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#43518 - 10/09/10 03:23 AM About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to satanism
neurosys Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 26
Loc: san diego, CA
Ok, Let me say right away that I am really trying to find out
what you guys think about basically, the current affairs going on in the world, specifically regarding all the allegations of the coming new world order, the speculation of the illuminati, bilderburgs,obama speeches being reversed on you tube,alex jones, and all the craziness, of all of it, one thing kinda bothers me.

The bad guys in this tale are supposedly satanists (I think most would prefer to designate them luciferians tho so as to distinguish from 'laveyan' satanists).

I think 9/11 was definately rigged, I really do, I said it on that very day, although i wasnt terribly serious at the time I simply said 'wouldn't surprise me if our gov did it to advance some agenda'.

I'm kind of trying to establish that I listen and think about all this media, but I am fairly certain I'm not a nutjob. I'm just trying to think rationally and I am not the most trusting person in the world, but I'm not terribly paranoid either. Also, I am a veteran and I really don't trust our gov.

My question is(FINALLY): Is this just how the xtians choose to demonize this group? Obviously when the black helos and thought police roll out, I wont be spared just by saying 'ITS OK IM WITH YOU GUYS' .. and besides would I even want to be? (well yea technically I would prefer to be on the winning side, but you know what I mean)

My real problem I guess is, if those asswipes are luciferians (I am not even gonna get into the wacky Nhiburi looniness) then where would people like us stand with the Illuminatis(assuming its ALL true)

I always considered myself a Laveyan Satanist since I do not believe in literal deities. I agree with most of Lavey's Philosophy and I love his writing.

Ok, so you got all the way here, and I'm still failing to make a concrete point so my question: what do you guys think about all of the conspiracy stuff you have certainly heard AND does the supposed satanic connection bother you? I remember Samhael used to post alot under conspiracy topics. I havent been here in years btw, but I am fond of this board. I only stopped coming cuz my old lady at the time freaked out about it.

Neurosys
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The Emperor Has No Clothes.

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#43524 - 10/09/10 05:11 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to satanism [Re: neurosys]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Most people these days just don't give a shit about conspiracy theories regarding 9/11, xian's rants, or Samuael's insane rants.

I hope that helps.

Morgan
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#43525 - 10/09/10 09:39 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to satanism [Re: Morgan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Conspiracy theories are little more than a way to occupy feeble minds so that they can be controlled by fear. Hell is coming... see your local priest for absolution... the Arabs are coming... see your local priest to get protection from Jesus... the New World Order is coming... etc.

Morgan has it pegged. Most people these days don't give a shit. And I'm here to tell you that if you live long enough, you'll be around for the same stupidity to be come new again, maybe with a more current bugaboo to fear, but the message will be the same... FEAR THEM. Now get back in the herd.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#43527 - 10/09/10 12:46 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to satanism [Re: neurosys]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3114
 Quote:
what do you guys think about all of the conspiracy stuff you have certainly heard AND does the supposed satanic connection bother you?

I heard many conspiracy theories, most of them are a good laugh, others are plain silly and others make me wonder if some people had their brains amputated.
Discussing and debunking conspiracy theories can be a good way to test someones skills for discussion and social/scientific/.. knowledge in general. Most of the time, the one defending the theory would be the one whose information is incorrect or misinterpretated different data (or simply lacks insight and background.. 9/11 theorists tend to have it a lot).

I'm not bothered by the supposed connection. In fact, I like it that way. It keeps the controversy the philosophy brings alive and is an excellent method of seperating the men from the boys.

 Quote:
I think 9/11 was definately rigged, I really do, I said it on that very day, although i wasnt terribly serious at the time I simply said 'wouldn't surprise me if our gov did it to advance some agenda'.

Gut-feeling or have you noticed certain inconsistencies/hints to make that claim? If you have, please share them. The skeptic community demands nothing more (unless it is once again bad science-bad physics stuff).
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#43532 - 10/09/10 04:11 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to satanism [Re: Dimitri]
neurosys Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 26
Loc: san diego, CA
So, would you say that all those architects and engineers for 911 truth are merely fear mongering and that their evidence is 'bad science'?

I make no claim to any special knowledge. But I think, I've gotten my answer, and that's fine. I'm not a theorist by any means, but I'm not close-minded either. If a madman told me the sky was falling, I'd probably at least look up before dismissing his claims.

 Quote:
Gut-feeling or have you noticed certain inconsistencies/hints to make that claim?


The only 'claim' I have made is what I 'think'. I have no proof, I am not personally involved. I'm also not terribly afraid, but I do think the situation would merit discussion among intelligent folks and having that thought in my head, I thought I would ask. Apparently there's nothing to worry about, so I should ignore inconsistencies or I become a radical myself.

I do agree, most people don't seem to give a shit.
Point Taken.
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#43533 - 10/09/10 05:05 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: neurosys]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
There's no big secret about this.



