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#43456 - 10/05/10 07:37 PM Emerald Tablets
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
In his Rituals (1972), Anton Szandor LaVey provides a ceremony he associates with German culture known as The Electrical Prelude (Die Elektrischen Vorspiele). He attributes this rite to the various Thule Societies as further developed by "the intellectual element of the budding Siecherheitsdients RFS" in Nazi Germany. Dr. LaVey was engaged in building a legend though, so we shouldn't be too disappointed that this appears to be distinct from any historical facts.

The main recognizable source for the Hounds of the Barrier and various other features of the litany provided has been long known to be a short story by Frank Belknap Long called "The Hounds of Tindalos" which was originally published in Weird Tales (1931). This is one of the original Lovecraft Circle stories, which provided a root for the literary tradition now commonly known as the Cthulhu Cycle. A great many authors have written pastiches for the Cycle over the years, all claiming in-story to be genuine events rooted in the dark spots of history, so it is easy to interpret the Electrical Prelude as LaVey's personal contribution to the mythos. Two more rituals are provided in the same book which deal more directly with the Lovecraft pantheon, as interpreted by Michael Aquino.

In "The Law of the Trapezoid" though, his introduction to the Vorspiele, Dr. LaVey mentions that the litany is a paraphrase of something he calls "the Eighth Emerald Tablet of Thoth (Hermes Trismegistus)". Superficial attempts to research this tid-bit quickly lead us to the genuine Emerald Tablet, a medieval import from the Arabic "Secret of Secrets" (Kitab Sirr al-Asrar). As for example in this second-hand translation by Sir Isaac Newton:

 Quote:
1. Tis true without lying, certain most true.

2. That which is below is like that which is above that which is above is like that which is below to do the miracles of one only thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet#Newton.27s_translation

It's a fairly short work on the Key of Alchemy, singular essence in various forms, is not divided into separate tablets at all, and contains nothing even vaguely resembling the ritual or the Long story.

Dig a little deeper though, and one can find another work, perhaps inspired by the original, known as The Emerald Tablets of Thoth.

http://www.crystalinks.com/emerald.html

This is more substantial, obviously modern, and does contain the requisite passages in its "Tablet 8". As for example

 Quote:
Yet, beware, the serpent still liveth
in a place that is open at times to the world.
Unseen they walk among thee
in places where the rites have been said.
Again as time passes onward
shall they take the semblance of men.


and

 Quote:
Strange and terrible
are the HOUNDS of the Barrier.
Follow they consciousness to the limits of space.
Think not to escape by entering your body,
for follow they fast the Soul through angles.
Only the circle will give ye protection,
save from the claws
of the DWELLERS IN ANGLES.

Once, in a time past,
I approached the great Barrier,
and saw on the shores where time exists not,
the formless forms
of the HOUNDS of the barrier.
Aye, hiding in the midst beyond time I found them;
and THEY, scenting me afar off,
raised themselves and gave the great bell cry
that could be heard from cycle to cycle
and moved through space toward my soul.


There's a strong sing-song quality to the text, reminiscent of Longfellow or the Kalevala, and a tendency to make the reader feel there is a rhyme scheme through simple repetition of the same words. This gives it a vaguely hypnotic (but annoying) quality that LaVey's version does not have, but it also shows strong signs of literary inferiority and theosophical double-talk.

http://www.alchemylab.com/thothtablets0.htm

One of the sites hosting it tells us that it was originally published in mimeograph form in the 1930s by a mysterious Dr. Doreal. This could be just barely in time to have something to do with Long's work and would certainly predate Dr. LaVey's. On the other hand, they also tell us that it's a gifted translation of an ancient Egyptian text kept in the Great Pyramid by the "Great White Lodge", who continue to use that edifice for their rituals, and that it was originally written by the actual Thoth, an Atlantean survivor who brought culture to the Nile area.

So what do y'all think? Is it a real piece of occultnik miscellany from the 30's, or a post-1972 retrofit by white-lighters trying to tap into the LaVey mystique?



