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#53347 - 04/23/11 10:29 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I can observe that you are dedicated to self development yet individuality can sometimes let us to believe that we oughtn't have anything in common with anyone else. I'm not an expert and I do not consider myself wholly enlightened nor mysteriously attuned with the cosmos. My take on Luciferianism is not so different to ideas within psychology, although it will be regarded as shadow work with gnostic terminology I have got to keep myself entertained ha.

The terminology may differ. Annihilatory apotheosis, endarkenment, these may not sound like positive things but if one would try and understand the contextual reversal of terms and what comes of the process which I will attempt describe.

I can see that humans are prone to compartmentalisation yet we are all humans so we are bound to exhibit and harbour many of the same qualities, especially if we are among the adaptable and the environment we live in is very much the same, as is for lots of us in urban areas. By affirming that we are "alike" insofar as working towards common ideals, we will be able to know ourselves as to know oneself is to study oneself in the presence of others, if you want to create a "self" which is isolate from others this can be appealing to some occultists who may live a cocooned and boring existence, but whoever of us looks into the dark waters of the the unconsciousness will still see the face we never show to the world which is covered with the persona. The shadow is a dynamic part of our personality and therefore wants to thrive in some form. It cannot be argued out of existence. Still, one oughtn't confuse concepts and assume that everything underneath the persona is worth embodying or contrastingly are not honest with yourself, it is possible to be cultivating an illusion (the demiurge ego). One can grow from experience and mature as a person to truly appreciate freedom and the mundane (not ONA context). Instead of focusing on and exaggerating out inner demons and keep reliving them, we can change the memories or 'demons' and see them as comical and absurd. People often dismiss the power of laughter because we are taught not to laugh at all manner of things, in fact laughter is aggressive by nature and yet another human faculty that is repressed by Christianised society "oh my god that's not funny you cruel person!" one may thicken one's shadow by dancing with other people's demons (demonology) bringing trouble and danger onto oneself which will make one stronger "what does not kill makes strong". Many people who shine a compensatory ego will be reduced to a devastating worthlessness upon facing the shadow cast by this ego, and yet for others we regard the commonly held as "negative" aspects (violent propensity, malevolence, fears) as "positive" aspects to be nourished and mixed with the ego, of impurism, of mixing with the morbid shadow dissolving the illusions of black and white egoistic thinking and synthesising, merging these poles into a "grey evil". As a pure black evil manifesting uncontrolled on the physical plane would annihilate existence itself (abstractionless impulses to murder, abtractionless emanations of suicidal nihilism etc) we instead blend the blackest aspects of our nature into the ego with deliberation, the shadow permeates the ego and nourishes it positively annihilating the brightly shining self denial of the foolish ego (the demiurge) which would cast a negative shadow with it's negative false light, instead the will to power is turned inward to issue oneself commands to enter the shadow for we as individuals have the power to look into the light of the world and see darkness there. This is not the same as creating a negative shadow as if one turns away from the light one will only see darkness, instead to look into the cold light of day and see darkness there, and to look at ones shadow in the cold light of day and see what shines there dissolving the compartmentalization we have cultivated. He who is enlightened by developing the thickest shadow, at the darkest night of the soul, does only that of it's own luminescence, shine brightest.
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#53348 - 04/23/11 10:55 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Hegesias]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Hegesias

OF DYADS
Yes, I agree one is unable to achieve apotheosis on our own, a dyad, others are required, just as a match needs something to strike against to produce a flame. However, the dyad and self must be in harmony otherwise no flame is produced and one or the other suffers harm. In the context of this ongoing Satanism-Luciferian argument I see only harmony is possible when the Satanists can see Luciferianism as a unique and integrated path in its own right, otherwise this conflict goes on of no benefit to no side.

