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#43214 - 09/26/10 07:54 AM Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest.
OmegaWolf Offline
lurker


Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 1
http://boydrice.com/news.html


 Quote:
To whom it may concern,

As it is widely known, Anton Szandor LaVey repeatedly expressed his sincere desire to me that his mantle as leader of the Church of Satan pass to me upon his death. In his estimation, I was the sole person qualified to carry his tradition into a new era. At the time I demurred, explaining that I was a loner and not a team player or a people person.

Now I have changed my mind. After thirteen years of introspection, I have decided to step up to the plate and humbly accept the role bestowed upon me by my close friend and mentor. Why? Because remaining loyal to LaVey's spirit and memory has come at the cost of distancing myself from the organization perpetuating itself in his name.

At one time, the sycophants and functionaries at the forefront of the CoS may have been called apparatchiks or pencil pushers. Today they are bloggers, whose sole arena of combat is the internet. When they employ "satanic" ideals, it's in endless squabbles in cyberspace - rarely in real life or the real world. The LaVey I knew abhorred such types, and frequently told me as much.

I am told that many in the Church of Satan were offended by my book NO, and particularly by my essay on individuality; which they perceived as a potshot taken at them. How very perceptive - it was exactly that! If Anton were alive to read the text, he'd agree wholeheartedly; and laugh his ass off. He often lamented to me that his ideas vis-à-vis individualism were misguided and that he'd in effect "given birth to a monster"; or that such ideas applied to a few rare souls and not to everyone with the price of admission.

Consequently, my first official act as new leader and only truly ordained High Priest of the Church of Satan is to declare that the organization no longer exists. True LaVeyan Satanism only exists insofar as it is manifested in deeds - in life and living. Never in mere words. Elitism is self-defining, it is not a commodity that can be bought or sold for a few hundred dollars, or whatever the going rate is for a little, red membership card.

In the future, LaVey's ideas can only survive in so much as they constitute a living reality, and never as mere platitudes on the printed page or computer screen; and in the future, such ideas must be taken to the next level. They must be recognized as purely foundational. Not an end point, but a starting point. LaVey expressed as much to me when he appointed me Grand Master of The Order of the Trapezoid. Satanism is an initiation into the wisdom of materiality, and the trapezoid represents the mastering of materiality - the pyramid sans its keystone. It is a foundation and a beginning.

In closing, I know my words will find resonance only amongst a rare few. That's as it should be. I am not trying to "take over" the internet orthodoxy currently known as the Church of Satan, nor would I want to. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

I am simply telling you I am Anton LaVey's handpicked replacement as High Priest. Do with that what you will. I will not ask you for money. I will not send you newsletters or post blogs. But I will never steer you wrong, nor ever disgrace the memory of my dear friend and mentor, Anton Szandor LaVey. He lives within each soul that manifests his ideas and worldview. He will remain forever dead to those who are content to pay mere lip service to them. For the former, a new era awaits; for the latter, an old error remains in play. Let the dead bury the dead - life is for the living.

Boyd Rice
High Priest, Church of Satan
Grand Master, Order of the Trapezoid
H.S.d.



Rice declares himself High Priest, then subsequently disbands the Church of Satan.
Of course, this is not an "official" statement or disbandment; more of a rallying against the current state of the CoS. I am sure these sentiments echo those of many Satanists, who have chosen to disregard the current CoS. Rice has always been an interesting character, and one of the best representations of Satanism in my opinion, so it is interesting to hear his current stance of the CoS; a topic he has been silent on for many years (save for declaring that he basically has no involvement in it these days).

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#43215 - 09/26/10 09:24 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: OmegaWolf]
Asmedious Moderator Online
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
I here by declare myself Super Duper High Priest of the Church of Satan.

I will however accept your money, and adoration.

Thank you.

SDHP, Asmedious, CoS.

PS. No Vampires of any kind allowed in my tree house!!
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#43217 - 09/26/10 12:44 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: OmegaWolf]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
Boyd Rice is one of those people who doesn't shun away from pulling of a good joke. His September update might indeed echo the feeling of many people, at least active here at the 600 club, and if not then it echoes mine.

A nice jab, I'm quite sure bureaucrat Gilmore and his ass-kissing bunch will send out some sort of official letter which can be laughed with, yet again. I've always found Boyd Rice an interesting musician and a true Satanist. I'm aware not many agree with me at that point, but considering his achievements and walk of life I highly doubt anyone else would ever do the same.

A part of me now somehow wishes his becomming of HP was real and disbanding the CoS for reasons given and with power taken/finally accepted. Yet again, I doubt it would have taken an impact on my thinking and probably wouldn't give a flying fuck about it in the first place, which is actually still the case.
_________________________
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#43222 - 09/26/10 06:39 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: OmegaWolf]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
This is obviously a joke but what is written has some good foundation and I do agree with Mr. Rice. He echoes the thoughts of so many people Ive met who are just tired of hearing Gilmore and his parrots say the same thing over and over and never progress or actually do anything.

I do find it weird that he comes back to Satanism and the Church of Satan like this though. Ihad the feeling he had moved on from all this a long time ago.

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#43231 - 09/26/10 09:50 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: TheInsane]
Fnord Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
I don't read it as a joke.

Whether it is or isn't though doesn't change the fact that my already high opinion of Boyd Rice has creeped up yet another notch.

I dig the open letter... well played Mr. Rice.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#43241 - 09/27/10 02:27 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: OmegaWolf]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I have just gained a little respect for Rice, not much, but a little.

I would like to see Rice and Gilmore fight it out in a steel-cage match. I'm willing to bet that Petey would not come out on top.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#43244 - 09/27/10 02:43 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Wolflust Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 33
http://www.boydrice.com/gallery/friends_gallery/1990-13.html

Doesn`t seem like it would be a fair match really... \:D

Anyway, I enjoyed Boyd Rice`s statement, and just for the heck of it, it would be fun if this could provoke any reactions at the LttD-forum (Im unable to myself), because it seems filled with the people I think Rice so accurately described...
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#43251 - 09/27/10 04:09 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Wolflust]
Lamar Offline
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Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
Why on earth are Boyd and Gilmore with Bob Larson? Larson seems kind of nervous standing in between the two of them.
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#43253 - 09/27/10 04:42 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Prometheus9 Offline
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Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 37
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
I would like to see Rice and Gilmore fight it out in a steel-cage match. I'm willing to bet that Petey would not come out on top.


Given that Boyd has nearly a foot and a half on him easily, I know where to bet the money.

Not that I get off on watching middle aged men 'rassel...

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#43257 - 09/27/10 07:10 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Prometheus9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Not to get too far off topic but size only goes so far in a fight. It has been my experience that the old saying is true: the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

Gilmore just comes off as a pussy who couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag with a chainsaw and a stick of dynamite.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#43290 - 09/28/10 08:10 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Incendium Offline
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Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Knoxville, Tennessee
I'm gonna have to concur with Mr. Rice and everyone else. I hope it's not a joke, and I really hope Rice can provide proof. The CoS has done nothing in recent years to advance Satanism, and I find Peter Gilmore to be, as already said, a parrot reciting the same shit over and over. I'm tired of my belief system being represented by them. I'm sure all are aware of the ToV and it's involvement with the CoS. I just found out myself the other day, and I am fucking livid. Dr. LaVey is rolling over in his grave right now. Money hungry bastards, the lot of them. And I hate Gilmore's goddamned beard!

Sorry for the outburst. I've been unable to get that out for a couple of days. I was getting backed up. \:\)
_________________________
-Incendium-

"Unholy Satanist, child of perdition, ask not for absolution in the hour of death!"