In the 16th century, in the 20th chapter of Il Principe, Niccolo Machiavelli documents some methods by which it is effective to govern a state that has become accustomed to living under its own laws in relative freedom. For convenience sake we can group these into two primary approaches, namely Fortresses and Factions.

By Fortresses we intend to encompass all the methods of the autocratic government, with armed guards everywhere and the use of a monarchy or one-party system in which everyone is expected to toe the line. Good examples of these kinds of regimes can be found in some of the Arab states and in the Union of Fewer and Fewer Soviet Socialist Republics.



On the other hand, in the West and in Weltpolitik, it is common to rely on Factions. By this we mean systems of two parties or more, striving together over side issues and providing a real feeling of competition and free choice but who can be relied on to line up together on any issue that is important to the real rulership.



There are some dangers in this at a national level. As Machiavelli is quick to point to out, it makes for a relatively weak state.

 Originally Posted By: Old Nick
Our forefathers, and those who were reckoned wise, were accustomed to say that it was necessary to hold Pistoia by factions and Pisa by fortresses; and with this idea they fostered quarrels in some of their tributary towns so as to keep possession of them the more easily. This may have been well enough in those times when Italy was in a way balanced, but I do not believe that it can be accepted as a precept for to-day, because I do not believe that factions can ever be of use; rather it is certain that when the enemy comes upon you in divided cities you are quickly lost, because the weakest party will always assist the outside forces and the other will not be able to resist.




But this isn't a problem at the top level, so long as the invaded and the invader are both simply managed as factions themselves. The way to be sure to "win" any significant conflict, is simply to control both sides and exploit them to your own best benefit.



Now if you think that the people who are making a career of bringing these facts to your attention in an inciteful way are somehow on your side, you are sadly mistaken.



Their job is actually discredit the ideas, by rallying obvious crazies around them.



And this is true regardless of which strand of craziness you are coming from.



The moral of this story is



wherever you go



there you are ...

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#43534 - 10/09/10 07:08 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Aklo]
neurosys Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 26
Loc: san diego, CA
 Quote:
Now if you think that the people who are making a career of bringing these facts to your attention in an inciteful way are somehow on your side, you are sadly mistaken.


I would definitely agree with that point. Someone on TV or website telling me the media lies, is still part of the media.

I would add that if one thought world leaders were genuinely concerned with the common good, and not control of the masses, one would also be mistaken. As you pointed out these are quite common and very old political ideas, and certainly nothing new.

Hoo boy, Conspiracy Theory really bad words for me to use, and your right, it does make me an instant looney. A truly devious trapping. About the quote^, thats kind of how I always thought of glen beck, a public rep for the loonies, installed to misrepresent ideas that might otherwise warrant logical investigation into the claims (which are largely stolen from yet other alternative media outlets and made to sound *even* less credible).

I think in the midst of all this eventually, normal, sane and intelligent individuals inevitably begin to notice that not all of the claims are utter nonsense. I've seen this in many forms, like Oath Keepers, for example. They obviously are trying to recognize that something is wrong and refuse (at least temporarily and possibly in vain) to carry out unlawful orders, as all service members and police have sworn.

One I have mentioned already was the Architect and Engineers website. Even if alex jones is a complete shill and whackjob, These people also exist and I can hardly call them all conspiracy theorists.
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The Emperor Has No Clothes.

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#43536 - 10/09/10 09:28 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to satanism [Re: neurosys]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
All practical politics is inherently conspiratorial [unless you're an absolute monarch or dictator]. It's just a question of whose conspiracy theory is most effectively sold, bought, swallowed, and regurgitated.

Jake's comment is also very much to the point: Many people just don't care, particularly if they perceive themselves powerless to change the result of a particular "sale".

On 9/11 I was sitting in a dentist's chair getting my teeth whitened & watching the TV, when WTC1 & WTC2 dropped instantly & neatly into their footprints. Then, presumably just for the hell of it, WTC7 as well. "OK, demolition," I thought & still think. Did it make any difference in subsequent US policy and public obedience? Nope.

Have some fun here, and here's some great reading [Peter McAlpine was an original C/S member and an extremely bright fellow & nice guy.]

I suppose I am one of the Illuminati since there are currently 2,390,000 Google hits saying I am.
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#43541 - 10/10/10 06:32 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to satanism [Re: neurosys]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3114
 Quote:

So, would you say that all those architects and engineers for 911 truth are merely fear mongering and that their evidence is 'bad science'?

Quite so..
In fact the site which gives these numbers is inaccurate and full of inconsistencies from top to bottom. I even managed to raise that number by acting as if I was an engineer and supported the whole damn thing. Any person can claim to be one and thus give the impression there are 1000+ architects and engineers raising their doubt on that matter. Another point is the fact there are architects and engineers who are unemployed for having made mistakes in their constructions and raise their voice about this particular topic. And I prefer to not trust an architect/engineer who can't do his job right.