OF SHADOWS
You may be aware that each Luciferian will have their unique interpretation on various ideas. Of this shadow I have my own, this is a Noctifer, "Dark Bearer", one that is like Zeus and a hater of mankind, that shadow that exists in all of us that would deny our potentialiality if allowed. So thankfully the Lucifer inside us helps us to reach apotheosis against the desire of the Noctifer aspect to keep us unfullfilled and in darkness. I see in this debate I am having with some Satanists such a Noctifer that would deny Luciferians the right to walk in the light a unique and empowering path. Why would we wish to live in the shadows that Satanism does when we can walk in the light. Why are some so determined that we must be in shadow by being caged in the restrictions of the paradigms of Satanists who wish to chain us to their worldview?
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Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#53349 - 04/23/11 11:20 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
@ Diavolo
All you can see from is from a Satanist point of view, so you attempt to project Satanic ideas upon Luciferianism, but then it defies your attempts as it has no limits or boundaries (there are two Luciferian axioms for you).

Luciferianism is part of the Left Hand Path, as is your Satanism, it is not part of Satanism, and never will be.


As ever Mabon, you dodge the content and stick to vague nonsense. What you do is take a glass of wine, add some ice to it and then declare it to be an exquisite drink while in reality you're drinking watered down wine.

Now mind you, I truly don't care that there are Luciferians but seeing how you even fool yourself into thinking you created something unique, makes me wonder how much it all is worth in reality. All I see is hot air.

If I'm wrong; please bring some "luciferian" content to the table and show me, instead of always fleeing this request in nonsense.

D.

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#53350 - 04/23/11 11:41 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo
I am only reacting and replying to what is being presented in front of me. I am unlikely to reveal much unless you ask the questions. Most of what I am having to reply to is just vague statements and lacks anything concrete to answer to. If you want to see "Luciferian content" then ask the questions.
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Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#53351 - 04/23/11 11:59 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Ok, an easy one; what parts of luciferianism did not originate in Satanism and what besides the label is different?

D.

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#53352 - 04/23/11 12:46 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3883
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You know the answer is 'nothing' D so I can only assume this question is rhetorical :P

If there is anything to it, it is certainly well hidden.
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#53353 - 04/23/11 12:54 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Ok, an easy one; what parts of luciferianism did not originate in Satanism and what besides the label is different?

D.


With respect those are hard questions. These are two questions.

1. "what parts of luciferianism did not originate in satanism"
Where did Satanism start? What is Satanism? Are we dealing with sources in Sumerian times? Are we dealing with Hebrew, Islamic or Christian sources? Are we looking from the Theistic Satanist point of view? Or are we looking from that of Lavey? And which definitions of Satanism are being applied, since there are many "churches" and interpretations. As to Luciferianism, it branches out to a multiple outlets and comes in from multiple sources. Unless Satanism and Luciferianism is fixed with clear sources then no answer is possible to this question.

2. besides the label is different?
Lets compare axioms.
1. "to walk the path of apotheosis".

Do Satanists walk such a path as Luciferians do?

Lets deal with the above axiom first of all and we will then move onto others.
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#53354 - 04/23/11 01:13 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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I don't really see them as hard questions.

You don't provide much of an argument for the difference. Lucifer is based upon the Satanic Satan since there is nothing which leads to a similar archetype. Sure Satan is a romantic interpretation compiled from several sources, no disagreement there, but Lucifer is the same Satan having changed name and then acting as if he doesn't know the other fellow.

To walk the path to apotheosis surely sounds nice and dandy but again, purely borrowed from the satanic “you are god” and “driven towards improving”. Describing it fancily doesn't hide the source.

Next.

D.

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#53355 - 04/23/11 02:07 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

MYTHOS
Lucifer is equivalent to Prometheus. Your Satan comes either from the Christian-Hebrew version, the Book of Job, or out of the mind of Anton LaVey, none that reflect Prometheus.

LUCIFERIAN AXIOM 1
"Walking the path to apotheosis".

You have given two apparent Satanic axioms that fail to match the Luciferian Axiom 1.

"You are god"
Not to the Luciferian who is walking the path to become a god, they do not consider themselves gods, but people working to become a god. You apparently claim the Satanist has already crossed the finish line of being a god, however the Luciferian is still in the race.

"driven towards improving"
To what end? The Luciferian Axion 1 states the end purpose of the Luciferian journey, yet the Satanist merely sees their end of the path as mere improvement.