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#43291 - 09/28/10 09:20 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Incendium]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
LaVey would probably be more pissed at Boyd Rice deciding to do something he was asked to do 13 years ago, when his acceptance would have meant something, and refused. Now he's suddenly decided that LaVey was right and that HE should be the rightful king... cui bono?

Where has Mr. Rice been for the past 13 years? Why have we heard virtually NOTHING from him since the death of Dr. LaVey? Who knows even if his vision of Satanism remains in synch or even compatible with that of LaVey?

What would make Rice even think that Dr. LaVey would still want him, having shown reluctance to take the reins of leadership when he was asked to? But now that, and let's face it... his career as an antiestablishment radical entertainer is no longer relevant... he is suddenly consumed by the Black Flame with passion to bring Satanism out of the doldrums of the current leadership's hands?

Having known LaVey personally, and I'm sure that even Dr. Aquino will agree... when LaVey gave you an opportunity, or asked your assistance once, if refused, a second opportunity was seldom if ever offered.

So cui bono is best and most easily answered by... Boyd Rice. But then, the logical questions are there as well... why now? Where the hell were you when the walls came tumbling in? Why are you even relevant today? Why should I FOLLOW YOU?

Of course, some people will follow anyone or anything. In this world of billions, it isn't news that you have a following. The real news is if you have an idea and NO ONE follows.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#43293 - 09/28/10 10:33 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2521
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Having known LaVey personally, and I'm sure that even Dr. Aquino will agree... when LaVey gave you an opportunity, or asked your assistance once, if refused, a second opportunity was seldom if ever offered.

Yes, I would agree, and indeed I think you've made a most insightful point here. On 9/20/71 Diane LaVey quoted to me a personal desk sign that Anton had just created for himself:

 Originally Posted By: ASLV
There are many who would take my time. I shun them.
There are many who would share my time. I tolerate them.
There are precious few who would contribute to my time. These I appreciate.

He empathized with those who acted with the courage of their convictions, even when he might disagree with those convictions. One can see this reflected in his admiration for Ayn Rand's heroes, narcissistic caricatures as they might be. Concerning the indecisive and passive, he perhaps summarized his sentiments best in the May-June 1971 Cloven Hoof. Referring to the well-known aphorism that “all the world’s a stage”, Anton pointed out that very few persons could qualify as bona-fide “actors” - that most are suited to being “spear-carriers” at the back of the stage, or even to being an attentive, appreciating audience. Attempting to leave the theatre is impossible, since there is no escape from the world-stage’s presentations:

 Originally Posted By: ASLV, “Million d’Arlequin, Vesti la Giubba, et al.”
Yes, the world is not simply a stage, but a theater; and it is a Barnum and Bailey world, just as phoney as it can be. Before it can become any more true, we’d all better damned well realize that. I like to think that Satanists do, more than others. It helps me keep the faith.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#43306 - 09/29/10 04:15 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



A good post. Your points are thought provoking and motivating as usual.

I like the level of realism, cynicism and humour Dr. LaVey possessed and the way he regarded people and their roles and motivations. I like the vision, the eyes, the perceptions of a carny as well.

LaVey must have enjoyed the company of some rather tough minded and interesting sorts of people over the years. Some unorthodox and challenging thinkers and doers I think.

I am interested in the way he made decisions regarding the type of people who were involved with him.

I don't know much about this Boyd Rice guy. Does it really matter all that much now? Jake said he was given a chance and he did not take it when LaVey offered it, so that's that. Why did Boyd Rice bring this up now?

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#43308 - 09/29/10 05:28 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Jake999]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Jake999

What would make Rice even think that Dr. LaVey would still want him, having shown reluctance to take the reins of leadership when he was asked to? But now that, and let's face it... his career as an antiestablishment radical entertainer is no longer relevant... he is suddenly consumed by the Black Flame with passion to bring Satanism out of the doldrums of the current leadership's hands?


This is exactly what I think Satanism needs to get away from. "Would LaVey still want him?" Seriously who cares? LaVey is dead and Satanism needs to move on. The problem with Peter Gilmore and his lackeys are that they constantly refer to the past and never produce anything new. Its always "LaVey said this" or "LaVey wrote that".

LaVey had a massive role in Satanism and I do not deny that - I respect him for that but the massive personality cult has to be left behind.

I do not care what LaVey would think of Mr. Rice doing this today in 2010 rather than in 1997. If Mr. Rice does decide to go further on with this and if its not just a temporary thing to get some attention I am all for it. And I hope, if he does create for himself an highly influential voice in the "Satanic community", that he does things to forward Satanism. To break free from the chains of, not necessarily LaVey and his writings, but of his lackeys and parrots.

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#43315 - 09/29/10 10:56 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Jake999]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Jake

After reading your and Aquino's responses I realized that I may have come across as flippant in my own response.

Obviously I don't have the history with the C/S that you have and my comment was only meant as an appreciation of a Satanist in the public eye shaking things up a bit over there.

Anyway, I meant no disrespect in my comment. Hope it wasn't read that way.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#43319 - 09/29/10 01:12 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: TheInsane]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
 Quote:
This is exactly what I think Satanism needs to get away from. "Would LaVey still want him?" Seriously who cares? LaVey is dead and Satanism needs to move on.

Yes Dr.LaVey has passed away and yes it is irrelevant to ask oneself "if LaVey still wanted him". But the questions as raised by Jake are legit and have also arisen in my mind. Why would Rice make a come-back on the mainstage when it comes to Satanism etc..

 Quote:
And I hope, if he does create for himself an highly influential voice in the "Satanic community", that he does things to forward Satanism. To break free from the chains of, not necessarily LaVey and his writings, but of his lackeys and parrots.

I doubt Rice would be capable of that. As far as I am concerned, Satanism has progressed with thanks to people like...me.. who recognized themselves in ASL's writings and who had the ability to come to their own conclusions and have their own views on things. The real individuals so to speak and not the self-proclaimed ones.

I also find Rice should be ashamed of himself for making a descision he should have made 13 years ago. I strongly belief in things as "honour" and "pride". His declining 13 years ago might have had a valid personal reason, but returning now and (if he is serious about it) claiming his position now sounds cowardish to me.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#43322 - 09/29/10 01:45 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Dimitri]
Incendium Offline
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Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Knoxville, Tennessee
The way I see things is someone has to take control over this beast. This crazy train known as the Church of Satan needs to have the brakes hit before it derails. The people in control are ridiculous morons with little to add to Dr. LaVey's teachings. The one thing I'm afraid of is not Gilmore himself, per se, but his successor: one who is very likely to be more incompetent than he is.

I'm not a member of the CoS and it doesn't effect me in that way, but I don't want shit-flinging baboons going on TV and making Satanists look like fools. The media is tailored for the masses as is, so we need a little more in the spot light than is, or could be. Perhaps Boyd Rice isn't the man for the job. I'm not too familiar with him, but at some point this will end up being treated like politics, the lesser of two evils. The douche bag or the shit sandwich.

As for personality cult, the Church does enough of that for us. Anyone who has visited LttD knows what I mean. A post is made by a person in the forum and if anyone above the level of "Active Member" finds the time to "grace them with their presence", everyone hops on their dick(s). "Good point, Reverend!" "Well played, Magister!" Ugh.

My esteem for Dr. LaVey I don't find to be worship. He is one of the few to ever truly represent us publicly, and he provided all of us with a flag to hang proudly. I hold him in very high regard, and I envy Jake, Mr. Rice, and Dr. Aquino to have known him. But I find consolation that if Hell does end up being a reality, I know I'll meet him there.
_________________________
-Incendium-

"Unholy Satanist, child of perdition, ask not for absolution in the hour of death!"

