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#43315 - 09/29/10 10:56 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Jake999]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Jake

After reading your and Aquino's responses I realized that I may have come across as flippant in my own response.

Obviously I don't have the history with the C/S that you have and my comment was only meant as an appreciation of a Satanist in the public eye shaking things up a bit over there.

Anyway, I meant no disrespect in my comment. Hope it wasn't read that way.
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#43319 - 09/29/10 01:12 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: TheInsane]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
This is exactly what I think Satanism needs to get away from. "Would LaVey still want him?" Seriously who cares? LaVey is dead and Satanism needs to move on.

Yes Dr.LaVey has passed away and yes it is irrelevant to ask oneself "if LaVey still wanted him". But the questions as raised by Jake are legit and have also arisen in my mind. Why would Rice make a come-back on the mainstage when it comes to Satanism etc..

 Quote:
And I hope, if he does create for himself an highly influential voice in the "Satanic community", that he does things to forward Satanism. To break free from the chains of, not necessarily LaVey and his writings, but of his lackeys and parrots.

I doubt Rice would be capable of that. As far as I am concerned, Satanism has progressed with thanks to people like...me.. who recognized themselves in ASL's writings and who had the ability to come to their own conclusions and have their own views on things. The real individuals so to speak and not the self-proclaimed ones.

I also find Rice should be ashamed of himself for making a descision he should have made 13 years ago. I strongly belief in things as "honour" and "pride". His declining 13 years ago might have had a valid personal reason, but returning now and (if he is serious about it) claiming his position now sounds cowardish to me.
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#43322 - 09/29/10 01:45 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Dimitri]
Incendium Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Knoxville, Tennessee
The way I see things is someone has to take control over this beast. This crazy train known as the Church of Satan needs to have the brakes hit before it derails. The people in control are ridiculous morons with little to add to Dr. LaVey's teachings. The one thing I'm afraid of is not Gilmore himself, per se, but his successor: one who is very likely to be more incompetent than he is.

I'm not a member of the CoS and it doesn't effect me in that way, but I don't want shit-flinging baboons going on TV and making Satanists look like fools. The media is tailored for the masses as is, so we need a little more in the spot light than is, or could be. Perhaps Boyd Rice isn't the man for the job. I'm not too familiar with him, but at some point this will end up being treated like politics, the lesser of two evils. The douche bag or the shit sandwich.

As for personality cult, the Church does enough of that for us. Anyone who has visited LttD knows what I mean. A post is made by a person in the forum and if anyone above the level of "Active Member" finds the time to "grace them with their presence", everyone hops on their dick(s). "Good point, Reverend!" "Well played, Magister!" Ugh.

My esteem for Dr. LaVey I don't find to be worship. He is one of the few to ever truly represent us publicly, and he provided all of us with a flag to hang proudly. I hold him in very high regard, and I envy Jake, Mr. Rice, and Dr. Aquino to have known him. But I find consolation that if Hell does end up being a reality, I know I'll meet him there.
_________________________
-Incendium-

"Unholy Satanist, child of perdition, ask not for absolution in the hour of death!"

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#43324 - 09/29/10 02:07 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Dimitri]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
I agree with most of what you write Dimitri. Although I won't make any judgments on whether Boyd Rice has what it takes to make an impact. However to me he always seemed like one of those persons who might have recognized himself as a Satanist based on LaVeys foundational ideas but that always took it to another level. That is one thing the current CoS hasnt done at all really.

As far as Mr. Rice's descision in 1997 to not succeed Anton LaVey I do not know why he choose not to and thus I wont condemn or praise him for it. He probably had a valid reason.

With all this being said I think the approach is a good one. sometimes you have to destroy to build something new. Obviously Boyd Rice wont destroy the current incarnation of the CoS but if it is a step in the right direction for them to either change or turn to dust I am all for it.

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#43325 - 09/29/10 02:09 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Incendium]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
The way I see things is someone has to take control over this beast.

Why should it? The church at some point will hit the proverbial fan anyway. Its mere existance is almost in contradiction with the philosophy. In either way you turn it, it is a sinking ship.

