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#43756 - 10/22/10 08:18 PM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: Jake999]
Gueheriet Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 23
And itīs commonly used by catholics from Spain who also call it Cross of Carabaca...

Iīm not saying he owns any rights over those symbols, BUT making gear using those symbols that looks pretty similar to Boyd Rice/Nonīs merch that contains those symbols and selling that gear in some subcultural circles where those symbols are closely associated with Boyd Rice/Non is not exactly what I would call fair play and in some ways itīs using Boyd Riceīs image on otherīs people benefit.

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#43761 - 10/22/10 09:16 PM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: Gueheriet]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
not exactly what I would call fair play and in some ways itīs using Boyd Riceīs image on otherīs people benefit.


So? What do you care? And as far as "fairness" is concerned, well, if you are in it to win it you can not afford to be concerned with things like what is or isn't fair.
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No gods. No masters.

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#44800 - 12/09/10 07:56 PM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: Aklo]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Originally Posted By: this reporter
The only way it is going to be effective is if it gets some reiterative press. If people doing journalism point out at the end of their misinformed conglomerations that the post-LaVey COS was eventually dissolved by Boyd Rice in favor of a vampire-free series of real-life accomplishments, well; that will be as funny as the Sammy Davis Jr. days, now won't it?


Just as a side note to my comments about journalistic leverage, here is something the world says about Karla and the FSC

 Quote:
Born 195210. Daughter of Anton LaVey and Carole Lansing. Eldest daughter of LaVey3. Created and ran the independant short lived First Satanic Church for a while in the late 1990s.

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/people.html

We all know this isn't so. We see various events from time to time, some of the people here attend them. Anyone who does a lick of research knows it isn't so. But that isn't relevant, some people just take what they are told and repeat it.

The more independent copies of the Boyd Rice story the web sees, the more times it gets linked to, the more fun it will generate.
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Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#75372 - 03/13/13 06:21 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: TheInsane]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
Well said. This constant falling back on ' what would LaVey have done ' or ' what would have LaVey thought is irrelevant at this point.

Clearly Boyd Rice was poking fun at the current state of the Church of Satan. And I agree with Mr. Rice sentiments. I appreciate the humor in his statement.Although there might be a thread of butthurt in it.Who knows? Not I. I do not know Mr. Rice personally.

I do agree that Satanism 'evolves'. For better or for worse. What may have worked 40-50 years ago may not work today.
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http://satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

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#75373 - 03/13/13 10:18 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Zach_Black]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Zach_Black

I do agree that Satanism 'evolves'. For better or for worse. What may have worked 40-50 years ago may not work today.


I'm not sure I agree with this. I think people evolve in their understanding of Satanism and perhaps do new and/or different things with it (as time/technology/etc allows) but the basic tenets remain the same.

In my opinion this is why books like The Satanic Bible (among many others) remain relevant (and applicable) despite the passage of years.
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Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#75378 - 03/15/13 12:01 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Zach_Black]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: Zach_Black


I do agree that Satanism 'evolves'. For better or for worse. What may have worked 40-50 years ago may not work today.





It has to on some level. I never knew Mr. LaVey, but one can see demonstrable changes in his text published in the 90s from that of the 60s. Further, he didn't consider himself the last word on the subject. Given he's a bit dead, he has nothing further to say. It may be more a matter of changes in *specific* individuals, but it is still an evolution of sorts. I don't think much remains the same (beyond our mutual insomnia).

Can't speak to Rice's intent. I think he's poking fun at specific individuals.
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Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

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#75379 - 03/15/13 12:12 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Fnord]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
 Originally Posted By: Zach_Black

I do agree that Satanism 'evolves'. For better or for worse. What may have worked 40-50 years ago may not work today.


I'm not sure I agree with this. I think people evolve in their understanding of Satanism and perhaps do new and/or different things with it (as time/technology/etc allows) but the basic tenets remain the same.

In my opinion this is why books like The Satanic Bible (among many others) remain relevant (and applicable) despite the passage of years.