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#43324 - 09/29/10 02:07 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Dimitri]
TheInsane Offline
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
I agree with most of what you write Dimitri. Although I won't make any judgments on whether Boyd Rice has what it takes to make an impact. However to me he always seemed like one of those persons who might have recognized himself as a Satanist based on LaVeys foundational ideas but that always took it to another level. That is one thing the current CoS hasnt done at all really.

As far as Mr. Rice's descision in 1997 to not succeed Anton LaVey I do not know why he choose not to and thus I wont condemn or praise him for it. He probably had a valid reason.

With all this being said I think the approach is a good one. sometimes you have to destroy to build something new. Obviously Boyd Rice wont destroy the current incarnation of the CoS but if it is a step in the right direction for them to either change or turn to dust I am all for it.

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#43325 - 09/29/10 02:09 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Incendium]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
 Quote:
The way I see things is someone has to take control over this beast.

Why should it? The church at some point will hit the proverbial fan anyway. Its mere existance is almost in contradiction with the philosophy. In either way you turn it, it is a sinking ship.

 Quote:
I'm not a member of the CoS and it doesn't effect me in that way, but I don't want shit-flinging baboons going on TV and making Satanists look like fools.
Why should you care about it? If you think you know what it is about and distantiate yourself from that particular bunch... I know people and organizations who are far worse and claim to represent Satanism (JoS springs to mind). I call myself a Satanist and I know the image that the people have in mind is that of some deluded and hormon driven teenager or a person like the one from the shooting in Columbine high. Why should I care Gilmore and the CoS is the way it is now. They are at least doing a better job in comparisation with other, the lesser evil so to speak.
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#43326 - 09/29/10 02:36 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Dimitri]
Incendium Offline
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Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Knoxville, Tennessee
I suppose the only reason I do care is the superficial representation of the label I have for myself is portrayed by dumbasses. But you are correct, that if I just be the best I can be, then one day say "I am a Satanist and this is what Satanism has done for me... and no I'm not affiliated with those idiots in New York..." then I can accurately represent Satanism as a practitioner, not an organization. I know my hope for a turnaround is pretty naive, considering people will always corrupt shit others hold dear.

Oh damn, could you imagine the JoS being a public entity? I shudder at the thought.
_________________________
-Incendium-

"Unholy Satanist, child of perdition, ask not for absolution in the hour of death!"

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#43329 - 09/29/10 03:48 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Incendium]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
One could also ask, as I have often done, why so many idiots seems to be drawn to Satanism. Dont get me wrong there are some of the most intelligent and honest people involved in it as well but in general I tend to dislike most Satanists. And its not a matter of different beliefs in specific matters - I can easily appreciate a person who does not agree with me at all. Sure enough, all religions and the like attract stupid people but Satanism does seem to have more than its fair share of idiots in its ranks.

In some way it is annoying when idiots are the official face of the religion or philosophy you hold dearest to heart. Of course I would like the CoS to be a vibrand and positive organisation of intellectual people. It does bother me that it seems to be made up of goths and other people who like to dress up and who tries the hardest to learn TSB by memory so they can stick quotes up our asses if we disagree with them on even the slightest point.

Now its not like I lose any sleep over the matter. In fact I am so distanced from any "official Satanism movement" that I hardly identify with any of the official people representing Satanism. But of course I would prefer it if public Satanists actually tried to live do what they preach and be productive instead of dressing funny and accomplish nothing.

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#43336 - 09/29/10 10:46 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: OmegaWolf]
nocTifer Offline
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Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
OmegaWolf quotes http://boydrice.com/news.html and then writes
 Quote:
Of course, this is not an "official" statement or disbandment; more of a rallying against the current state of the COS.

what caused him to quit the CoS C9?

 Quote:
I am sure these sentiments echo those of many Satanists, who have chosen to disregard the current COS.

I suppose, but the rest of us weren't as heavily involved so as to be offered the dynastic mantle.

 Quote:
...it is interesting to hear his current stance of the COS; a topic he has been silent on for many years (save for declaring that he basically has no involvement in it these days).

does he say anywhere else why he's been so silent?
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#43359 - 09/30/10 02:38 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: TheInsane]
Wolflust Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 33
My take on why so many morons are drawn to (LaVeyan) Satanism, except its "shocking and mysterious" symbolism, is because it provides many people with a feeling of superiority.

The so-called rules and sins makes up standards for them on how to live (or rather jabber on a message board), and makes them feel like they can look down on all these people who "dont get it".

So since they agree with the contents laid forth in the Satanic Bible, they can feel like they are "elite".
_________________________
It is not my name or my number, its how I use it and what I do.

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#43362 - 09/30/10 04:23 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Jake999]
Prometheus9 Offline
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Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 37
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
LaVey would probably be more pissed at Boyd Rice deciding to do something he was asked to do 13 years ago, when his acceptance would have meant something, and refused. Now he's suddenly decided that LaVey was right and that HE should be the rightful king... cui bono?


Certainly something to consider.

 Quote:
Where has Mr. Rice been for the past 13 years? Why have we heard virtually NOTHING from him since the death of Dr. LaVey? Who knows even if his vision of Satanism remains in synch or even compatible with that of LaVey?


Considering that he's released three books and several other releases I think it is relatively easy to get a sense of where Mr. Rice has been the last 13 years. To say that you have heard nothing from his I can see but to think he's been in hiding for the last 13 years while appearing on TV shows, touring and doing Museum discussions is a sign of your lack of attention, not his lack of activity.

 Quote:
What would make Rice even think that Dr. LaVey would still want him, having shown reluctance to take the reins of leadership when he was asked to? But now that, and let's face it... his career as an antiestablishment radical entertainer is no longer relevant... he is suddenly consumed by the Black Flame with passion to bring Satanism out of the doldrums of the current leadership's hands?


Again, I think you characterization is off base. Mr. Rice, love him or hate him, is still as relevant as he's ever been and more productive in the last five years or so than probably in any other period of his career. He's even the subject of a film that is being shown at Cannes.

Which is a much better place to begin in the Cui Bono? investigation.

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#43364 - 09/30/10 04:44 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: nocTifer]
Prometheus9 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 37
 Originally Posted By: nocTifer

does he say anywhere else why he's been so silent?


If his past comments have been any indication it was mostly due to wishing Barton and the Gilmores the best, allowing them to continue to use his past association to their benefit and otherwise just getting out of the way of things.

His reasons for not taking up the organizational mantle were pretty simple as well. more than anything he seemed to not want his life taken over by another man's legacy nor the kind of responsibility that would go with trying to act as a leadership figure for a formal organization.

In the intervening years Barton and the Gilmores have alienated nearly everyone that had been close to LaVey towards the end of his life while trying to use those same names to promote their group. The increasingly Randoid tenor of Gilmore along with his elevation of his private D&D crew has essentially drained the vital force out of the Church of Satan name. While it has a certain museum quality to it those who were move moved by Anton may find this a rallying point.

The spirit of Rice's actions are relatively clear from his word

 Quote:

True LaVeyan Satanism only exists insofar as it is manifested in deeds - in life and living. Never in mere words. Elitism is self-defining, it is not a commodity that can be bought or sold for a few hundred dollars, or whatever the going rate is for a little, red membership card.

...

In the future, LaVey's ideas can only survive in so much as they constitute a living reality, and never as mere platitudes on the printed page or computer screen; and in the future, such ideas must be taken to the next level. They must be recognized as purely foundational.