Edited by Aklo (10/05/10 07:52 PM)
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#43460 - 10/05/10 11:43 PM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Aklo]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1941
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
From my The Church of Satan:

 Originally Posted By: M.A.A.
... The version of “Die Elektrischen Vorspiele” appearing in the Satanic Rituals also evidences German language problems - beginning with its title, which is erroneously translated into the plural. [The German in Appendix #5 has been corrected.]

A 6114 origin for “Die Elektrischen Vorspiele”, however, may be postulated for other reasons. The theme of the “Hounds of Tindalos” [changed from the original text to “Hounds of the Angles” for the Satanic Rituals] derives from Frank Belknap Long’s famous story The Hounds of Tindalos, written in 1929. After my article on Lovecraftian ritual appeared in the HPL-theme magazine Nyctalops, Long wrote to me as follows:

 Originally Posted By: FBL to MAA, 9/2/78
The inclusion of “The Hounds of T.” in that Satanic ritual startled me no end. I had no previous knowledge of this. Now I am really frightened, fearing that - oh, well. I shall probably be able to overcome that fear by telling myself, over and over, that the “Hounds” were solely an FBL construct and that I thought of them one morning while shaving. But still - one never knows.

I knew absolutely nothing, I can assure you, of LaVey’s ritual use of “The Hounds” until the arrival of the Nyctalops article, and seemingly none of my friends read the Avon volume. Otherwise I’m quite sure my attention would have been called to it long before this.

I was appalled, as you surmise, that LaVey ascribed “The Hounds” to Nazi/SS ideology. It was published in Weird Tales long before the rise of the Nazis and even before HPL’s C-mythos had taken on its later, elaborately structured form. It could, of course, have gone back to the very wild period of German expressionism that immediately followed World War I - no, that began as early as 1910 or so - if I did not know better. I simply pulled the title out of thin air, in searching for something hideously chilling (some title with a fiery implication attached to it as well perhaps), and I remember that the word “tinder” leapt immediately into my mind.

Now another specter from “long ago and far away” has arisen to astound me. In the just-published new volume about the Necronomicon [Long is talking about The Necronomicon by George Hay (Ed.) - M.A.] an elaborate ancestry has been traced for John Dee’s translation. I pulled that non-existent translation out of thin air too, and it appeared at the head of “The Space Eaters” in Weird Tales in July 1928. HPL immediately incorporated it into the C-mythos. The incredible things we set in motion without remotely suspecting they would have such momentous future consequences!

There was no inter-war “Black Order” in Germany of an occult society nature. The title Das Schwarze Korps identified the Nazi SS only. Its esoteric research section was the Abteilung zur Überprüfung der sogenannten Geheimwissenschaften of the Ahnenerbe or “Ancestral Heritage” organization created by Heinrich Himmler [as Curator] and headed jointly by President Professor Walter Wüst and Secretary-General Wolfram Sievers, who reported directly to Himmler’s Chief of Staff, SS-Obergruppenführer Karl Wolff.

The Satanic Rituals is thus in error in attributing Black Magical research or activity to the Sicherheitsdienst (SD), which was the domestic and foreign intelligence division of the RSHA (Security Department) headed by SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich. [See also Appendix #44.]...

From personal ecorrespondence in which I was cc'd this past June:

 Originally Posted By: Don Webb VI°, Temple of Set
... "The Tindalos Cycle" arrived in the mail today. It looks charming. You missed one though, a really wacky one. I know that you have a copy of the The Satanic Rituals and have seen La Vey's "Vorspiele". I always assumed that he got his Hounds of the barrier straight from Long.

Not so. A very goofy mystic in the 1930's, Doreal, stuck Long's work into a channeled version of The Emerald Tablet, which has to be read to be disbelieved. In the Eighth Key are a long number of verses that La Vey lifted line for line. The book is full of Lovecraftian stuff -- for example did you know that "Thoth the Egyptian" came from Thoth Island -- actually called Yog So Thoth Island?

Doreal's group was the Brotherhood of the White Temple.