This is true if the context is specific to LaVey. You would have to accept the tenets as *he* defined them as being as *the* tenets of Satanism. Some will. Some won't. Some will draw inspiration from him and create their own tenets. Some will disregard him entirely. They may still come to similar conclusions as to the meaning of Satanism.
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#75381 - 03/15/13 03:31 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Le Deluge]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
There has been changes in the landscape and BR's open letter did illustrate a change has occured. The change itself having to do with a shift from a central informational nexus (and various smaller affilations) towards small independant groups.
This makes the CoS an obsolete entity as being the main progressive drive behind it all.

It could be said the era of Satanism as it should be has started


Edited by Dimitri (03/15/13 03:34 AM)
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#75461 - 03/21/13 10:31 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Dimitri]
KenazFilan Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 34
If Boyd Rice can surround himself with this generation's Jayne Mansfields and Sammy Davis Jrs. and write new material which is as popular and influential as The Satanic Bible, more power to him. He obviously has a vision for what the Church of Satan should be and should do: let's see how he puts that vision into practice.

Personally, I think the Church of Satan functions most effectively when it acts as the Anton LaVey Appreciation Society ("Anton LaVey Fan Club" for those fond of less high-falutin' verbiage). Fan clubs are dedicated to the achievements of men and women: they are places where people can talk about their common interest. People go to the William S. Burroughs fan club to discuss his writing, not his marksmanship: they go to the Stravinsky Appreciation club to hear his chamber music, not sneer about his affair with that nubile young soprano. Fans can enjoy a movie or a musical without considering them "divinely inspired." And most importantly those who kill in the name of Bieber or Bach are reviled as obsessed maniacs, not honored as crusading warriors.

Because it is impossible to copyright the word "Satanism" any idiot who wants to run with the term and create their own "Satanick Grotto of Eternel Evel" or "Worldwide Order of Satanist's" can do so. And most of those idiots are happy to jump in front of a microphone to explain what Satanism REALLY is. And this is another place where the Church of Satan comes in handy. Whether or not you like Peter Gilmore and Peggy Nadramia, they come across in interviews as sane, intelligent and well-spoken people. If we must have a media representative, they come across WAY better than Lord Gorgoroth the Defiler and Grand Poobah Azathoth Arcane.

Although I'm stuck on the East Coast, I'm very happy to see Karla LaVey doing things like Black Xmass. There was an element of fun to the early CoS which is sometimes forgotten: I'm glad to see people are still throwing Satanic parties and celebrating the carnal. (And I've also seen Karla interviewed a couple times and am confident that she can present a reasonable face to the public when asked the same stupid question for the fifty thousandth time... ).

So I think LaVey's legacy lives on and is going places which nobody (not even the Doctor) could have imagined. It will be interesting to see how things develop over the next couple decades.

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#75466 - 03/22/13 02:52 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: KenazFilan]
evilboy666 Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/29/12
Posts: 57
Loc: Texas
I respect what Lavey did a great deal .I'll never forget reading an interview he did in Look magazine about 1970. He seemed full of new things. Which is why the CoS might have run its course. I fail to see anything new comming out of ths CoS. As Satanism is ever evolving, that troubles me. It seems to me the CoS has a lot of resources,why be just a caretaker of a memory ?
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#75480 - 03/22/13 12:25 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: evilboy666]
KenazFilan Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 34
 Originally Posted By: evilboy666
I respect what Lavey did a great deal .I'll never forget reading an interview he did in Look magazine about 1970. He seemed full of new things. Which is why the COS might have run its course. I fail to see anything new comming out of ths COS. As satanism is ever evolving, that troubles me. It seems to me the COS has a lot of resources,why be just a caretaker of a memory ?