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#43367 - 09/30/10 05:20 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Prometheus9]
Prometheus9 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 37
This, hands down, was Boyd rice's best contribution to Humanity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-YoY60BRsc&feature=player_embedded

Whoever decided to pair these two things together deserves all the real credit.

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#43368 - 09/30/10 05:28 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Prometheus9]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
I'm not that familiar with Rice either myself. Perhaps, I think it would be interesting and maybe a bit refreshing that he would step forward as the new High Priest. I can only agree with him that LaVey's works should be considered foundational, taken to the next level - manifested in reality and not in mere words or as shown on a computer screen. But, I can't say I'm 100% for the disbanding of the Church of Satan even though I strongly resent the image of a "Church." I think that the organization is indeed needed, not so much as a building but a cabal of like minded individuals. But on the other hand (or 3rd hand) I think that if people want to buy a membership to advance in the organization, I think I'd leave that be.

Edited by Lamar (09/30/10 05:30 PM)

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#43451 - 10/05/10 10:38 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Wolflust]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
All of that plus there is an element of rebellion (the non thinking kind).

Since so many raise their families in households with abrahamic religious traditions, I think a natural part of rebellion is to try to throw those chains off as well as the other household restrictions that are common in most families.

Since jesus is so meaningful to mom and dad maybe taking a swipe at that has its appeal to some, and perhaps they think that the ultimate act of defiance would be to attempt to embrace Satanism.

Some go on for years in their own bubble without realizing that what they are calling Satanism is anything but. Some come into contact with real Satanists who are much harsher judges of them than their parents ever tried to be and they either run away crying or they toughen up and represent.

The bottom line is that plenty of people identify with trying to look like a bad ass. The disconnect comes in when they realize that looking the part is incidental to actually BEING a bad ass which is the sole domain of the true Satanist.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#43459 - 10/05/10 09:50 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: TheInsane]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane
One could also ask, as I have often done, why so many idiots seems to be drawn to Satanism. Sure enough, all religions and the like attract stupid people but Satanism does seem to have more than its fair share of idiots in its ranks. It does bother me that it seems to be made up of goths and other people who like to dress up and who tries the hardest to learn TSB by memory so they can stick quotes up our asses if we disagree with them on even the slightest point.




It's a place for the "outsiders" to go and feel like they belong. They're the psuedo-Satanists. They think it's cool to be a Satanist since Satan has such a strong image and is considered the ultimate rebel. They want all the accoutrements but don't want to bother learning the actual philosophy behind it. They read TSB and stop at that. They don't realize how deep and involved Satanism really is and don't want to bother learning. They read in TSB that they're elite and walk around thinking that. But they're really the sheep.
_________________________
"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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#43473 - 10/06/10 10:58 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: TheInsane]
SubtleSatanist Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 12
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Interesting...

I've seen a few videos of Boyd Rice on Youtube, but other than that, I know very little about him. I'm currently in my first year of university and the workload is very heavy. What's the best way to learn more about him without too much of a time commitment? Anything I should know about him that I might not figure by browsing his site, wikipedia, etc? To be honest... I really like Gilmore. I would love it if you guys could explain to me what you have against him and the CoS as a whole. So far I'm pretty one-sided on the issue... I think Gilmore's a champ lol. I hate to spam on this site, but if you agree - please join me if you have facebook and feel free to look at the discussions I've had on other forums listed here: ( http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=6...146593638717799 )
_________________________
Veritas > Unitas > Caritas.

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#43474 - 10/06/10 11:21 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: SubtleSatanist]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
To be honest I havent read much by Mr. Rice himself and he might be a little bit to heavy into the shock tactics for my personal taste but at least he dares to develop and dares to progress. I have previously discussed why I dislike the CoS so I dont think there is any need for me to repeat myself.

As for a fun, although at times annoying, introduction to Boyd Rice I would recomend the mp3's of when he was a guest on Bob larsons radio show "talk back". Its obviously not the best introduction if you want explenations behind statements and more substance but it is great fun to listen to if you have some time over (like if you commute to work or something). Can be found here:

http://www.boydrice.com/downloads.html



Edited by TheInsane (10/06/10 11:26 AM)
Edit Reason: Inserted a link.

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#43482 - 10/06/10 07:10 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: SubtleSatanist]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You might want to read these links listed in this message/thread in regards to the CoS/Gilmore.

http://www.the600club.com/dir/ubbthreads...=true#Post38246


Oh, and if you post on LTTD and tell them you are a member and post here, odds are you will be banned from LTTD within a few days.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#43490 - 10/07/10 12:22 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: SubtleSatanist]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I have nothing against The Church of Satan, that organization simply isn't for me. Gilmore, on the other hand, just comes off as a douche-bag weasel. What really sealed the deal was his essay about "Satanic Communities" as it was full of bullshit condescension and hypocrisy.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#43493 - 10/07/10 03:06 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: OmegaWolf]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2521
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
This is nothing new. Back during the original Church there was a constant parade of copycats and pretenders; and the Temple of Set has seen plenty of them too. Anton LaVey's attitude was very simple: "Go ahead." Meaning, of course, that anyone can make a speech, but what counts is the work you put into your idea, the interest it holds for others, and the extent to which your collective efforts amount to something substantial & durable.

The Church of Satan didn't happen because Anton spontaneously jumped up on a rock, proclaimed himself High Priest of Satan, and expected/got instant adulation. It was a long, slow process of personal education & experience developing into a unique philosophy & lifestyle, then informal [as the "Magic Circle"] sharing with interested friends, and only consequently consensus to formalize the experience into the Church. I'm reminded of Miles Davis: “I'll play it first and tell you what it is later.”
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#43494 - 10/07/10 03:44 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Morgan]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
You might want to read these links listed in this message/thread in regards to the CoS/Gilmore.

http://www.the600club.com/dir/ubbthreads...=true#Post38246


Oh, and if you post on LTTD and tell them you are a member and post here, odds are you will be banned from LTTD within a few days.

Morgan


Are you serious? A Church of Satan member on LTTD would get banned there for posting here? What? That is the most ridiculous think I've ever heard. Why would they get banned?

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#43496 - 10/07/10 03:59 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Lamar]
Prometheus9 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 37
My favorite Boyd Rice tv moment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j52755BoAb4

You'll also see Nick Bougas, director of "Speak of the Devil" who did a song for LaVey's "Satan Takes a Holiday."

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#43499 - 10/07/10 04:44 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Lamar]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"Are you serious? A Church of Satan member on LTTD would get banned there for posting here? What? That is the most ridiculous think I've ever heard. Why would they get banned?"

You are young, wait and see. It has happened before, and it will happen again.

Go ahead, ask them about it. lol

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#43501 - 10/07/10 05:30 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Lamar]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Lamar

Are you serious? A Church of Satan member on LTTD would get banned there for posting here? What? That is the most ridiculous think I've ever heard. Why would they get banned?


Well the LTTD people have their heads so far up their own asses or up the elite CoS members asses that they cant tolerate critique, discussion or progressive thinking. No wonder their forum pretty much never has any fruitful discussion.

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#43502 - 10/07/10 05:53 PM Marketing 101 [Re: Lamar]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Originally Posted By: Lamar
That is the most ridiculous think I've ever heard. Why would they get banned?


For "diluting the brand". It may be helpful to review some basic business realities.

But first, don't misunderstand, there are people who post both here and there and take responsibility for never letting it turn into an issue, who seem to get along just fine. Some. But the CoS have a really low tolerance for what constitutes an issue, due to their volume. As the official internet blood-gutter for the FSC, this site is in direct competition with Lttd, and that's an issue that has to be handled sensitively and respectfully.