Concerning the "Tindalos" version of the 8th Precept of the Emerald Tablet, "The Key of Mystery", here is an excerpt:

 Quote:
List ye, O man,
to the depth of my wisdom.
Speak I of knowledge hidden from man.
Far have I been
on my journey through SPACE-TIME,
even to the end of space of this cycle.
Aye, glimpsed the HOUNDS of the Barrier,
lying in wait for he who would pass them.
In that space where time exists not,
faintly I sensed the guardians of cycles.
Move they only through angles.
Free are they not of the curved dimensions

Doreal was also the first guy to talk about the Reptilian menace in Mt. Rainier ...
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3, Wright]

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#43461 - 10/06/10 01:57 AM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
Thanks! When I first staggered across the Emerald Tablets of Thoth I dug through your e-tome and its wonderful appendices. But at the time, the only thing I could find relevant to the Vorspiele was that cool letter from Long, which seemed to discourage the idea of him having lifted it from any occult group, Nazis or not. But if Doreal swiped it from him along with the other bits he has clearly stolen from people like Blavatsky, then it looks like everyone is back in character.

Forgive me for checking references, but, what sort of information might Don Webb be privy too that would give him confidence that these White Brothers really date back to the 30's? I suppose it doesn't matter if he isn't the source for "The Hounds of Tindalos", but I'm vaguely interested in Doreal himself now I guess. I don't have the Tindalos Cycle, I had to cut way back on my Call of Cthulhu accessories after the 14th or 15th volume; but if Robert M. Price says it is vintage 30's stuff, I guess I believe him.

You do mention the Tablets in passing in your book though, in your corrections to Arthur Lyons (Appendix 146)

 Quote:
The Emerald Tablet of Thoth is a famous legendary repository of wisdom, a la the Necronomicon. Crowley later used the title to rename the Tarot deck, and the Jeweled Tablets of Set are also named in honor of the Emerald Tablet.


I'd be interested in hearing more about your understanding of this "legendary" Tablet. I have read hints about this in other places, I will try to dig up more references if they start to look relevant. This makes it sound like there were mystics and fakers quoting things from some Emerald Tablet that certainly wasn't the known text, and Doreal constructed his opus to provide such extra tablets.

Doreal's work supposedly originally contained 13 complete "tablets" (poems) to which two more were added later. The original Hermes Trismegistus text only consisted of 13 statements altogether, plus a conclusion. The 8th of these statements is

 Quote:
8. It ascends from the earth to the heaven again it descends to the earth and receives the force of things superior and inferior.


So I wonder if each of Doreal's Tablets is inspired by or attempts to elucidate on the corresponding statement from the original.

 Originally Posted By: Don Webb VI°, Temple of Set
Doreal was also the first guy to talk about the Reptilian menace in Mt. Rainier ...


I'm intrigued by this, too. I know the Serpent-Men were first introduced to the Lovecraft Circle by Robert E. Howard in "The Shadow Kingdom" in 1929. But I'm pretty iffy about when they started showing up in the present in stories. They seem to be identified with the hounds in the poetry we are looking at now, "so learn well the word that only a man can pronounce."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_Men#Origin_and_society

 Quote:
In Robert E. Howard's King Kull stories, the serpent people worship a god known as the Great Serpent. Later writers would identify the Great Serpent with the Great Old One Yig and with the Stygian serpent god Set from Howard's Conan stories.


Any chance we can get footage of you and some of your pals saying "Ka nama kaa lajerama" ???

* Shout out to the lurkers: There is awesome video and discussion of actual performances of the Electrical Prelude in a thread by MatthewJ1 which also features Dr. Aquino as well as Jake999 and other luminaries:

http://www.the600club.com/topic37898-1.html

Just as a side note, in his 10th Tablet, "The Key of Time", Doreal includes a greatly abbreviated version of the "Descent of Inanna" from the Sumerian and Babylonian cuneiform texts. This same incident occurs in much greater detail in the Simon Necronomicon from Avon. There's no big mystery to this, scholarly versions of the source texts were available long before "Doreal" or "Simon" ever wrote. But it's interesting to see the way that certain choice bits keep getting lifted from the archaic documents and reused, in preference to many other items in a similar context which don't seem to have that special "zing" to them.
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#43478 - 10/06/10 02:09 PM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Aklo]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1941
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
what sort of information might Don Webb be privy to that would give him confidence that these White Brothers really date back to the 30's?