Edited by mabon2010 (04/23/11 02:08 PM)
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#53356 - 04/23/11 02:29 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Let's be honest, Lucifer, like Satan is borrowed from the Bible with the sole difference that Lucifer never referred to the Devil. That you guys are more aligned with the Promethean archetype I've pointed out before and as such, I find it quite strange you don't call yourselves Prometheans.

Prometheus however is a completely different archetype compared to Satan and when looked at from the modern perspective, a white-light archetype.

Let's cut the crap with this Luciferian axiom stuff, you made that up recently in an attempt to build an own philosophy. In itself, that's good but it takes more than rephrasing to create something unique.

Satanists don't consider themselves gods in the literal or endgame sense, as anyone having some insight would notice, and when having this knowledge, one directly sees you're trying to argue your difference by first turning a similarity into a “different” Satanism to compare with. It's not really what I consider a solid defense. So either you don't know Satanism too well and as such, evidently, don't see the similarity or you see it all too well and this is the only escape to save face.

D.

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#53357 - 04/23/11 02:56 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

MYTHOS
You Satanists, unless you add to the archetype of Satan, rely upon the Christian-Hebrew Book of Job for your Satan, an angel in the direct employ of the Christian-Hebrew god. Some Satanists add to this by taking an interpretation of Anton LaVey (circa 1960's) where he associates the Satan with man rather than angels.

As to Luciferians, we refer to Book of Isaiah but have more room for interpretation as follows:
1. A King of Babylon.
2. Latin translation : "Light Bearer".
3. Hebrew translation : "shining one, son of the dawn".
4. Planet Venus goddess of love.
5. A consort, and their twin, to a moon goddess.
6. A play on the name of the King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar II and the connection via his name to Nabu god of Wisdom.

From all these bits of information associations can be built up to the likes of Prometheus to Lugh to the Neo-Platonist Demiurge.

Satanists have to work hard to get their archetype from an angel enslaved to the authority of a Christian god to something that they claim to be themselves (a god).

AXIOMS
Luciferianism is a Left Hand Path philosophy, the Luciferian Axiom 1 is a self evident truth which should not be a surprise to anyone who is a Luciferian: "walking a path to apotheosis".

You said:
 Quote:
"Satanists don't consider themselves gods in the literal or endgame sense.."

So your claim for Satanism “you are god” is untrue?

I have presented you with a Luciferian Axiom, so is it true or not that Satanists follow such an axiom? If not, then you have one difference between my path and that of Satanism.
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Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#53358 - 04/23/11 03:02 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3883
Loc: Vancouver, Canada


 Originally Posted By: mabon
1. "to walk the path of apotheosis".


This seems to be your favourite distinction. Do you not realize this is what LaVey was talking about in the essay 'the god you save might be yourself' from TSB? Your one example of a luciferian axiom that is not of Satanism, comes straight from TSB?

The word clueless comes to mind. Got anything else?
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#53360 - 04/23/11 03:11 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Dan_Dread]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread


 Originally Posted By: mabon
1. "to walk the path of apotheosis".


This seems to be your favourite distinction. Do you not realize this is what LaVey was talking about in the essay 'the god you save might be yourself' from TSB? Your one example of a luciferian axiom that is not of Satanism, comes straight from TSB?



Actually terms like Luciferianism, apotheosis, and Left Hand Path pre-date Anton LaVey and TSB, so I would suggest it was the reverse that he borrowed such ideas from Luciferianism.
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Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#53361 - 04/23/11 03:13 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3883
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
LOL. Site some sources, or gtfo of here.

You are spiralling further and further from reality...

Everything you present comes STRAIGHT from LaVey. EVERYTHING.

You are not fooling anyone.
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#53362 - 04/23/11 03:15 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
Satanists have to work hard to get their archetype from an angel enslaved to the authority of a Christian god to something that they claim to be themselves (a god).


You do realize I hope Prometheus was part of a conquered "race" by other gods, and for having pity and bringing "fire" to men, he became enslaved?

Me thinks to see a "pot and kettle" argument at this level.

D.

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