 Originally Posted By: Jimmy Conway
I'm not mad, I'm proud of you. You took your first pinch like a man and you learned two great things in your life. Look at me: never rat out your friends; and always keep your mouth shut.


So anyway, back during the SRA hoaxes, when people at or near the top of a limited number of sects were traveling around arguing against a common threat, there was more room for cross-pollination. Now that things are easier, and we have degenerated further into polydenominalism, our own main serious threat is just "each other". When Pat Robertson says one of us sucks, anyone whose opinion we care about either already knows what's up or else he's just given us a free commercial. The only people who believe him are already off our list. But if Karla LaVey criticizes me, there's a damn good chance I really do suck.

Just imagine, Colonel, that you own a crappy chicken joint that has a monopoly on the second tier of fast food in your area. When that fat guy with the redhead daughter you trusted to run your kitchen sets up a deluxe burger joint across the street from you and your profits go down a sizeable chunk, you aren't going to like him. There you are, working your own kitchen AND not going to Maui this year. It's not that his burgers don't taste great, they DO; they ought to, they are coated with the same delicious sugar that was in your "secret recipe". It's just that People Who Fuck Up My Shit Suck Butt.

Now imagine one of your peon employees is sitting in your breakroom talking about how great the burgers are and how they eat them all the time. That's really obviously just intended as an insult, isn't it. Oh, you might have enough composure not to fire them right then for that. So maybe what you do is, just rigidly enforce your literacy standards for that particular brother. Maybe out of all the people who didn't wash their special shirt today, he's the one who keeps getting caught. Maybe you pick a fight with him and he storms out on his own. But one way or another, you would understandably rather not have him there.

 Originally Posted By: Anton Szandor LaVey
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s home, show them respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your home annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.


From my imperfect viewpoint, the top competitors for the attention of the budding auto-theist are CoS and FSC, with TOS in third place but systematically picking away at the brainiacs. And it's no good saying the Setians are "so different", because the CoS/TOV thing is extremely damned different now too.

If you want to see specific implementations of some some of Dr. LaVey's late-period ideas, Peter Gilmore's group are right there at the cutting edge, outweirding weird. If you want the vintage stuff featured in good books and practiced by real celebrities since 1966, right here where you are is the place to have the conversation.

In a forum with reasonable standards of free speech like the 600 Club, it's possible for a variety of viewpoints to meet and share pamphlets with one another and see what's going on. There's still a strong tendency to deal with pods that walk in talking shit immediately and severely, though. It's for our own good, and there's no point gawking at it.

But the CoS can't afford to be that reasonable. They could seriously spend all day trying to be reasonable and never get anything done. They are in real danger of not getting anything done while being unreasonable all damn day. But what there is time to do, is notice someone apparently trolling, and press the "flush" button.

So if Boyd Rice were to really set up his own little RCOS or LDS it would probably be pretty weird. Odds are good that it would splinter or fizz out, but if it didn't, it could end up being something worth talking about. I suppose.

But that isn't what he's doing, this is performance art. He's challenging the "direct dispensation from the doktor" magic that they use to trumpet their legitimacy by symbolically taking precedence in that area. The only way it is going to be effective is if it gets some reiterative press. If people doing journalism point out at the end of their misinformed conglomerations that the post-LaVey CoS was eventually dissolved by Boyd Rice in favor of a vampire-free series of real-life accomplishments, well; that will be as funny as the Sammy Davis Jr. days, now won't it?
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#43538 - 10/10/10 01:02 AM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: Aklo]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Well at the very least it is good to see Boyd Rice 'back.' Of course, only time will tell if Rice has found some new energy or if this is just some sort of new internet spasm.

I have always been a Boyd Rice fan but he has been pretty out of my field of view over the last few years. Then, I saw a very tragic interview of him at the Strand book store in NYC. I was a little horrified to see just how bad he looked.

However, he seems to be doing much better now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXxC47uH06I&feature=related

So perhaps he is re-energized and ready for the next big thing. I can only hope that this is the face of things to come.

I 'get' Boyd Rice the same way I 'get' Charles Manson. Either you are operating on that stream of consciousness or you are not.

I keep trying to get Boyd Rice to join our little club. He comes to Philly a lot and with any luck I can talk to him face to face.

Next, I need to convince Jim Goad to post in here.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#43724 - 10/20/10 06:34 PM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: Fist]
Gueheriet Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 23
I saw him playing in London a couple years ago and he looked fine, the show was great and quite energetic in fact.
About his statement I also hope him to follow on this direction and would like to point that the CoS and people related to it have been using Rice´s image for their own benefits during a long time, they were even selling clothing with wolfsangels and crosses of Lorraine a year or two ago. I think this use of his image, I´d really call it misappropiation, is a pretty good reason for a rant or even two.

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#43749 - 10/22/10 01:39 PM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: Gueheriet]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
they were even selling clothing with wolfsangels and crosses of Lorraine a year or two ago. I think this use of his image, I´d really call it misappropiation, is a pretty good reason for a rant or even two.


*one liner override*

Implying that Rice has a monopoly on the right to use those symbols.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#43754 - 10/22/10 07:30 PM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Gueheriet Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 23
Of course he has not any monopoly over them but those symbols are closely associated to him in certain circles and the designs of those shirts was very similar to officially licensed Boyd Rice/NoN merch.
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#43755 - 10/22/10 08:07 PM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: Gueheriet]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Hell... the Free French had call on the Cross of Lorraine long ago. They bought their rights to it with their blood.

The American 79th Infantry Division was nicknamed the "Cross of Lorraine" Division; its insignia is the cross. Ironically, in World War II, the German 79th Infantry Division used the cross as its insignia because its first attack was in the Lorraine region.

The Cross of Lorraine was used by the original Knights Templar, with the permission of the Patriarch of Jerusalem.

Thomas Magnum (Magnum PI) and his Vietnam War cronies wore a Cross of Lorraine ring on the TV program Magnum PI.


The American Lung Association's been using it since I was a kid... and that's 6 decades at least. They go back to 1904.

Several churches and religious orders use the Cross of Lorraine.

OK... and also, in Hermeticism, the Cross of Lorraine is used to indicate "as above, so below," a familar theme with LaVey's philosophies on the Church of Satan. In all the time I was at the Black House, I never saw one in use or in storage. Could have been one SOMEPLACE, but if it had been that important in symbology, LaVey would have had it where it could be seen, and I was there long before Boyd Rice. I've never heard of it's great importance from anyone else that was there before me...

Sooooooooooo, I would say that it's a symbol whose usage has long, long been in the public domain.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#43756 - 10/22/10 08:18 PM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: Jake999]
Gueheriet Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 23
And it´s commonly used by catholics from Spain who also call it Cross of Carabaca...

I´m not saying he owns any rights over those symbols, BUT making gear using those symbols that looks pretty similar to Boyd Rice/Non´s merch that contains those symbols and selling that gear in some subcultural circles where those symbols are closely associated with Boyd Rice/Non is not exactly what I would call fair play and in some ways it´s using Boyd Rice´s image on other´s people benefit.

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#43761 - 10/22/10 09:16 PM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: Gueheriet]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
not exactly what I would call fair play and in some ways it´s using Boyd Rice´s image on other´s people benefit.


So? What do you care? And as far as "fairness" is concerned, well, if you are in it to win it you can not afford to be concerned with things like what is or isn't fair.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#44800 - 12/09/10 07:56 PM Re: Marketing 101 [Re: Aklo]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Originally Posted By: this reporter
The only way it is going to be effective is if it gets some reiterative press. If people doing journalism point out at the end of their misinformed conglomerations that the post-LaVey COS was eventually dissolved by Boyd Rice in favor of a vampire-free series of real-life accomplishments, well; that will be as funny as the Sammy Davis Jr. days, now won't it?


