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#43225 - 09/26/10 08:23 PM LaVeyan or not?
Nicholas DePrey Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Sweden
I get the feeling that most of the people here follow the later LaVeyan Satanism and not the Theistic Satanism which I feel was the original Satanism LaVey started with. Not any Gnostic, Spiritual or other Satanistic believers here? Any Diabolists, Luciferians or Setians?

I am not a big fan of the later version of LaVeyan Satanism as it only is Atheism.. I would see myself as a Gnostic Satanist
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#43227 - 09/26/10 08:33 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Wake Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 93
Loc: Australia
Hmmmm.

Gnostic Satanism?
Gnostic defined as:
possessing knowledge, esp. esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters.

What does a Gnostic Satanist believe?
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#43228 - 09/26/10 08:37 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Wake]
Nicholas DePrey Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Sweden
Well, Gnostic Satanism is somewhat Theistic. Traditional Gnostic Satanists view Satan as the bestower of gnosis (knowledge, insight). Lucifer is the "Bringer of Light" in other words Lux Lucis (Lucifer) is gnosis, truth and Divine knowledge.

Lucifer is the god of progress and intellectual inquiry, not only the divine inspiration behind the spiritual enlightenment of the Gnostic and the heretic and the lover of God in all his/her forms.
Through Lucifer's spirit humanity first climbed down from the trees and has represented the flow of progress ever since.

I can add that it can be considered as Luciferianism, but Luciferianism is wide and I am involved in the Gnostic part.


Edited by Nicholas DePrey (09/26/10 08:46 PM)
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#43229 - 09/26/10 08:59 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Wake Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 93
Loc: Australia
Thankyou for answering my question.

So, you believe Lucifer/Satan is a living being? Physical or Metaphysical? Or just a metaphor, a represenation like I do?
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#43236 - 09/27/10 03:42 AM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
Your feeling is correct concerning the board following the Satanist philosophy as defined by LaVey.
There are a few people here who consider themselves theistic Satanists and there is also the case of M.A.A here.

 Quote:

I am not a big fan of the later version of LaVeyan Satanism as it only is Atheism..

Then you might indulge a bit deeper into the Satanic Bible and authentic writings of LaVey and not the pop-works the CoS produces nowadays. LaVeyan Satanism is not "only Atheism". The adherant will soon notice there are differences in behaviour and thought as soon as he/she starts to work in the outside world. Atheism is but a position towards the concept of god, not an entire philosophy or religion, as you seem to think, in comparisation towards Satanism.
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#43240 - 09/27/10 01:57 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Dimitri]
Sinthesis Offline
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Registered: 06/27/08
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If there is a real Satan running around down there (or wherever), he doesn't seem to take much part in the affairs of the world. I haven't ever seen any miracles from the devil or from God for that matter.

If you're going to tell me "Satan is all around me in every facet of life" then I will nod at your pantheistic attempt to divinify the mundane world and move on.

I became a satanist when I realized Satanism was more than Atheism. To me, being a satanist is being a warrior on behalf of desire, of making human desire unfold from a subjective hope into an external reality. You can be an Atheist and still be a boring useless person who doesn't strive for anything greater, or worse, someone who attempts to repress and crush your own desires. You can even (incorrectly) identify as belonging to some other religion while actually being a rather satanic person.

Whoever says that the idea of Being and Becoming Yourself does not need its own religion does not realize how evil and complex being and becoming yourself can be, nor the revolutionary world-historical consequences which being yourself ultimately requires.
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#43255 - 09/27/10 06:36 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Dimitri]
Nicholas DePrey Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Your feeling is correct concerning the board following the Satanist philosophy as defined by LaVey.
There are a few people here who consider themselves theistic Satanists and there is also the case of M.A.A here.

 Quote:

I am not a big fan of the later version of LaVeyan Satanism as it only is Atheism..

...writings of LaVey and not the pop-works the CoS produces nowadays.


Well, that is what I meant. I'm not a big fan of the CoS production and their stands. I have read the Satanic Bible, not very deep, but I will read more about it.

What is M.A.A?
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#43256 - 09/27/10 06:40 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Nicholas DePrey Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Sweden
Sinthesis: I see Lucifer, Satan and so on as spiritual beeings, and I can explain how I believe that. Not just personal experience but also my scientific view on it. I was Atheist and later Agnostic for a short time after coming from 18 years in church. I saw alot of deep shit in different churches. So I seeked other things. I found LaVey Satanism, but I think that CoS ruined that path for me so I searched more and found my path as it is now.
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#43259 - 09/27/10 10:15 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Clicks Offline
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Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 114
Loc: New Orleans
It kind of seems to me that you really want there to be some sort of higher being, and settled on Theistic Satanism as it best fits what you want to believe right now. It seems like you pulled an appeal to consequences and said "Well, this is what I want, so this must be what there is!" I also don't think, based on what you've said thus far, that you've really given much objective thought to a lot of your philosophy. It sounds to me like your living your life completely in the subjective realm and just trying to find a path that best fits how you think it should be.

tl;dr: You want there to be some sort of god, but not the Christian God, and Satan seemed super cool.