I'm a member of the skeptic community, I'm active on the JREF. There are quite a few conspiracy theorists walking by, spewing their crap and waiting for an answer. During the 10 years after the events we managed to gather quite some information to debunk such theories. Even the 9/11 website you quote/get your information from has been analyzed over and over again and we managed to pull out all the inconsistencies and "bad science". Link: Debunking 9/11

 Quote:
If a madman told me the sky was falling, I'd probably at least look up before dismissing his claims.

I think we have a case of you being overwhelmed by wrong information and being bullshitted loud enough against to take it for granted. Or you just failed to find the right sources for skeptical thinking. Anyhow, the link is given. Do as you please but be aware for continuing this discussion with me to be prepared to have your views be shaken very thoroughly. (Or as I like to say it: a raise of entropy).

@ nutjob with fotos of pressumed signs of the devil by IP:
You make the same sign everyday with your hand when pointing something out. I don't know about you, but I unconsciously make the same gesture when explaining things. Perhaps you should observe people a little bit more and better. Even my teachers and fellow students tend to do this.


Edited by Dimitri (10/10/10 06:38 AM)
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#43549 - 10/10/10 09:11 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Aklo]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
There's no big secret about this.



In the 16th century, in the 20th chapter of Il Principe, Niccolo Machiavelli documents some methods by which it is effective to govern a state that has become accustomed to living under its own laws in relative freedom. For convenience sake we can group these into two primary approaches, namely Fortresses and Factions.

By Fortresses we intend to encompass all the methods of the autocratic government, with armed guards everywhere and the use of a monarchy or one-party system in which everyone is expected to toe the line. Good examples of these kinds of regimes can be found in some of the Arab states and in the Union of Fewer and Fewer Soviet Socialist Republics.



On the other hand, in the West and in Weltpolitik, it is common to rely on Factions. By this we mean systems of two parties or more, striving together over side issues and providing a real feeling of competition and free choice but who can be relied on to line up together on any issue that is important to the real rulership.



There are some dangers in this at a national level. As Machiavelli is quick to point to out, it makes for a relatively weak state.

 Originally Posted By: Old Nick
Our forefathers, and those who were reckoned wise, were accustomed to say that it was necessary to hold Pistoia by factions and Pisa by fortresses; and with this idea they fostered quarrels in some of their tributary towns so as to keep possession of them the more easily. This may have been well enough in those times when Italy was in a way balanced, but I do not believe that it can be accepted as a precept for to-day, because I do not believe that factions can ever be of use; rather it is certain that when the enemy comes upon you in divided cities you are quickly lost, because the weakest party will always assist the outside forces and the other will not be able to resist.




But this isn't a problem at the top level, so long as the invaded and the invader are both simply managed as factions themselves. The way to be sure to "win" any significant conflict, is simply to control both sides and exploit them to your own best benefit.



Now if you think that the people who are making a career of bringing these facts to your attention in an inciteful way are somehow on your side, you are sadly mistaken.



Their job is actually discredit the ideas, by rallying obvious crazies around them.



And this is true regardless of which strand of craziness you are coming from.



The moral of this story is



wherever you go



there you are ...



Lay down your swords to the gods rock 'n' roll!!! \m/ Sorry, I had to.

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#43553 - 10/11/10 01:12 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Lamar]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
I do believe the Government wants us to be the sheep that folow in line. All I can say is don't be that and get the facts and base your decision on what yu know. That's the best you can do. All the rest is BULLSHIT!!!!!

Am I gong to have to delete every single one of your vague, generalist posts you've made thus far? A 15 year old could have written something more astute than what you posted.


Edited by Nemesis (10/11/10 07:43 AM)
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Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.

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#43570 - 10/12/10 02:00 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: manofsteel]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
Good thing I don't give a shit about your opinion!!!
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Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.

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#43571 - 10/12/10 02:34 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: manofsteel]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: manofsteel
Good thing I don't give a shit about your opinion!!!


A word to the wise.

When someone whose name is in green or who tags your posts in green felt the need to contact of correct you, it's not a good idea to give them crap. There lies the path to the way of the DoDos.

Just a friendly piece of advice... must be getting soft in my old age.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#43572 - 10/12/10 03:14 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Jake999]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Do not cast your pearls before swine, Jake. \:D

manofsteel is obviously a moron who is probably not even worthy of lurking here. I sincerely hope that such blatant disrespect for one of our beloved Moderators is met with a swift kick back out the way it came.

"You can't fix stupid."
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#43574 - 10/12/10 07:25 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: manofsteel]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Good thing I don't give a shit whether your account gets suspended or not!

Look, usually I'm not the type to throw my moderator weight around. I prefer to take someone aside, explain to them that their behavior in the office isn't cutting the mustard, and give them a chance to get their act together.

This is me taking you aside and giving you a hint. If you can't take a hint, then clean off your desk and be on your way. If not, then I'll have to do it for you, and I won't be gentle with your ceramic Troll dolls and C3PO collectors plates.
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Nothing is sacred.

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