Just as a side note to my comments about journalistic leverage, here is something the world says about Karla and the FSC

 Quote:
Born 195210. Daughter of Anton LaVey and Carole Lansing. Eldest daughter of LaVey3. Created and ran the independant short lived First Satanic Church for a while in the late 1990s.

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/people.html

We all know this isn't so. We see various events from time to time, some of the people here attend them. Anyone who does a lick of research knows it isn't so. But that isn't relevant, some people just take what they are told and repeat it.

The more independent copies of the Boyd Rice story the web sees, the more times it gets linked to, the more fun it will generate.
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#75372 - 03/13/13 06:21 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: TheInsane]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
Well said. This constant falling back on ' what would LaVey have done ' or ' what would have LaVey thought is irrelevant at this point.

Clearly Boyd Rice was poking fun at the current state of the Church of Satan. And I agree with Mr. Rice sentiments. I appreciate the humor in his statement.Although there might be a thread of butthurt in it.Who knows? Not I. I do not know Mr. Rice personally.

I do agree that Satanism 'evolves'. For better or for worse. What may have worked 40-50 years ago may not work today.
_________________________
http://satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

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#75373 - 03/13/13 10:18 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Zach_Black]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Zach_Black

I do agree that Satanism 'evolves'. For better or for worse. What may have worked 40-50 years ago may not work today.


I'm not sure I agree with this. I think people evolve in their understanding of Satanism and perhaps do new and/or different things with it (as time/technology/etc allows) but the basic tenets remain the same.

In my opinion this is why books like The Satanic Bible (among many others) remain relevant (and applicable) despite the passage of years.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#75378 - 03/15/13 12:01 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Zach_Black]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: Zach_Black


I do agree that Satanism 'evolves'. For better or for worse. What may have worked 40-50 years ago may not work today.





It has to on some level. I never knew Mr. LaVey, but one can see demonstrable changes in his text published in the 90s from that of the 60s. Further, he didn't consider himself the last word on the subject. Given he's a bit dead, he has nothing further to say. It may be more a matter of changes in *specific* individuals, but it is still an evolution of sorts. I don't think much remains the same (beyond our mutual insomnia).

Can't speak to Rice's intent. I think he's poking fun at specific individuals.
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

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#75379 - 03/15/13 12:12 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Fnord]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
 Originally Posted By: Zach_Black

I do agree that Satanism 'evolves'. For better or for worse. What may have worked 40-50 years ago may not work today.


I'm not sure I agree with this. I think people evolve in their understanding of Satanism and perhaps do new and/or different things with it (as time/technology/etc allows) but the basic tenets remain the same.

In my opinion this is why books like The Satanic Bible (among many others) remain relevant (and applicable) despite the passage of years.


This is true if the context is specific to LaVey. You would have to accept the tenets as *he* defined them as being as *the* tenets of Satanism. Some will. Some won't. Some will draw inspiration from him and create their own tenets. Some will disregard him entirely. They may still come to similar conclusions as to the meaning of Satanism.
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

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#75381 - 03/15/13 03:31 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Le Deluge]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
There has been changes in the landscape and BR's open letter did illustrate a change has occured. The change itself having to do with a shift from a central informational nexus (and various smaller affilations) towards small independant groups.
This makes the CoS an obsolete entity as being the main progressive drive behind it all.

It could be said the era of Satanism as it should be has started


Edited by Dimitri (03/15/13 03:34 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#75461 - 03/21/13 10:31 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Dimitri]
KenazFilan Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 34
If Boyd Rice can surround himself with this generation's Jayne Mansfields and Sammy Davis Jrs. and write new material which is as popular and influential as The Satanic Bible, more power to him. He obviously has a vision for what the Church of Satan should be and should do: let's see how he puts that vision into practice.

Personally, I think the Church of Satan functions most effectively when it acts as the Anton LaVey Appreciation Society ("Anton LaVey Fan Club" for those fond of less high-falutin' verbiage). Fan clubs are dedicated to the achievements of men and women: they are places where people can talk about their common interest. People go to the William S. Burroughs fan club to discuss his writing, not his marksmanship: they go to the Stravinsky Appreciation club to hear his chamber music, not sneer about his affair with that nubile young soprano. Fans can enjoy a movie or a musical without considering them "divinely inspired." And most importantly those who kill in the name of Bieber or Bach are reviled as obsessed maniacs, not honored as crusading warriors.

Because it is impossible to copyright the word "Satanism" any idiot who wants to run with the term and create their own "Satanick Grotto of Eternel Evel" or "Worldwide Order of Satanist's" can do so. And most of those idiots are happy to jump in front of a microphone to explain what Satanism REALLY is. And this is another place where the Church of Satan comes in handy. Whether or not you like Peter Gilmore and Peggy Nadramia, they come across in interviews as sane, intelligent and well-spoken people. If we must have a media representative, they come across WAY better than Lord Gorgoroth the Defiler and Grand Poobah Azathoth Arcane.

Although I'm stuck on the East Coast, I'm very happy to see Karla LaVey doing things like Black Xmass. There was an element of fun to the early CoS which is sometimes forgotten: I'm glad to see people are still throwing Satanic parties and celebrating the carnal. (And I've also seen Karla interviewed a couple times and am confident that she can present a reasonable face to the public when asked the same stupid question for the fifty thousandth time... ).

So I think LaVey's legacy lives on and is going places which nobody (not even the Doctor) could have imagined. It will be interesting to see how things develop over the next couple decades.

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#75466 - 03/22/13 02:52 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: KenazFilan]
evilboy666 Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/29/12
Posts: 57
Loc: Texas
I respect what Lavey did a great deal .I'll never forget reading an interview he did in Look magazine about 1970. He seemed full of new things. Which is why the CoS might have run its course. I fail to see anything new comming out of ths CoS. As Satanism is ever evolving, that troubles me. It seems to me the CoS has a lot of resources,why be just a caretaker of a memory ?
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#75480 - 03/22/13 12:25 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: evilboy666]
KenazFilan Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 34
 Originally Posted By: evilboy666
I respect what Lavey did a great deal .I'll never forget reading an interview he did in Look magazine about 1970. He seemed full of new things. Which is why the COS might have run its course. I fail to see anything new comming out of ths COS. As satanism is ever evolving, that troubles me. It seems to me the COS has a lot of resources,why be just a caretaker of a memory ?


Don't underestimate that "caretaker of a memory" thing. Many embarrassing idiots (and a few damaged, dangerous criminals) have taken up the label "Satanist." We need somebody to engage with the media about why said idiots and criminals are not following Anton LaVey's philosophy. Sure, Satanism is evolving. But some have tried to "evolve" it into something which bears little or no resemblance to Anton LaVey's original vision. And it's good to have someone who can step up and defend that original vision. Brand dilution is a very real problem, especially when most of the counterfeits are so awful.

As far as the CoS running its course, every group is judged by its members. Lots of secret societies and esoteric orders in Victorian England offered the same "ancient knowledge" the Golden Dawn was peddling. The GD is remembered because it attracted achievers like Arthur Machen, Algernon Blackwood, Aleister Crowley, Sax Rohmer and W.B. Yeats. The same will hold for the Church of Satan and the various organizations which have sprung up post AS I. Those which attract talented and productive people will flourish and survive: the rest will be consigned to the dustbin of history. 'Twas ever thus.