I'd advise some study and some serious introspection.
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#43264 - 09/28/10 10:37 AM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Clicks]
Nicholas DePrey Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Sweden
Well, you don't know me. Religion is one hobby of mine. I have spent years studying Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Animism, Egytpian, Greek, Roman Mythology, Asatru and much more. I know very much about this different religions and Satanism is the newest one for me.

Even when I was an Atheist I had a strong feeling that something spiritual exists. And my explanation is quiet simple. There is multiple dimensions which are connected to us exactly like Einstein explained about heigh, length, depth and time. This dimension holds a big question and a big amount of functions. The soul is connected to one of this dimensions and so are we. The soul do exist, no doubt about it. And I believe that the soul is the connection to the spirits of earth. It is not just our imagination that makes us see things, hear things or feel things. The truth is out there, one just has to see it.
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#43266 - 09/28/10 11:30 AM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
Even when I was an atheist I had a strong feeling that something spiritual exists.

"Something spiritual existing"? What exactly do you mean with this? Sure it wasn't some sort of crave for belonging?

 Quote:
The soul is connected to one of this dimensions and so are we. The soul do exist, no doubt about it.

The soul does exist.. got any evidence or methods for cutting it out and doing the necesarry tests on, or at least see it with my both eyes? What makes you think it exists, a gut-feeling once again? You can't solve puzzles, mysteries and questions with intuition and "feeling". I sense you have fallen in the bullshit most spiritual engaged persons tend to vomit and disguise as "science" or "metascience".

I doubt you ever were an Atheist if you still believed in ghost-stories.

 Quote:
It is not just our imagination that makes us see things, hear things or feel things.
No, that would be the complex functions and calculations your brain is doing/noticing with the help from your 5 senses.


Edited by Dimitri (09/28/10 11:31 AM)
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#43268 - 09/28/10 12:55 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Dimitri]
Nicholas DePrey Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Sweden
Well, I guess this is not a forum for me, there seems to be alot of atheists here. Not any real satanists anyway. There is no way to prove or disprove the soul and spirits. When I was an Atheist I denied everything even the soul. But as I searched my doubt was earased. And I feel now after that the belief was in me the whole time, I was in denial.

Would you deny that there is more dimension that what Einstein said?


Science is only organized knowledge, and the knowledge about the things you can't see is magick. I believe in magick.

Science and Magick must work together, then we can solve the mysteries of the world. And then we can prove or disprove your or my belief. Arguments about the rest is only stupid.

I live in the most Atheist country in the world and I face questions and arguements every day. And I came here hoping this would be a place for real satanists, not some satanists wannabe aka atheists that hates church.
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#43270 - 09/28/10 01:11 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
There is no way to prove or disprove the soul and spirits. When I was an Atheist I denied everything even the soul. But as I searched my doubt was earased. And I feel now after that the belief was in me the whole time, I was in denial.

If there is no way to prove of disproof the existence of A, then why should it automatically be taken for granted A exists? (With A being a construct like God, unicorns, fairies, ghosts, the soul,..).
It is much more reasonable and easier to say that if A cannot be proven or disproven that A simply doesn't exist for the reason you have nothing to start with in the first place.

But if you feel more comfortable in the belief of souls then go ahead. As long as you don't start vomiting wild theories and doesn't cloud your logical reasoning.

 Quote:
Would you deny that there is more dimension that what Einstein said?

I deny the wild theories when it comes to the existence of different dimensions. Einstein on the other hand was also BUT a human and it is possible he made mistakes in his theory, or at least that his theory is incomplete.

 Quote:
Science and Magick must work together, then we can solve the mysteries of the world. And then we can prove or disprove your or my belief. Arguments about the rest is only stupid.

Depends on what you define as magic...
The scientific method is all what is needed to solve and try to understand the mysteries of the world. Magick is only manipulation of gained information (or to some: working with their own lack of knowledge and filling with fantasy).

 Quote:
I live in the most atheist country in the world and I face questions and arguements every day. And I came here hoping this would be a place for real satanists, not some satanists wannabe aka atheists that hates church.

Perhaps instead of closing your eyes and ears for these arguments you should put them wide open. If you think that real Satanists are people believing in fairy-tales and a real man with goat legs then so be it. You do not need to make a scene when leaving because most of the people don't agree with you on this particular topic, you weren't that important and I certainly didn't feel honoured/granted a privilege to talk with you.


Edited by Dimitri (09/28/10 01:12 PM)
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#43271 - 09/28/10 01:57 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Dimitri]
Nicholas DePrey Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Sweden
And why deny that it is not proven?

You should research about dimension before you make a statement.

About what magick is, read Crowleys work.

My eyes are open, maybe you should open them.
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#43272 - 09/28/10 02:05 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
And why deny that it is not proven?

Who said I was denying THAT? If you say you can proof the existence of a soul, then go ahead. You'd probably be the very first capable in doing so.. in hopes you at least don't make mistakes in your reasoning or proof.

 Quote:
You should research about dimension before you make a statement.

I might know a lot more about it then you might suspect.. unless you are talking about divine planes and spiritual worlds of all the different religions you claim to have studied. 'Cause in that case I might not know all the names (but will tell and point at the fallacies as soon as the story has been told).

 Quote:
About what magick is, read Crowleys work.

I know Crowley, thank you very much. I simply don't follow some of his logic and metaphorical words. His work is sometimes boring and very repetitive once familiar with his style of writing and "explaning".
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