 Quote:
I'm not a member of the CoS and it doesn't effect me in that way, but I don't want shit-flinging baboons going on TV and making Satanists look like fools.
Why should you care about it? If you think you know what it is about and distantiate yourself from that particular bunch... I know people and organizations who are far worse and claim to represent Satanism (JoS springs to mind). I call myself a Satanist and I know the image that the people have in mind is that of some deluded and hormon driven teenager or a person like the one from the shooting in Columbine high. Why should I care Gilmore and the CoS is the way it is now. They are at least doing a better job in comparisation with other, the lesser evil so to speak.
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#43326 - 09/29/10 02:36 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Dimitri]
Incendium Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Knoxville, Tennessee
I suppose the only reason I do care is the superficial representation of the label I have for myself is portrayed by dumbasses. But you are correct, that if I just be the best I can be, then one day say "I am a Satanist and this is what Satanism has done for me... and no I'm not affiliated with those idiots in New York..." then I can accurately represent Satanism as a practitioner, not an organization. I know my hope for a turnaround is pretty naive, considering people will always corrupt shit others hold dear.

Oh damn, could you imagine the JoS being a public entity? I shudder at the thought.
_________________________
-Incendium-

"Unholy Satanist, child of perdition, ask not for absolution in the hour of death!"

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#43329 - 09/29/10 03:48 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Incendium]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
One could also ask, as I have often done, why so many idiots seems to be drawn to Satanism. Dont get me wrong there are some of the most intelligent and honest people involved in it as well but in general I tend to dislike most Satanists. And its not a matter of different beliefs in specific matters - I can easily appreciate a person who does not agree with me at all. Sure enough, all religions and the like attract stupid people but Satanism does seem to have more than its fair share of idiots in its ranks.

In some way it is annoying when idiots are the official face of the religion or philosophy you hold dearest to heart. Of course I would like the CoS to be a vibrand and positive organisation of intellectual people. It does bother me that it seems to be made up of goths and other people who like to dress up and who tries the hardest to learn TSB by memory so they can stick quotes up our asses if we disagree with them on even the slightest point.

Now its not like I lose any sleep over the matter. In fact I am so distanced from any "official Satanism movement" that I hardly identify with any of the official people representing Satanism. But of course I would prefer it if public Satanists actually tried to live do what they preach and be productive instead of dressing funny and accomplish nothing.

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#43336 - 09/29/10 10:46 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: OmegaWolf]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
OmegaWolf quotes http://boydrice.com/news.html and then writes
 Quote:
Of course, this is not an "official" statement or disbandment; more of a rallying against the current state of the COS.

what caused him to quit the CoS C9?

 Quote:
I am sure these sentiments echo those of many Satanists, who have chosen to disregard the current COS.

I suppose, but the rest of us weren't as heavily involved so as to be offered the dynastic mantle.

 Quote:
...it is interesting to hear his current stance of the COS; a topic he has been silent on for many years (save for declaring that he basically has no involvement in it these days).

does he say anywhere else why he's been so silent?
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#43359 - 09/30/10 02:38 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: TheInsane]
Wolflust Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 33
My take on why so many morons are drawn to (LaVeyan) Satanism, except its "shocking and mysterious" symbolism, is because it provides many people with a feeling of superiority.

The so-called rules and sins makes up standards for them on how to live (or rather jabber on a message board), and makes them feel like they can look down on all these people who "dont get it".

So since they agree with the contents laid forth in the Satanic Bible, they can feel like they are "elite".
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#43362 - 09/30/10 04:23 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Jake999]
Prometheus9 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 37
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
LaVey would probably be more pissed at Boyd Rice deciding to do something he was asked to do 13 years ago, when his acceptance would have meant something, and refused. Now he's suddenly decided that LaVey was right and that HE should be the rightful king... cui bono?


Certainly something to consider.

 Quote:
Where has Mr. Rice been for the past 13 years? Why have we heard virtually NOTHING from him since the death of Dr. LaVey? Who knows even if his vision of Satanism remains in synch or even compatible with that of LaVey?


Considering that he's released three books and several other releases I think it is relatively easy to get a sense of where Mr. Rice has been the last 13 years. To say that you have heard nothing from his I can see but to think he's been in hiding for the last 13 years while appearing on TV shows, touring and doing Museum discussions is a sign of your lack of attention, not his lack of activity.

 Quote:
What would make Rice even think that Dr. LaVey would still want him, having shown reluctance to take the reins of leadership when he was asked to? But now that, and let's face it... his career as an antiestablishment radical entertainer is no longer relevant... he is suddenly consumed by the Black Flame with passion to bring Satanism out of the doldrums of the current leadership's hands?


