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#43274 - 09/28/10 02:45 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I think your first mistake is thinking that Satanism is something to be followed. As a Satanist I do not follow anything; I have a certain set of "rules" that I live by, influenced by some but ultimately decided upon me. I can see no reason why someone who professes to be a Satanist could follow anyone, or anything for that matter, besides themselves.

Saying that "LaVeyan only Atheism" shows, I think, a misunderstanding. Yes, it starts with Atheism - an unwavering conviction that there are no Gods but it moves past that and, recognizing mans seeming desire for a god, bestows it on the only person qualified for the job: the self.

Personally, a lot of the ideas contained in TSB resonate with me and are very much a part of who I am but you certainly wont see me jumping down the throat of every "LaVey-baiter" like one is sure to see over at LttD. Nor will you see me on my knees supplicating in the name of some horned creature.

In the end you can call yourself whatever you want; it is who and what you really are that people will see.
No gods. No masters.

#43277 - 09/28/10 04:38 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Knievel74 Offline

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Nicholas DePrey
Well, I guess this is not a forum for me, there seems to be alot of atheists here. Not any real satanists anyway.

It seems like you're making a feeble attempt at insulting the members here. What is real Satanism? Is it believing in some being who never existed? Or not believing in a being who never existed?

There is no way to prove or disprove the soul and spirits. When I was an atheist I denied everything even the soul. But as I searched my doubt was earased. And I feel now after that the belief was in me the whole time, I was in denial.

So, how can you prove we have a soul? What makes us different than the other animals on earth? Just because we're self-aware and understand the concept of time doesn't mean we have a soul. Does that mean that dogs and cats have souls? Is there a doggy or kitty cat heaven?

Would you deny that there is more dimension that what Einstein said?

Yes. Until I see hard, cold facts, other dimensions cannot be proven. It's just a theory.

the knowledge about the things you can't see is magick. I believe in magick.

Awesome! I believe that Angelina Jolie will give me a BJ. Let's both keep believing. A person might have knowledge about the concept of Magick. Or they can have knowledge in the practice of it. But there's never been any proof that it actually works.

Science and Magick must work together, then we can solve the mysteries of the world. And then we can prove or disprove your or my belief. Arguments about the rest is only stupid.

Science is based on intense research and facts. Science and science only will solve the mysteries of the world. Magick is based on make-believe and fantasy.

I came here hoping this would be a place for real satanists, not some satanists wannabe aka atheists that hates church.

Satanism is about a lot of things, including objectivism and undefiled wisdom. So some people here might say that this is a place for real Satanists. But sometimes truth is the hardest pill to swallow.
"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

#43279 - 09/28/10 04:55 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Knievel74]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509

Somehow I seem to have missed all the shit-talking done in this thread. Probably because I only read the first post.

Not wanting to pile on too much I shall submit only this:

There is no way to prove or disprove the soul and spirits.

Correct. However, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and the burden of proof resides with the person making the positive claim i.e. 'souls exist'.

You make a claim about something and then go on to say that it can't be proven or disproved; so, what is the point? That is like me saying that I have an apple, then you ask me to prove it and I say "you can't prove I don't!" Where does that get anyone? Hint: fucking nowhere!

I think it is best that you do indeed slink away with your tail between your legs as it will give the adults time to talk.


Edit: Upon second thought I realize that your claim about the inability to prove or disprove spirits and souls is not entirely correct. Many people think that they have seen undeniable evidence in favor of the existence of said things. Whether or not the evidence is sufficient is an entirely different story. At present the existence of such things has not be undeniably proven but that does not mean that such things are impossible to prove. The burden of proof still does reside with the person making the positive claim though.

Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (09/28/10 04:58 PM)
Edit Reason: Marked.
No gods. No masters.

#43281 - 09/28/10 06:16 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Clicks Offline

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 114
Loc: New Orleans
So, you've given study to all this different religions and mythologies, and have not stumbled upon Satanism and now your life is Satan? Did you believe in and follow each of the other religions you studied? Were you able to conform to their rules and beliefs just as easily? And if not, why all of the sudden does Satan seem so real to you?
Join your local Wizards' Association today!

#43983 - 11/03/10 07:07 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
PrinceOfBabalon Offline

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 49
Loc: London
I resent the term Theistic Satanist, not because of its literal definition but because of its implication; degrading forms of worship given to something in the hope of being included and incorporated into it. A cursory glance through any manifestation of the Satanic mythos (Paradise Lost being a good place to start) should lead even the most dim mind to the understanding that this sort of thing is wholly incompatible with the historical/mythological characteristics of Satan.

While for a long time I maintained an essentially atheistic outlook in relation to the existence of any external intelligences (be they Satan, God or any other), I do now feel that there is "something" objective that can be apprehended in particular circumstances and at particular times.

In terms of labels I would prefer Black Magician or Sorcerer to others, as while Satan is the primary manifestation of Darkness that I work with, he is one, synthetic avatar of the ageless Prince of Darkness. Likewise while there is much I like about LaVey's writings I certainly do not hold them as being guide books to living my life and so many would say that excludes me from being called a "LaVeyan".