I don't know; I was just a "cc" on this eletter and didn't respond to it. Quoted from it here because of the reference to Doreal. You could email Ipsissimus Webb directly:

setnakt@austin.rr.com

 Originally Posted By: Aklo
I'd be interested in hearing more about your understanding of this "legendary" Tablet.

It's not one of the subjects I explored; I just kept bumping into the name in White Magical literature - Manly Palmer Hall's The Secret Teachings of All Ages & etc. When we were putting the Temple of Set together in 1975, I needed a name for its "permanent wisdom" publications, and I thought real, as opposed to just fictional, "jeweled tablets" sounded fun. Hence [linked to our six degrees/colors] the Crystal, Ruby, Onyx, Sapphire, Amethyst, & Topaz Tablets of Set. [Green is the background for the Honorary Setian medallion, so we don't need "Emerald".]

 Originally Posted By: Aklo
I know the Serpent-Men were first introduced to the Lovecraft Circle by Robert E. Howard in "The Shadow Kingdom" in 1929. But I'm pretty iffy about when they started showing up in the present in stories. They seem to be identified with the hounds in the poetry we are looking at now, "so learn well the word that only a man can pronounce."

Well, during their encounter in L.A. a few years ago, Indiana Jones showed Don Webb a page from a book Marion had just faxed to him:

 Originally Posted By: Mike Marinacci, Mysterious California
Deep beneath the heart of Los Angeles’ financial district, hundreds of feet below the huge downtown edifices that house banks, corporate offices, and government agencies, lies another city remembered only in obscure Indian legends, an underground world built by a strange race that vanished five thousand years ago.

At least that’s what mining engineer W. Warren Shufelt claimed in the January 29, 1934 Los Angeles Times. According to reporter Jean Bosquet, Shufelt was ready to dig up downtown L.A. in search of this ancient subterranean civilization.

Shufelt had first heard of the city in a Hopi legend about “the Lizard People”. They were a fabled lost race who had built thirteen great underground cities on the Pacific Coast after a huge holocaust swept the southwest back around 3000 B.C. The subterranean settlements were constructed to shelter the tribe against future disasters, and housed a thousand families each, along with stockpiles of food. As the story has it, they bored out the tunnels of their subsurface homes with a “chemical solution” that melted solid bedrock. Among other things, the Lizard People possessed troves of golden tablets that chronicled their race’s history, the origin of humankind, and the story of the world back to creation.

A Hopi chief told Shufelt that the vanished race’s capital city was located under present-day downtown Los Angeles. After surveying the area, Shufelt showed up on the Banning property at North Hill Street and sank a 350-foot shaft straight down, digging for what he said was a “treasure room” directly underneath. Shufelt said he had located gold in the catacombs below with the aid of his “radio X-ray”.

This peculiar instrument, which was a sort of glorified dowsing pendulum, had also helped Shufelt map the location and extent of the underground tunnels. He said that the subterranean city was shaped like a giant lizard, with the tail tapering out beneath the Central Library and the head in the vicinity of Chavez Ravine (now Dodger Stadium). The “key room” - the chamber that contained the map of the city and the directory to the golden tablets - lay several hundred feet under the present site of Times-Mirror Square. Shufelt also claimed that he’d traced passages stretching to the region around the Southwest Museum, and said that ventilation tunnels extended westward, opening at the Pacific Ocean.


 Originally Posted By: Aklo
Any chance we can get footage of you and some of your pals saying "Ka nama kaa lajerama" ???

Not since I was surfing back at UCSB in the 1960s. I think that was one of the chants to the Great Surf God Lono we tried when there weren't any waves.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3, Wright]

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#43510 - 10/08/10 08:04 AM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Groenoordhallen Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 8
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
[...] Doreal [...]