Again, I think you characterization is off base. Mr. Rice, love him or hate him, is still as relevant as he's ever been and more productive in the last five years or so than probably in any other period of his career. He's even the subject of a film that is being shown at Cannes.

Which is a much better place to begin in the Cui Bono? investigation.

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#43364 - 09/30/10 04:44 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: nocTifer]
Prometheus9 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 37
 Originally Posted By: nocTifer

does he say anywhere else why he's been so silent?


If his past comments have been any indication it was mostly due to wishing Barton and the Gilmores the best, allowing them to continue to use his past association to their benefit and otherwise just getting out of the way of things.

His reasons for not taking up the organizational mantle were pretty simple as well. more than anything he seemed to not want his life taken over by another man's legacy nor the kind of responsibility that would go with trying to act as a leadership figure for a formal organization.

In the intervening years Barton and the Gilmores have alienated nearly everyone that had been close to LaVey towards the end of his life while trying to use those same names to promote their group. The increasingly Randoid tenor of Gilmore along with his elevation of his private D&D crew has essentially drained the vital force out of the Church of Satan name. While it has a certain museum quality to it those who were move moved by Anton may find this a rallying point.

The spirit of Rice's actions are relatively clear from his word

 Quote:

True LaVeyan Satanism only exists insofar as it is manifested in deeds - in life and living. Never in mere words. Elitism is self-defining, it is not a commodity that can be bought or sold for a few hundred dollars, or whatever the going rate is for a little, red membership card.

...

In the future, LaVey's ideas can only survive in so much as they constitute a living reality, and never as mere platitudes on the printed page or computer screen; and in the future, such ideas must be taken to the next level. They must be recognized as purely foundational.

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#43367 - 09/30/10 05:20 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Prometheus9]
Prometheus9 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 37
This, hands down, was Boyd rice's best contribution to Humanity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-YoY60BRsc&feature=player_embedded

Whoever decided to pair these two things together deserves all the real credit.

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#43368 - 09/30/10 05:28 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Prometheus9]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
I'm not that familiar with Rice either myself. Perhaps, I think it would be interesting and maybe a bit refreshing that he would step forward as the new High Priest. I can only agree with him that LaVey's works should be considered foundational, taken to the next level - manifested in reality and not in mere words or as shown on a computer screen. But, I can't say I'm 100% for the disbanding of the Church of Satan even though I strongly resent the image of a "Church." I think that the organization is indeed needed, not so much as a building but a cabal of like minded individuals. But on the other hand (or 3rd hand) I think that if people want to buy a membership to advance in the organization, I think I'd leave that be.

Edited by Lamar (09/30/10 05:30 PM)

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#43451 - 10/05/10 10:38 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Wolflust]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
All of that plus there is an element of rebellion (the non thinking kind).

Since so many raise their families in households with abrahamic religious traditions, I think a natural part of rebellion is to try to throw those chains off as well as the other household restrictions that are common in most families.

Since jesus is so meaningful to mom and dad maybe taking a swipe at that has its appeal to some, and perhaps they think that the ultimate act of defiance would be to attempt to embrace Satanism.

Some go on for years in their own bubble without realizing that what they are calling Satanism is anything but. Some come into contact with real Satanists who are much harsher judges of them than their parents ever tried to be and they either run away crying or they toughen up and represent.

The bottom line is that plenty of people identify with trying to look like a bad ass. The disconnect comes in when they realize that looking the part is incidental to actually BEING a bad ass which is the sole domain of the true Satanist.
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Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#43459 - 10/05/10 09:50 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: TheInsane]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 149
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane
One could also ask, as I have often done, why so many idiots seems to be drawn to Satanism. Sure enough, all religions and the like attract stupid people but Satanism does seem to have more than its fair share of idiots in its ranks. It does bother me that it seems to be made up of goths and other people who like to dress up and who tries the hardest to learn TSB by memory so they can stick quotes up our asses if we disagree with them on even the slightest point.




It's a place for the "outsiders" to go and feel like they belong. They're the psuedo-Satanists. They think it's cool to be a Satanist since Satan has such a strong image and is considered the ultimate rebel. They want all the accoutrements but don't want to bother learning the actual philosophy behind it. They read TSB and stop at that. They don't realize how deep and involved Satanism really is and don't want to bother learning. They read in TSB that they're elite and walk around thinking that. But they're really the sheep.
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