#43984 - 11/03/10 10:56 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: PrinceOfBabalon]
deathreaperuk Offline

Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 24
Loc: England
i always see theistic and spiritual satanists as having somethibg missing, they seem to not be happy with the "self" and seek some higher entity to appease themselfes.

we all know many years ago foolish talk of omnipotent beings existing was a way of life, They thought appolo opened up the curtains for nignt and day, if there was a tsunami it was hades releasing the kracken. stifled minds through age old dogmas.

if someone actually said that to me id laugh so hard in there face LOL. oo there is a earthquake so satan must be angry in hell. no my friend its called plate tectonics.

the knowledge about the things you can't see is magick ? i say how can you have knowledge in things you cant see. i would not call it magic, id call it speculation.

in my opinion does the soul exist, i say no. and if i did believe basically my soul would be my humanity my "self". not some outlandish claim that i have a soul in some astral plane or other dimention.

frankly i cant see how anyone can believe that beings invented by man can actually exist, i supose if i wrote a book on demonology and made up some new demons, some deluded fools will claim they are real LOL.

frankly to the original poster it seems to me like you are lost and cant distinguish fantasy from reality, is it so frightening to believe that nothing else exists out there and we are nothing more than educated primates.

#44018 - 11/06/10 02:28 AM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: deathreaperuk]
daevid777 Offline
active member

Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Science was invented by man. So was the theory of plate tectonics... and fraggles. But I love Fraggle Rock!

I think it would be Neptune, or counterpart Poseidon, who has the power to unleash the Titan under the sea... And it could be Ra, or Apollo, or Helios... riding a chariot pulling the sun along... what a beautiful metaphor!

Poetry Mallory, Poetry.

Contemporary "science" places nice new names for naturally occuring phenomena....("Do doo do do doo") Nevermind, muppets again.

Every day I wake up and live through is "Magic" to me... the way the sun rises... I don't care how you want to explain it... just take a look, it's nice.

How flowers bloom, mushrooms bloom! Children laugh at the craziest shit... Magick.

Maybe it can all be "explained" by "science", but maybe that's missing the point.

The ancient Greeks and Romans had it so wrong in one regard (?), but introduced a system of logic, philosophy, government, plumbing... most of which we still use and study to this day. Some of which are university level courses, and/or majors! Some of which is required reading for business degrees.

All of the "Meterologists" I've ever watched, listened to, or read on the internet got it sometimes right... sometimes wrong. With all their science and doppler radars backing them. And if they did get it wrong, they blamed it on "El Nino"... when that didn't work, they blamed it on "La Nina"... Sounds like "God shit" to me, or is it those damned Mexicans! Screwing with the weather now! I'm half-Mexican, so I do like to screw around with the weather, but only half the time.

So I give you the King Julian approach...

"My sacrifice goes in the volcano, then the friendly gods will eat up my sacrifice, "Mmm thank you for the sacrifice" "please have another sacrifce" "No I've had enough for the day" "listen, I'm going to be very upset if you don't have another" "I don't want another sacrifice ok?!" "Come on you look so skinny!" "No I think I've had enough is that clear?!"......The gods eat the sacrifice..they are grateful, they give me some of their water, and I will give it to you."

If they believe... and it works... 50/50, like "science" does... hell. No prob. Speculation is the word. But if we call it the bird, it's a much better song.

Or do you think we can "control" plate tectonics? Or the weather? "Gods", "Physics"... same to me, one just tries harder to get the same results.


P.S. - I am happy with myself... but if it rains tomorrow... well, I was just doing my part!
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

#83436 - 12/18/13 10:18 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Dimitri]
Praetus Offline

Registered: 10/28/13
Posts: 7
Loc: florida
Its not for me to convert any 1 to anything because i don't know everything,just like no 1 else in here.I don't follow Lavey nor do i follow ford or Crowley .I do have a background in sabbatic witchcraft and occultism that goes back decades and it tells me that all power comes from the devil or opposition.What needs to be remembered is that occult rituals are psychological exercises with mythology containing hidden truths or philosophical lessons.It makes absolutely no difference if you believe in the soul or not as alot of real witchcraft covens don't.Sometimes you need those little rituals to fully grasp the totality of the lesson.
#83440 - 12/18/13 11:21 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Praetus]
RollinStalker Offline

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 41
Loc: san francisco ,Ca
Why Satanism though ? Why not Christian Atheism or Judaic Atheism ?
Just because you wanna do what you want and disagree with main stream religionddoesn't give you the right to label yourself a satanist !
Seriously Christians aren't God worshippers , they just believe in God ! Satanists believe in someone possibly Beelzebub, Kali, Set etc !
Atheism should be just Atheism not satanic , its preposterous!

But I see how some decided to leave the right hand path that the satanic church took and found a whole new path within the ancient Set.
Sadly the right hand path that the CoS took is very atheistic in L.A. and NYC

#83441 - 12/19/13 02:19 AM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: RollinStalker]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
senior member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York

Just because you wanna do what you want and disagree with main stream religionddoesn't give you the right to label yourself a satanist !

Yes, it does give me that right, because I grant it for myself \:\)
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

#83466 - 12/19/13 02:31 PM Re: LaVeyan or not? [Re: Nicholas DePrey]
Aciel Offline

Registered: 11/14/13
Posts: 130
Might I suggest you abstain at this time from making concrete decisions about the archetypes you are referring to. Endlessly debating the anthropomorphic existence of these representations of sinister thought as possibly materializing on this plane of existence is neither Satanic or Luciferian. I assume that you are interested in the LHP because you want to dominate YOUR subjective reality, this will not come to fruition by trying to dominate OTHER people's subjective reality. As a matter of fact, if you are going to approach your practice from a theistic perspective, the ideals you seek to assimilate will not respond kindly to an attitude of faith(so it is said), might I suggest you read some Neitzsche if you are determined to take complete control over your life, the (Satanic or Occult) philosophy will not work if you refuse to see that YOU are the only God that matters weather or not you are Atheist or theistic. The LHP is only 1/2 magical ritual, without serious change in your view of YOURSELF as autonomous in your path none of this will work and you will be wasting your time.

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