It amazes me that Doreal is popping up here as if it were a new insight.

Dr. LaVey has always identified his source, perhaps in a way only understood by those in the know, but nevertheless:

E.g., in "The Satanic Rituals": "The litany spoken by the celebrant paraphrases the Eighth Emerald Tablet of Thoth ...". And in "Satan Wants You": "[Das Tierdrama] had its origins in the combination of an obscure 1930s occult tract called The Emerald Book of Thoth and ...". Here, Arthur Lyons confuses The Electrical Prelude with Das Tierdrama, but that's not Dr. LaVey's fault and it is clear he told Lyons about his source.

The Hounds of Tindalos have no link whatsoever with The Electrical Prelude, as far as the text is concerned.

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#43511 - 10/08/10 03:30 PM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Groenoordhallen]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1941
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Groenoordhallen
It amazes me that Doreal is popping up here as if it were a new insight. Dr. LaVey has always identified his source, perhaps in a way only understood by those in the know, but nevertheless: E.g., in "The Satanic Rituals": "The litany spoken by the celebrant paraphrases the Eighth Emerald Tablet of Thoth ...". And in "Satan Wants You": "[Das Tierdrama] had its origins in the combination of an obscure 1930s occult tract called The Emerald Book of Thoth and ...".

The mere SR mention of "the Eighth ETOT" without its author is inadequate since, as noted above, there have been all sorts of "ETOT"s floating around for the last upteen centuries. All Anton had to do, as in his omission of Redbeard's authorship of the "Book of Satan", was to mention Doreal's name (which he omitted even on the Satanic Rituals' inspiration/dedication page). And of course all of the psuedohistorical BS that Anton includes in the "EV" introduction merely adds to the deliberate disinformation.

As for Art Lyons' Satan Wants You: The Cult of Devil-Worship in America, it appeared in 1988 - years after the sources for the various SR ritual texts were exposed and analyzed in my Church of Satan. [As a matter of curiosity, I will rummage around for Art Lyons' original The Second Coming: Satanism in America-titled 1970 edition to see what it says.] By 1988 Anton was trying to paper-over several embarrassments, the most peculiar of which being his dodge to attribute Raganar's work to Jack London.

 Originally Posted By: Groenoordhallen
Here, Arthur Lyons confuses The Electrical Prelude with Das Tierdrama, but that's not Dr. LaVey's fault and it is clear he told Lyons about his source.

My copies of Art's original & updated books are in storage, but it appears that to Art Anton was not speaking of the "EV" at all, but just trying to add the "TD" to the poor old Emerald Tablet:

 Originally Posted By: M.A.A. Scroll of Set 6/88
Page 112: ... In The Satanic Rituals the "Tierdrama" was attributed to an old O.T.O. text and to the Bavarian Illuminati. Both of those balloons were punctured in The Church of Satan, so now Anton has conjured up "The Emerald Book of Thoth" as a source. [The Emerald Tablet of Thoth is a famous legendary repository of magical wisdom, a la the Necronomicon. Crowley later used the title to rename the Tarot deck, and the Jeweled Tablets of Set are also named in honor of the Emerald Tablet. It’s about time for Anton to give H.G. Wells his sole due for a good story, i.e. The Island of Dr. Moreau, and let it go at that.]


 Originally Posted By: Groenoordhallen
The Hounds of Tindalos have no link whatsoever with The Electrical Prelude, as far as the text is concerned.

Of course it does, as the source for Doreal's use of Frank Long's imagery. Read it for yourself and note the descriptions of the "Hounds who can move only through angles, but not curves", etc.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3, Wright]

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#43512 - 10/08/10 04:01 PM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Groenoordhallen]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
Cool, someone "in the know". Just what I am looking for.

Please tell us everything you can about Doreal's work and how you became familiar with it. Have you done any magic with it? Is the mass of it useful, or is this another case where Dr. LaVey picked a pearl out of some manure? This is an important issue, because while Might is Right for example, is a strong exposition of political philosophy, the parts that LaVey selected are so much more evocative than the majority he didn't bother with as to effectively constitute a gifted work on their own. We run into a similar effect with the Sheikh Adi poem appended to the Al Jilwah, the parts he left out were the same ones I would prefer not to have in the text.

