of it, even in small amounts.

And yes Dave, I know that no "milk" is Paleo, but almond milk (which has a ton of sweeteners and other crap in it which are most definitely NOT Paleo, plus cavemen had no way to make "milk" from nuts) is still better than soy, if only by comparison. ;\)

On a related "nut milk" (lol) note, I spent the better part of an hour, several nicks from a knife, and making a huge mess, while trying to remove the meat from a coconut to make a batch of "milk" last night. Jesus Christ, I have bandaids on two fingers, a chipped ceramic knife, and I bled all over the coconut (which I thoroughly rinsed off pre-blending). But it was delicious and totally worth it. I use about a tablespoon of it in my espresso each morning for flavor and the good fats, and the yield from one coconut lasts me 2 weeks. The only ingredient I add to it is water, and everything is strained through a cheesecloth into a Blender bottle .
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#43708 - 10/19/10 10:35 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Nemesis, thanks for all the info. I was reading labels yesterday day and was surprised to find how many things have soy used in them, in one form or another. I don't eat things with soy as the primary ingredients myself because it tends to make my body do some funky/funny things but hadn't paid attention to what else was out there with soy used in them. I was surprised and needless to say, things with soy went back up on the shelves, not in my cart.

I found something fun in the process though. All natural coconut milk in one of the small grocery stores here. It's only got the coconut milk and some water added to it and wasn't really unreasonable either, a little more than the cost of the coconuts themselves. I was stoked and bought a bottle to try it. I'm finding I'm wanting more steeped teas and use stevia from my garden as the natural sweetner, so I thought I'd try the coconut milk in the teas. Once in a while I drink coffee too. It'll be a nice change from the milk and creamers.

To ceruleansteel: I'd love to be able to get out of having to buy the majority of our food from grocery stores too, but we don't have that kind of property. I'm hoping to get to move south in a few years where I can have a garden longer but that will remain to be seen. I don't know if my family would adapt well to having to clean their own meat for dinner (maybe if they REALLY had to). My other half was raised on a farm, so he knows all about skinning an animal and prep, but the youngest I think likes the fact he doesn't have to see the animal's face before eating it. ; )
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#44421 - 11/23/10 07:31 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nyte]
Dutch Satanist Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Delft, The Netherlands
Hey, this Paleo thing is interesting, if only because it meshes with my wife's food allergies. She's lactose intolerant and does not respond well to sugar, chocolate and peanuts, even though she craves all those things when she is on the rag.

I'm going to study this for a bit and see what I can get out of it. I don't know if I could go completely Paleo, since I like my whiskey, meade, beer and cheese too much... \:\)

I also saw NeoPaleo mentioned here and there. What's the difference?
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#44427 - 11/23/10 12:19 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Dutch Satanist]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
That's a good question, DS. I've never come across mention of "NeoPaleo" until I Googled it just now. Apparently it's a much more lax version of Paleo that includes seeds and seed by-products, certain gluten-free grains like quinoa and buckwheat, soy (yuck), and other similar foods typically shunned by Paleo eaters.

I really enjoy eating Paleo. I've been having some digestive issues lately, but it's something that's been a long time in coming that I've never properly addressed until now. I'm still trying to work out the cause/effect of certain foods on my system. I still feel great, have stable energy throughout the day, and have lost an additional pound or two over the past month (mostly from low-calorie days where I'm too busy to eat).
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#44429 - 11/23/10 02:54 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
Dutch Satanist Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Delft, The Netherlands
Me and my wife are going to try it for a month starting next year. If we like it, we will stick to it. She has read about it online and she thinks it looks promising, since it isn't really a diet, but a change in eating habits. And the lack of foods she is allergic to or has intolerance for is also what peaked her interest.

I will of course keep you updated \:\)
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#51967 - 03/31/11 11:34 AM Re: Primal eating [Re: Dutch Satanist]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Well after having been on the Paleo diet since August, I finally got some routine blood work done and wanted to share my results:

(I had to fast 12 hours beforehand)

Glucose 76 mg/dL (normal-mid)
Blood Urea Nitrogen 14 mg/dL (normal-mid)
Creatine 0.68 mg/dL (normal-low)
Sodium 140 mmol/L (normal-mid)
Potassium 4.2 mmol/L (normal-mid)
Chloride 103 mmol/L (normal-mid)
CO2 23 mmol/L (normal-low)
Calcium 9.4 mg/dL (normal-mid)
Albumin 4.8 g/dL (normal-high)
Total Protein 7.0 g/dL (normal-mid)
Total Bilirubin 0.7 mg/dL (normal-mid)
Alkaline Phosphate 44 U/L (normal-low)
ALT 14 U/L (normal-low)
AST 15 U/L (normal-low)
Globulin 2.2 g/dL (calc) (normal-low)
Albumin/Globulin 2.2 (normal-high)

Lipid Profile

Total Cholesterol 165mg/dL (normal-mid)
Triglycerides 56 mg/dL (normal-low)
HDL (good) 63 mg/dL (anything over 46mg is best)
LDL (bad) 91 mg/dL (anything under 100mg is best)

LOL@ low fat/meat diets.
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#52000 - 03/31/11 07:27 PM Re: Primal eating [Re: Nemesis]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Quote:
Well after having been on the Paleo diet since August, I finally got some routine blood work done and wanted to share my results:



As per face value, your metabollically healthy!

As far as eating is concerned, there is a recipe I wanted to share from Bisceglie, Italia:

Bisceglie Ravioli with Cherry-Cherry Marinara: Because this town uses an abundance of fresh vegetables, one characteristic of this type of ravioli is the addition of cherry tomatoes. The pasta (ravioli) and marinara sauce is prepared with graham cheese in fine crumbs. Coat each ravioli in egg whites, place in a bag with breadcrumbs and cook in a skillet with olive oil.

Mmmm. And, for dessert? Wait, and see...

Ciao
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