Don't underestimate that "caretaker of a memory" thing. Many embarrassing idiots (and a few damaged, dangerous criminals) have taken up the label "Satanist." We need somebody to engage with the media about why said idiots and criminals are not following Anton LaVey's philosophy. Sure, Satanism is evolving. But some have tried to "evolve" it into something which bears little or no resemblance to Anton LaVey's original vision. And it's good to have someone who can step up and defend that original vision. Brand dilution is a very real problem, especially when most of the counterfeits are so awful.

As far as the CoS running its course, every group is judged by its members. Lots of secret societies and esoteric orders in Victorian England offered the same "ancient knowledge" the Golden Dawn was peddling. The GD is remembered because it attracted achievers like Arthur Machen, Algernon Blackwood, Aleister Crowley, Sax Rohmer and W.B. Yeats. The same will hold for the Church of Satan and the various organizations which have sprung up post AS I. Those which attract talented and productive people will flourish and survive: the rest will be consigned to the dustbin of history. 'Twas ever thus.

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#76359 - 05/15/13 11:44 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: KenazFilan]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: KenazFilan
Personally, I think the Church of Satan functions most effectively when it acts as the Anton LaVey Appreciation Society ("Anton LaVey Fan Club" for those fond of less high-falutin' verbiage). Fan clubs are dedicated to the achievements of men and women: they are places where people can talk about their common interest. People go to the William S. Burroughs fan club to discuss his writing, not his marksmanship: they go to the Stravinsky Appreciation club to hear his chamber music, not sneer about his affair with that nubile young soprano. Fans can enjoy a movie or a musical without considering them "divinely inspired." And most importantly those who kill in the name of Bieber or Bach are reviled as obsessed maniacs, not honored as crusading warriors.


I believe you make a critical point here. I belong to a number of clubs and appreciation societies. Hell, I probably would for LaVey as well (I am not personally a satanist, but he did have enough impact to warrant such). As I see this particular debate reiterated, I sometimes wonder why this is not an operative structure. I know religious identification is serious business, but there are a lot of us out here who could not do this with LaVey. I wish to expand the reach of Burroughs, I join the club. The beats? I join the society. With LaVey, it would have ramifications for me which would not be intellectually honest. How does one move past this? For many, it just involves a slot in our bookshelves.

On a side note: Boyd Rice would have been a horrible HP of a Church. He was influential in early industrial music. I've also heard him speak. Errr no. He may as well go back to his claims of being a descendant of Jesus Christ. False pride doesn't cover that guy.
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Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

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#76365 - 05/15/13 02:02 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Le Deluge]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Compare this Boyd Rice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlkzf3EwXgA

To this Boyd Rice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsKbbIybtVM
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#76366 - 05/15/13 02:16 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Fist]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
He gets even sillier with age? Both are pretty lame. I tend to wonder why satanists even need a leader. I can't say this guy shows any acumen for such if they do.

Note also the complete inconsistency with Anton LaVey

"Indeed if he had any vices at all, I never saw them - unless collecting actresses' underwear counts. ;\) He was nonracist, nonsexist, polite & gallant. [I am still nonplussed about Diane's & Zeena's contentions of brutality in the 1980s court papers, because I never knew such a lovey-dovey couple, and Diane routinely henpecked the Great and Terrible Szandor in my presence.]"
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Michael A. Aquino

http://www.the600club.com/topic75995-3.html

Last time I checked, Dr. Aquino tends not to shy away from areas of disagreement with ASL.

PS: At any rate, the post regarding an appreciation society above is my primary interest. It seems a more sensible way to deal with an author posthumously.



Edited by Le Deluge (05/15/13 02:54 PM)
Edit Reason: PS
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#76371 - 05/16/13 03:42 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: KenazFilan]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
The Church of Satan as a fan club? That's perhaps the thing they've already become. The case wherein they have to (or feel obliged to) step up and talk/correct what Satanism really means according to their views is something I tend to shun. While true they make a more convincing case, it takes away a part of the antinomian "magic" it represents. The varieties of grand poobahs, magi, ladies,.. serve the function of expressing (in an albeit comical "missing the boat" kind of way) parts of the core meme. Gossipers of Satanism as you will.
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