On another point, now that we have the Emerald Tablets, does this mean we should also believe the story of the Vorspiele being translated from German that was used by the Nazis in Berlin? Should we take Dr. LaVey's word on historical events as gospel? Or did he lie / exaggerate / mythify / bullshit whenever it suited his purpose, similar to the way Crowley professedly did?
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#43520 - 10/09/10 04:21 AM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Groenoordhallen Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 8
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
The mere SR mention of "the Eighth ETOT" without its author is inadequate [...] the sources for the various SR ritual texts were exposed and analyzed in my Church of Satan.


I do not want to offend anyone. However, while I agree it is inadequate for those who just read the text once instead of studying it, I think it is more than adequate for a Satanist. The same holds true for the use of Might is Right in combination with the dedication to Redbeard: the casual reader does not know or care where the text was lifted from, the Satanist tracks down LaVey's references, such as the dedications. And there were plenty of libraries in 1969 c.e. where one could check the catalogue sub voce Redbeard and find a copy of Might is Right. Even more than Dr. LaVey assumed, I might add.

Your "Church of Satan" obviously did not expose all of the sources for the Satanic Rituals, since you yourself agree now that Doreal is one of them and Doreal was (and, if I'm not mistaken, still is) not even mentioned in your "Church of Satan".

There are, by the way, many more omissions like this in your "Church of Satan". While it clearly is a valuable study of certain aspects of the Church of Satan, this fact should perhaps make you reconsider accusing Dr. LaVey of writing BS.

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#43521 - 10/09/10 04:44 AM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Aklo]
Groenoordhallen Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 8
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
does this mean we should also believe the story of the Vorspiele being translated from German that was used by the Nazis in Berlin?


This is what Dr. LaVey wrote: "So far as this author has been able to discover, German lodges have kept secret the rites which accompany the spoken hypothesis. It is known that certain individuals have stumbled upon these procedures, employing and expanding upon them to great advantage, but, as might be expected, little has been divulged. The instructions given here will serve as a useful key to those who can extract the most viable principles and apply them to their own ends."

In other words, he used Doreal's text as a useful key, he did not claim to have used the original text in German. It is clear to anyone with some knowledge of German that an original text in English was translated into German by someone who did not know German but looked up every word in an English-German dictionary and hoped for the best. The resulting text in German may best be ignored. This "someone" is portrayed in The Devil's Avenger, by the way, and from the portrayal you will understand why exactly this person was asked to translate the Doreal text by Dr. LaVey. Just as in the case of Dr. Aquino, Dr. LaVey asked several of his trusted associates to assist him with the composition of the Satanic Rituals. The Electrical Prelude translation, I think, is the only real mistake in that book.

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#43522 - 10/09/10 04:52 AM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Aklo]
Groenoordhallen Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 8
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
Please tell us everything you can about Doreal's work and how you became familiar with it.


I became familiar with it after I studied the Satanic Rituals, tracked down a copy of Maurice Doreal's Emerald Tablets (Brotherhood of the White Temple, mimeograph, 1939 c.e.), and then studied this work.

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#43523 - 10/09/10 05:02 AM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Groenoordhallen Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 8
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: Groenoordhallen
The Hounds of Tindalos have no link whatsoever with The Electrical Prelude, as far as the text is concerned.

Of course it does, as the source for Doreal's use of Frank Long's imagery.


Yes, as far as the imagery and inspiration is concerned, but I was talking about the text. See the "Angles of Madness" chapter in "Secret Life of a Satanist" for Dr. LaVey's acknowledgement of both Long and Doreal.

"Secret Life", by the way, came out twenty years ago, and is another example of a published explanation of the source of the text of the Electrical Prelude which was not included in the editions of your "Church of Satan" that appeared afterwards.