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#76359 - 05/15/13 11:44 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: KenazFilan]
Le Deluge Offline
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Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: KenazFilan
Personally, I think the Church of Satan functions most effectively when it acts as the Anton LaVey Appreciation Society ("Anton LaVey Fan Club" for those fond of less high-falutin' verbiage). Fan clubs are dedicated to the achievements of men and women: they are places where people can talk about their common interest. People go to the William S. Burroughs fan club to discuss his writing, not his marksmanship: they go to the Stravinsky Appreciation club to hear his chamber music, not sneer about his affair with that nubile young soprano. Fans can enjoy a movie or a musical without considering them "divinely inspired." And most importantly those who kill in the name of Bieber or Bach are reviled as obsessed maniacs, not honored as crusading warriors.


I believe you make a critical point here. I belong to a number of clubs and appreciation societies. Hell, I probably would for LaVey as well (I am not personally a satanist, but he did have enough impact to warrant such). As I see this particular debate reiterated, I sometimes wonder why this is not an operative structure. I know religious identification is serious business, but there are a lot of us out here who could not do this with LaVey. I wish to expand the reach of Burroughs, I join the club. The beats? I join the society. With LaVey, it would have ramifications for me which would not be intellectually honest. How does one move past this? For many, it just involves a slot in our bookshelves.

On a side note: Boyd Rice would have been a horrible HP of a Church. He was influential in early industrial music. I've also heard him speak. Errr no. He may as well go back to his claims of being a descendant of Jesus Christ. False pride doesn't cover that guy.
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#76365 - 05/15/13 02:02 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Le Deluge]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Compare this Boyd Rice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlkzf3EwXgA

To this Boyd Rice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsKbbIybtVM
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#76366 - 05/15/13 02:16 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Fist]
Le Deluge Offline
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Registered: 08/05/12
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He gets even sillier with age? Both are pretty lame. I tend to wonder why satanists even need a leader. I can't say this guy shows any acumen for such if they do.

Note also the complete inconsistency with Anton LaVey

"Indeed if he had any vices at all, I never saw them - unless collecting actresses' underwear counts. ;\) He was nonracist, nonsexist, polite & gallant. [I am still nonplussed about Diane's & Zeena's contentions of brutality in the 1980s court papers, because I never knew such a lovey-dovey couple, and Diane routinely henpecked the Great and Terrible Szandor in my presence.]"
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Last time I checked, Dr. Aquino tends not to shy away from areas of disagreement with ASL.

PS: At any rate, the post regarding an appreciation society above is my primary interest. It seems a more sensible way to deal with an author posthumously.



Edited by Le Deluge (05/15/13 02:54 PM)
Edit Reason: PS
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#76371 - 05/16/13 03:42 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: KenazFilan]
Dimitri Offline
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The Church of Satan as a fan club? That's perhaps the thing they've already become. The case wherein they have to (or feel obliged to) step up and talk/correct what Satanism really means according to their views is something I tend to shun. While true they make a more convincing case, it takes away a part of the antinomian "magic" it represents. The varieties of grand poobahs, magi, ladies,.. serve the function of expressing (in an albeit comical "missing the boat" kind of way) parts of the core meme. Gossipers of Satanism as you will.
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#83879 - 01/09/14 12:38 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Dimitri]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Personally I think in practice Satanism, or the satanic is best exemplified by those who amused themselves by such world-shaping pursuits as “people fishing” (hooking a $5.00 bill to a fishing line, leaving it in front of a store, hiding behind a bush and waiting for the hilarity to ensue which is DEFINITELY as funny as it seems in cartoons and even more so because it actually fucking works! they WILL chase that dollar!)… we actually used to call it “jackassing” or “jackassery” which was the catch-all-coined-term for stupid-yet-highly-amusing-shenanigins a few years before Jackass was a thing – not that it matters who did what first – I like to think of it more along the lines of a “current” – prankery is part of human nature (at least for some "outstanding individuals") While only some people “get it” fewer still become successful at it… but it is something we relatively hairless apes have been doing since the dawn of time.

It’s a huge and oft overlooked part of what individuates mankind from societal restraints. In this posting Rice seems to just “get it” – whereas as of late all I’m hearing is “words words words”… which is fine in and of itself – some people enjoy writing; can’t fault that.

True, the satanic is in the "doing" but it gets even weirder when these people writing about "doing" are talking such stark "doings" as culling, starting a new world order, taking down a new religion like fuck! would it kill you to smile? What was the phrase? "Big thinks"(?)

 Quote:
Gossipers of Satanism as you will.
is pretty much what it is in the cyber-world. Sure, I’ll bet there’s a site or two set up to perhaps fuck with people floating around out there… but it’s the cyber world… incredibly limited by way of available material.

To do anything significantly amusing on-line, you’d sort have to put your grimoires aside and start digesting phrack.org (awesome reads by the way)... but probably darker magic than most are conversant with.

Here all we can do is type, and that’s where it falls flat.
Everyone has a book; most of these books are actually pretty decent… but so far as I can tell they were only written because the author enjoys writing and *might* make some extra cash off of those who in turn enjoy reading. *or worse... feel the need to read something to be a part of something

eSatanism (and I do not say this derisively) is basically a writers guild. Its sphere of influence is limited in that way. It is an interesting sphere, but it is not the be all end all.

It is a dimension where butt-hurt prevails and whoopee cushions work about as well as a sphere in flat-land.


Edited by antikarmatomic (01/09/14 01:04 AM)
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#101962 - 07/31/15 05:56 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: antikarmatomic]
Lightseeker Offline
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 23
Please forgive this short post, but I was wondering if Boyd Rice ever followed up on his announcement of being the new High Priest? I read his news quite regularly because I like his music, but I'm not aware of him addressing the topic of his High Priesthood anymore?
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#101967 - 07/31/15 08:10 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Lightseeker]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
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Because his only "action" was a symbolic declaration that the CoS as an organization was dead and redundant--intended mostly to clarify his disillusionment with organized Satanism, and to piss off the existing Church of Satan hierarchy in New York who insist everything's fine and dandy and they are faithfully and successfully carrying on LaVey's legacy?

Edited by The Zebu (07/31/15 08:12 PM)
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#101968 - 07/31/15 08:38 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: The Zebu]
MReynolds Offline
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What? Boyd Rice wasn't serious? ..wait, um. Shit, that Gilmore dude is still in charge of shit? Fuck. \:\(

Nah, Rice was just having fun dude @ Lightseeker. You have to read it a certain way is all. Read it like you'd imagine Boyd would choose to write it. \:\)


Edited by MReynolds (07/31/15 08:40 PM)
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#101977 - 08/01/15 02:50 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: OmegaWolf]
Pepe Offline
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Registered: 07/21/15
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I have always seen Peter H. Gilmore as a perfectly sane person. Sane and safe. That's how most people see him, I guess. And that's why some people don't like him, I guess. He gives the impression of calm Waters, instead of a raging storm.

What kind of impression Boyd Rice gives depends on his mood. He's unpredictable. Always has been. That's exactly why people like him.

People still miss LaVey's eccentric personality, and I do understand that, but... if eccentricity is what you want, really, would even Boyd Rice be enough.

To me, CoS IS ASL. A fan club? Well, why not. You can't REINVENT it, anyway. And, if you see the Church of Satan of today like I do, why NOT Peter H. Gilmore, then...?