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#43528 - 10/09/10 02:08 PM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Groenoordhallen]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1941
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Groenoordhallen
... while I agree it is inadequate for those who just read the text once instead of studying it, I think it is more than adequate for a Satanist. The same holds true for the use of Might is Right in combination with the dedication to Redbeard: the casual reader does not know or care where the text was lifted from, the Satanist tracks down LaVey's references, such as the dedications. And there were plenty of libraries in 1969 c.e. where one could check the catalogue sub voce Redbeard and find a copy of Might is Right. Even more than Dr. LaVey assumed, I might add.

You appear to be arguing that plagiarism and source-invention are acceptable as long as the unattributed originals and the proofs of deliberate falsification exist to be suspected/discovered; and that such deceptions are particularly acceptable to Satanists. I could not disagree more profoundly on both counts.

 Quote:
Your "Church of Satan" obviously did not expose all of the sources for the Satanic Rituals, since you yourself agree now that Doreal is one of them and Doreal was (and, if I'm not mistaken, still is) not even mentioned in your "Church of Satan".

You're correct with regard to Doreal: Once I established the original source through my dialogue with Frank Long & the Order of the Trapezoid's research into actual Nazi occultism, I did not bother [or indeed suspect] an intermediate plagiarism of Long's work. As for Secret Life of a Satanist, both Densley and Anton [by then] were hardly sources whom I would bother to take seriously.

I have made a note of Don Webb's Doreal findings in the event I further update COS, however. It merits at least a footnote.

 Quote:
There are, by the way, many more omissions like this in your "Church of Satan".

Then by all means share them with me/the 600C. If/when I further update the ebook, I will correct them too. [This has been a standing invitation, including to Anton & all family members, since Edition #1, by the way.]

 Quote:
While it clearly is a valuable study of certain aspects of the Church of Satan, this fact should perhaps make you reconsider accusing Dr. LaVey of writing BS.

Not at all. When he writes personal works of insight, creativity, and genius, I acknowledge same. When he writes BS, plagiarism, or lies, I acknowledge same. The result, as brought out in COS, is a portrait of a very kaleidoscopic individual whom it is certainly inadequate to judge by superficial, simple criteria. But then this is true of human beings generally, notables the more so. As Aristotle observed, "There is no genius without a mixture of madness."
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3, Wright]

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#43529 - 10/09/10 02:22 PM Re: Emerald Tablets [Re: Groenoordhallen]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1941
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Groenoordhallen
... Dr. LaVey asked several of his trusted associates to assist him with the composition of the Satanic Rituals. The Electrical Prelude translation, I think, is the only real mistake in that book.

No, there are errors and falsifications in the intros/texts of the Black Mass, Stifling Air, Tierdrama, EV, Tchort, & Yezidi sections; cf. Chapter #22 of The Church of Satan for details & documentation.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3, Wright]

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#43531 - 10/09/10 03:31 PM The Nazis in the Pentagon [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
Let's review the material thus far. On the one hand we have this Theosophy sect essentially writing itself into the Cult of Cthulhu as early as 1939. Meanwhile, on the other hand, we have Hitler and some of his pals (and plenty of their minions) in this same time-line, reportedly taking a strong interest in the same general line of crap. The Spear of Destiny, the Hammer of Thor, the Ark of the Covenant, the One Ring.

So there's nothing totally precluding the idea that some real Nazis might have read passages from Doreal. Perhaps even out loud, in a German version, to the sound of Wagner! But that's a far cry from being provable, let's call it, slightly less impossible. Let's table the text for a moment, and allow that Dr. LaVey may have plugged it in at that point as suitable filler, similar to the way I might stick something from Flowers of Evil in place of all that Latin sludge in his Messe Noir. We all know that the patter isn't the essence of the trick anyway.

How about the magic part? For those who haven't been inside a mirrored pentagon, the reflections try to complete it into a linear Pentagram. Because of the angles though, as one moves about it's possible to get a further vision of an infinite pentacular matrix, rather like the mile long bar at Disney only in five directions (to the greater glory of the Star Goat.)