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#101979 - 08/01/15 03:19 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Pepe]
mountaingoat Offline
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Peter Gilmore gives the impression of a CEO of a failing corporation who tries to have fun at the company Halloween party, but just gets upset that other people are having fun independently of him. Then, everyone makes fun of him behind his back, especially when he comes to the office on Monday still in his costume and still trying to be the "fun boss."
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#101980 - 08/01/15 04:27 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: mountaingoat]
Pepe Offline
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Registered: 07/21/15
Posts: 9
CoS wasn't a new thing anymore when I first heard about it, back in the eighties, but... it was a different world, really. Before the internet, before the black metal music, before the "mainstream Satanism".

Young people today see the CoS in a very different light. To them, it's an old institution, an old tradition, just... old. The foundation stone. AND that's the way they WANT it! They don't expect anything NEW from the CoS. They see Gilmore as a wise old man who knows something they don't. And, really, why wouldn't they.

Funny, maybe, but I think it's a bit like me watching the movie "Bride of Frankenstein" when I was a kid. It was a movie made more than 30 years before I was born, and THAT exactly was the magic of it to me...

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#101996 - 08/02/15 10:53 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Pepe]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: PE
I have always seen Peter H. Gilmore as a perfectly sane person. Sane and safe. That's how most people see him, I guess. And that's why some people don't like him, I guess. He gives the impression of calm Waters, instead of a raging storm.


He does seem to give that impression, but I don't actually know the guy. It has occurred to me, however, that "the devil is a gentlemen" could very well be at-play here. It's still the devil, though. Bear in mind too, we're living in an age where the line between "radicalism" and "terrorism" is becoming increasingly blurred - it would make sense, in the name of "rational self interest" to put on an innocuous front while leaving it to those who grok the essence to read between the lines.

For instance, while the C/S doesn't condone illegal activity of any sort, they didn't go quite so far as to explicitly state that they condemn it, either (it has been mentioned that they will excommunicate you, if caught - which is something I see as a CYA [cover your ass] impetus).

I'd say that's a pretty smart business move on their part; regardless of if it disappoints those types who are looking for something explicitly bad-ass.

It is entirely possible that they are pissing on people's boots while doing an excellent job of convincing them that it is raining...

... but I wouldn't know. The C/S - it's just not my bag. Subsequently I couldn't possibly care less if it sinks or swims, much less who is in charge of it.

What I do know is that often times things just aren't as they appear; and with good reason.


Edited by antikarmatomic (08/02/15 10:56 AM)
Edit Reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2gdbQpESNY
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#102000 - 08/02/15 04:01 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: antikarmatomic]
Pepe Offline
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Registered: 07/21/15
Posts: 9
Gilmore, of course, IS a gentleman. LaVey was a gentleman.

The problem here seems to be, whereas LaVey could be what he wanted to be, Gilmore CAN only be a gentleman. Some problem.

I remember when I was a rebellious teenager and my mother saw a picture of Anton LaVey in my room. She was shocked. Really. "Who is THAT? He looks so EVIL!" Yes. LaVey could look evil, easily, when he wanted to. And Gilmore always looks like a nice old man. And that, to some people, is a sacrilege. But. Times change.

Gilmore can't be a black metal artist. He can't burn churches and go to jail. And even if he could, the kids of today would have seen it all before.

You're a guitarist? Then you know who's Jimmy Page. Alright. What has Page done since 1979. Right. He has kept Led Zeppelin alive. Zeppelin is STILL a hugely popular band. Now, the way I see it, that's exactly what Gilmore is doing with the CoS: He's keeping it alive. New songs? Who needs any new songs when the old ones still sound so good.

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#102003 - 08/02/15 11:59 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: Pepe]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: PE
You're a guitarist? Then you know who's Jimmy Page.
I have a huge hang-up regarding ists and isms - call it a quirk. I do play guitar, though, yes.

Generally speaking, I don't really have an opinion regarding things I am not involved with.

It's not too unlike how when I go grocery shopping, I'll pass a wall that has pictures on it reading something like "Mike Smith - General manager" and I'll think "ok, apparently that guy runs this store now... 'not sure why we all need to know that, and he does kinda look like a d-bag; but whatever, I'm just here to do some grocery shopping"

 Originally Posted By: PE
He's keeping it alive. New songs? Who needs any new songs when the old ones still sound so good.
'not a bad analogy at all, and a point worth considering...

It is possible that those just new to the concepts are looking for a new messiah, or the "next", and are disappointed to learn that when you get down to the bare wiring, what they are looking for really can't be expanded upon any better than it already has been. Who knows?

Even if Led came out with new songs, I have serious apprehensions that they'd manage to capture that "vibe". Creative waves crest and then crash - roll back out to sea and facilitate new waves.

Same deal - if that makes any amount of sense.


Edited by antikarmatomic (08/03/15 12:00 AM)
Edit Reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqwKatmKIoY
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#102062 - 08/05/15 01:24 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: antikarmatomic]
Ariavolos Offline
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Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 33
Boyd Rice and his works are the thing that originally brought me into this practice. I've always had as much, if not more respect for his apprehension of this type of Satanism as LaVey. His work has continued to provide many bridges over the gaps that exist between the traditions. His regard for Neofascism in particular has been influential beyond comparison, as I feel his political chic allowed many extra martial qualities to be introduced into the practice, or at least accented when and if they had been present.

I have nothing bad to say about him. He's continually living a life of adversity and did the best thing he could have done- turn the nemesis onto the thing that once initiated but now decays.

Long Live The King,
Total Regards!
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#104114 - 11/28/15 04:24 AM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: MReynolds]
nocTifer Offline
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Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
 Originally Posted By: MReynolds
What? Boyd Rice wasn't serious?

It appears he was serious about directing attention away from the CoS.

 Originally Posted By: MReynolds
..wait, um. Shit, that Gilmore dude is still in charge of shit? Fuck. \:\(

That's a matter of opinion. In charge of a single church? Yes. Is that important? Only to those who find it to be representative or authoritative.

 Originally Posted By: MReynolds
Nah, Rice was just having fun dude @ Lightseeker. You have to read it a certain way is all. Read it like you'd imagine Boyd would choose to write it. \:\)

Please elaborate. Subsequently Diabolus Rex Church departed from the CoS as i recall also. Were there others? Who and when? Did they make a fuss?
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#104141 - 11/29/15 07:31 PM Re: Boyd Rice declares himself High Priest. [Re: nocTifer]
MReynolds Offline
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Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 282
 Originally Posted By: nocTifer

It appears he was serious about directing attention away from the CoS.


Perhaps he was. Eh, as much as I adore the man, I think it was just his attempt at making himself more relevant in the "scene" that is CoS-Satanism once again. Seriously though, he was taking a stab at the CoS, and for those that "know", it was pure comedy.

 Originally Posted By: nocTifer

That's a matter of opinion. In charge of a single church? Yes. Is that important? Only to those who find it to be representative or authoritative.


Yes, it's VERY important, because the CoS is VERY representative, AND authoritative. I'd simply die without them.. Go CoS, or go home! Lol

 Originally Posted By: nocTifer

Please elaborate. Subsequently Diabolus Rex Church departed from the CoS as i recall also. Were there others? Who and when? Did they make a fuss?


Diabolis Rex (Church, really?).. nice, um.. "horns"? Lol Others? As if I know, but why not? A fuss? Surely.. you must know how sensitive those faggy vamp types can be after all.

Your "performances" in both Pearls Before Swine, and Hirsute Pursuit's-Boy's Keep Swinging.. really Mr. Rice? Ugh.. what sad days in America. \:\(

Oh, and why "i" as opposed to "I"? I can tell it's intentional in your typing/writing, and yes.. I "stalked" you a tad. Well, your Facebook, and all anyways. I just want to know.. why?


Edited by MReynolds (11/29/15 07:54 PM)
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