So after you read whatever you do read, you climb down into the thing, in full Nazi regalia, and lie down in a swastika position similar to someone trying to be comfortable who really needs to go to the chiropractor. There you are, having multidimensional visions of the self and other and their relationship from many angles. Your light is provided by a Tesla coil and / or some other kind of "live wire" strobe effects. Your skin itches, your hair stands up, the world flickers. If you have the least bit of epilepsy then you are having a life-and-death struggle with your tongue at this point.

Did Hitler or any of his people, ever do stuff like this? Maybe not exactly like this, maybe it was a square tank or a six-sided one, maybe they were naked. But anything? Were there Nazi super-soldiers occasionally returning to the dimensional matrix to use the gift of Tesla to recharge their Aryan awesomeness?

I don't know if I know how to find out. There is so much "Hitler and the Occult" crap on the shelves, and well over 90% of it is clearly fabricated nonsense. And yet, with all that gibberish, I haven't yet found anything that would confirm even the simplest aspect of this trick, the magickal use of mirrors, in Nazi ceremony anywhere. There are a few things from his personal remarks, as reported by others with their own agenda, that do seem pretty evocative. But I would love to see a real source for anything like the climax of the Elektrischen Vorspiele.

On the other hand, If LaVey is the one fabricating, what is his message? Legends are as rooted in truth as facts, they just require a different mode of interpretation. With his evocation of Nazis in the Pentagon, is he saying something about the development of the Cold War? Is he talking specifically about Nixon? Did he subliminally create the Watergate scandal, bringing down a presidency?

Maybe not. But there is so much useless bullshit to sort through.

 Originally Posted By: the pundits
The Pentagon at first denied that Aquino was even in the Army, then reversed itself and stood by Aquino and his top-security clearance. Brussell: "In 1981 he was a reserve attaché to the Defense Intelligence Agency, and a year later a student at the Foreign Services Institute, sponsored by the State Department." In 1981, [Reagan appointee] Daniel Graham – the head of ‘Star Wars,’ the ‘high frontier’ – was head of the Defense Intelligence Agency…."14

Aquino (once a national commander of the Eagle Scouts Honor Society) sneers at the Nazi allegations.

http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.com/2007/08/michael-aquino-revisited-was-he-guilty.html
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#43535 - 10/09/10 07:59 PM Re: The Nazis in the Pentagon [Re: Aklo]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1941
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
... on the other hand, we have Hitler and some of his pals (and plenty of their minions) in this same time-line, reportedly taking a strong interest in the same general line of crap. The Spear of Destiny, the Hammer of Thor ...

You're painting with way too broad a brush. AH was not an occultist in the organizational sense; he was sensitive to & interested in metaphysics only abstractly. Hess was interested in astrology; Himmler in the lore & legends of antiquity. I think I & others have cited appropriate references previously on 600C; you might browse around a bit.

 Quote:
the Ark of the Covenant, the One Ring.

No, the U.S. Army locked the Ark up in a warehouse on the Oakland Army Base, and the One Ring was destroyed back in the Third Age [or was it?].

 Quote:
I don't know if I know how to find out. There is so much "Hitler and the Occult" crap on the shelves, and well over 90% of it is clearly fabricated nonsense.

You can do what I did: go right to the Ahnenerbe-SS' original archæological, magical, and administrative records, contained on microfilm rolls #120-211, Microcopy T-580 (10-135-4) in the National Archives Building of the United States, Washington, D.C. And no, there's no EV or TD therein.

Short of frying your eyes by several days of staring at often-poorly-photographed documents under a microfilm reader, Peter Levenda's Unholy Alliance is a very current & meticulous historical survey.

 Originally Posted By: Aklo
 Originally Posted By: the pundits
The Pentagon at first denied that Aquino was even in the Army, then reversed itself and stood by Aquino and his top-security clearance. Brussell: "In 1981 he was a reserve attaché to the Defense Intelligence Agency, and a year later a student at the Foreign Services Institute, sponsored by the State Department." Aquino (once a national commander of the Eagle Scouts Honor Society) sneers at the Nazi allegations.

Yawn ...
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3, Wright]

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